How much does the school matter?

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cheeseandcrackers

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Hello,
This is more of a personal question but I recently got accepted to a school (yay!) but it was the school that I least wanted to attend, for a variety of reasons. However, I didn't get into any other schools that I was interested in that offered extra-curriculars, interprofessional events, family-esque cohort, community service projects like free wheelchair mission, smaller faculty student ratio, research projects. Do these "extras" really make or break the experience? How much of a difference does the curricula make (i.e more known for ortho than neuro, which is what I'm interested in)? Is it more important to just graduate and become a PT?
Thanks in advance!

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If those things are important to you, then they will break your experience no matter what anyone else here says. The question is, are you willing to decline admission and apply next year and possibly not get accepted anywhere?? Also, at least where I go to school, we are being educated as generalists. There is no such thing as neuro or ortho tracks (at least in my area). Your clinicals are where you gain the experience in each setting. I always say to go where you get accepted and graduate especially because it is getting more challenging to get in. If you think that the school will make you miserable...you have some things to think about.
 
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The experience is what you make of it! I'm sorry you didn't get into your top choices, BUT you did get in somewhere! There are so many people that have to take a year off because they didn't get accepted anywhere. As a PT, you'll be taught everything and you can specialize in what your really enjoy later! Each school has pros and cons. And there's no rule that you can't start an extra-curricular in something you're interested in! Some of the concerns can't be changed at the school you did get accepted to sadly. You still get to be a physical therapist and do what you love!
 
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From what every PT has told me, school teaches you the basics. They make sure you can practice without hurting anyone. You get your specialty by going to CE (continuing education). Personally, I'm dying to get into Muscle Energy. I will be seeking out CE classes for that just as soon as I graduate:)
 
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I think schools are very different....but those little extras aren't the big differences in my mind. I value quality of education and clinical experiences more. (Maybe also research opportunities and average board rates)
 
Along with this, I sort of feel the same right now too! So I understand where you are coming from @cheeseandcrackers . I too am curious to see where people weigh in.
 
Thank you guys for your awesome feedback. This was definitely more for my peace of mind and to alleviate my grief hah. But these are all great comments and I appreciate them all!
But it's true, continuing education is definitely something I want to pursue. And the bottom line is to become a PT so I guess it doesn't matter as much what happens in between, as long as I'm getting an education.
@ptlover what's your situation?
 
I was accepted in state at my undergrad institution. I am on the waitlist for a few other schools. The kicker is they cost WAY more, which in the end would be silly of me to attend if I got in....but then there is always that "Am I making the right choice ?" factor
 
After going through this process I cannot imagine that attending a state school is ever the wrong choice.
 
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After going through this process I cannot imagine that attending a state school is ever the wrong choice.

When instate tuition is close to that of some private schools, then it doesn't get so clear cut. Not all in states are 40, 50k....and not all are just a 15 min drive away so you can live at home

But to OP: just consider whether you think the lack of those things will TRULY make you miserable in the program....or if waiting a year and trying again will be worse. But like someone above said, all schools are what you make of it; there's mixed reviews about every program because people interpret their experiences there differently.

Good luck!
 
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My (only) state school is a 7-hour drive ...
 
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My (only) state school is a 7-hour drive ...

Well you said it can never be the wrong choice, so I was simply stating some instances where private or out-of-state schools could very well be a better option (when in state is expensive and you would still have to move and live on loans to attend). The forum stresses in-states, but not all are dirt cheap or close by, so no cost savings there
 
Yes, if there's a private program that's both cheaper AND closer than your state school, by all means.

A state school in another state is still a state school.
 
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Honestly you shouldn't have applied to a school that you were not willing to attend. I realize that circumstances change over time, but personally I think you'd be out of your mind to turn down an acceptance for a gamble at getting in next year. I would strongly recommend getting your DPT done and getting out...it's 3 years compared to 40 years of being a PT.
 
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Dang if I were the OP I would not take the chance of applying again next year unless I was sure I can get in elsewhere. Even then, the process of getting in seems a bit random at times. All the faculty and students I have met have said the same thing: the school is there to teach you the same concepts. How classes are structured may differ, but at the end of three years, we should all have more or less the same knowledge in regards to what we need to know as PTs.
 
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Every school generally teaches the same thing. They have to in order to be accredited. If they didn't then their students wouldn't be able to pass the NPTE.
 
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Yes, if there's a private program that's both cheaper AND closer than your state school, by all means.

A state school in another state is still a state school.

if you subtract texas schools from the equation, then most out-of-state tuition is on par with many private school tuition. I'm just trying to show that many factors play into this and everyone's situation in relation to state schools is not as clear cut as your original statement implied. @ptlover seems to be in that position, where he would be paying more to attend a state school. If you live close by, then obviously the high cost will be offset by living at home. If its both costly and you would have to move just the same, then go where you would like to go (state school - in or out, or private school).
 
@ptlover said HER waitlist schools cost way MORE than her in-state option and it would be "silly" not to attend her state school.

you're comparing apples and oranges. earlier you said OOS could be a better option than private, now not so much. all things equal (either moving or not moving) the in-state option is hard to beat, unless a private school offers lots of money (say Drexel vs. Temple), but even then it's apples and oranges. If you have to move to attend a state school and you don't have to move to attend a private school, there's clearly a apples-to-oranges factor that anyone in such a situation would be aware of. it's important to keep variables equal when making these comparisons to make an informed choice.
 
I have talked with a PT who graduated from a highly reputable school and now owns her own specialized clinic, does research, and is a guest lecturer at a pt program. She told me that where you go to school does matter to an extent. Her clinic has an open position right now and she says that certain applicants get moved to the top of the pile while some goes to the bottom depending on school reputation, experience and whatnot. This may not be true for other employers but just throwing it out there that there are certain places that do take the school you attended into account. Whether or not the cost of the school is worth it depends on the prospective student. Everyone has their own opinion. Right out of PT school she was offered an interview at a place that only accepted PTs with 5+ years of experience, all because of the school she graduated from. Ultimately, most schools will prepare you for the exam and employment rate could be 100% but you might have a slight advantage if you came from a reputable school.
 
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I know at the hospital I worked at frowned and told me not to apply to certain schools. I think when it came to hiring, they based it off the school's clinic or clinicals.
 
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I know at the hospital I worked at frowned and told me not to apply to certain schools. I think when it came to hiring, they based it off the school's clinic or clinicals.
Agreed. They don't necessarily hire based off US News Rankings but more so on how they knowledgeable and experienced the students from certain schools. I was told by a PT that she gets many students from different schools and there are some schools that seem to produce better results based on what she has seen from the students doing clinicals and those that are entry-level that she has worked with.
 
I've seen the US News rankings, but it seems like it's a popularity contest. Is there a site that ranks the schools more accurately than US News???
 
Whether or not the cost of the school is worth...

Since all new PTs start at basically the same salary range regardless of their school's reputation, I would say no. It would only be worth it if you couldn't find a job after going to a cheaper school. But that is almost never the case. And a good portion of the time the cheapest school in the state/region has one of the best reputations anyway.
 
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I like this one a lot! http://physical-therapy-schools.startclass.com/

Easy side-by-side comparisons for factors that matter. It's not a 100% accurate though, so make sure to fact check the numbers. Still very cool though.
I checked it out, but I wasn't too thrilled. They had schools ranked higher that were statistically inferior so I don't understand how they came up with their rankings.
 
I checked it out, but I wasn't too thrilled. They had schools ranked higher that were statistically inferior so I don't understand how they came up with their rankings.
Yeah I agree. I've been looking at that site for a while, and a lot of the numbers are off as well. I guess its better than US News Rankings though lol.
 
Neither of those sites are very good with rankings. Just good for estimates. If you look at that pt site, it has their rankings broken down in a circle graph. 35% is listed as "other" but there's no explicit detail on what "other" entails.
 
Neither of those sites are very good with rankings. Just good for estimates. If you look at that pt site, it has their rankings broken down in a circle graph. 35% is listed as "other" but there's no explicit detail on what "other" entails.
I compared the statistics that are important such as graduation rate. Do you know of a legitimate site that ranks schools?
 
  1. I compared the statistics that are important such as graduation rate. Do you know of a legitimate site that ranks schools?
Personally, I think rankings should be done by your own research and judgment. I wanted to apply to schools with good graduation and 1st time NPTE pass rates (>94%) as well as places where I could picture myself living for 3 years.

As this application process has continued, I have also found myself placing more importance on clinical education, research opportunities, and faculty. I just use US News and that PT site as small supplements to my decision making.

My personal list of criteria for ranking schools are:
  1. Graduation rate (3 year average)
  2. First time NPTE pass rate (3 year average)
  3. Location
  4. Faculty
  5. Cost
  6. Clinicals
  7. Research opportunities
  8. Years accredited
  9. Curriculum
  10. Class size
I find myself wanting to learn from Faculty that have PHDs, specializations, and/or have been teaching for a long time. So faculty has moved up my list from when I initially started this application process.

Also, its funny, I used to think I wanted to attend St. Augustine in San Marcos 2 years ago when I started taking pre reqs. But now I am attending a school that I didn't know existed up until 6 months ago, and it's as far away from my home as you can get lol. Funny how life works out sometimes :)
 
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I wanted to apply to schools with good graduation and 1st time NPTE pass rates

The more I see this line repeated on this forum, the more I realize that this is not the end-all-be-all of school decision making criteria. If you are a quality student you will graduate and become licensed regardless where you go school. Other than a few outliers, the vast majority of schools have ultimate NPTE failure rates low enough to chalk it up to issues specific to those few students more than the school itself.

First time pass rates aren't really an objective way to compare schools. Some schools report this data, but only the three-year ultimate pass rates are universally available, and this is what schools report more often than not. If you take the NPTE repeatedly over the course of 3 years and fail to ever pass, your problem way likely bigger than the school you went to. FSBPT reports that 99% of graduates of accredited PT education programs have ultimately passed the NPTE each graduation year for the last 3 years, and 88-90% pass on their first attempt each year pretty consistently. See here: https://www.fsbpt.org/FreeResources/NPTEPassRateReports/NPTEGraduationYearReports.aspx. When you look across the school-specific data, there are very few schools indeed that have an ultimate pass rate of less than 95%.

I know that this is contradictory to the common consensus on SDN, but I am realizing that graduation and pass rates are mostly not the mission critical deciding factors that we make them out to be, barring the few schools who's numbers in this area may be well below the norm.

For me, I wanted to go to the program that 1.) had a tuition total that was 5 figures, and 2.) had the best reputation regionally among clinicians for producing top-notch PTs. The two state programs I applied to met those criteria. The two private programs I applied to did not and were therefore back up schools. I realized the fact that all graduates of all of these schools gain employment upon graduation/licensure. The more established programs out of this group have a better reputation in the area and provide a higher quality selection of clinical sites.

I must note, however, that the schools I applied to differed so greatly in cost that that was the only deciding factor in reality. As you went from 1st to 2nd to 3rd choice, the total cost increased $30,000 each time, so really no other factors actually mattered. This of course will not be the case for everyone, but I still feel like the total cost (including moving costs, cost of living, etc) and the school's reputation for producing great clinicians should be the main deciding factors. Your fit into a program is also an important secondary consideration (for example if you really want to get into research/academics, you may select a more research-heavy program; if you really are interested in a residency program, you may want to go to the school that supports that residency, etc.). Other minor questions regarding the curriculum, class size, etc. etc. could matter in the case of splitting hairs between programs that differed by <$10k in total cost of attendance. If the cost difference is much greater than that, you're nuts to go to the more expensive one.

In the end, with all these other factors in play, I don't see NPTE ultimate pass rates being a very statistically robust way to rank program quality, as the vast majority of programs are within a few percentage points (essentially 1 or 2 students per class) of each other. Graduation rate should definitely be noted, but that can be difficult to correlate with the educational quality of the school too unless their is a consistent pattern of problems in this area over the course of several years.

Sorry for the treatise... :)
 
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Oh I agree I don't put any weight on 3 year pass rate, as it should definitely be near 100% for all schools or else it's probably the student that is doing something wrong.

But I believe first time pass rate is important, and I feel that if the graduation rate is below 90, then the environment of that school is pretty cut throat. In other words, it comes off that the faculty doesn't care as much for their students graduating.

I also usually email the schools for their 3 year avg first time npte pass rate if it isn't shown on their website.
 
Also, I wanted to add, the reason why location is important to me is because I want to enjoy these 3 years of my life even if it cost more. I know that 3 years isn't a very long time in the grand scheme of things, but it's not that short either lol.

It was also important not to have any distractions. For example, I REALLY like UNLV's program, but after being accepted to UNE, I believe living in Maine would be more beneficial to my educational success than living in Vegas. There will be no distractions for me in Maine and I'll still be able to release stress and have fun since there are a lot of outdoor activities. In Vegas, I will be tempted to play poker all night instead of studying because I'm Asian and gambling is in our blood lol.

I should also note that I have no undergrad debt thanks to my parents (very grateful for) so my situation may be different than others.
 
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TBH I can't imagine gambling at all in Vegas. Already thinking about the stress in PT school.
 
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Lol yeah I've been playing poker for 13 years now and I actually considered going pro after college. So I can play like 48 hours at a time lol.

I was almost about to go anyways to check it out and be able to visit Vegas but my dad didn't want me to go there after already being accepted to UNE. I didn't have a job then so I couldn't afford to go on my own. But after thinking about it, I believe it was a good decision for me.
 
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Oh yeah, I should add that another reason why cost isn't one of my top 3 factors is because I plan on doing travelling PT (with PRN jobs on the side), so I expect my entry level salary to be much greater than the average 65K for new grads in outpatient settings. So, I should be able to pay off my loans much faster! I believe I will enjoy this job so much that I wouldn't mind working 50 hour weeks. Hell, I'm working 40 hours a week as a data entry clerk right now and it isn't too bad! So if I can manage to not be bored outta my mind doing data entry for 40 hours a week, I have a good feeling I can work as a PT for 50+ hours a week while loving my job! :happy:


Also, now you know why I'm on this site all the time..cuz I'm working as a data entry clerk right now and this is much more entertaining hahaha... I can't wait for PT school to start!!!!
 
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Oh yeah, I should add that another reason why cost isn't one of my top 3 factors is because I plan on doing travelling PT (with PRN jobs on the side), so I expect my entry level salary to be much greater than the average 65K for new grads in outpatient settings. So, I should be able to pay off my loans much faster!

So cost of attendance should only be one of the top deciding factors if you cannot see the future. Got it.
 
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So cost of attendance should only be one of the top deciding factors if you can see the future. Got it.
haha na man... I believe each applicant's life situation and preferences are different, so you should come up with your own way to rank schools. I'm just providing MY criteria for ranking schools. I feel that too many people on these boards act like God and believe that there should only be one way to rank schools. I think each person's situation is different, and not everybody has cost as their #1 ranking.

But yeah, I'm pretty set on doing travelling PT. Maybe things will change as I go through PT school, but based on my research, its a perfect fit to my lifestyle. I have no family or kids and I love to travel.
 
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Not everybody wants to go to the cheapest state school that has good passing rates...some of us have different life situations and preferences.
 
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haha na man... I believe each applicant's life situation and preferences are different, so you should come up with your own way to rank schools. I'm just providing MY criteria for ranking schools. I feel that too many people on these boards act like God and believe that there should only be one way to rank schools. I think each person's situation is different, and not everybody has cost as their #1 ranking.

But yeah, I'm pretty set on doing travelling PT. Maybe things will change as I go through PT school, but based on my research, its a perfect fit to my lifestyle. I have no family or kids and I love to travel.

Of course everyone should make their decisions wisely and based off of their own circumstances. But my friend, God laughs at those who plan. Intentionally going to a more expensive school if a cheaper one is available, because you think you will make tens of thousands more every year than your colleagues, is a difficult position to argue. There is never a circumstance where being more indebted is a good thing. I don't dispute that your own preference and life situation are paramount. However, if you are turning down an offer from a cheaper school in favor of a significantly (read: more than a few thousand a year difference) more expensive one, it seems like you should be doing so with the view that you are O.K. with the corresponding level of indebtedness, not with the view that it doesn't matter because I am going to make $100k/year and live off Ramen noodles as soon as I graduate PT school. If it were that easy, a lot more people would do it.

The reason that cost of attendance is preached so heavily on this and many other SDN forums is not because we have a God complex, but because those of us who have struck out on our own and faced the realities of funding life know that a PTs salary, even if it's $100k/year, doesn't go nearly as far as you think it will. The other factors that make one like or dislike a PT school are temporary, but the cost will stick with you many years after school is over. And you can't know if life circumstances won't change. You may meet your future spouse in PT school and be ready for a couple of kids in a few years. Talk about $100k not going very far...

With all that being said, please don't think I'm trying to lecture you or anyone else. I'm simply providing my perspective for everyone reading. And of course perception is, as always, reality.
 
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Of course everyone should make their decisions wisely and based off of their own circumstances. But my friend, God laughs at those who plan. Intentionally going to a more expensive school if a cheaper one is available, because you think you will make tens of thousands more every year than your colleagues, is a difficult position to argue. There is never a circumstance where being more indebted is a good thing. I don't dispute that your own preference and life situation are paramount. However, if you are turning down an offer from a cheaper school in favor of a significantly (read: more than a few thousand a year difference) more expensive one, it seems like you should be doing so with the view that you are O.K. with the corresponding level of indebtedness, not with the view that it doesn't matter because I am going to make $100k/year and live off Ramen noodles as soon as I graduate PT school. If it were that easy, a lot more people would do it.

The reason that cost of attendance is preached so heavily on this and many other SDN forums is not because we have a God complex, but because those of us who have struck out on our own and faced the realities of funding life know that a PTs salary, even if it's $100k/year, doesn't go nearly as far as you think it will. The other factors that make one like or dislike a PT school are temporary, but the cost will stick with you many years after school is over. And you can't know if life circumstances won't change. You may meet your future spouse in PT school and be ready for a couple of kids in a few years. Talk about $100k not going very far...

With all that being said, please don't think I'm trying to lecture you or anyone else. I'm simply providing my perspective for everyone reading. And of course perception is, as always, reality.
Oh I value your opinions, and many others on here, but I also trust myself the most, and I don't believe that I will be eating ramen noodles and struggling with life because I chose to go to a school that's 30K more expensive. As I stated before, my life situation allows me to go to a school that's more expensive, and I am very grateful for that. Now, if I had 2 kids and a lot of undergrad debt, and didn't have parents who were willing to help me out, I would definitely put cost as one of my main factors. But I don't think I'm an idiot for choosing to go to a school that''s more expensive because I want to enjoy life and the place I am living in, and my life situation allows me to put cost lower down on my list.
 
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Also, I've met a lot of PTs that went to USC since I live in the area, and they don't seem to be struggling with life...and that school is like 35K more than the one I am attending
 
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Ktachiba, that's awesome that your financial situation allows you to make a decision that isn't ruled by money.. In a perfect world that's how schools should be chosen. I have to agree with knj, and reiterate what my grandmother always tells me, "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched."
 
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Ktachiba, that's awesome that your financial situation allows you to make a decision that isn't ruled by money.. In a perfect world that's how schools should be chosen. I have to agree with knj, and reiterate what my grandmother always tells me, "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched."
I don't really know what that means.. But yeah I was just tryna say that the average salary for a couple in the US is around 50-60K... So for me to make 100k by myself is very above average. Knj was makin' it sound like it wasn't that much when it reality it is for most people. And not everybody on this forum is struggling with money so I'm just providing an alternative way to choose schools. There's a reason why USC and other tier 1 tuition schools fill up every year.
 
I don't really know what that means..
All it means is you shouldn't make plans that are dependent on something happening before it actually does.

Three years from now salaries could be 15% more than they are now, or 15% less. Who knows?: Nobody.
 
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Yeah it's always better to be safe in life obviously. But I fail to see how that should make me always choose to go to the cheapest state school with good pass rates no matter what. I guess if u really believe the salary of PT will drop by so much then I'm an idiot. But I'm betting it won't and from the pts I've talked to, they said the market is projected to get bigger.

Look man, all I'm saying is that I have carefully analyzed my situation and school choices these past 5 months or so, and decided to attend a more expensive school because I believe it is a great fit to my personality and lifestyle. I don't think I should be considered an idiot for choosing to go to a school that makes me happy. I'm willing to pay 30K more and I know the financial consequences of my actions. And I don't believe I'll be eating ramen noodles and living in my car just because I paid 30 K more in tuition.
 
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I don't think I should be considered an idiot for choosing to go to a school that makes me happy...I don't believe I'll be eating ramen noodles and living in my car just because I paid 30 K more in tuition.

Nobody said either of these things about you. You are misinterpreting the above posts to some extent.

If you want to spend another $30k that's great for you. The point is that for most people that would be a shortsighted decision. That doesn't mean it's the case for everybody, but it is the case for most people.

Borrowing $30,000 at an 8% interest rate is something that most people would not be comfortable with, if there was a viable alternative. But if doing so allows you to be more happy then that's great. Each of us lies in the bed that we make either way.
 
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Yeah it's always better to be safe in life obviously. But I fail to see how that should make me always choose to go to the cheapest state school with good pass rates no matter what. I guess if u really believe the salary of PT will drop by so much then I'm an idiot. But I'm betting it won't and from the pts I've talked to, they said the market is projected to get bigger.

Look man, all I'm saying is that I have carefully analyzed my situation and school choices these past 5 months or so, and decided to attend a more expensive school because I believe it is a great fit to my personality and lifestyle. I don't think I should be considered an idiot for choosing to go to a school that makes me happy. I'm willing to pay 30K more and I know the financial consequences of my actions. And I don't believe I'll be eating ramen noodles and living in my car just because I paid 30 K more in tuition.

I don't typically chime in on these threads, but I was in a similar situation as you in that I didn't have to worry about loans. As a non-traditional student who came from a career that catered to those with plenty of disposable income, I had accumulated a comfortable amount of savings. Additionally, I had asian parents delighted to see their other child also go in into the healthcare industry. Due to scholarships and a part-time job in undergrad, this was the only time my family ever contributed, at little as it may have been, to my continuing education. Personally, that was just additional motivation to kick ass in PT school.

As far as the school I attended, I chose it partly because of the location and it's reputation. When I say reputation, I'm not referring to what students or those in the PT industry might revere. For right or wrong, the general public, and in my case, the more affluent population my practice tries to cater to, are ignorant to this here. As a PT at a cash-based practice, my patients generally want to be seen by someone from a "better" school. Should I try and educate my patients to the fact that school rank doesn't equal competence as a PT? Sure, but I'm also not going to bite the hand that feeds me.

With regard to location, I enjoy virtually anything outdoors or underwater, so Miami provides an opportune location to enjoy my free time. And because I knew I wanted to practice in Miami I wanted to be at a local school that would provide an atmosphere to network. My previous career relied heavily on fostering long term relationships so I took every opportunity to build contacts with every PT or MD I could in the area, whether it was through observations, internships, guest speakers, etc. I knew when I graduated, my ability to stand out for job positions locally would come partly through the connections I made.

So, while cost should play an important role for everyone, there are certainly justifiable reasons to place other factors above cost.
 
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Nobody said either of these things about you. You are misinterpreting the above posts to some extent.

If you want to spend another $30k that's great for you. The point is that for most people that would be a shortsighted decision. That doesn't mean it's the case for everybody, but it is the case for most people.

Borrowing $30,000 at an 8% interest rate is something that most people would not be comfortable with, if there was a viable alternative. But if doing so allows you to be more happy then that's great. Each of us lies in the bed that we make either way.
Yes I agree, that's why I believe it is better to rank schools according to one's own personal criteria rather than always choosing the cheaper state school with good pass rates because everybody's life situation and preferences are different. I'm not advocating going to expensive PT schools...just that one should be more open minded when choosing schools if their lifestyle permits it.
 
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corresponding level of indebtedness, not with the view that it doesn't matter because I am going to make $100k/year and live off Ramen noodles as soon as I graduate PT school. If it were that easy, a lot more people would do it.

The reason that cost of attendance is preached so heavily on this and many other SDN forums is not because we have a God complex, but because those of us who have struck out on our own and faced the realities of funding life know that a PTs salary, even if it's $100k/year, doesn't go nearly as far as you think it will

I agree with most of your post but 100k not stretching far? Ramen noodles? I'm not sure if you're exaggerating to make a point but isn't the median income for a 4 person household like a 1/2 to 2/3 of that?

Budget people, budget. BIG difference between living comfortably and a living a life of luxury.
 
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