how much do you guys spend annually on vacations?

[sloh]

I Or partner with another high income earner if you really want it all .

This is the way haha

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[untapped]

I guess, but compared to NYC or LA, everything is small. Even San Diego is "small" (1/3 the size of LA) and it's the 8 largest city by population in the US. I've been to the really big cities, and honestly other than some stuff with the arts (shows) and general culture which varies regardless of size, I don't really see more variety in actual things to do in the big cities than in the "smaller" large cities (500k-1mil pop). I don't really see how the Costa Rica comparison you made fits.

ETA: I realize plenty of LCOL cities aren't like this, but there are plenty that are.

I'm comparing smaller US cities w/ Costa Rica (or insert cheaper country to live in), because I'm guessing you could make the same argument for leaving a big coastal city that you can for leaving a small US city. Let's say you work from home - other than shows and general culture of Fort Wayne Indiana, I don't think there's much difference in your day to day life in Costa Rica. You'd have running water, plumbing, refrigeration, a/c and heating, places to eat, things to do in nature. Can shop online. Probably spend most of your time on the internet or watching netflix/youtube/tiktok anyways.

 

[Merovinge]

I'm comparing smaller US cities w/ Costa Rica (or insert cheaper country to live in), because I'm guessing you could make the same argument for leaving a big coastal city that you can for leaving a small US city. Let's say you work from home - other than shows and general culture of Fort Wayne Indiana, I don't think there's much difference in your day to day life in Costa Rica. You'd have running water, plumbing, refrigeration, a/c and heating, places to eat, things to do in nature. Can shop online. Probably spend most of your time on the internet or watching netflix/youtube/tiktok anyways.

Not sure how much time you have spent in 3rd world countries, but the rule of law is a huge difference. I feel very confident that if I buy a house, there is no chance it gets taken away (without financial compensation, please no eminent domain talk). The police and EMS come within 5-10 minutes on the long end if I need them (I know because of how often I call them for my job). People are not generally trying to grift me or get me to buy something when I walk down the street. I have never been to Costa Rica (it's on my top 5 list though), but there is a huge value to the organized civilization in 1st world democracies.

 

[clausewitz2]

Not sure how much time you have spent in 3rd world countries, but the rule of law is a huge difference. I feel very confident that if I buy a house, there is no chance it gets taken away (without financial compensation, please no eminent domain talk). The police and EMS come within 5-10 minutes on the long end if I need them (I know because of how often I call them for my job). People are not generally trying to grift me or get me to buy something when I walk down the street. I have never been to Costa Rica (it's on my top 5 list though), but there is a huge value to the organized civilization in 1st world democracies.

Costa Rica is often regarded as the Switzerland of Central America. It has a stable, democratic government that has been in place since 1847 and the workforce is highly educated. The major industries other than tourism are finance and pharmaceutical manufacturing, both businesses where the players are extremely sensitive to the security of property rights and due process. With a GDP per capita of around $17000 outside of touristy areas being swarmed by people trying to sell you things or come to their cousin's restaurant is not really going to happen. I am 100% in agreement with you, having lived for a while in a place where you got to keep your power during brownouts but only if you paid a special fee to the local linesman.

 

[Merovinge]

Costa Rica is often regarded as the Switzerland of Central America. It has a stable, democratic government that has been in place since 1847 and the workforce is highly educated. The major industries other than tourism are finance and pharmaceutical manufacturing, both businesses where the players are extremely sensitive to the security of property rights and due process. With a GDP per capita of around $17000 outside of touristy areas being swarmed by people trying to sell you things or come to their cousin's restaurant is not really going to happen. I am 100% in agreement with you, having lived for a while in a place where you got to keep your power during brownouts but only if you paid a special fee to the local linesman.

Thanks for the education. Definitely going to make it there in the next 5-10 years and really looking forward to that trip.

 

[Lee Ik-jun MD]

People who truly prefer rural areas have a major financial advantage. Double that if you like snow. I've accepted my fate of dealing w/ homeless people, traffic, and paying 1 million dollars for 1000 sq feet. Me and the other 9.8 million people in LA county must need our heads checked.

moved to Los Angeles, California in 2011 ( from West Hartford, Connecticut) and never looked back.
I like the weather and being close to the beach anytime I want to
Concerts.. recently saw Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran..
Games.. NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB... I can watch all those if I want to
theme parks.. I enjoyed Universal Hollywood Horror Nights and Knotts Scary Farm with my family last October

it's 1am.. and I can still go out and have a Korean buffet in Korea town..
Can't do that if you're in a rural area

snow? what's that? if I want to, I'll drive 1.5-2 hr to enjoy it.

I got used to the traffic at 405, 5 , 10 where 12 miles is 45-90 minutes depending on what time of the day you're driving.

 

[Stagg737]

I think it depends on your interests. If you want Beyonce/Taylor Swift to be coming to your city, it's not going to be likely in a 500k pop city. When you travel to a city and google "things to do in xyz" there is a marked difference between places depending on size. Festivals, pop ups, night life, restaurants, theater/orchestra/ballet, etc do almost precisely vary by the population of the city/metro.

While I personal think there are a ton of great cities that are not coastal in this country, there is certainly a buzz to being in the big heavy hitting metros in the US. Docs make enough money to choose a thing or two (e.g. have a ferrari, nice boat, vacation house, live in a HCoL area, retire early) but not enough money to do everything. People need to pick and choose what matters to them. Or partner with another high income earner if you really want it all .

I wouldn't argue with most of this, but don't really agree with the bolded. Maybe where I'm at is unique, but my neighbor saw both Beyonce and Taylor Swift this summer/fall in our city (wife didn't want to pay >$1000 for nosebleed seats...), we have multiple festivals/shows per year including some annual ones run by major celebrities (I'm going to one on Saturday), a ballet and regular theater (saw Hamilton last spring), one of the top art museums in the country (not the MET or AIC level but next tier down), multiple pro sports, etc. Most recently my wife's aunt and uncle from Long Island were shocked we have a pickleball club 10 minutes from our house in "flyover country".

I say this as someone originally from Chicago with a wife who is also from Chicago whose family is originally from NYC/Long Island. I think the biggest difference having lived in a huge city/metro and also in several smaller/mid-sized cities often isn't what is available, it's what's well known. I've found there's just as much to do in many mid-sized cities (500k-1mil) as the big ones, you just won't know about it unless you know the locals who know what's actually there. My wife was terrified to leave Chicago, but like her family has been shocked by everything there is to do and how much more "culture" there is than what she initially thought there would be.

Costa Rica is often regarded as the Switzerland of Central America. It has a stable, democratic government that has been in place since 1847 and the workforce is highly educated. The major industries other than tourism are finance and pharmaceutical manufacturing, both businesses where the players are extremely sensitive to the security of property rights and due process. With a GDP per capita of around $17000 outside of touristy areas being swarmed by people trying to sell you things or come to their cousin's restaurant is not really going to happen. I am 100% in agreement with you, having lived for a while in a place where you got to keep your power during brownouts but only if you paid a special fee to the local linesman.

Having spent several weeks in Costa Rica, this is mostly true outside of the bolded. The entire country thrives on tourism, and we actually had a guy approach us during a rainforest tour selling painted feathers. Even with that, Costa Rica is my favorite place I've ever been. Absolutely gorgeous, generally safe, friendly people, quite diverse culture (big difference between east and west coasts). Imo 1000% a bucket list trip for anyone.

I'm comparing smaller US cities w/ Costa Rica (or insert cheaper country to live in), because I'm guessing you could make the same argument for leaving a big coastal city that you can for leaving a small US city. Let's say you work from home - other than shows and general culture of Fort Wayne Indiana, I don't think there's much difference in your day to day life in Costa Rica. You'd have running water, plumbing, refrigeration, a/c and heating, places to eat, things to do in nature. Can shop online. Probably spend most of your time on the internet or watching netflix/youtube/tiktok anyways.

I'm not talking about places as small as Fort Wayne. The suburb I live in is nearly that big at just under 200k people while Fort Wayne is 265k people. But there are plenty of cities in the 500k-1 mil range that people consider "lifestyle" cities and even plenty under 500k people that many people consider highly desirable (Atlanta, Miami, Tampa) or feel like there's tons to do. I agree that "small cities" that are more isolated (like Fort Wayne) have less to offer, but there's plenty of places where you can have the same types of things like have been mentioned above immediately available and quire low CoL allowing you to vacation wherever fairly regularly.

 

[Merovinge]

I wouldn't argue with most of this, but don't really agree with the bolded. Maybe where I'm at is unique, but my neighbor saw both Beyonce and Taylor Swift this summer/fall in our city (wife didn't want to pay >$1000 for nosebleed seats...), we have multiple festivals/shows per year including some annual ones run by major celebrities (I'm going to one on Saturday), a ballet and regular theater (saw Hamilton last spring), one of the top art museums in the country (not the MET or AIC level but next tier down), multiple pro sports, etc. Most recently my wife's aunt and uncle from Long Island were shocked we have a pickleball club 10 minutes from our house in "flyover country".

I checked where the ERAS tour went (I don't follow Tswizzle at all) and while it started off with all the big players: Pheonix, Vegas, NYC, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Philly, Seattle, SF, LA, Chicago it did also stop at many mid size metros like Tampa, Nashville, Detroit, Pittsburg, Cincy, KC, and Minneapolis. I'd argue you were pretty lucky to get that stop if you were in the later group and every act won't always come like they would to that former grouping. That said, I do continue to agree that there are a lot of mid size metros that are absolutely worth considering and can be close to the best of both worlds type setup.

 

[clausewitz2]

I checked where the ERAS tour went (I don't follow Tswizzle at all) and while it started off with all the big players: Pheonix, Vegas, NYC, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Philly, Seattle, SF, LA, Chicago it did also stop at many mid size metros like Tampa, Nashville, Detroit, Pittsburg, Cincy, KC, and Minneapolis. I'd argue you were pretty lucky to get that stop if you were in the later group and every act won't always come like they would to that former grouping. That said, I do continue to agree that there are a lot of mid size metros that are absolutely worth considering and can be close to the best of both worlds type setup.

You forgot the "h" n'at. Needs found, you put it dahn somewhere?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If you're in love with the coastal weather/beaches then I completely get it. Imo there's something special about being able to stick your feet in the ocean 5 minutes from your house. If not, then I really don't. There are plenty of metros with well over 1 mil people with LCOL where you can get the housing amenities of California at a fraction of the price with plenty of things to do.

That's the rub for me. I grew up within an hour or so of the beach, and then lived at the beach for a number of years. The problem was mostly cost and politics. I'm hoping to split time between a homestead/hobby farm and a condo at a beach. I'll likely live internationally (condo) part of the year, it just depends where I can find the right fit. I'm currently trying some "work from beach" and longer trips to test out different locations and explore the local real estate markets. I'm hoping to expand my consulting work and shift my practice to mostly legal work in the coming years, which should allow for weeks/months away from my planned homestead.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Not sure how much time you have spent in 3rd world countries, but the rule of law is a huge difference. I feel very confident that if I buy a house, there is no chance it gets taken away (without financial compensation, please no eminent domain talk). The police and EMS come within 5-10 minutes on the long end if I need them (I know because of how often I call them for my job). People are not generally trying to grift me or get me to buy something when I walk down the street. I have never been to Costa Rica (it's on my top 5 list though), but there is a huge value to the organized civilization in 1st world democracies.

Very very true. Some of the central and south american countries struggle w land/deed/property scams, so it makes Americans much less likely to want to move there. I'm considering Costa Rica, Belize, a few cities in Mexico, and possibly some spots in the Caribbean. I'm not looking to own a big place, just a couple of bedrooms and within walking distance of a beach and local restaurants. I enjoy visiting less developed countries, but living in one is very different than visiting for a week.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I checked where the ERAS tour went (I don't follow Tswizzle at all) and while it started off with all the big players: Pheonix, Vegas, NYC, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Philly, Seattle, SF, LA, Chicago it did also stop at many mid size metros like Tampa, Nashville, Detroit, Pittsburg, Cincy, KC, and Minneapolis. I'd argue you were pretty lucky to get that stop if you were in the later group and every act won't always come like they would to that former grouping. That said, I do continue to agree that there are a lot of mid size metros that are absolutely worth considering and can be close to the best of both worlds type setup.

For big tours, I've become much more open to traveling to a city to see a show. It isn't cheap, but a handful of times per year is doable. I figure I already travel to see a couple of broadway shows and major sporting events, so as long as I live near enough to a major airport, I can make it work. While I'll never live in the midwest again, a domestic flight was pretty much 4hr or less, so short trips were doable if direct flights were available. Cities like KC, Nashville, Cinci, Indy become much more accessible and COL friendly if you can make the social/political stuff work.

 

[Stagg737]

I checked where the ERAS tour went (I don't follow Tswizzle at all) and while it started off with all the big players: Pheonix, Vegas, NYC, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Philly, Seattle, SF, LA, Chicago it did also stop at many mid size metros like Tampa, Nashville, Detroit, Pittsburg, Cincy, KC, and Minneapolis. I'd argue you were pretty lucky to get that stop if you were in the later group and every act won't always come like they would to that former grouping. That said, I do continue to agree that there are a lot of mid size metros that are absolutely worth considering and can be close to the best of both worlds type setup.

So some of those "big players" you mention are actually not large cities at all and the "metros" include multiple cities (LA metro is 34,000 sq miles and includes anaheim, Long Beach, Irvine, Riverside, Glendale, San Bernadino, etc; Dallas includes Fort worth which is almost 1 mil pop itself, Arlington, Plano, Irving, etc). I get what you're saying that the metros >4 mil tend to get more attention and are seen differently. Maybe I'm getting too much into semantics, but "mid-sized metro" is populations of <1 mil, and how city-dwellers (myself included) view what "Mid-sized" means is significantly skewed. City pop with (metro pop) listed below:

1. NYC 8.3 mil (20 mil)
2. LA 3.8 mil (13.2mil)
3. Chicago 2.6 mil (9.5mil)
5. Phoenix 1.64 mil (5 mil)
6. Philly 1.56 mil (6.2 mil)
9. Dallas 1.3 mil (7.6 mil)
17. SF 809k (4.5 mil)
18. Seattle 750k (4 mil)
24. Vegas 650k (2.2 mil)
25. Boston 650k (4.9 mil)
38. Atlanta 499k (6.2 mil)

21. Nashville 684k (2 mil)
29. Detroit 620k (4.3 mil)
37. KC 510k (663k if you include KCK and KCMO) (2.2 mil)
46. Minneapolis 425k (3.7 mil)
49. Tampa 398k (3.2 mil)
64. Cincy 310k (2.2 mil)
68. Pitt 303k (2.4 mil)

To the music point bolded, not really. Music tours are pretty consistent in what cities they tour. There are certain US cities that will get almost every major tour come through despite being smaller unless it's an international band doing like 4 shows in the US. It's more about the venues than the cities themselves. Vegas, Nashville, and NOLA are a few. Buffalo and Hartford are also two of the biggest tour stops in the US despite both being pretty small. Of course the 2-3 largest metros will be easy to fill stadiums, but there's certain cities that are just hubs and per capita get a lot more concerts than some other "big players" like Seattle or Phoenix.

Which U.S. Cities Get the Most Concerts? | SeatGeek

One of the great things about live music is that it is universally available in America: you’ll find concerts in nearly every town and city across the country —…

seatgeek.com

 

[untapped]

I wouldn't argue with most of this, but don't really agree with the bolded. Maybe where I'm at is unique, but my neighbor saw both Beyonce and Taylor Swift this summer/fall in our city (wife didn't want to pay >$1000 for nosebleed seats...), we have multiple festivals/shows per year including some annual ones run by major celebrities (I'm going to one on Saturday), a ballet and regular theater (saw Hamilton last spring), one of the top art museums in the country (not the MET or AIC level but next tier down), multiple pro sports, etc. Most recently my wife's aunt and uncle from Long Island were shocked we have a pickleball club 10 minutes from our house in "flyover country".

Sounds like Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Cincinatti.

I lived in Indianapolis which was actually very nice for the most part. Parts of it like Mass Ave and Broad Ripple are very walkable with lots of nice restaurants, bars, etc. Carmel is also a very nice suburb similar to orange county. And there were a good amount of shows coming through, or you could go to Chicago fairly easily.

Someone mentioned California being a luxury good, which makes a lot of sense. With a physician income, I'd rather spend it to get rid of winter and have a beach nearby, then whatever else I could buy w/ the excess saved from living in a place where it hurts to go outside 6 months of the year.

 

[sloh]

I'd rather spend it to get rid of winter and have a beach nearby, then whatever else I could buy w/ the excess saved from living in a place where it hurts to go outside 6 months of the year.

Agreed. More than willing to pay a premium for year round sunshine and not having to trudge through blistering cold and snow sludge. When I lived in Ann Arbor I didn’t even want to go out at all ~4-5 months out of the year to even buy GROCERIES bc it was too d*** cold. Also don’t like the humidity in places like Florida. Being able to travel and visit doesn’t even come close to being able to just live in a nice location every single day of the year. Hard to beat the diversity in SoCal as well, especially if you’re a minority. The demographics of places like Irvine, OC, LA is unmatched.

 

[Stagg737]

Sounds like Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Cincinatti.

I lived in Indianapolis which was actually very nice for the most part. Parts of it like Mass Ave and Broad Ripple are very walkable with lots of nice restaurants, bars, etc. Carmel is also a very nice suburb similar to orange county. And there were a good amount of shows coming through, or you could go to Chicago fairly easily.

Someone mentioned California being a luxury good, which makes a lot of sense. With a physician income, I'd rather spend it to get rid of winter and have a beach nearby, then whatever else I could buy w/ the excess saved from living in a place where it hurts to go outside 6 months of the year.

I'm not in any of those cities, but when I was interviewing for residency Indianapolis felt the most similar (especially financially was almost identical), though I do think the suburbs where I'm at are a bit nicer. I did look into Indy for jobs after residency, but ended up elsewhere. It is also fairly close to Chicago which is nice. I love seasons and winter without (some) snow just feels weird to me, but I get that draw for Cali.

There's no way I could live the lifestyle I have with an academic job in Cali or any HCOL area though. I'm currently the sole income in our house and work at an academic center. I could probably double my income pretty easily if I went into the private world, but for the amount of work I do and the non-clinical (teaching) opportunities, I love where I'm at right now. I'm also mid-30's, behind on retirement, and would like to have the option to retire in my late 50's or early 60's if I want. Where I'm at let's me have the nice house, go to local events and eat out regularly, let the kiddo do whatever activities he wants, and still sock away $50k+ per year pretty easily. Would Cali weather be nice? Sure. But the 3-4 months of cold is a fair trade off to maintain the job and lifestyle here.

 

[untapped]

I'm not in any of those cities, but when I was interviewing for residency Indianapolis felt the most similar (especially financially was almost identical), though I do think the suburbs where I'm at are a bit nicer. I did look into Indy for jobs after residency, but ended up elsewhere. It is also fairly close to Chicago which is nice. I love seasons and winter without (some) snow just feels weird to me, but I get that draw for Cali.

There's no way I could live the lifestyle I have with an academic job in Cali or any HCOL area though. I'm currently the sole income in our house and work at an academic center. I could probably double my income pretty easily if I went into the private world, but for the amount of work I do and the non-clinical (teaching) opportunities, I love where I'm at right now. I'm also mid-30's, behind on retirement, and would like to have the option to retire in my late 50's or early 60's if I want. Where I'm at let's me have the nice house, go to local events and eat out regularly, let the kiddo do whatever activities he wants, and still sock away $50k+ per year pretty easily. Would Cali weather be nice? Sure. But the 3-4 months of cold is a fair trade off to maintain the job and lifestyle here.

Agreed. I’m glad I lived in the Midwest so I could see exactly what I was giving up financially to live in California. For me it’s worth it, but not for everyone. Just like a luxury car or clothes. I think the 200k-250k range is an inflection point for high vs mid/low COL places, maybe 350-500k for families. Below that I’d probably move back to a Midwest/southern metro.