How tricky is the real thing?

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stitchattack

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I'm just curious if anyone can elaborate on how tricky the real deal is. I've been doing the AAMC FLs and did all the SAs and I felt like if you have a decent grasp of the content and know how to extrapolate info, you can do fairly well. I've been hearing that the real deal is harder than all the AAMC and TBR passages. I have 2 weeks left and my plan is to continue practicing and filling in gaps. Should I be doing anything else to get myself ready? Are the questions straight forward like the AAMC or are they not that clear?

Thanks!

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stitch do you have the official guide book? I've heard that those questions are good preparation, and people seem to work through it towards the end of their studying
 
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It's about the same difficulty as the official practices. If you do good on those using real test conditions, then you're golden.
 
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I'm just curious if anyone can elaborate on how tricky the real deal is. I've been doing the AAMC FLs and did all the SAs and I felt like if you have a decent grasp of the content and know how to extrapolate info, you can do fairly well. I've been hearing that the real deal is harder than all the AAMC and TBR passages. I have 2 weeks left and my plan is to continue practicing and filling in gaps. Should I be doing anything else to get myself ready? Are the questions straight forward like the AAMC or are they not that clear?

Thanks!

Real deal harder than TBR passages? I've always heard the opposite
 
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I wouldn't agree that the real deal is harder than the AAMC's or TBR passages. But it can comes across as different. Primarily, even more conceptual than 8 or 9 through 11. There is a shift that happens between 3-7 and 8-11 from specific, know-it-or-you-don't type questions to more applicable, broader stroke questions that focus on critical thinking. The real deal, in my opinion, can focus more on the latter than the later AAMC tests.
Harder? No, I don't think so.
Different? Can be.
 
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Thanks everyone for your input. I will continue practicing the AAMC questions and TBR/TPR as much as time permits.
 
I'm just curious if anyone can elaborate on how tricky the real deal is. I've been doing the AAMC FLs and did all the SAs and I felt like if you have a decent grasp of the content and know how to extrapolate info, you can do fairly well. I've been hearing that the real deal is harder than all the AAMC and TBR passages. I have 2 weeks left and my plan is to continue practicing and filling in gaps. Should I be doing anything else to get myself ready? Are the questions straight forward like the AAMC or are they not that clear?

Thanks!

False.
TBR passages are way harder.
Real deal takes more time than the AAMC ones do though mainly because of the length of the passages + more calculation-heavy problems. Its difficulty is the same as AAMC FLs.
 
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Just took one of the later MCATs and found the difficulty/questions were the same (at least in my opinion). The only difference was the scale was different.
 
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Out of the later tests, I've only done AAMC 7. I felt like it relied more on your understanding of the passage and extrapolating the info than on content so it's not heavily content based at all. I hope the later AAMCs are similar to it..including the real thing.
 
Out of the later tests, I've only done AAMC 7. I felt like it relied more on your understanding of the passage and extrapolating the info than on content so it's not heavily content based at all. I hope the later AAMCs are similar to it..including the real thing.
I did #10. I wrote in my thread about my thoughts on it. I felt that it wasn't too much different, just harsher scale.
 
I did #10. I wrote in my thread about my thoughts on it. I felt that it wasn't too much different, just harsher scale.

I guess same level of difficulty but slightly different scoring. I'm going to do it backwards..11, 10, then 9. I heard 9 is a confidence booster so I want to do it earlier on in the week before my test. If I don't do well on the 9 then well, may the MCAT gods have mercy on my soul on test day.
 
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I guess same level of difficulty but slightly different scoring. I'm going to do it backwards..11, 10, then 9. I heard 9 is a confidence booster so I want to do it earlier on in the week before my test. If I don't do well on the 9 then well, may the MCAT gods have mercy on my soul on test day.
what have you been scoring on your tests?
 
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Protip: Remain calm and focused during exam day. Make sure to take all your breaks and don't let performance in one section affect your composure in the later sections. You'll find that the MCAT isn't any more difficult than the practice AAMCs.
 
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Protip: Remain calm and focused during exam day. Make sure to take all your breaks and don't let performance in one section affect your composure in the later sections. You'll find that the MCAT isn't any more difficult than the practice AAMCs.

That. Take that 10 minutes to recharge and get ready for the next section.
 
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what have you been scoring on your tests?

For AAMC 7 I got 9/9/12 so 30...will be doing AAMC 11 tomorrow. I'll post that after I take it. My AAMC 3, I took over 2 months ago as a diagnostic and got a 7/6/7 = 20.
 
I have a question: I've been scoring 10's in Verbal and 9-10 in Organic Chemistry, 9's in Biology..etc. How does that translate to the real deal? For instance, someone had mentioned that AAMC is pretty generous when it comes to their practice exams. So, getting a 35/52 would be equivalent to a 10...so what about the actual MCAT? Would it be about the same?
 
I have a question: I've been scoring 10's in Verbal and 9-10 in Organic Chemistry, 9's in Biology..etc. How does that translate to the real deal? For instance, someone had mentioned that AAMC is pretty generous when it comes to their practice exams. So, getting a 35/52 would be equivalent to a 10...so what about the actual MCAT? Would it be about the same?
a 35/52 is more equivalent to an 8..and a 40/52 is a 10 (at least from the last 3 tests I took which were 3,4, and 10..with 10 being harsher on the scale).
 
Just finished AAMC 11. Not going to spoil it for you guys if you haven't done it yet. I'm guessing the feeling of defeat will be similar to how one feels after the real deal. Missed more than I did for AAMC 7 but the curve was more forgiving..got a 9/10/10. The VR seem easier..perhaps the passages were just more interesting to me.

My issue now lies in PS...and strengthening ochem :beat:
 
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Just finished AAMC 11. Not going to spoil it for you guys if you haven't done it yet. I'm guessing the feeling of defeat will be similar to how one feels after the real deal. Missed more than I did for AAMC 7 but the curve was more forgiving..got a 9/10/10. The VR seem easier..perhaps the passages were just more interesting to me.

My issue now lies in PS...and strengthening ochem :beat:
That's still a pretty solid score. I'd kill to score a 27 on the real deal lol
Did you feel the test was any different? I didn't really notice much a difference when I took #10.
Out of curiosity (if you keep track), of the q's you get wrong, what % do you get wrong for reasons like didn't apply what I know, made easy q hard, etc (like the q's you should've gotten right but didn't). Excluding Verbal (lol), I noticed a good 50% of q's I get wrong is due to this.
 
That's still a pretty solid score. I'd kill to score a 27 on the real deal lol
Did you feel the test was any different? I didn't really notice much a difference when I took #10.
Out of curiosity (if you keep track), of the q's you get wrong, what % do you get wrong for reasons like didn't apply what I know, made easy q hard, etc (like the q's you should've gotten right but didn't). Excluding Verbal (lol), I noticed a good 50% of q's I get wrong is due to this.

I'm not sure how much I trust this score because while I was doing it, I really didn't know for sure what the answer was for many of the ps/bs questions and made "educated" guesses. The passage length was not any different but I felt the questions were harder so it took me more time to answer. I was running out of time on the PS too. Also, I think AAMC 11 had many of the topics I've always been weak at which could be the reason why it was hard for me. At least going over the test will help me understand the topics better. The big difference I notice between AAMC 7 and 11 was that in 7, you can pretty much answer questions based on the passage but for 11, it's mainly critical thinking which is what I'm guessing the real deal will be like. I haven't gone over 11 yet but for 7 and the earlier tests I've done, my mistakes were mostly due to misreading the answers or questions. For VR, it seems I either get hard questions right more or about the same as mod questions.
 
I'm not sure how much I trust this score because while I was doing it, I really didn't know for sure what the answer was for many of the ps/bs questions and made "educated" guesses. The passage length was not any different but I felt the questions were harder so it took me more time to answer. I was running out of time on the PS too. Also, I think AAMC 11 had many of the topics I've always been weak at which could be the reason why it was hard for me. At least going over the test will help me understand the topics better. The big difference I notice between AAMC 7 and 11 was that in 7, you can pretty much answer questions based on the passage but for 11, it's mainly critical thinking which is what I'm guessing the real deal will be like. I haven't gone over 11 yet but for 7 and the earlier tests I've done, my mistakes were mostly due to misreading the answers or questions. For VR, it seems I either get hard questions right more or about the same as mod questions.

gotchya, Ill take 11 tomorrow and i'll see how it goes/post back here. If the Q's are similar to #10 (which I didn't notice a difference between the other tests I took even though its supposed to be 'different') then I should be able to tackle the science sections more slowly to avoid the stupid mistakes that I've noticed I've been making. I still dont expect to score as high as you lol (fingers crossed though)
 
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gotchya, Ill take 11 tomorrow and i'll see how it goes/post back here. If the Q's are similar to #10 (which I didn't notice a difference between the other tests I took even though its supposed to be 'different') then I should be able to tackle the science sections more slowly to avoid the stupid mistakes that I've noticed I've been making. I still dont expect to score as high as you lol (fingers crossed though)

From what I've read, 10 just has a harsher scale so it could be the same level of difficulty but the scale is not as forgiving. What makes me mad is when I miss discrete questions and I think I missed several in AAMC 11 because those are suppose to be sorta freebies since they're straight forward but I still miss them. I usually finish BS with 10-15 minutes to spare but not for PS. Even on AAMC 7, I barely finished PS in time. PS is suppose to be the easiest section to boost but I don't know why I'm still hoovering around 9 and I'm not sure what I can do in the next week and half to boost that up to a solid 10 (hoping!).

I'm sure you will do fine..just avoid making dumb mistakes like I do haha
 
I'm not sure how much I trust this score because while I was doing it, I really didn't know for sure what the answer was for many of the ps/bs questions and made "educated" guesses. The passage length was not any different but I felt the questions were harder so it took me more time to answer. I was running out of time on the PS too. Also, I think AAMC 11 had many of the topics I've always been weak at which could be the reason why it was hard for me. At least going over the test will help me understand the topics better. The big difference I notice between AAMC 7 and 11 was that in 7, you can pretty much answer questions based on the passage but for 11, it's mainly critical thinking which is what I'm guessing the real deal will be like. I haven't gone over 11 yet but for 7 and the earlier tests I've done, my mistakes were mostly due to misreading the answers or questions. For VR, it seems I either get hard questions right more or about the same as mod questions.

Just a friendly tip, you may want to pay attention to how often you are running short on time. Ideally, you should have a goal to set your pace on these practice exams so you have at least 5 minutes to spare at the end of them. On test day, when it counts you may move a little slower than on the practice exams. I know I was on average finishing physics with 10 minutes to spare, verbal with 5 minutes to spare, and biology with 20 minutes to spare. On the actual test I finished physics with 2 minutes left, verbal I went right to the end of the time, and biology I had about 15 minutes to spare. I would be careful about settle for finishing just in time on the practice.
 
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I just took AAMC#11. I think the results are horse**** (as in I did much better than I expected).

I got a 28 (10/10/8). I remember feeling OK about the PS section..felt it was def a step harder and tested me on stuff I was uncomfortable in so I got lucky with educated guesses. Verbal I felt like I did no better than my previous attempts...even felt lost...so I think a lot of luck was involved + I was rushed towards the end. The BS section I felt was much much harder, especially one of the later passages which really screwed me up as I had no idea how to interpret the figures. For the BS section, I think I got the score I deserved or slightly better. For PS/VR I think I got a much higher score than I deserved.

Although I scored the highest on this test, I feel like it was also the hardest test I took. It doesnt make sense to me that I scored a 10 on PS. VR was about the same difficulty (got a score I didnt deserve) and BS was much harder (got the score I ~deserved).

But yeah..my VR went from an average of 6 on the past 3 tests to a 10...yeah okay lol
 
I just took AAMC#11. I think the results are horse**** (as in I did much better than I expected).

I got a 28 (10/10/8). I remember feeling OK about the PS section..felt it was def a step harder and tested me on stuff I was uncomfortable in so I got lucky with educated guesses. Verbal I felt like I did no better than my previous attempts...even felt lost...so I think a lot of luck was involved + I was rushed towards the end. The BS section I felt was much much harder, especially one of the later passages which really screwed me up as I had no idea how to interpret the figures. For the BS section, I think I got the score I deserved or slightly better. For PS/VR I think I got a much higher score than I deserved.

Although I scored the highest on this test, I feel like it was also the hardest test I took. It doesnt make sense to me that I scored a 10 on PS. VR was about the same difficulty (got a score I didnt deserve) and BS was much harder (got the score I ~deserved).

But yeah..my VR went from an average of 6 on the past 3 tests to a 10...yeah okay lol

Congrats! Our scores are similar. Yea, that's exactly how I felt after taking it. When I got the score, I was like this does not seem right because I also made a lot of educated guesses. I was thinking I got around 7 for PS and BS. I think AAMC 11 is harder because for PS and BS, it tested us on topics that did not overlap with the other tests. Like if you've done the older AAMC and you did AAMC 7, you can see the overlap in the topics they test you on but for AAMC 11, the whole electrochem stuff (I'm horrible at it btw) and the ebola stuff...that just completely threw me off. Also, BS barely had any ochem..it focused so much on genetics/microbio imo.

VR was easier than the previous AAMCs imo. The passages were interesting and the questions/answer choices were straight forward. I think the VR sounds about where I am (hoping that stays true on the real deal).

I think the only way we can get a good estimate of our scores is by averaging tests 9-11 and average our breakdowns. I still don't buy that I could have gotten the score I did because for half the answers, I did not have a good feel for the answers like when you know the answer you pick is most likely correct feeling.
 
Congrats! Our scores are similar. Yea, that's exactly how I felt after taking it. When I got the score, I was like this does not seem right because I also made a lot of educated guesses. I was thinking I got around 7 for PS and BS. I think AAMC 11 is harder because for PS and BS, it tested us on topics that did not overlap with the other tests. Like if you've done the older AAMC and you did AAMC 7, you can see the overlap in the topics they test you on but for AAMC 11, the whole electrochem stuff (I'm horrible at it btw) and the ebola stuff...that just completely threw me off. Also, BS barely had any ochem..it focused so much on genetics/microbio imo.

VR was easier than the previous AAMCs imo. The passages were interesting and the questions/answer choices were straight forward. I think the VR sounds about where I am (hoping that stays true on the real deal).

I think the only way we can get a good estimate of our scores is by averaging tests 9-11 and average our breakdowns. I still don't buy that I could have gotten the score I did because for half the answers, I did not have a good feel for the answers like when you know the answer you pick is most likely correct feeling.

I suck at electrochem too :p
I was kind of hoping for more ochem actually haha. Not that Im great at ochem (my ochem scores have said otherwise some reason) I was getting sick of all the bio stuff and I appreciate the variety; helps my brain reset.
Yeah, that could be why I may have scored better on VR this time around. I'll have to take a look tomorrow because I was seriously blazing through the last 2-3 passages as I was short of time.
 
Just took a look at my test. I think I scored about as good as I could get on PS so no complaints here. Got a few silly Q's wrong but who doesn't. For BS...man...I noticed a good 75% of the q's I got wrong I had it boiled down to 2 answer choices and I guessed wrong basically every single time. Can't complain though because the generous VR score so it evened out! Found a couple silly mistakes in BS but whatevs. This test I really did a much better job of limiting the silly errors, not really sure what I did differently this time. The Ebola passage messed me up too. I think I got 1 right on that one and it was a gimme question haha.
 
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Just took a look at my test. I think I scored about as good as I could get on PS so no complaints here. Got a few silly Q's wrong but who doesn't. For BS...man...I noticed a good 75% of the q's I got wrong I had it boiled down to 2 answer choices and I guessed wrong basically every single time. Can't complain though because the generous VR score so it evened out! Found a couple silly mistakes in BS but whatevs. This test I really did a much better job of limiting the silly errors, not really sure what I did differently this time. The Ebola passage messed me up too. I think I got 1 right on that one and it was a gimme question haha.

I made silly mistakes..I think part of the reason why I miss main words in the passages could be due to the passage length and I guess feeling a bit overwhelmed which causes me to make dumb mistakes. Could have gotten at least 3 more questions right for PS. Have you done AAMC 5 VR? I felt that test had one of the more challenging VR. I only got 1 right for the ebola passage and it is the freebie question haha
 
I made silly mistakes..I think part of the reason why I miss main words in the passages could be due to the passage length and I guess feeling a bit overwhelmed which causes me to make dumb mistakes. Could have gotten at least 3 more questions right for PS. Have you done AAMC 5 VR? I felt that test had one of the more challenging VR. I only got 1 right for the ebola passage and it is the freebie question haha
nah I haven't. I might tackle that one tomorrow. Now I'm scared to take that VR lol
 
nah I haven't. I might tackle that one tomorrow. Now I'm scared to take that VR lol

I did really horrible in AAMC 5 VR. The passages are not hard to read but I feel the answer choices are pretty tricky like EK 101's. This is very discouraging.

Edit: Just reviewed the answers. I mainly screwed up on 2 passages and half the mistakes were due to overthinking. I guess I'm more in the "test mode" when I do it FL instead of individual sections/passages.
 
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What have you done since AAMC 3 that really bumped that score up?

Go over every single question whether you got it right or wrong. If it's on something you had to guess or on topics you're weak on, going back to learn about it to bridge any gaps in your content. Plus getting familiar with how AAMC asks is helpful..the SA package has tons of passages and questions so doing that will be beneficial.
 
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Be prepared for highly experimental passages on your BIO section. That section felt different to me than some of the older MCAT practice exams. Lot more extrapolation and interpretation than expected. That being said, the real test wasn't that much different from my practice exams.
 
Be prepared for highly experimental passages on your BIO section. That section felt different to me than some of the older MCAT practice exams. Lot more extrapolation and interpretation than expected. That being said, the real test wasn't that much different from my practice exams.

I felt AAMC 11 had a lot of experimental stuff..were they mainly stuff like that? Also if you're familiar with the way the experiments and graphs/tables are written like in journal articles, will that be sufficient or did you end up getting something that was weird. I felt the ebola table was hard for me to interpret..it could be I'm not familiar with virus type articles/tables and if that's the case, I'll have to brush up on it.
 
I felt AAMC 11 had a lot of experimental stuff..were they mainly stuff like that? Also if you're familiar with the way the experiments and graphs/tables are written like in journal articles, will that be sufficient or did you end up getting something that was weird. I felt the ebola table was hard for me to interpret..it could be I'm not familiar with virus type articles/tables and if that's the case, I'll have to brush up on it.
Yea I thought it was similar to aamc 11, and I would be sure to get good at interpreting graphs and tables from experiments and being able to analyze the results or determine what happens if you change a variable.
 
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@stitchattack : Completeed #5. I got a 27 (9/8/10). I recall a few in PS where I was like "ughh i should know this." For verbal, either I got lucky or I am getting better at it. If anything I thought it may have been a tad easier and I felt I was comprehending what I was reading a bit better. IIRC, my VR scores are 6,6,6, 10, and now an 8. That's some variability mate lol. As for BS, I can't even remember even though it was the most recent...brain is mush :*(
 
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@stitchattack : Completeed #5. I got a 27 (9/8/10). I recall a few in PS where I was like "ughh i should know this." For verbal, either I got lucky or I am getting better at it. If anything I thought it may have been a tad easier and I felt I was comprehending what I was reading a bit better. IIRC, my VR scores are 6,6,6, 10, and now an 8. That's some variability mate lol. As for BS, I can't even remember even though it was the most recent...brain is mush :*(

I think it's just to just take the average for all your tests for VR. As for the sciences, I feel the newer tests are going to be more representative of the real deal so take average for those? I'm doing AAMC 10 this weekend. I heard it's a confidence smasher and it'll be the last test I'll be taking before the real thing. eck!
 
Just a quick note for everyone from a person who took MCAT twice.
My PS was VERY VERY calculation-heavy and BS was VERY VERY verbal like. Almost every single bio passage was based on a weird experiment and it was LONGGGG. I was one of those unlucky ppl who had only one orgo passage so I had to do 6 long bio passages... Prepare yourselves for this. I had hard time with timing on the real thing even though I always had 10~20 mins left on AAMC FLs for PS and BS. But dont get me wrong. Difficulty is the same. It's just that the type of questions you will see on the real deal is pretty different and the passages are a bit longer.
 
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Just a quick note for everyone from a person who took MCAT twice.
My PS was VERY VERY calculation-heavy and BS was VERY VERY verbal like. Almost every single bio passage was based on a weird experiment and it was LONGGGG. I was one of those unlucky ppl who had only one orgo passage so I had to do 6 long bio passages... Prepare yourselves for this. I had hard time with timing on the real thing even though I always had 10~20 mins left on AAMC FLs for PS and BS. But dont get me wrong. Difficulty is the same. It's just that the type of questions you will see on the real deal is pretty different and the passages are a bit longer.

Any suggestion on what to do to get ready for those type of questions and getting through PS faster? Was VR any different like length wise and difficulty? I'm scared for PS...I usually go to the end for my practice with 2-3 min to spare but BS I usually have 10-15 min left.
 
Any suggestion on what to do to get ready for those type of questions and getting through PS faster? Was VR any different like length wise and difficulty? I'm scared for PS...I usually go to the end for my practice with 2-3 min to spare but BS I usually have 10-15 min left.

Surprisingly, VR passages were a lot easier to comprehend, but the questions were more difficult so I guess that evens out? Length was a bit longer too. For PS, I suggest doing a lot of calculation problems. Calculation-based problems on the real deal are NOT complex like the ones on TBR. They are just simply multiplication, division, etc, but LONGGGG.
 
Surprisingly, VR passages were a lot easier to comprehend, but the questions were more difficult so I guess that evens out? Length was a bit longer too. For PS, I suggest doing a lot of calculation problems. Calculation-based problems on the real deal are NOT complex like the ones on TBR. They are just simply multiplication, division, etc, but LONGGGG.

I thought AAMC 11 ps had quite a few calculation problems. Is the real deal a lot more than that? I felt 11 also had like 6 bio passages that were mainly experimental with weird tables and charts..guessing bs was like that too?
 
@stitchattack and @csx: How do you compare the AAMC # 11 BS with SA - BS . I found BS in SA to be verbalesque and a bit hard. Lots of stuff to read and interpret, deduct. I also noticed many passages based on observation of a physiological process, two hypothesis to explain that process, and then a lot of questions based on comparison of those hypothesis. Felt like SA BS was full of that particular style of question. Did you find that style reflected in AAMC # 11 as well ? I got 79% in BS SA but I wasn't happy as a lot of my answers were educated guesses......
 
They are just simply multiplication, division, etc, but LONGGGG.

What do you mean?
Do you mean problems such as one in which you would need to convert grams of reactants into moles and then decide which one is the limiting reagent and then use the mole amount of that reagent to determine the amount in grams of a product? That is about the most time-consuming problem I have seen on AAMC FL's. Are there one that involve more arithmetic steps than this on the real deal?
 
@stitchattack and @csx: How do you compare the AAMC # 11 BS with SA - BS . I found BS in SA to be verbalesque and a bit hard. Lots of stuff to read and interpret, deduct. I also noticed many passages based on observation of a physiological process, two hypothesis to explain that process, and then a lot of questions based on comparison of those hypothesis. Felt like SA BS was full of that particular style of question. Did you find those particular style of passages in AAMC # 11 as well ?

I thought AAMC 7 and 11 were different. I was able to answer most of the bs questions in 7 by reading the passage and general content knowledge but 11 relies a lot more on critical thinking, graph/chart interpretation, and understanding a bunch of unfamiliar topics and I didn't feel it focused a lot on content. On the SA Bio I scored 70% and on AAMC 7, I ended up with a 12 and 11 I got a 10 which equates to 71%. I guess what you end up on SA is around the range you'll get for your different sections?
 
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What do you mean?
Do you mean problems such as one in which you would need to convert grams of reactants into moles and then decide which one is the limiting reagent and then use the mole amount of that reagent to determine the amount in grams of a product? That is about the most time-consuming problem I have seen on AAMC FL's. Are there one that involve more arithmetic steps than this on the real deal?

Yes. Something like that. A few of the problems on my MCAT were longer than that. I suggest just skipping those + save for last.
 
I thought AAMC 11 ps had quite a few calculation problems. Is the real deal a lot more than that? I felt 11 also had like 6 bio passages that were mainly experimental with weird tables and charts..guessing bs was like that too?

Yeah a lot more. 11 is the closest, but it doesnt really represent the real thing well either lol.
But it depends on YOUR MCAT. My friends barely had any calculation problems while I did for both of my MCATs lol.
 
@brood910 : Sounds like I will be praying to the MCAT gods I dont get a calc heavy test. I SUCK at math based questions (outside basic manipulations), if I get a question wrong, its usually a math question

@sps27 : what stitchattack said. For #11 fortunately, the scale was very lenient. I got 32/52 which gave me an 8. A more common scale would have given me a lower score. There was a virus passage which you cant really prepare for that really messed me up and I only got the 'gimme' question right (you'll see what Im talking about). Granted overall, I made some very veeeeery dumb mistakes on BS which easily could've shot me up to +35/52 which could've given me a 9 or 10.

@stitchattack : yeah..IIRC #10 had a very unforgiving scale.
 
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