How useful are PhD degrees?

[sdn24]

So I'm wondering how useful would a PhD degree within the healthcare field right now compared to Pharmacy school?? I know that Pharmacy school could potentially be done after I finish my PhD but would that even be worth it? Should I do one over the other? I understand that the pharmacy profession is saturated right now but there are other things to take into consideration when it comes to that. I do think jobs will be available for a pharmacist but it may not be the job that you want. Like you may have to relocate. Fact is times have changed... Pharmacists aren't making 100 thousand straight out of pharmacy school now. My main issue is job security. I want to be doing something that I love to do for many years to come. There are options with both the PhD and pharmacy. I know that with a PharmD I coukd practice, teach or work in industry. With a PhD I could teach or work in industry. However the con of going into the pharmacy profession would be the massive student loan that I would aquire where as with the PhD I have funding.

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[pharmnrp804]

I think that depends on your ultimate goal. I've posted about this exact topic in the past, and my advice is the same. Both degrees have merit, but they compliment each other the most in an academic setting. Short answer, it depends on your ultimate goal. Decide where you want to be in 15 years, and then ask yourself if you need one or both degrees to get there.

 

[W19]

So I'm wondering how useful would a PhD degree within the healthcare field right now compared to Pharmacy school?? I know that Pharmacy school could potentially be done after I finish my PhD but would that even be worth it? Should I do one over the other? I understand that the pharmacy profession is saturated right now but there are other things to take into consideration when it comes to that. I do think jobs will be available for a pharmacist but it may not be the job that you want. Like you may have to relocate. Fact is times have changed... Pharmacists aren't making 100 thousand straight out of pharmacy school now. My main issue is job security. I want to be doing something that I love to do for many years to come. There are options with both the PhD and pharmacy. I know that with a PharmD I coukd practice, teach or work in industry. With a PhD I could teach or work in industry. However the con of going into the pharmacy profession would be the massive student loan that I would aquire where as with the PhD I have funding.

I know 3 people that get 100k+/year right out of school 2 years ago. They all have the opportunity to even make more than that if they are willing to work extra shift... The job market for PhD is not that good... I think some pharm schools have PharmD/PhD, which might be a good combo IMO.

Pharmacy guarantees a good middle class life. The market might not be good now, but until I see that pharmacist unemployment is above 6%, I am not willing to say it's all that bad... My friend who has been a pharmacist for 17 years just 'semi retired' at 42. He is only working 20 hrs/wk so he can still have some healthcare benefit and he is still earning 60k+... Not many professions offer that flexibility and have the luxury of making 60k+ working 20 hours/wk...

 

[sdn24]

I know 3 people that get 100k+/year right out of school 2 years ago. They all have the opportunity to even make more than that if they are willing to work extra shift... The job market for PhD is not that good... I think some pharm schools have PharmD/PhD, which might be a good combo IMO.

Pharmacy guarantees a good middle class life. The market might not be good now, but until I see that pharmacist unemployment is above 6%, I am not willing to say it's all that bad... My friend who has been a pharmacist for 17 years just 'semi retired' at 42. He is only working 20 hrs/wk so he can still have some healthcare benefit and he is still earning 60k+... Not many professions offer that flexibility and have the luxury of making 60k+ working 20 hours/wk...

Yes I don't think that pharmacy will get that bad. I guess I was hesitant to consider a career in pharmacy because of that. I really want a job where I know that I can live a good middle class life, pay back my student loans but also work until I'm ready to retire around age 60 or 65. While a PhD degree is good idk if I would have job security and plus after u finish your PhD you must complete a post doc which is more years added on to the time it took to complete your PhD

 

[sdn24]

I think that depends on your ultimate goal. I've posted about this exact topic in the past, and my advice is the same. Both degrees have merit, but they compliment each other the most in an academic setting. Short answer, it depends on your ultimate goal. Decide where you want to be in 15 years, and then ask yourself if you need one or both degrees to get there.

i can see myself possessing a pharmd degree which will allow me flexibility to do what I want. I just don't see myself researching day in and out and being in school 5 years or more and then having to complete a post doc after I complete my PhD.

 

[Doc Hawaii]

Sorry folks, for most, it's an average of 3 post-docs these days....goodluck landing that R23 grant!

 

[W19]

Sorry folks, for most, it's an average of 3 post-docs these days....goodluck landing that R23 grant!

That is insane!

 

[oldstock]

Sorry folks, for most, it's an average of 3 post-docs these days....goodluck landing that R23 grant!

dang...

 

[type b pharmD]

So I'm wondering how useful would a PhD degree within the healthcare field right now compared to Pharmacy school?? I know that Pharmacy school could potentially be done after I finish my PhD but would that even be worth it? Should I do one over the other? I understand that the pharmacy profession is saturated right now but there are other things to take into consideration when it comes to that. I do think jobs will be available for a pharmacist but it may not be the job that you want. Like you may have to relocate. Fact is times have changed... Pharmacists aren't making 100 thousand straight out of pharmacy school now. My main issue is job security. I want to be doing something that I love to do for many years to come. There are options with both the PhD and pharmacy. I know that with a PharmD I coukd practice, teach or work in industry. With a PhD I could teach or work in industry. However the con of going into the pharmacy profession would be the massive student loan that I would aquire where as with the PhD I have funding.

Unless you are doing md PhD , other healthcare PhDs are only good if you truly have a passion for it cause competition is fierce ! I was pondering an econ and also at one point a ceutics PhD but they are 5+ more years to get to the finish line, and at age 28 I was already too tired to continue school.

Pharmacists are starting at 115k-135k these days , which is not something to sneeze at, and the work is more uplifting imho than basically scrambling your butt and praying as hard as you can for grants and a job.

I am one year out of school and in my experience, pharmacists are making a lot more money and having more job offers in real life than they are on these boards..

 

[Rouelle]

i can see myself possessing a pharmd degree which will allow me flexibility to do what I want. I just don't see myself researching day in and out and being in school 5 years or more and then having to complete a post doc after I complete my PhD.

Then you have your answer...don't do a PhD.

A PhD is very useful (completely necessary) if you plan to do basic science research. If you plan to do academics at a pharmacy school, then you need either a PGY2 or a PhD. For most other pharmacy jobs, a PhD is not that useful.

I agree with type b, pretty much everyone in my current P4 class that wants to do retail already has a job offer on the table that is well above the $100K figure that you mentioned.

 

[Doc Hawaii]

Let's see....at my University, the average time to earning a Ph.D. in a hard science was 5.5 yrs (back in the early to mid-2000s). I knew of labs that would let their students graduate guaranteed in 4 yrs, and some that held their students for 7, or even 10 years. Even one case of the principle investigator (PI) convicted of child molestation, and his entire floor lab was shut down (>40 people are laid off). Students in his lab lost years, and started from scratch in another lab-think they were angry? Forget the letters that the NIH sent around to the PIs, telling them that their next distribution was going to be cut 10%. Post docs lost their jobs over those letters. There is NO stability, no matter how smart or good you are. You will eventually lose your grants, I've seen it happen to the smartest people on the planet. If it can happen to them, it CAN and WILL happen to you. What is the RO1 funding score cut-off now?

There is no compulsion making a PI graduate you. At my institute, we had 2 UK post-docs. They said there was a maximum time to graduate (I think it was 4 yrs), but most people finish in 3 yrs. The average age of a graduating PhD at my institution (top 25 research institution in the US), 32. Average age in the UK...24. Also, when I was interviewing for post-docs, one of the PIs said that the EU post-docs have their salary+travel money+supply money provided by the EU government, while US post-docs do not...I was literally asked, "Why should I take you, with no government funding, over a European?" He did offer me a spot in the lab though...despite him preferentially taking EU post-docs.

Maybe things have changed, but from what I can tell (and have been told from collegaues), it has gotten much worse. Everytime the government fights another war, there is less money made available for research grants. Companies will hire H1 visa scientists (who I found to be excellent), and pay them less and work them more. Just the way it is. Ask why are so few US citizens earning doctorates in science? Do you think education is a way out of 3rd world poverty?

Sorry for rambling, but I strongly urge you to speak to the shock troops/boots-on-the ground in the lab, and get the real scoop. Always ask if the PI is planning on staying or leaving. Even inquire about sabbitical-you might be all alone for a year. We had a saying, "Your PI is either 1) abusive, 2) neglectful, or both!" And, "Do you know how to tell when you are ready to graduate? How? When you want to literally want to punch your PI in the face every time you see them." Sad, but true.

 

[BMBiology]

All of this money being pumped into higher education was just another way to stimulate the economy. Now people are graduating and they can't find a job. But they are not defaulting on their loans because they are enrolled in income based repayment.

200 k in student loan debt and they are only paying $50 a month. Just wait until they get a huge tax bill from the IRS 20-25 years from now.

 

[sdn24]

Then you have your answer...don't do a PhD.

A PhD is very useful (completely necessary) if you plan to do basic science research. If you plan to do academics at a pharmacy school, then you need either a PGY2 or a PhD. For most other pharmacy jobs, a PhD is not that useful.

I agree with type b, pretty much everyone in my current P4 class that wants to do retail already has a job offer on the table that is well above the $100K figure that you mentioned.

Yes I know there are jobs available within the pharmacy profession but a residency or fellowship may have to be done afterwards. Even relocating to an unsaturated area would be an option. I'm just very skeptical about even pursuing a PhD based on several things ( time, money etc). Can't see myself in school for 5 years plus

 

[sdn24]

Let's see....at my University, the average time to earning a Ph.D. in a hard science was 5.5 yrs (back in the early to mid-2000s). I knew of labs that would let their students graduate guaranteed in 4 yrs, and some that held their students for 7, or even 10 years. Even one case of the principle investigator (PI) convicted of child molestation, and his entire floor lab was shut down (>40 people are laid off). Students in his lab lost years, and started from scratch in another lab-think they were angry? Forget the letters that the NIH sent around to the PIs, telling them that their next distribution was going to be cut 10%. Post docs lost their jobs over those letters. There is NO stability, no matter how smart or good you are. You will eventually lose your grants, I've seen it happen to the smartest people on the planet. If it can happen to them, it CAN and WILL happen to you. What is the RO1 funding score cut-off now?

There is no compulsion making a PI graduate you. At my institute, we had 2 UK post-docs. They said there was a maximum time to graduate (I think it was 4 yrs), but most people finish in 3 yrs. The average age of a graduating PhD at my institution (top 25 research institution in the US), 32. Average age in the UK...24. Also, when I was interviewing for post-docs, one of the PIs said that the EU post-docs have their salary+travel money+supply money provided by the EU government, while US post-docs do not...I was literally asked, "Why should I take you, with no government funding, over a European?" He did offer me a spot in the lab though...despite him preferentially taking EU post-docs.

Maybe things have changed, but from what I can tell (and have been told from collegaues), it has gotten much worse. Everytime the government fights another war, there is less money made available for research grants. Companies will hire H1 visa scientists (who I found to be excellent), and pay them less and work them more. Just the way it is. Ask why are so few US citizens earning doctorates in science? Do you think education is a way out of 3rd world poverty?

Sorry for rambling, but I strongly urge you to speak to the shock troops/boots-on-the ground in the lab, and get the real scoop. Always ask if the PI is planning on staying or leaving. Even inquire about sabbitical-you might be all alone for a year. We had a saying, "Your PI is either 1) abusive, 2) neglectful, or both!" And, "Do you know how to tell when you are ready to graduate? How? When you want to literally want to punch your PI in the face every time you see them." Sad, but true.

sounds harsh.....

 

[sdn24]

Unless you are doing md PhD , other healthcare PhDs are only good if you truly have a passion for it cause competition is fierce ! I was pondering an econ and also at one point a ceutics PhD but they are 5+ more years to get to the finish line, and at age 28 I was already too tired to continue school.

Pharmacists are starting at 115k-135k these days , which is not something to sneeze at, and the work is more uplifting imho than basically scrambling your butt and praying as hard as you can for grants and a job.

I am one year out of school and in my experience, pharmacists are making a lot more money and having more job offers in real life than they are on these boards..

yes I'm definitely considering it.., pharmacy has changed from what it used to be and I think it will continue to change. However the healthcare field in its entirety has changed.... Yes pharmacists are making what they used to make but there is still a good amount of money to be made. And you don't have to go the retail route..., there are other areas that can be explored in pharmacy

 

[BidingMyTime]

My main issue is job security.

Then between those 2 choices, Pharm.D. is for you. While the future is impossible to predict, the job security for a Pharm.D. is currently far, far, far higher, than for a Ph.D., and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

You mention which degree would be best in health care, outside of industry, a Ph.D. has very little value in healthcare. Even in administration, how you schmooze will benefit you far, far more, than and advanced degree.