How should I treat myself as an applicant? 4.0/30

[I Love Cats]

By "How should I treat myself?", I mean I have no idea how to think of myself realistically so that I approach the next cycle appropriately. I already messed up last cycle by being verified at the end of september, waiting forever to send in secondaries and also only sending in 9 or 10 secondaries. I'm in the process of triaging my mistakes.

To reiterate from the title, I have a 4.0/30. Breakdown: 11 (BS), 11 (PS), 8 (VR). I have a high GPA as a dual degree science major, ~0.3 above the average acceptance GPA, but a 30 which is ~1 point below the average acceptance GPA. Both of those statements pertain to M.D. schools.

Last cycle I remember being very confused about what schools to apply to since my MCAT was below the median for most places I applied to (by about 1-2 points), but my GPA was well above the median by like ~0.3. I remember viewing things so narrowly scoped thinking just because my MCAT was a point or two lower that I shouldn't apply there, but in retrospect I feel I may not have given my GPA enough credit. I may have hurt myself by thinking my MCAT ruined me.

How should I view myself, stats-wise, with a combined 4.0/30? Average? Slightly above average? Below average?

Next, how do I choose my schools since many will have an average or median at or slightly above my MCAT? I have recently tried to justify schools by using LizzyM scores of schools compared to mine.

I look at it like I gained 3 lizzym points by being ~0.3 above average, but I lost 1 by being 1 point below average on my MCAT. So in the end I netted 2 lizzym above the average applicant. Is this the appropriate way to view myself purely pertaining to stats? Assuming a 30 isn't a turn off, shouldn't I be slightly above average as a whole? And Is this is a healthy way to think of myself when choosing my schools since I'll feel inadequate for just about every school if I use just my MCAT to choose a school?

Lastly, will schools be okay with a well-above average gpa, and then a slightly below average MCAT? Will they go through the thought process like I did in the previous paragraph and see me as a slightly above average applicant because my GPA compensates and then some for my barely below average MCAT (assuming lizzym is a somewhat objective way to combine stats)?

This all comes down to this then: what schools in what range become good places to apply to? I don't need specific schools, because I have an MSAR to do that, but generally speaking. Thank you for any time and advice any of you may offer.

P.S. An MCAT retake is not possible this year. God forbid another failed cycle starting this June, but if it did happen, I'd retake it before a 3rd application when I'm done with my undergrad.

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[SOMBound13]

We need more info

What is your home state?

do you have ties to any other states?

When will you be submitting to AMCAS?

Are you a senior now?

Where did you apply to this last cycle?

When did you apply last cycle?

Did you get any IIs? If so, are you on any WLs?

What are your ECs?


Personally, since only your V is low, I think some SOMs will be pleased with your high GPA and your good BS and PS scores.

 

[I Love Cats]

My home state is in the south-west (not California), and it has two DO schools and two MD schools.

I have lots of family in Ohio. That's as tied as I'm gonna get.

I'll submit first day.

Senior now (remember two degree's worth of credits). I graduate in May.

Applied to schools that are definitely not top 20, and I only broke top 50 twice with the schools I chose. I was quite conservative for my situation (I think?). Examples are: Miami, Wright, Wake Forest, Ohio State, Arizona, Penn, Creighton, Toledo, Michigan State, MC Wisconsin, Loma Linda, Rosalind Franklin, NY Med, St. Louis etc. The ones listed here didn't necessarily get their secondaries sent back even if I got them.

I had two interviews, yes. Not waitlisted yet. I'm on a continual review, but essentially a pre-waitlist.

EC's:
-Shadowed multiple physicians
-Research for a few months in a hospital.
- Payed lab instructor for a couple of years
-Volunteer work plenty clinical and some non-clinical.
-Other jobs. (sadly none payed clinical).

 

[LizzyM]

I would add, are you a native speaker of English? If not, at what age/grade did you begin attending school taught in English? How did you prepare for the MCAT?

 

[I Love Cats]

Sadly, yes I am a native English speaker. I just royally screwed up my actual test. I got a few points lower overall on my mcat than my AAMC practices would have predicted. It was a rough test for my strengths as well. Overall, I studied about 4.5 weeks and just took the test after my Kaplan class ended despite only having been doing tests for ~2 weeks prior to my actual one. In retrospect I'm an idiot because I hadn't developed enough consistency to repeat my scores confidently apparently, and the only verbal practice I did was from my 7 or so practice tests. Anyways, I could likely pull off a 32-35 with another more appropriate approach to it, but I don't have time before this cycle starts.

 

[LizzyM]

Sadly, yes I am a native English speaker. I just royally screwed up my actual test. I got a few points lower overall on my mcat than my AAMC practices would have predicted. It was a rough test for my strengths as well. Overall, I studied about 4.5 weeks and just took the test after my Kaplan class ended despite only having been doing tests for ~2 weeks prior to my actual one. In retrospect I'm an idiot because I hadn't developed enough consistency to repeat my scores confidently apparently, and the only verbal practice I did was from my 7 or so practice tests. Anyways, I could likely pull off a 32-35 with another more appropriate approach to it, but I don't have time before this cycle starts.

If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

You could have a good cycle if you prepared and retook the MCAT by June 1. You could apply to one school and add other schools after your scores came back as long as you have your secondaries in by Aug 15.

The 4.0/30 screams "grade inflation" or "picked easy classes/sections/professors".

The verbal is holding you back and applying late and to very few schools didn't help.

 

[I Love Cats]

If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

You could have a good cycle if you prepared and retook the MCAT by June 1. You could apply to one school and add other schools after your scores came back as long as you have your secondaries in by Aug 15.

The 4.0/30 screams "grade inflation" or "picked easy classes/sections/professors".

The verbal is holding you back and applying late and to very few schools didn't help.

Honestly though, I was doing better than 30's. I figured ending on a couple 34's on my practice tests was a good sign I was ready. In retrospect it's always easy to find things to blame. My goal was just a 32 or 33 anyway. At the time, I thought I was ready, and I was encouraged to do it as well. I ended up getting the lowest sub-scores I'd gotten to date on the real thing, and I never had an 8 verbal on any practice.

School ends ~May 1st where I'm at. I'd put myself in the same situation again, 1 month to study, then take it, and then I might blow it again. Having my secondaries in by August 15 would still delay me significantly though and hinder my application wouldn't it?

I feel like it isn't physically possible for me or doable in a timely manner for me to retake that thing. I'm in the middle of a nightmare of a last semester too, so I can't do any studying before finals.

So, here I am. The MCAT/GPA grid says that 3.8-4.0/30-32 have an 82% chance. It may scream grade inflation, but apparently the scream hasn't turned off many schools to those individuals in the past. Would I be any different than those individuals that comprise that number on the grid? If so, why? Thank you for your very welcome input.

Now I feel like I'm stuck in a pickle.

 

[LizzyM]

Well, you've been in the 18% before and not doing anything to improve your application other than applying earlier, you hope you will end up among the 82% this time. Maybe, maybe not. If you can make prepping for the MCAT your full-time job for a month, it might be enough. Certainly people do it that way for the Step 1 exam at the end of M2 year but many start preparing in Jan/Feb for that summer exam. In any case, I hear my fellow adcom members echoing in my ears, "why didn't he retake the MCAT?"

 

[I Love Cats]

Full time one month was what I did before too. My 4.5 weeks was full time, but you're right in what you say. You've given me more to consider. Thank you.

 

[SOMBound13]

The 4.0/30 screams "grade inflation" or "picked easy classes/sections/professors".

LizzieM,

I can understand that might be a first impression, but wouldn't the 11's in the BS and PS mitigate that somewhat?

I agree that the V is an issue, but if the instate publics highly favor instate students and aren't crazy competitve like Calif, and the student applies early, wouldn't that more likely result in an instate acceptance?

School ends ~May 1st where I'm at. I'd put myself in the same situation again, 1 month to study, then take it, and then I might blow it again. Having my secondaries in by August 15 would still delay me significantly though and hinder my application wouldn't it?

Well, could you study, study, study the V during May and take the MCAT again at the end of May? Of course, review BS and PS, but it appears that you're pretty good there already.

 

[I Love Cats]

I could rush it, but I don't want to blow it again. It is apparently something I need to think about. However, I'm not sure if my initial post was answered explicitly despite having been proposed with an idea worth thinking about. So... Am I not viewed as a good applicant because I have an awesome gpa with a mediocre MCAT? If I had slacked and gotten B's, I'd be better off?

Wut.

 

[I Love Cats]

And my sciences should have been 12's and 13's with minimum 9 in VR, so maybe I just brush up and hope for the best that I get a test more kind to me. My exam literally opened up with my worst subject. I hate to put my future on luck though.

 

[as1212559]

It might just be me but 4.0/4.0/30 should be odds on for an MD acceptance. I know someone non-URM with same gpa and a significantly lower mcat than that who will matriculate MD next year. Sounds like a case of poor applying the first time through, no offense intended.

 

[I Love Cats]

No offense taken. Thank you.

 

[as1212559]

I suppose I could post more productively. While I am no expert on MD admissions being a future DO, I would be a little wary to suggest an MCAT retake. I think if you applied early and to the right schools (state schools, schools with lower MCAT averages, etc) you should find yourself with an acceptance. (emphasis on should)

If you have a state school and aren't from CA, I would imagine you'd have a reasonably solid chance there unless something else is wrong with your file (no ECs, bad LORs, etc.)

I obviously agree with others that a higher MCAT would help your application but if you have to rush to do it just to apply in a timely fashion then idk. If you rush too much and score the same or even worse a point lower, that could sink your app.

Start studying for the MCAT now?

And while I know LizzyM's words are gospel on SDN, remember that he/she looks at apps at a super competitive school so it is easy for him/her to call bs and grade inflation when it sounds like a bad day in the MCAT testing center office to me. Some schools might see you as a great fit considering your stats are pleasant and whatever else is in your file.

Take some time to consider your options here is my point..

 

[DAPI]

Well, you've been in the 18% before and not doing anything to improve your application other than applying earlier, you hope you will end up among the 82% this time. Maybe, maybe not. If you can make prepping for the MCAT your full-time job for a month, it might be enough. Certainly people do it that way for the Step 1 exam at the end of M2 year but many start preparing in Jan/Feb for that summer exam. In any case, I hear my fellow adcom members echoing in my ears, "why didn't he retake the MCAT?"

Can you elaborate on this a bit LizzyM? If people improve other parts of their app do adcom's really question why an MCAT was not retaken? Or is it the 8 that brings that question to mind and a 10/10/10 would not elicit that same response?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Can you elaborate on this a bit LizzyM? If people improve other parts of their app do adcom's really question why an MCAT was not retaken? Or is it the 8 that brings that question to mind and a 10/10/10 would not elicit that same response?

Thanks!

Yes, the 8 would raise the question "why didn't he retake the MCAT?" if that is the weak spot in the application. If you improve other parts of the application but don't correct the weak spot, your application is still weak.

 

[SOMBound13]

Yes, the 8 would raise the question "why didn't he retake the MCAT?" if that is the weak spot in the application. If you improve other parts of the application but don't correct the weak spot, your application is still weak.

So, it sounds like the student should sign up for the last May MCAT, and spend May studying for it. That would still allow for an early app/verification process.

 

[I Love Cats]

I'd be in an even worse situation than I was in last summer with the time constraint I would have, and then I have to hope to not blow it. We might as well make this discussion about risk of ruining my future with a blown second MCAT vs risk of applying as I am...With an apparently controversial 4.0 gpa and 30mcat.

 

[LizzyM]

I'd be in an even worse situation than I was in last summer with the time constraint I would have, and then I have to hope to not blow it. We might as well make this discussion about risk of ruining my future with a blown second MCAT vs risk of applying as I am...With an apparently controversial 4.0 gpa and 30mcat.

well, if you need more time, hold off and apply in 2014!

 

[I Love Cats]

Could I hurt myself in the long run by applying this summer? What could be bad about it?

 

[LizzyM]

Could I hurt myself in the long run by applying this summer? What could be bad about it?

Well, sometimes the third time's the charm! An unsuccessful cycle is expensive and emotionally draining. If you think that timing was the only problem in the last cycle go ahead and apply without any real improvement in your application. Then bump this thread this time next year and tell us how things worked out.

 

[SOMBound13]

I'd be in an even worse situation than I was in last summer with the time constraint I would have, and then I have to hope to not blow it. We might as well make this discussion about risk of ruining my future with a blown second MCAT vs risk of applying as I am...With an apparently controversial 4.0 gpa and 30mcat.

What am I missing? If you take the MCAT in May, how will that make your app late? You can have everything good to go and when your score is reported in June, you'll then be verified by July. Right? That's a month earlier than when I was verified this last cycle.

Or am I missing something?

 

[I Love Cats]

What am I missing? If you take the MCAT in May, how will that make your app late? You can have everything good to go and when your score is reported in June, you'll then be verified by July. Right? That's a month earlier than when I was verified this last cycle.

Or am I missing something?

I would still be relatively early, yes.

The problem: Would you really want to take the MCAT with less than a month of prep?

 

[LizzyM]

I would still be relatively early, yes.

The problem: Would you really want to take the MCAT with less than a month of prep?

You'd have 3 months of prep if you start today.

 

[I Love Cats]

My 4.0 would disappear for sure if I threw the beast into the mix. Transcript: AAAAAAA... x 40 then... BBBBB.

You make it seem so simple and doable.

 

[DAPI]

Is it possible to drop a course and replace that course time + study time w/ MCAT time? That way you could reivew the science stuff, which you already seem strong in, and hit the verbal hard. Then during May you could study full time and really get the BS/PS down and pray your VR us up by test day.

 

[I Love Cats]

If I dropped one, I may as well drop another (because they are for the same degree) and then forfeit one of my bachelor's degrees. Two W's? Strong finish to an undergrad?

 

[DAPI]

If I dropped one, I may as well drop another (because they are for the same degree) and then forfeit one of my bachelor's degrees. Two W's? Strong finish to an undergrad?

Well a major and a minor instead of a double major may be better than reapplying with an 8, getting rejected for a second year, and having to apply a 3rd time while retaking the MCAT anyways.... Just something to think about.

It may be okay to just say you lost interest in pursuing one of the majors and decided it would be best to reallocate your time elsewhere (aka the MCAT)