How much student debt

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twinspharm

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Its currently my second year of undergrad at pitt and i've applied to pitt, LECOM Erie, and LECOM Bradenton pharmacy school. I was just wondering how much debt a pharmacist in a similar situation has accumulated? I see some people with 200K of debt and i just find that a big excessive.


I did a little rough estimation on how much debt i feel i will accumulate.

I only have 10,000 from my undergrad

Pitt tution is 90K + 10k = 100k
Lecom Erie is 65 + 10k = 75K
Lecom Bradenton is about 80sih + 10k = 90
(This is assuming i get accepted to one of them)

Thanks

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Its currently my second year of undergrad at pitt and i've applied to pitt, LECOM Erie, and LECOM Bradenton pharmacy school. I was just wondering how much debt a pharmacist in a similar situation has accumulated? I see some people with 200K of debt and i just find that a big excessive.


I did a little rough estimation on how much debt i feel i will accumulate.

I only have 10,000 from my undergrad

Pitt tution is 90K + 10k = 100k
Lecom Erie is 65 + 10k = 75K
Lecom Bradenton is about 80sih + 10k = 90
(This is assuming i get accepted to one of them)

Thanks

Great that you feel that way. Some people feel that 200K is not excessive.

We each have a different situation...if you are trying to save money, go to the cheapest school. If you want to go to the best school, go to the best school. That's your decision, not mine. :thumbup:
 
Great that you feel that way. Some people feel that 200K is not excessive.

We each have a different situation...if you are trying to save money, go to the cheapest school. If you want to go to the best school, go to the best school. That's your decision, not mine. :thumbup:

I did my pitt undergrad at pitt and hope to go to pitt pharmacy school. Do you not consider Pitt undergrad/pharmacy a good school?
 
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Its currently my second year of undergrad at pitt and i've applied to pitt, LECOM Erie, and LECOM Bradenton pharmacy school. I was just wondering how much debt a pharmacist in a similar situation has accumulated? I see some people with 200K of debt and i just find that a big excessive.


I did a little rough estimation on how much debt i feel i will accumulate.

I only have 10,000 from my undergrad

Pitt tution is 90K + 10k = 100k
Lecom Erie is 65 + 10k = 75K
Lecom Bradenton is about 80sih + 10k = 90
(This is assuming i get accepted to one of them)

Thanks

What about living expenses? You'll borrow between 70-100K for tuition alone...Many people at my school, including myself, are borrowing 80K for tuition + about 60-80K for living expenses (4 years) = 140K - 160K...add your undergraduate loans to that and you'll be close to 200K.

Try keeping a job while in school...unless you have parents that will support you for 4 more years (wish I was that lucky)


Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $2,000.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,301.61
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $276,192.62
Total Interest Paid: $76,192.62
Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $2,301.61 plus a final payment of $2,301.03.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $276,193.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $184,128.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
 
What about living expenses? You'll borrow between 70-100K for tuition alone...Many people at my school, including myself, are borrowing 80K for tuition + about 60-80K for living expenses (4 years) = 140K - 160K...add your undergraduate loans to that and you'll be close to 200K.

Good point. I figured I would just get a summer job to pay for the living expenses, books, ect. Don't most pharmacy students work as pharm interns during the summers?

I currently have a pretty good summer job that pays very well and if I go to pitt i plan on just keeping it.
 
Good point. I figured I would just get a summer job to pay for the living expenses, books, ect. Don't most pharmacy students work as pharm interns during the summers?

I currently have a pretty good summer job that pays very well and if I go to pitt i plan on just keeping it.

Some students work during the summer and maybe even a day or two while in school, however, I don't know how that could cover your living expenses for the entire year. I guess it depends on how much you make and how much you spend. You could always borrow less for living expenses. Maybe 10K/year = 40K + 80K tuition= 120K
 
Good point. I figured I would just get a summer job to pay for the living expenses, books, ect. Don't most pharmacy students work as pharm interns during the summers?

I currently have a pretty good summer job that pays very well and if I go to pitt i plan on just keeping it.

i dont know how rotations work, but all of my rotations are during the summer ... so a summer job is either not feasible (for 5th -> 6th year) or cut down a month
 
i dont know how rotations work, but all of my rotations are during the summer ... so a summer job is either not feasible (for 5th -> 6th year) or cut down a month

Good point

My sister goes to pitt pharmacy and they have they have their summers off except for the last summer. Shes able to work every wednesday during the school year, put hours in over christmas break, and work during the summer. This covers her living expenses without her having to take excess loans. Its not like she's living it up but how much money does a college student really need to spend?

I live a pretty modest lifestyle so hopefully I could do what my sister does. If not i can always just take out some extra loans
 
Its currently my second year of undergrad at pitt and i've applied to pitt, LECOM Erie, and LECOM Bradenton pharmacy school. I was just wondering how much debt a pharmacist in a similar situation has accumulated? I see some people with 200K of debt and i just find that a big excessive.


I did a little rough estimation on how much debt i feel i will accumulate.

I only have 10,000 from my undergrad

Pitt tution is 90K + 10k = 100k
Lecom Erie is 65 + 10k = 75K
Lecom Bradenton is about 80sih + 10k = 90
(This is assuming i get accepted to one of them)

Thanks

The rule of thumb is NOT to have student loan > 100% of your annual income upon graduation. Since retail get you about $120K/yr, that's where you should try to draw the line. Loading up on $200k for pharmacy school is pretty crazy in my book.

It's perfectly possible to make enough money to live on during school. I worked 2 days a week through my pharmacy school, that's $1K a month, enough to pay the living cost. Worked full time during summer allowed me to dent the loan a little more. I'm graduating with $80K in loans, and $38K of that was due to being a out-of-stater during P1 year. <sigh> :(
 
The rule of thumb is NOT to have student loan > 100% of your annual income upon graduation. Since retail get you about $120K/yr, that's where you should try to draw the line. Loading up on $200k for pharmacy school is pretty crazy in my book.

It's perfectly possible to make enough money to live on during school. I worked 2 days a week through my pharmacy school, that's $1K a month, enough to pay the living cost. Worked full time during summer allowed me to dent the loan a little more. I'm graduating with $80K in loans, and $38K of that was due to being a out-of-stater during P1 year. <sigh> :(

ya i think 200k is crazy too. I don't understand why more people don't get summer jobs and part time jobs to pay a little of their debt. Its not like there is no free time at college. I don't think people realize how much interest is on 200k plus it will just compound while they r in school or if they get laid off.
 
The rule of thumb is NOT to have student loan > 100% of your annual income upon graduation. Since retail get you about $120K/yr, that's where you should try to draw the line. Loading up on $200k for pharmacy school is pretty crazy in my book.

It's perfectly possible to make enough money to live on during school. I worked 2 days a week through my pharmacy school, that's $1K a month, enough to pay the living cost. Worked full time during summer allowed me to dent the loan a little more. I'm graduating with $80K in loans, and $38K of that was due to being a out-of-stater during P1 year. <sigh> :(

where did you go to pharmacy school? i'm looking at an OOS (UNC) school vs my in-state school (UF) and am mulling the risk of applying for in-state residency after my first year. just trying to get as much insight as possible before finalizing my decision and pulling my commitment to one of the schools. thanks!
 
where did you go to pharmacy school? i'm looking at an OOS (UNC) school vs my in-state school (UF) and am mulling the risk of applying for in-state residency after my first year. just trying to get as much insight as possible before finalizing my decision and pulling my commitment to one of the schools. thanks!

I'm at Ohio State University. I was a michigan resident during the first year. I would have saved some money P1 year by going to U of M but their higher tuition during P2-4 made the total cost the same. Both schools were ranked equally, so I went with the one that made me feel more welcomed, and now I'm a buckeye! Woohoo!

If you go OOS, I would definitely make sure UNC would let you become a local after 1 year of school. Know the rules, know how easy/difficult/certain it is to do. Gaining ohio residency was easy and a certainty as long as we followed the rules (ie, don't take money from your parents). If you have any doubt about being able to become a resident, I would stay within your home state.
 
I'm at Ohio State University. I was a michigan resident during the first year. I would have saved some money P1 year by going to U of M but their higher tuition during P2-4 made the total cost the same. Both schools were ranked equally, so I went with the one that made me feel more welcomed, and now I'm a buckeye! Woohoo!

If you go OOS, I would definitely make sure UNC would let you become a local after 1 year of school. Know the rules, know how easy/difficult/certain it is to do. Gaining ohio residency was easy and a certainty as long as we followed the rules (ie, don't take money from your parents). If you have any doubt about being able to become a resident, I would stay within your home state.

NC does indeed allow one to become an in-state resident after one year but I haven't been able to find anyone to consult who has moved there and changed their residency. Would you recommend calling the school?
 
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NC does indeed allow one to become an in-state resident after one year but I haven't been able to find anyone to consult who has moved there and changed their residency. Would you recommend calling the school?

yeah. I would speak to the person in charge of financial aid in the college of pharmacy. Be sure to get the complete info, on paper would be super. Too much money is on the line here for any mistakes.

OSU's financial aid guy came and give a 30 minute presentation during our interviews, and assured us that we all can change the residency just by following the simple rules. For us it was easy: (1) bank statements before and at the end of the first year (showing no body gave us any money). (2) demonstrate we had enough student loans and part-time income to cover our expenses during the P1 year. (3) not leave the state for more than 3 weeks during the year. With the documents in hand, 2 hours later my P2 tuition went from $30K down to $15K... cha ching!
 
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Some people rack up student debt with out any regards for paying it back. I know someone who took out 2k in loans for new summer wardrobe (the person already had more clothes than any college student needs). I think that people should attempt to cover their living expenses with a temporary job and just take out loans for tuition if possible.

On the other hand, some people’s parents cover nothing of their expenses and its either loans or dropping out.

I have owned my own business since I was thirteen and I can make much more money in one year than a year of pharmacy school, so I am not worried about paying for it.

I feel the pain of people who rack up 200k plus because it will be a cumbersome burden to pay off one day. Almost need to work some overtime to help cover it.
 
The rule of thumb is NOT to have student loan > 100% of your annual income upon graduation. Since retail get you about $120K/yr, that's where you should try to draw the line. Loading up on $200k for pharmacy school is pretty crazy in my book.

It's perfectly possible to make enough money to live on during school. I worked 2 days a week through my pharmacy school, that's $1K a month, enough to pay the living cost. Worked full time during summer allowed me to dent the loan a little more. I'm graduating with $80K in loans, and $38K of that was due to being a out-of-stater during P1 year. <sigh> :(
how much was your rent? I've never lived alone so i was just curious. And you found a job making around 250$ for 2 days a week that's awesome.
 
60k OOS Undergrad.
160k+ for OOS Pharmacy School.
->over 220k.

I'm not too worried as I have an unofficial interest free loan, though it does look staggering to tackle all at once....
 
Just some perspective. I work as often as possible, and can only bring in about 10-14K/yr. My rent alone is $1550/month. Granted I'm married with 3 kids, but even single students in CA are paying ~550-600/month ($7K/yr) just for rent. So not everyone can pay living expenses with a temp job, or even summer work. Now, you can say people in CA are crazy, and you'd be right. But it's one of the many situations where people, even being penny pinchers, can come out paying >200K. I will probably graduate with ~160K in the end, but I started with about 60K in savings as well.
 
based on bush's education access act it doesn't matter whether you owe 130K or 500K in federal loans ... the amount of money actually paid back will be fairly comparable if one works for a non-profit hospital and makes payments for 10 years, since the remaining balance would be forgiven (no taxes incurred).

if obama's proposal goes through, the margin between the two amounts would be greater.

as of now the equation is (salary-discretionary income)*.15 / 12 months = monthly payment only if total amount of loan money owed is less than one's annual salary. (gov't discretionary income as of now = 16,800)

obama's plan would change the .15 to .10 which lowers the payment by roughly 30%


consider owing 200K but you only make 100K annually at the VA

(100K - 16800 - 401k contributions 8500)* .10 / 12 = $622.5 per month payment for 10 years then the remaining balance is forgiven. the amount actually paid over 10 years is prolly close to 130K considering raises in salary over the 10 years.

it doesn't matter how much you owe or what the interest rate is at as long as the amount owed is greater than your salary...also being that the interest is still accruing for 5 years and your not touching the principle of the loan...don't fear your income will be greater than the loan anytime soon

the alternate std 10 yr payment plan on 200k in loans would be $2301 per month as stated above...at least bush did one thing right


ibrinfo.org has a current calculator using bush's .15 (which makes the above example's monthly payment larger ~ $1000)

give me a 7 on 7 off with 28 weeks vacation at a decent hospital to practice at my best and enjoy life....f the loans no worries
 
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Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $2,000.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,301.61
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $276,192.62
Total Interest Paid: $76,192.62
Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $2,301.61 plus a final payment of $2,301.03.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $276,193.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $184,128.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
I'm going to throw some more math in to the mix :). The interest rate makes a big difference. Previously in 2005, you could get a 30 year consolidation loan with an interest rate fixed at 1.625% after incentives! So you could easily borrow $200,000 without stocking up on Astroglide:

Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 1.62%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $702.30
Number of Payments: 360

Cumulative Payments: $252,828.10
Total Interest Paid: $52,828.10

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 359 payments of $702.30 plus a final payment of $702.40.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $84,276.00 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 2.4. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $56,184.00, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 3.6.

So $700/month is definitely more manageable and even over 30 years, you're paying less interest than 10 years at 6.8%.

Unfortunately, that practically free money is no longer available. Furthermore, it probably fueled the tuition increases and the opening of expensive new private schools that students are still gladly lining up for today.

Staffords for grad students now have an interest rate fixed at 6.8%. At this rate, you definitely have to take a closer look at whether the 'investment' in education is worth it. Be careful when you hear about past students racking up $200k (at low interest rates) and are doing fine today. $200k at 6.8% is going to be very difficult!
 
I'm going to throw some more math in to the mix :). The interest rate makes a big difference. Previously in 2005, you could get a 30 year consolidation loan with an interest rate fixed at 1.625% after incentives! So you could easily borrow $200,000 without stocking up on Astroglide:

Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $200,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 1.62%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $702.30
Number of Payments: 360

Cumulative Payments: $252,828.10
Total Interest Paid: $52,828.10

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 359 payments of $702.30 plus a final payment of $702.40.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $84,276.00 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 2.4. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $56,184.00, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 3.6.

So $700/month is definitely more manageable and even over 30 years, you're paying less interest than 10 years at 6.8%.

Unfortunately, that practically free money is no longer available. Furthermore, it probably fueled the tuition increases and the opening of expensive new private schools that students are still gladly lining up for today.

Staffords for grad students now have an interest rate fixed at 6.8%. At this rate, you definitely have to take a closer look at whether the 'investment' in education is worth it. Be careful when you hear about past students racking up $200k (at low interest rates) and are doing fine today. $200k at 6.8% is going to be very difficult!

So is 6.8% the lowest interest you can get on your loans now?

Can you get a lower rate if you consolidate? I know I sound clueless...I guess I am. I wish I knew more about all this before loading on student loans. Like many new excited pharmacy students all I cared about was getting a degree.
As for now my plan is to sign up for a 30 year plan with a monthly minimum and pay more when I can so I don't have to pay that much interest.
 
So is 6.8% the lowest interest you can get on your loans now?

Can you get a lower rate if you consolidate? I know I sound clueless...I guess I am. I wish I knew more about all this before loading on student loans. Like many new excited pharmacy students all I cared about was getting a degree.
As for now my plan is to sign up for a 30 year plan with a monthly minimum and pay more when I can so I don't have to pay that much interest.

longer you pay, the more interest you pay. Im gonna try to knock out 70-80k right off the bat in the first few years, then switch to 10 year probably. or maybe just start with ibr .. which is appealing too. im gonna have around 140-150k total but with interest i expect my overall amount coming out of school to be around 170k

however, there's a lot to be said for holding on to a lot of your loan value if you predict inflation will hit. I for one am going to pay back the rest real slow so that I can win more if we hit 10% inflation.
 
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how much was your rent? I've never lived alone so i was just curious. And you found a job making around 250$ for 2 days a week that's awesome.

A good thing about going to school in the midwest is the low cost of living. My rent when I was living alone was $430. Now I live with my fiancee, the rent is $690 for the both of us.

So $1000 a month in internship pay was just enough to cover the rent, food, utility, insurance, gas. We do occasionally go over when we buy a bunch of extra stuff, but that's where the money you built up during the summer comes into play.

I make $15/hr at walgreens, and ~$16/hr at the hospital ($13+weekend/evening shift differential). In the summer, I work 3-4 shifts/week at the hospital and pick up 2-3 more shifts at walgreens, so was able to grow my savings account by about ~$4K net.

It's not easy living like many of my classmates, but it's not crazy busy and I was able to keep my grades up. Some of my classmates are more nuts. One girl I know worked 32 hours/week DURING school, and she's graduating with less than $30K in debt.
 
My wife and I are estimating $178,500 total student loans at my graduation in 2012. That includes 2 undergrads and a PharmD (Private school PharmD --- erghhh bad idea...). It also takes into account interest accrued on unsubsidized loans, and probable tuition hikes.

We have actually managed to reduce this amount by about 15,000 over the course of this past year. Initially we were looking at 193,000. My wife works fulltime and I work, too - about 20 hrs a week.

Our estimated payoff date is Jan 1, 2016. Once I graduate, basically ALL of our $$$ will go to loans. i can't WAIT to be debt free.
 
interest rate has no effect using the ibr as long as amount owed is greater than annual salary...it doesn't matter if the rate is 0.001% or 18%, your payments are only based on your income. do the calculation at www.ibrinfo.org.... it's irrelevant.

the interest rate only comes into account if you make more than you owe which is more likely to occur after 7 or 8 years of payment, but at that point only a fews years to go until all is forgiven.
 
You can do IBR if you borrow more than about 1x your salary, so let's say that's borrowing more than $100k for pharmacists. IBR will cap your payment at about $1,100/month.

If you do the public service loan forgiveness after 10 years, you will benefit if you borrow more than $100k.

If you do not work in public service, you can get the balance forgiven after 25 years, so you will benefit if you borrow more than 1.5x your salary ($150k). Actually, you will probably have to borrow a lot more than $150k to get anything forgiven after 25 years because your salary and payment will increase with inflation.

Keep in mind that even with IBR, your payment is about $1,100/month. Take home pay for pharmacists is about $6,500/month.
 
So is 6.8% the lowest interest you can get on your loans now?

Can you get a lower rate if you consolidate?

Stafford loans used to have a variable interest rate. The trick was to consolidate when the interest rate was low to lock in that rate.

Staffords for grad students are now already fixed at 6.8% so you won't get much benefit from consolidating.
 
Do you not consider Pitt undergrad/pharmacy a good school?

In the Yinzerville region, I'd go to Pitt or WVU. They are typically a step above LECOM and Duquesne grads. Just my honest opinion.

WVU only set me back $95k...and it's half paid off...I'd go with that cheap instate tuition.
 
What makes me really MAD is the 6.8% interest set by the government.

What the heck are they doing when the national mortagage rate is much lower than our student loan rate!

I currently paying back $1150 religiously a month. Trust me, it is painful after a while. For the last few months, I've been thinking, "Oh...that could be a beautiful Audi R8..."

My plan is: Become a really good investor and save some good assets which generates sufficient income. Then maybe, some super inflation happens, which even makes a $200,000 loan look like $2,000, and we'll live happily ever after!
 
The rule of thumb is NOT to have student loan > 100% of your annual income upon graduation. Since retail get you about $120K/yr, that's where you should try to draw the line. Loading up on $200k for pharmacy school is pretty crazy in my book.

It's perfectly possible to make enough money to live on during school. I worked 2 days a week through my pharmacy school, that's $1K a month, enough to pay the living cost. Worked full time during summer allowed me to dent the loan a little more. I'm graduating with $80K in loans, and $38K of that was due to being a out-of-stater during P1 year. <sigh> :(
What job do you do that you make 1k a month by working two days a week?
 
Stafford loans used to have a variable interest rate. The trick was to consolidate when the interest rate was low to lock in that rate.

Staffords for grad students are now already fixed at 6.8% so you won't get much benefit from consolidating.

I consolidated my "fixed" 6.8% stafford loans into a fixed 5.5% consolidation loan through direct loans.
 
I consolidated my "fixed" 6.8% stafford loans into a fixed 5.5% consolidation loan through direct loans.
Well there you go. These schemes keep changing and I can't keep up :). Indeed I also had my 6.8% 'fixed' Staffords reduced to 5.75% after lender incentives but I paid them off already because that was still too high.
 
In the Yinzerville region, I'd go to Pitt or WVU. They are typically a step above LECOM and Duquesne grads. Just my honest opinion.

WVU only set me back $95k...and it's half paid off...I'd go with that cheap instate tuition.

Rutgers will also set me back around 90-100,000$. :thumbup: pretty cheap for 6 years + rotations considering how much some other people are paying.

in-state tuition :love:
 
What job do you do that you make 1k a month by working two days a week?

Just pharmacy internships at walgreens and at a major hospital near by.

Walg is paying $13/hr for P1s, and goes up by $1/hr per school year. My friends at Kroger was making $18 and $21/hr as P3 and P4s respectively, buts but Kroger changed policy now that you have to sign up to work for them after graduation to get those rates, otherwise intern pay is capped at $15/hr.

My hospital starts me off at $12.29/hr, and goes up by 50 cents per year, but working evenings pays $2/hr extra, and an additional $2/hr during weekends. So getting paid ~$16/hr works out beautifully for us interns who prefer to work on weekends anyway.

As a student, with all the deductions and tax credit, you basically pay no taxes. $15/hr x 16 hours/wk x 52 wks/yr = $12480/yr. Working fulltime during the summer adds another $4000 to that.
 
Rutgers will also set me back around 90-100,000$. :thumbup: pretty cheap for 6 years + rotations considering how much some other people are paying.

in-state tuition :love:

Also, a good way to save money is by keeping your grades up. OSU COP automatically assign scholarship money based on needs and merits. So working more at the expense of studying has a diminished rate of return.

By not working excessively at the expense of my grades, I saved about ~$10K through scholarship through pharmacy school. But at the same time, working a moderate amount helped my grades because of the knowledge acquired through internship. Not to mention how both grades and internship made the CV looked good.
 
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