How much do you make in a year as a psychiatrist?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

How much do you make in a year as a psychiatrist (total comp including call and bonuses)

  • <100k

  • 100-200k

  • 200-300k

  • 300-400k

  • 400-500k

  • 500-600k

  • 600-700k

  • 700k+


Results are only viewable after voting.
My private practice is 50% in person and 50% telehealth although in the end, I probably do more admin work at home than in my physical office. I would try to justify the miles or the car as a business deduction, but I did the analysis on it and it would save me a whopping $500-600 per year in mileage deduction with a paid off car. Not worth my time tracking the miles and figuring this out. Now, if I wanted to do a section 179 and deduct the car payments, it would be much more worth it although increasingly less so as this is being phased out.

The bigger business deductions are the 199A deduction, small business pension plans (defined benefit cash balance plan), incorporation if you make enough money and want to spend the time learning how to do that (I posted about this in another thread), a home office, the Augusta rule, going out for networking meals with therapists and other psychiatrists, and business travel for CME. Outside of that, pre-tax deductions on both the employee and employer will take you far. If you really want to get advanced and deduct investments as part of your active wages, you can look into short-term vacation rentals (less than 7 days) and doing a cost segregation analysis for forced depreciation or becoming a real estate professional status if you work part time in PP or if your spouse can do it.
Yes this year is the year to get a 6000# vehicle if you are >50% of mileage as business mileage. You get the bonus depreciation of $8k that ends after 2024 +section 179. Lets you depreciate about 50k of the car in year 1 (at whatever % is business mileage).

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Southeast. Inpatient. 5 days a week + 1 weekend/month. 4 weeks vacation + 1 week CME ($4500/CME). Salary + wRVU bonus. Commonly see between 11-14 pts/day, some weeks more if a colleague is on vacation but never usually more than 16-17/day even on the worst days. Weekends 18-23 pts depending on census. Being "on call" during a weekday is taking home call until early evening.

Before-tax 550-600k. Only leaving this job if they fire me.
W2?
 
Desirable metro? ATL?
It is about an hour outside of a "desirable" metro but my family loves the area so we don't mind. Have made a lot of hospital friends and parent
friends from kids school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
One w2 comes out to 420-500k inpatient last year was 600 but they are cutting down the extra they had me doing which is unfortunate but that’s why I take what I can get when I can. You never know when the C suite is gonna change it up. Then some extra 1099 income from a second hospital
 
One w2 comes out to 420-500k inpatient last year was 600 but they are cutting down the extra they had me doing which is unfortunate but that’s why I take what I can get when I can. You never know when the C suite is gonna change it up. Then some extra 1099 income from a second hospital
Make what u can now and invest heavy. Future will be drones of nps under 1 md director model.
Expect full autonomy in most states by end of decade.

Of course i hope i am way off but i am prepared to not look back and say jeesh i should have worked more. Place i work hasnt hired any md in 7 years and only plans to grow nps.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Make what u can now and invest heavy. Future will be drones of nps under 1 md director model.
Expect full autonomy in most states by end of decade.

Of course i hope i am way off but i am prepared to not look back and say jeesh i should have worked more. Place i work hasnt hired any md in 7 years and only plans to grow nps.

I'm not an advocate of FPA for mid-levels, but I doubt it will be happening that quickly. When I started med school 10 years ago there were 23 or 24 states with FPA for NPs. Today there are 27. Yes, we are slowly moving in that direction, but unless there are major changes at the federal level there are many states that are far from offering FPA. I'm also in an FPA state and have no concerns about my income given the dire need for psychiatric services.

I'm all for investing heavily early to build a nest egg and establishing FI ASAP. Some places are bad in terms of mid-level encroachment, but this is not uniform and imo not a reason to overwork now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm not an advocate of FPA for mid-levels, but I doubt it will be happening that quickly. When I started med school 10 years ago there were 23 or 24 states with FPA for NPs. Today there are 27. Yes, we are slowly moving in that direction, but unless there are major changes at the federal level there are many states that are far from offering FPA. I'm also in an FPA state and have no concerns about my income given the dire need for psychiatric services.

I'm all for investing heavily early to build a nest egg and establishing FI ASAP. Some places are bad in terms of mid-level encroachment, but this is not uniform and imo not a reason to overwork now.

Agree. Like i said maybe im a bit more paranoid about it and that helps motivate me to work a touch more now. Again 8-6 m-f most from home is very sustainable for me with no wknds, nights, holidays. Others might not have that option unless they really look a bit.
 
The place I'm hoping to get a job is one of my current sites in CAP fellowship. 371k/year altogether with weekend call once per month. Call is by phone unless there's restraints needing signed off or weekend admissions but they're brief. Locked residential setting for adolescents, 28 patient encounters per week. Only see kids and write 1 note per week. So ~6 kids per day to round on + parent phone calls. It's a very chill gig.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 2 users
Members don't see this ad :)
The place I'm hoping to get a job is one of my current sites in CAP fellowship. 371k/year altogether with weekend call once per month. Call is by phone unless there's restraints needing signed off or weekend admissions but they're brief. Locked residential setting for adolescents, 28 patient encounters per week. Only see kids and write 1 note per week. So ~6 kids per day to round on + parent phone calls. It's a very chill gig.
Sounds super chill unless you don't have that interdisciplinary support staff to really hold the kids in crisis and the parents who will want high levels of communication...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sounds super chill unless you don't have that interdisciplinary support staff to really hold the kids in crisis and the parents who will want high levels of communication...
Since I'm here already I can say the the support staff is good. Restraints here are down significantly since they closed the ASD unit and staff is much happier. Parents can be a bit demanding but a lot of the more time intensive conversations are taken on by the therapists and addressed during family therapy sessions. We turf most of the difficult stuff to them since their caseload per week is like 6-8 kids.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Make what u can now and invest heavy. Future will be drones of nps under 1 md director model.
Expect full autonomy in most states by end of decade.

Of course i hope i am way off but i am prepared to not look back and say jeesh i should have worked more. Place i work hasnt hired any md in 7 years and only plans to grow nps.
Where I work NPs make 85% what I do and they do <<85% what I do.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 users
I'm not exactly sure how to answer regarding pay + benefits. Do I add in the 7 weeks of PTO?, What about the paid malpractice and other insurances, my employer's payments into our pension?
I consider PTO factored into my regular wage, as I'm paid $265,000 base split up every 2 weeks whether I'm working or not.
 
Make what u can now and invest heavy. Future will be drones of nps under 1 md director model.
Expect full autonomy in most states by end of decade.

Of course i hope i am way off but i am prepared to not look back and say jeesh i should have worked more. Place i work hasnt hired any md in 7 years and only plans to grow nps.
Plan for the worst hope for the best. Build that nest egg asap by working damn hard now so that way if the future isn’t what you want you can opt out without stress. Maybe it’s the wrong outcome but no matter what you get the opportunity to take advantage of compounding growth early which gives your investments more time to grow. Then you have the freedom of choice
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I'm not exactly sure how to answer regarding pay + benefits. Do I add in the 7 weeks of PTO?, What about the paid malpractice and other insurances, my employer's payments into our pension?
Total comp is going to include the employer share of those other insurances--as the cost share and quality of those insurances can vary--but that's hard to perfectly estimate. Additional employer funds into retirement accounts is also included.

Any PTO over 4 weeks is worth noting. Easiest to just say total comp + amount of time off. If I had to come up with a dollar value for above-average PTO, it'd be figuring out how much I "would" earn at my effective hourly rate if I had to work those 3 weeks. (e.g. if you're salary then 300k/45 weeks*48 weeks)
 
Work RVU production and see folks every 20 min and 40 min new. Outpatient . fairly easy to 400 K or higher where in Southeast. I do it in 36 hours per week. Take other 4 hours off Friday afternoon as admin time.
what is the $/wrvu
 
what is the $/wrvu
54 straight and then 5 for quality metrics by department as a whole. Only did not reach metrics in 2020 I was told. I was not there for COVID. So basically 59. Have seen higher in my area but much worse work environment. So far, so good.
 
54 straight and then 5 for quality metrics by department as a whole. Only did not reach metrics in 2020 I was told. I was not there for COVID. So basically 59. Have seen higher in my area but much worse work environment. So far, so good.

what is a 99214 in rvu nowadays. like 1.9?
 
1.92 and add 90833 1.5 = 3.4 My primary folks call it a cheat code haha

lol um why? If they can see 2x 15 minute 99214s in the same time you see 1x 30 minute 99214 + 90833 they make more RVUs. Someone coming in for stable HTN and stable MDD is a 99214 and is probably like a 10 minute visit.

Hell even if they see a 99213 + 99214 in a half hour that’s still 3.2 RVUs.

That’s why the whole psychology thing in the other thread about being pill pushers is hilarious, if I really wanted to be a pill pusher I’d just line up the 15min appointments back to back and make more money that way rather than even trying to do a little therapy with 30min follow-ups and adding 90833s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
lol um why? If they can see 2x 15 minute 99214s in the same time you see 1x 30 minute 99214 + 90833 they make more RVUs. Someone coming in for stable HTN and stable MDD is a 99214 and is probably like a 10 minute visit.

Hell even if they see a 99213 + 99214 in a half hour that’s still 3.2 RVUs.

That’s why the whole psychology thing in the other thread about being pill pushers is hilarious, if I really wanted to be a pill pusher I’d just line up the 15min appointments back to back and make more money that way rather than even trying to do a little therapy with 30min follow-ups and adding 90833s.
I feel similar on the inpatient side. Hospital medicine, ICU, cards, nephro, etc can cruise through patients. 5 minutes maybe face to face, mostly decide on management based on test results. Not that these are easy jobs, but they can get through patients much faster than a psychiatrist doing a good job. Therapy codes on inpatient make complete sense to me if the work is being done.
 
lol um why? If they can see 2x 15 minute 99214s in the same time you see 1x 30 minute 99214 + 90833 they make more RVUs. Someone coming in for stable HTN and stable MDD is a 99214 and is probably like a 10 minute visit.

Hell even if they see a 99213 + 99214 in a half hour that’s still 3.2 RVUs.

That’s why the whole psychology thing in the other thread about being pill pushers is hilarious, if I really wanted to be a pill pusher I’d just line up the 15min appointments back to back and make more money that way rather than even trying to do a little therapy with 30min follow-ups and adding 90833s.

Yea, but we can do 20 minutes follow-ups and bill the 90833 f/up each time per Carlat and make 10.47 wRVUs per hour to their measley 7.68 wRVUs for doing 4x 99214. That's 83.76 wRVUs per day in an 8 hour day to their 61.44. Checkmate FM scrubs. /sarcasm
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
CMHC with 22 years time here as medical director working 40hr/week, all outpatient. $280k salary, 7 weeks PTO, plus employer pays into state retirement 50% of my salary (my state was horribly underfunded for years). I get 50% of highest pay until I die after 27 years total time here. If adding salary plus retirement= $420/yr.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
CMHC with 22 years time here as medical director working 40hr/week, all outpatient. $280k salary, 7 weeks PTO, plus employer pays into state retirement 50% of my salary (my state was horribly underfunded for years). I get 50% of highest pay until I die after 27 years total time here. If adding salary plus retirement= $420/yr.

That sounds pretty bad for right now, but d*** those golden handcuffs look shiny. Practically diamond studded...
 
CMHC with 22 years time here as medical director working 40hr/week, all outpatient. $280k salary, 7 weeks PTO, plus employer pays into state retirement 50% of my salary (my state was horribly underfunded for years). I get 50% of highest pay until I die after 27 years total time here. If adding salary plus retirement= $420/yr.

I assume it pays a smaller % for different year increments.

27 years is a long time, and a very bad deal. Compounded interest with the difference shunted to mutual funds would way over perform this. You are funding other people with that $ in a pension.

That 50% of highest pay is probably closer to you earning $325k in today’s money. Invest that $45k over 27 years and you will have enough to generate $200k/year in retirement no problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
CMHC with 22 years time here as medical director working 40hr/week, all outpatient. $280k salary, 7 weeks PTO, plus employer pays into state retirement 50% of my salary (my state was horribly underfunded for years). I get 50% of highest pay until I die after 27 years total time here. If adding salary plus retirement= $420/yr.
Is that $140k additional into retirement accounts plus a separate 50% pension at 27 years or are you referring to the same pot/payment/pension with those two 50% figures?
 
I assume it pays a smaller % for different year increments.

27 years is a long time, and a very bad deal. Compounded interest with the difference shunted to mutual funds would way over perform this. You are funding other people with that $ in a pension.

That 50% of highest pay is probably closer to you earning $325k in today’s money. Invest that $45k over 27 years and you will have enough to generate $200k/year in retirement no problem.
Just calculated using 10-11% return, which is the average return for the S&P500 in the past 40 yrs. It's a whooping ~6 mil.

On paper, it's a nice gig without doing the calculation. I would have jumped on a job like that 10 yrs ago when I did not know anything about investment

That is why when people talk about these VA jobs with CRAZY benefits that pay 225-240k/yr, I told them thank you. I can invest the 100k more I make in the private sector...
 
Just calculated using 10-11% return, which is the average return for the S&P500 in the past 40 yrs. It's a whooping ~6 mil.

On paper, it's a nice gig without doing the calculation. I would have jumped on a job like that 10 yrs ago when I did not know anything about investment

That is why when people talk about these VA jobs with CRAZY benefits that pay 225-240k/yr, I told them thank you. I can invest the 100k more I make in the private sector...

Right and if you can do a solo 401k and sock away 69K/year, that jumps up even faster plus you get to hold on to your principle

So for instance even if we assume no change in solo 401k contribution limits (which won't be the case)
69K/year x 25 years x 8% conservative return = $5,516,854
4% withdrawal rate is $220,674 which safely keeps your principle intact and probably actually growing still

You'd actually have to hold onto it for longer than that if you start contributing in your early 30s because you can't withdraw until 59.5...which would mean it grows even more
 
Right and if you can do a solo 401k and sock away 69K/year, that jumps up even faster plus you get to hold on to your principle

So for instance even if we assume no change in solo 401k contribution limits (which won't be the case)
69K/year x 25 years x 8% conservative return = $5,516,854
4% withdrawal rate is $220,674 which safely keeps your principle intact and probably actually growing still

You'd actually have to hold onto it for longer than that if you start contributing in your early 30s because you can't withdraw until 59.5...which would mean it grows even more
The other thing is that I am not sure you can leave a pension to your spouse/kids/grandkids when you die. It's not worth it "losing" 50-70k/yr because you will have a pension after a number of working years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
On pace to make 925k this year.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 8 users
Make what u can now and invest heavy. Future will be drones of nps under 1 md director model.
Expect full autonomy in most states by end of decade.

Of course i hope i am way off but i am prepared to not look back and say jeesh i should have worked more. Place i work hasnt hired any md in 7 years and only plans to grow nps.
How do you rationalize the fact MD pay is higher in states that have independent np practice rights?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
How do you rationalize the fact MD pay is higher in states that have independent np practice rights?

States with full practice are very desperate for psychiatrist, therefore even with full practice, they make more for now. I also get puzzled by the situation, but in my institution, when an MD leave they are hiring 2 NPs.
 
great. you'll need it for how much housing is over there. 2m for a starter house?
This is such a bizarre way to look at housing costs for people who can afford it. So say Jbomba buys a 2mill house, it's not like that money just disappears. When he/she goes to move in the future, they have an asset that they can then sell. While all real estate has ups/downs, there has been a consistent and generally steady increase in the US for well north of a century. It's not like residential real estate in any HCoL areas are hurting as wealth creation continues to intensity in metro areas.

Yes 925k in Cali is not the same as 925k in Arkansas, but it's way more than 325k in Arkansas.
 
The other thing is that I am not sure you can leave a pension to your spouse/kids/grandkids when you die. It's not worth it "losing" 50-70k/yr because you will have a pension after a number of working years.
Usually you can pass it to your spouse depending on when you die but typically not children/grandchildren.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes 925k in Cali is not the same as 925k in Arkansas, but it's way more than 325k in Arkansas.
$925k in Los Angeles is equivalent to $380,468 in Little Rock, Arkansas according to bankrate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
$925k in Los Angeles is equivalent to $380,468 in Little Rock, Arkansas according to bankrate.
Those CoL breakdowns are actually exactly what I'm pointing to, they just don't hold up at the higher salaries. Outside of state income tax, things like utilities/gasoline/grocery costs just do not scale at incomes of near 1 million year. They are a good approximation for people with average salaries but I would not rely on them at all for most doctors, particularly high earning ones. You would actually need to get some data on what your take home salary is and that add on the expected extra CoL.

Example
$925k CA is 814k after 12% state income tax vs $380k in a state without state income tax.
Add-on 30k for extra utilites/gas/grocery and other necessary costs as a rough approximation 784k vcs 380k
Add on 200k/year for extra housing expense (you'll get a good chunk back when you sell, but will drop your cashflow)
You are still left 200k up after generous allotments for extra day to day prices and housing and state income tax
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Those CoL breakdowns are actually exactly what I'm pointing to, they just don't hold up at the higher salaries. Outside of state income tax, things like utilities/gasoline/grocery costs just do not scale at incomes of near 1 million year. They are a good approximation for people with average salaries but I would not rely on them at all for most doctors, particularly high earning ones. You would actually need to get some data on what your take home salary is and that add on the expected extra CoL.

Example
$925k CA is 814k after 12% state income tax vs $380k in a state without state income tax.
Add-on 30k for extra utilites/gas/grocery and other necessary costs as a rough approximation 784k vcs 380k
Add on 200k/year for extra housing expense (you'll get a good chunk back when you sell, but will drop your cashflow)
You are still left 200k up after generous allotments for extra day to day prices and housing and state income tax

The only issues here is that poster does multiple side gigs to get that income and your comparing it to 1 FTE job in arkansas. Yes, ,those same roles would likely pay less in arkansas but still probably 650-700 ish for equal work.
 
great. you'll need it for how much housing is over there. 2m for a starter house?

2M would get you a pretty nice house for a family (1-2 kids). Wouldn’t need to be starter. I will say probably need 1.5 M HHI to comfortably raise a family in Southern California though. That will get you a decent house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, travel without penny pinching, date nights, good retirement contribution, etc.
 
2M would get you a pretty nice house for a family (1-2 kids). Wouldn’t need to be starter. I will say probably need 1.5 M HHI to comfortably raise a family in Southern California though. That will get you a decent house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, travel without penny pinching, date nights, good retirement contribution, etc.

Sure, but you can get that same house for a fraction in many other places. Basic comparison from Nerd Wallet shows median 3bed 2bath in Los
Angeles to be $1.25 mil and same property in Little Rock (most expensive in AK) is only $440k. At a 6.5% mortgage rate (current is >7.5% for 30 yr fixed) that's a monthly difference of $5,200/mo ($8k in LA vs $2.8k in Little Rock) just in mortgage, doesn't even account for other escrow costs, maintenance/updates, or other CoL. That's over $60k/yr difference that could be invested. After 30 years you've got over $5 mil on $1.8mil in principal at 6% returns.

IRL example, I've talked about my house enough, but our mortgage is around $550k in a "large" midwest metro. Per Zillow, comparable houses in LA area right now (4-5k sq ft, 4-5 bed and bath) range from a low of $2.4 mil in Porter Ranch, CA (I know nothing about this place) to ~$7 mil. At 6.5% mortgage rate, you'd pay $3,500/mo where I'm at vs $15k-44k/mo in LA. That's just the difference in mortgage payments. Even at the low end that's a difference of $138k/yr and at the high end you pay less in a year here than you would in a month there ($42k vs $44k). Invest the $138k and you have $11.2mil on $4.1mil in principal at 30 years at 6% interest. At 8% interest you've got $16.2 mil.

You can look at the house as an investment, and from that perspective it may or may not be a good one. Cities, towns, and neighborhoods can shift significantly and is likely more of a gamble long-term than market investments. It's also typically a lot easier to shift funds invested in the market than to move. Obviously there's more flexibility when you've got very high income like Merovinge pointed out, but it's not like you can't hit that income level outside of Cali doing similar work.


The only issues here is that poster does multiple side gigs to get that income and your comparing it to 1 FTE job in arkansas. Yes, ,those same roles would likely pay less in arkansas but still probably 650-700 ish for equal work.
Eh, in med school in the midwest I knew a couple psychiatrists in different groups making upper 6 figures or clearing 7 figures piecing various jobs together. I rotated with 2 of them. Per most of the groups that do physician income surveys pay is actually highest in the midwest and south and rural(ish) locums can make bank. People have posted FTE positions in the midwest clearing $500k on here. Cali pays better than some places, but from the stuff I get and have seen on here it's not really that different especially when you factor in CoL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sure, but you can get that same house for a fraction in many other places. Basic comparison from Nerd Wallet shows median 3bed 2bath in Los
Angeles to be $1.25 mil and same property in Little Rock (most expensive in AK) is only $440k. At a 6.5% mortgage rate (current is &gt;7.5% for 30 yr fixed) that's a monthly difference of $5,200/mo ($8k in LA vs $2.8k in Little Rock) just in mortgage, doesn't even account for other escrow costs, maintenance/updates, or other CoL. That's over $60k/yr difference that could be invested. After 30 years you've got over $5 mil on $1.8mil in principal at 6% returns.

IRL example, I've talked about my house enough, but our mortgage is around $550k in a "large" midwest metro. Per Zillow, comparable houses in LA area right now (4-5k sq ft, 4-5 bed and bath) range from a low of $2.4 mil in Porter Ranch, CA (I know nothing about this place) to ~$7 mil. At 6.5% mortgage rate, you'd pay $3,500/mo where I'm at vs $15k-44k/mo in LA. That's just the difference in mortgage payments. Even at the low end that's a difference of $138k/yr and at the high end you pay less in a year here than you would in a month there ($42k vs $44k). Invest the $138k and you have $11.2mil on $4.1mil in principal at 30 years at 6% interest. At 8% interest you've got $16.2 mil.

You can look at the house as an investment, and from that perspective it may or may not be a good one. Cities, towns, and neighborhoods can shift significantly and is likely more of a gamble long-term than market investments. It's also typically a lot easier to shift funds invested in the market than to move. Obviously there's more flexibility when you've got very high income like Merovinge pointed out, but it's not like you can't hit that income level outside of Cali doing similar work.



Eh, in med school in the midwest I knew a couple psychiatrists in different groups making upper 6 figures or clearing 7 figures piecing various jobs together. I rotated with 2 of them. Per most of the groups that do physician income surveys pay is actually highest in the midwest and south and rural(ish) locums can make bank. People have posted FTE positions in the midwest clearing $500k on here. Cali pays better than some places, but from the stuff I get and have seen on here it's not really that different especially when you factor in CoL.

No disagreement from me. Northern and southern Cali don’t make financial sense for most physicians
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
No disagreement from me. Northern and southern Cali don’t make financial sense for most physicians

It hurts more right now with interest rates at 6-7%. Lucky for those that got in 5-7years ago and locked in 2-3% and their property at least doubled. Tough ask for someone right now to pay 2x the market value at current interest rates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sure, but you can get that same house for a fraction in many other places. Basic comparison from Nerd Wallet shows median 3bed 2bath in Los
Angeles to be $1.25 mil and same property in Little Rock (most expensive in AK) is only $440k. At a 6.5% mortgage rate (current is >7.5% for 30 yr fixed) that's a monthly difference of $5,200/mo ($8k in LA vs $2.8k in Little Rock) just in mortgage, doesn't even account for other escrow costs, maintenance/updates, or other CoL. That's over $60k/yr difference that could be invested. After 30 years you've got over $5 mil on $1.8mil in principal at 6% returns.

IRL example, I've talked about my house enough, but our mortgage is around $550k in a "large" midwest metro. Per Zillow, comparable houses in LA area right now (4-5k sq ft, 4-5 bed and bath) range from a low of $2.4 mil in Porter Ranch, CA (I know nothing about this place) to ~$7 mil. At 6.5% mortgage rate, you'd pay $3,500/mo where I'm at vs $15k-44k/mo in LA. That's just the difference in mortgage payments. Even at the low end that's a difference of $138k/yr and at the high end you pay less in a year here than you would in a month there ($42k vs $44k). Invest the $138k and you have $11.2mil on $4.1mil in principal at 30 years at 6% interest. At 8% interest you've got $16.2 mil.

You can look at the house as an investment, and from that perspective it may or may not be a good one. Cities, towns, and neighborhoods can shift significantly and is likely more of a gamble long-term than market investments. It's also typically a lot easier to shift funds invested in the market than to move. Obviously there's more flexibility when you've got very high income like Merovinge pointed out, but it's not like you can't hit that income level outside of Cali doing similar work.



Eh, in med school in the midwest I knew a couple psychiatrists in different groups making upper 6 figures or clearing 7 figures piecing various jobs together. I rotated with 2 of them. Per most of the groups that do physician income surveys pay is actually highest in the midwest and south and rural(ish) locums can make bank. People have posted FTE positions in the midwest clearing $500k on here. Cali pays better than some places, but from the stuff I get and have seen on here it's not really that different especially when you factor in CoL.
I think that's entirely reasonable to compare, but also who actually needs a 4-5k sq foot house (I say as someone who bought a 5k sq ft home for under 300k years back). Living in Cali you will need to compromise some things and you would never compare a Midwest doctor mansion to a normal house in Cali. There are other differences as well, like outdoor space is worth much more when you can use it virtually 365 days a year. 7 million will get you a 4-5k sq foot house on a cliff overlooking the ocean in Orange county that is immaculate. My partner's attending retired from his crazy job and built a palace for almost exactly 7 million in SoCal. If I ever meet anyone at a conference please ask for pictures, I assure you it looks nothing like my paltry million dollar house despite the sq footage being in the same ball park.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It hurts more right now with interest rates at 6-7%. Lucky for those that got in 5-7years ago and locked in 2-3% and their property at least doubled. Tough ask for someone right now to pay 2x the market value at current interest rates.
Definitely, we snuck in around 5% but were still too late to get the really low rates. One of my friends from residency built their new home around 2019 right before the lumber prices skyrocketed when rates were still around 3%. They've already almost doubled their investment on a house that's absolutely gorgeous. Helps having 2 physician income, especially when one is a private dermatologist.

I think that's entirely reasonable to compare, but also who actually needs a 4-5k sq foot house (I say as someone who bought a 5k sq ft home for under 300k years back). Living in Cali you will need to compromise some things and you would never compare a Midwest doctor mansion to a normal house in Cali. There are other differences as well, like outdoor space is worth much more when you can use it virtually 365 days a year. 7 million will get you a 4-5k sq foot house on a cliff overlooking the ocean in Orange county that is immaculate. My partner's attending retired from his crazy job and built a palace for almost exactly 7 million in SoCal. If I ever meet anyone at a conference please ask for pictures, I assure you it looks nothing like my paltry million dollar house despite the sq footage being in the same ball park.
I've posted my personal reasons in another thread, but in general family size can make a huge difference. I think a lot of us here either don't have kids or only have 1-2, but I have colleagues with 4-6 kids. 2,000 sq ft is fine for small families and those without children, but even the 4-5k sq ft home can seem small when there's 6-8 people living in it. I've spent most of my life including my whole childhood in the midwest, so being outside in the winter is still normal. I've lived in a coastal(ish) city in the south though, and I personally prefer seasons and especially fall/October weather. I won't argue that the weather in SoCal is definitely something worth a premium for most though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think that's entirely reasonable to compare, but also who actually needs a 4-5k sq foot house (I say as someone who bought a 5k sq ft home for under 300k years back). Living in Cali you will need to compromise some things and you would never compare a Midwest doctor mansion to a normal house in Cali. There are other differences as well, like outdoor space is worth much more when you can use it virtually 365 days a year. 7 million will get you a 4-5k sq foot house on a cliff overlooking the ocean in Orange county that is immaculate. My partner's attending retired from his crazy job and built a palace for almost exactly 7 million in SoCal. If I ever meet anyone at a conference please ask for pictures, I assure you it looks nothing like my paltry million dollar house despite the sq footage being in the same ball park.

Yeah no one "needs" 4-5k sq feet. However i upgrade from a 1200-1500 condo for 2 in the last few years to a 3300 sq foot rental with an unfinished basement turned into a workout room with power rack etc... holy crap its awesome and well worth every dime. I also work over 40 hours from home and my wife will also be 50% from home next month. we need space not to run into each other. I won't consider any house that's under 4k not counting ideally a finished basement, patio, deck etc. I don't drive fancy cars or wear fancy clothes or have rolexes. My thing is my future to be baller house for us no desire to keep up with jones etc bs.

However, we will probably utilize our house double what normal 8-5 people typically are able to enjoy. It will probably cost 800k to 1.2m depending on how new in my area which is 15 min outside a top 15 city.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top