How would you rank Pods 1-8

[medschool22]

Arizona
Barry
California
Des Moines
New York
Ohio
Scholl
Temple

thanks

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[Dr_Feelgood]

This thread has been brought up a few times. It is very difficult to determine and usually leads to more arguments than good. If you look back we had quite a discussion on this topic. But the heck with it, I'll give my stinky opinion but I'll use a tiered system.

Upper tier (in order)
CPMS-DMU
AZPOD***
Scholl
Temple

Lower Tier (in order)
NYCPM
OCPM
Barry
CSPM

***AZPOD is unproven. I set them as the second best school due to the structure of the curriculum alone. But they could easily go up or down after the votes are in. I think that they need at least 5 years to place them in any real order.

 

[gustydoc]

This thread has been brought up a few times. It is very difficult to determine and usually leads to more arguments than good. If you look back we had quite a discussion on this topic. But the heck with it, I'll give my stinky opinion but I'll use a tiered system.

Upper tier (in order)
CPMS-DMU
AZPOD***
Scholl
Temple

Lower Tier (in order)
NYCPM
OCPM
Barry
CSPM

***AZPOD is unproven. I set them as the second best school due to the structure of the curriculum alone. But they could easily go up or down after the votes are in. I think that they need at least 5 years to place them in any real order.

I agree. Maybe flip OCPM and NYCPM though.

 

[Podman]

I agree. Maybe flip OCPM and NYCPM though.

if you are basing your rankings purely on the first 2 years of basic sciences then i'd agree 100%. However, if you are looking at the overall quality after thr 4 yrs of schooling including the clinical rotations then i would put OCPM in top 4 and the rankings would be as follows:

1)Temple/DMU - both in the top
3)Scholl
4)OCPM
5)AZPOD
6)NYCPM
7)Barry
8)California

but then again this is just a subjective bias of course - it would be nice if schools released data about their board rates.

 

[whiskers]

This thread has been brought up a few times. It is very difficult to determine and usually leads to more arguments than good. If you look back we had quite a discussion on this topic. But the heck with it, I'll give my stinky opinion but I'll use a tiered system.

Upper tier (in order)
CPMS-DMU
AZPOD***
Scholl
Temple

Lower Tier (in order)
NYCPM
OCPM
Barry
CSPM

***AZPOD is unproven. I set them as the second best school due to the structure of the curriculum alone. But they could easily go up or down after the votes are in. I think that they need at least 5 years to place them in any real order.

In my opinion the lower tier schools can not compare with the upper tier schools regardless of how many students plead for their school's reputation thus attempting to enhance and give more credibility to the education that they are receiving.

If the schools want to better their reputation, they need to do a little more than indoctrinate their students about the quality of education offered by their institution.

It's one thing to say

Yes, Mr. residency director "My school is so great and I'm so smart because of it, trust me."

It's entirely different to be able to say,
"you know what, dr. residency director, my education sucked eggs I don't know half of the things I think I should know and I wouldn't do it again with that place.... but if you are patient I am willing to learn more from you and work twice as hard to be less deficient, for my own sake as well as your program."

I think that one of the down falls of students applying to residency positions and really people in general is that they are afraid to admit their weaknesses. Instead they brag themselves up and down the block and masquerade as intellectual meat without fault....

There really isn't anything wrong with not knowing something and many times it's not your fault. Really.

 

[IlizaRob]

it would be nice if schools released data about their board rates.

Another thing that we should do is stop having pass/fail board scores. Since curriculums differ at every school and a 3.5 gpa is different at one instution from another, board scores is the only way residencies or anyone can really compare students on an equal level. Its ridiculous that there isnt a specific score. Where is the motivation to study your rears off for boards? I think that would give some of the schools a little kick in the pants to "up" their standards. What do you guys think? Maybe some of the political gurus can enlighten us on the past student political debates regarding this subject such as Gusty and Krab.

 

[mrfeet]

This thread has been brought up a few times. It is very difficult to determine and usually leads to more arguments than good. If you look back we had quite a discussion on this topic. But the heck with it, I'll give my stinky opinion but I'll use a tiered system.

Upper tier (in order)
CPMS-DMU
AZPOD***
Scholl
Temple

Lower Tier (in order)
NYCPM
OCPM
Barry
CSPM

***AZPOD is unproven. I set them as the second best school due to the structure of the curriculum alone. But they could easily go up or down after the votes are in. I think that they need at least 5 years to place them in any real order.

I have to agree with Dr. Feelgood's rankings, but what I find interesting is that these rankings are consistent with almost everyone else. DMU, Scholl, AZPOD, and Temple most always seem to be in the upper tier, with OCPM, NYCPM, Barry, and CSPM being in the lower tier.

HMMM, isn't it interesting that the top tier schools are all apart of either allopathic or osteopathic schools, and the lower tier schools are not. This brings me back to my aforementioned point: PODIATRIC MEDICAL SCHOOLS NEED TO BE AFFILIATED WITH ALLOPATHIC OR OSTEOPATHIC SCHOOLS! I am a firm believer that we should maintain our heritage and unique status with the DPM degree, but we need to be trained along side MD's and DO's if we ever want to achieve equal status and gain better benefits, such as equal pay for equal work!

Just my two cents.

 

[Podman]

Another thing that we should do is stop having pass/fail board scores. Since curriculums differ at every school and a 3.5 gpa is different at one instution from another, board scores is the only way residencies or anyone can really compare students on an equal level. Its ridiculous that there isnt a specific score. Where is the motivation to study your rears off for boards? I think that would give some of the schools a little kick in the pants to "up" their standards. What do you guys think? Maybe some of the political gurus can enlighten us on the past student political debates regarding this subject such as Gusty and Krab.

I couldn't agree more. If anything, I'd rather have our classes pass/fail and receive actual graded scores on the board exams. GPAs can be very misleading especially with the level of inconsistency in the classes taught across the 8 schools. I think this will upgrade the quality and value of our basic sciences because it would force all the "lower tier" schools to kick it up a few notches. At the same time, this would be the only legit way that we can compare the level of one student from school "A" to another from school "B" after the first 2 years.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

The top two schools are AZPOD and DMU. There is no question about this.

Due to the type of association each of these has with osteopathic medical schools, they are at the top and can be compared with no other podiatry schools fairly.

AZCOM (AZPOD's associate DO school) is the top DO program in the country due to residency placement, 100% board pass rate for the past 6 years (no other schools have even come close), and quality of education, which unfortunately comes out of the students' pockets (higher salaries for better faculty). AZPOD students take all of the same classes minus OMM classes. There's no doubt that the basic science years (I and II) are better at AZPOD than all other schools. However, CPMS (DMU) is doing well enough to score 100% or upper 90's on the boards for the past few years, and is an excellent institution, in this regards.

As far as clinical years (III and IV) go, I have it on good report that CPMS is problem-based with exceptional integration among the clinical faculty for rotations. AZPOD is much different and follows a more traditional MD/DO rotation pattern. Undoubtedly, CPMS's problem-based format is more effective and I think better, marginally.

I agree with Feelgood. It will be a couple of years before a full comparison can be made. Right now, AZPOD's basic science is marginally better and CPMS's clinical years are marginally better. Both are excellent schools and both are trendsetters!

AZPOD Rocks

 

[gustydoc]

Right now, AZPOD's basic science is marginally better and CPMS's clinical years are marginally better. [/QUOTE]

I appreciate your enthusiasm for your school and I agree that AZPOD is probably one of the best schools besides DMU, but I think I'd wait two more months until after boards to claim a better basic science cirriculum. My predicition is that the AZPOD students score above the national average, but I guess we will have to wait and see. By the way how is studying for boards going down there? I would think it would be a little harder with no upperclassmen to ask for advice.

 

[gustydoc]

Another thing that we should do is stop having pass/fail board scores. Since curriculums differ at every school and a 3.5 gpa is different at one instution from another, board scores is the only way residencies or anyone can really compare students on an equal level. Its ridiculous that there isnt a specific score. Where is the motivation to study your rears off for boards? I think that would give some of the schools a little kick in the pants to "up" their standards. What do you guys think? Maybe some of the political gurus can enlighten us on the past student political debates regarding this subject such as Gusty and Krab.

This topic did come up in Orlando at the national conference, but I believe the discussion was tabled. I plan on bringing it up in August and I will be sure to let you know if the APMSA manages to take an official stance on the subject. I really hope everyone decides to get on board with this issue because I cannot think of a single good reason why we should remain the only medical profession (MD/DO) where how did doesn't matter as long as you pass.

 

[capo]

How do residency directors gauge a student then? Isn't this really an advantage for lower-tiered students becuz, they just need to pass and no one knows they barely did. But it's also not much incentive, if this is the case, to studying hard or learning much as no matter how well you do as long as you pass you're into a decent residency. Or am I way off base here?

 

[whiskers]

How do residency directors gauge a student then? Isn't this really an advantage for lower-tiered students becuz, they just need to pass and no one knows they barely did. But it's also not much incentive, if this is the case, to studying hard or learning much as no matter how well you do as long as you pass you're into a decent residency. Or am I way off base here?

In my opinion, it's an advantage and if you attend one of the better schools you are disadvantaged. Imagine having a 2.94gpa at a upper tier school and not being able to apply to certain residency programs while your less motivated cousin from a lower tier school with a 3.0 gets to apply and at least get considered. Grade inflation at any of the schools, to me, hurts the entire profession. This says nothing about the differences between a 3.2 upper tier and a 3.8 lower tier....

Plus won't that be fun picking up the intellectual slack from years of potential bad habits? Three years is a long time and then maybe some of you will better understand my POV!

Everyone will probably have to deal with these folks eventually, so I guess I shouldn't feel so alone. Fortunately, for me, I already know the deal.

 

[capo]

In my opinion, it's an advantage and if you attend one of the better schools you are disadvantaged. Imagine having a 2.94gpa at a upper tier school and not being able to apply to certain residency programs while your less motivated cousin from a lower tier school with a 3.0 gets to apply and at least get considered. Grade inflation at any of the schools, to me, hurts the entire profession. This says nothing about the differences between a 3.2 upper tier and a 3.8 lower tier....

Plus won't that be fun picking up the intellectual slack from years of potential bad habits? Three years is a long time and then maybe some of you will better understand my POV!

Everyone will probably have to deal with these folks eventually, so I guess I shouldn't feel so alone. Fortunately, for me, I already know the deal.

Ok, so then all I need do is sqeak by in pod school and then get my MBA and rake in the cash, huh?

 

[whiskers]

Ok, so then all I need do is sqeak by in pod school and then get my MBA and rake in the cash, huh?

In this profession, I find very little advantage of having a 4.0 compared to a 3.1 other than impressing mom and dad and your friends at the bar.

The 3.1 podiatrist will do the exact same medical things at the same price that the 4.0. Plus, the 3.1 could very well make more money since GPA in no way shape or form equates to earning potential in podiatry.

All you need is a degree and pass your boards. Then you're set.

And while the 4.0 student at upper tier school X busted their bunions and brains, be assured that there are plenty of students getting by and having fun in the process who will be just fine.

Maybe the 4.0 student from upper tier X put in all that work so that he could help all those less motivated student from other less known universitiesy get through residency?

Hehe.

 

[gustydoc]

How do residency directors gauge a student then? Isn't this really an advantage for lower-tiered students becuz, they just need to pass and no one knows they barely did. But it's also not much incentive, if this is the case, to studying hard or learning much as no matter how well you do as long as you pass you're into a decent residency. Or am I way off base here?

It is frustrating that people are able to eek by just barely passing boards, but hopefully this will change. As far as the problem with a 3.0 at an excellent school being equivalent to a 4.0 at a poor school most residency directors are aware of this. Each year programs come and visit our school to talk to students and even programs with GPA requirements comment on how they are willing to waive the requirement for students from certain schools. Really when you think about it your grades are only as important as getting you your externships. Once you have been accepted to do an externship at a program the playing field is essentially leveled and the program is yours to win or loose. That is why I love the fact that we are able to spend our entire fourth year externing at programs we may want to end up at. Each one month externship is basically an extended interview . If you had a great GPA (at a lousy school) but didn't learn much the residents and directors are going to see right through you. So even though it would be easier to just make board scores available to residencies they have found a way through the externship process to determine who they want at their program. This is the main reason why in other threads I have talked about how important it is to choose a school that has a challenging program AND allows you to spend as much time as possible during your fourth year out at programs. At DMU you spend a four month core at one program and then can spend the rest of the year visiting all the rest of the programs you plan on applying to. I don't care what grades you have, when you sit down to interview in December and that residency director has seen you in action for at least a month he/she knows whether or not you have what it takes and if they want you to come work with them for the next three years or not.

 

[Podman]

The top two schools are AZPOD and DMU. There is no question about this.

Due to the type of association each of these has with osteopathic medical schools, they are at the top and can be compared with no other podiatry schools fairly.

AZCOM (AZPOD's associate DO school) is the top DO program in the country due to residency placement, 100% board pass rate for the past 6 years (no other schools have even come close), and quality of education, which unfortunately comes out of the students' pockets (higher salaries for better faculty). AZPOD students take all of the same classes minus OMM classes. There's no doubt that the basic science years (I and II) are better at AZPOD than all other schools. However, CPMS (DMU) is doing well enough to score 100% or upper 90's on the boards for the past few years, and is an excellent institution, in this regards.

As far as clinical years (III and IV) go, I have it on good report that CPMS is problem-based with exceptional integration among the clinical faculty for rotations. AZPOD is much different and follows a more traditional MD/DO rotation pattern. Undoubtedly, CPMS's problem-based format is more effective and I think better, marginally.

I agree with Feelgood. It will be a couple of years before a full comparison can be made. Right now, AZPOD's basic science is marginally better and CPMS's clinical years are marginally better. Both are excellent schools and both are trendsetters!

AZPOD Rocks

With all due respect sir, AZPOD just recently opened up so it is still impossible assess their student's clinical performance or level on a national scale just yet. I am sure that they have an excellent curriculum but the clinical years have yet to be tested. Bare in mind that there are "older" schools who hold a very strong reputation in clinical performance: Scholl, Temple, Ohio, and DMU specifically. I do recognize that Arizona has a great setup and a very strong curriculum but you can't rank them on top of other schools who have a long continuous history of graduating some of the best DPMs in the country just yet.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

With all due respect sir, AZPOD just recently opened up so it is still impossible assess their student's clinical performance or level on a national scale just yet. I am sure that they have an excellent curriculum but the clinical years have yet to be tested. Bare in mind that there are "older" schools who hold a very strong reputation in clinical performance: Scholl, Temple, Ohio, and DMU specifically. I do recognize that Arizona has a great setup and a very strong curriculum but you can't rank them on top of other schools who have a long continuous history of graduating some of the best DPMs in the country just yet.

I have no desire to offend you, or anyone else. The third years are just beginning their clinical rotations, so I can see why you would find me presumptuous for making such bold claims about their clinical stability.

About the first two years, no argument can be made. AZPOD students have taken all of the same curriculum as AZCOM students and done well. AZCOM has stronger basic science curriculum than any other affiliate school associated with podiatry schools.

However, the clinical rotations are set up based on AZCOM's rotation relationships and their quality is exceptional. This is why I make such bold statements. I do not doubt that other podiatric medical schools have produced individuals at the forefront of podiatry. AZPOD's outstanding program was made possible only through this. However, "some of the best DPM's in the country" got together and established a school which is solid from the get-go and which will be the model for all other podiatry schools in but a few years.

Saying these things does not slight your school at all. The newest member of our faculty is an Ohio graduate and completed the reputable 3-year INOVA residency (an absolutely amazing program). So, I recognize the determined efforts of each podiatry school to produce fine podiatrists.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[mrfeet]

The top two schools are AZPOD and DMU. There is no question about this.
Due to the type of association each of these has with osteopathic medical schools, they are at the top and can be compared with no other podiatry schools fairly.

AZCOM (AZPOD's associate DO school) is the top DO program in the country due to residency placement, 100% board pass rate for the past 6 years (no other schools have even come close), and quality of education, which unfortunately comes out of the students' pockets (higher salaries for better faculty). AZPOD students take all of the same classes minus OMM classes. There's no doubt that the basic science years (I and II) are better at AZPOD than all other schools. However, CPMS (DMU) is doing well enough to score 100% or upper 90's on the boards for the past few years, and is an excellent institution, in this regards.

As far as clinical years (III and IV) go, I have it on good report that CPMS is problem-based with exceptional integration among the clinical faculty for rotations. AZPOD is much different and follows a more traditional MD/DO rotation pattern. Undoubtedly, CPMS's problem-based format is more effective and I think better, marginally.

I agree with Feelgood. It will be a couple of years before a full comparison can be made. Right now, AZPOD's basic science is marginally better and CPMS's clinical years are marginally better. Both are excellent schools and both are trendsetters!

AZPOD Rocks

Well, ofcourse there is a question about this! You guys haven't even graduated a class as of yet. You have no established reputation with residency programs. Listen folks, curriculum is not the end all be all! Clinical training truly makes us the doctors we are. Don't get me wrong, our knowledge is important, but one of the finest physicians that I know is a graduate of St. George's in Grenada. AZPod folks really need to not put the horse before the carriage and wait a couple of years until classes have graduated and performed in the real world.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

Right now, AZPOD's basic science is marginally better and CPMS's clinical years are marginally better.

By the way how is studying for boards going down there? I would think it would be a little harder with no upperclassmen to ask for advice.[/QUOTE]

They are preparing for the USMLE and including lower extremity, too. All of the upper classmen in the DO program are helping them. Each is capable of taking and passing the USMLE but, of course, they won't be given the opportunity. Their pass rate will be 100% on the NBPME. The results will be in very soon to confirm my prediction. If I am wrong, laugh away!

AZPOD Rocks

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

I love stirring up the dust!

By the way, each class (year) has lost several students due to failure... due to difficulty of course curriculum. I sincerely hope I am not one of them (I am honestly fearful)! However, several podiatry schools, which will remain nameless, have graciously recruited those who were kicked out of AZPOD. Some of you will be able to ask them yourself about AZPOD when they get there for Fall commencement.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[capo]

ANY school will get you where you want to go (simply, an opportunity to take the boards) -- some just help prepare you better. But in the end, YOU must do the work no matter where you go. How bad do YOU want it? At every and any institution, there are those who do well and succeed and those who do not and fail.

Much of this depends on your work ethic and what you bring to the table. The ranking stuff is for the birds. Certainly schools can point you in the right direction but will NOT do the work FOR you. Harvard grads are eating out of dumpsters in some cases, while community college grads and college dropouts like Bill Gates own half the world.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

ANY school will get you where you want to go (simply, an opportunity to take the boards) -- some just help prepare you better. But in the end, YOU must do the work no matter where you go. How bad do YOU want it? At every and any institution, there are those who do well and succeed and those who do not and fail. Certainly schools can point you in the right direction but will NOT do the work FOR you.

Excellent points!!!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I love stirring up the dust!

By the way, each class (year) has lost several students due to failure... due to difficulty of course curriculum. I sincerely hope I am not one of them (I am honestly fearful)! However, several podiatry schools, which will remain nameless, have graciously recruited those who were kicked out of AZPOD. Some of you will be able to ask them yourself about AZPOD when they get there for Fall commencement.

AZPOD Rocks

I don't look at those failed students as badges proving your worth but maybe scars proving your insufficency.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

I don't look at those failed students as badges proving your worth but maybe scars proving your insufficency.

I don't look at failed students as badges of worth, either. I do think they indicate an extremely challenging program. Certainly not inadequacy as your post indicates. If you substitute the word "inefficiency" for "insufficiency," I agree with your post entirely. It was inefficient to accept students with lower academic criteria who would just fail out. It has hurt the institution because of less tuition money coming in but, more importantly, hurt the students because of the high price of time and money they invested into something they weren't suited to complete from the beginning.

The now second years had higher mean stats upon entrance and had a much lower failure rate. This coming year has even higher stats and I hope this will translate into fewer failures in the program. The average GPA of those accepted for August is 3.5 and a 27 on the MCAT. Hopefully, this will resolve the issues that had so many students failing.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[krabmas]

I do not think the "lower" tiered schools prepare students bettor or worse for the boards. I think it all starts with whom they accept.

The schools that accept all with a pulse and do not kick them out even after several failures or many chances to pass the same class these are the schools and students that will have problems passing the boards.

I still agree it is best to go to a better school than not.

 

[krabmas]

as for the political side of things...

The APMSA meetings are really "political" and it seems to me from my year of observations (2 metings) that people are more concerned with themselves and what is in their best interest (singularly) than what would be best for the advancement of the profession.

So if some one brings up this topic but does not have the backing of certain people the issue will be tabled and never discussed or voted against.

It is sad and difficult to make progress there but we try.

I agree that board scores should be numbered like the MD/DOs do then the interviews could be more personal.

 

[Podman]

as for the political side of things...

The APMSA meetings are really "political" and it seems to me from my year of observations (2 metings) that people are more concerned with themselves and what is in their best interest (singularly) than what would be best for the advancement of the profession.

So if some one brings up this topic but does not have the backing of certain people the issue will be tabled and never discussed or voted against.

It is sad and difficult to make progress there but we try.

I agree that board scores should be numbered like the MD/DOs do then the interviews could be more personal.

I can definately agree with that observation. Unfortunately what is slowing down our progress is our very own. Many politics are involved and too many "bad apples" are concerned for their own good instead of the benefit of the profession as a whole. To me, the loss of Dr. Gerard Yu in my opinion was a major set-back because not only was he a great man in our profession but in fact one of the few who actually cared to progress this profession forward.

I sadly see this trend transcending to our very own student bodies. I can't speak on behalf of every school but I'll speak from my own experience. Unfortunately, I see alot of people involved with student activities and research and all that great "resume building" stuff not for the benefit of the student body, or the profession, but rather for the mere sake of promoting themselves on a CV or resume prior to externships and rotations. Once these personal agendas are attained, everything is forgotten and the torch is passed on to the next egotistical candidate who will again continue this cycle of building a CV for personal agendas with no intentions to really leave a mark for this profession at all...

of course, I don't want to sound like a pessimist or "whiskers" as these politics and selfish attitudes exist in every profession - but unfortunately with our already small profession (15,000 pods), these problems become more visible and magnified.

I hope with our new higher standards in training and opportunities, our future APMA and professional leaders can learn from the mistakes of our predescesors and work collectively for the benefit of our great profession. We have many challenges ahead of us as furture professoinals but I believe our generation can definately build something special with opportunities in research, and collaboration with other great physicians for the benefit of medicine.

 

[jonwill]

How do residency directors gauge a student then? Isn't this really an advantage for lower-tiered students becuz, they just need to pass and no one knows they barely did. But it's also not much incentive, if this is the case, to studying hard or learning much as no matter how well you do as long as you pass you're into a decent residency. Or am I way off base here?

For most programs, residency directors gauge students by their performance during their rotation at the program. The point of a clerkship is two fold: 1) students get to see the program and 2) programs get to see potential residents. You'll find that most programs choose residents from their clerkship pool. This is not always the case (especially if a program doesn't really like anyone that rotated there) but a program would much rather pick someone based on a month rather than a piece of paper and an interview.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I agree that accepting higher level students will make schools appear better. But what impresses me and makes me say that schools is great is how do they carry their lower students. CPMS has the same stats as the rest of the country 3.3 and a 22, but they get everyone across the finish line. That means that they aren't "cutting the fat" if you will. The curriculum is taught in a manner that everyone is elevated to a higher educational standard. That is a mark of a solid institution and say that our lost colleagues are scars not badges. I cannot say that I know what the MCAT and GPA was for all of the students that failed CPMS. I have mentioned before that according to the CPMS self studies that Dr Yoho does every year, physical science scores, NOT overall MCAT or GPA scores, is the best predictor of a student passing or failing at CPMS.The other two "common" traits of a student who struggles is a non-traditional male student.

To get back to my point, isn't the best school in the country the one that has such good curriculum that everyone succeeds?

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

I agree that accepting higher level students will make schools appear better. But what impresses me and makes me say that schools is great is how do they carry their lower students. CPMS has the same stats as the rest of the country 3.3 and a 22, but they get everyone across the finish line. That means that they aren't "cutting the fat" if you will. The curriculum is taught in a manner that everyone is elevated to a higher educational standard. That is a mark of a solid institution and say that our lost colleagues are scars not badges. I cannot say that I know what the MCAT and GPA was for all of the students that failed CPMS. I have mentioned before that according to the CPMS self studies that Dr Yoho does every year, physical science scores, NOT overall MCAT or GPA scores, is the best predictor of a student passing or failing at CPMS.The other two "common" traits of a student who struggles is a non-traditional male student.

To get back to my point, isn't the best school in the country the one that has such good curriculum that everyone succeeds?

Very soon, I will have a master's degree in education so have somewhat of a background in the area you are bringing up.

Don't start out thinking that I disagree with you, because I don't. I believe that being able to reach and teach even the poor students is the mark of an excellent faculty geared towards true education (i.e. - true communication of the material). So, I agree in that sense.

However, take a look at the top MD programs in the country and you will see that the SCIENCE of medicine is taught to such a level that those without excellent undergraduate experience would not be able to cope, much less excel. There are some people who do not belong in medicine based on their inability to master the SCIENCE of medicine. This is an absolute must if you are going to be placed into such a position of responsibility!

That being said, I don't have any doubts that the ART of medicine is taught better by faculty who make sure even the least of students is able to succeed. Just by this very act, they are teaching this ART. These are people who truly care about others, that know how to interact with others in a motivational way, and who have developed such an art themselves.

The best school of medicine (podiatric or otherwise) would include a set of faculty who are triumphant at teaching both the ART and the SCIENCE of medicine to their students.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[mrfeet]

Very soon, I will have a master's degree in education so have somewhat of a background in the area you are bringing up.

Don't start out thinking that I disagree with you, because I don't. I believe that being able to reach and teach even the poor students is the mark of an excellent faculty geared towards true education (i.e. - true communication of the material). So, I agree in that sense.

However, take a look at the top MD programs in the country and you will see that the SCIENCE of medicine is taught to such a level that those without excellent undergraduate experience would not be able to cope, much less excel. There are some people who do not belong in medicine based on their inability to master the SCIENCE of medicine. This is an absolute must if you are going to be placed into such a position of responsibility!

That being said, I don't have any doubts that the ART of medicine is taught better by faculty who make sure even the least of students is able to succeed. Just by this very act, they are teaching this ART. These are people who truly care about others, that know how to interact with others in a motivational way, and who have developed such an art themselves.

The best school of medicine (podiatric or otherwise) would include a set of faculty who are triumphant at teaching both the ART and the SCIENCE of medicine to their students.

AZPOD Rocks

Well put!!!

 

[poormansDO]

official Podiatry School Rankings:

1.DMUCPMS
2.SCPM
3.TUSPM
4.AZPOD
5.OCPM
6.NYCPM
7.BUGMS
8.CSPM

enjoy the rankings . Good luck.

 

[IlizaRob]

official Podiatry School Rankings:

1.DMUCPMS
2.SCPM
3.TUSPM
4.AZPOD
5.OCPM
6.NYCPM
7.BUGMS
8.CSPM

enjoy the rankings . Good luck.

Uh oh, the can has been reopened yet again.

 

[whiskers]

official Podiatry School Rankings:

1.DMUCPMS
2.SCPM
3.TUSPM
4.AZPOD
5.OCPM
6.NYCPM
7.BUGMS
8.CSPM

enjoy the rankings . Good luck.

Schools 1-4 on one piece of paper..... and 5-8 on a used napkin?


If I am to rank them again, I'd be certain to place 1-4 on one post and then make a separate post for 5-8. Like this...

1. DMU
1. Temple
1. AZ
1. Scholl

______________________________________________________________

The Great Ether Zone Divide...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
_________________________________________________________________

 

[whiskers]

Schools 1-4 on one piece of paper..... and 5-8 on a used napkin?

If I am to rank them again, I'd be certain to place 1-4 on one post and then make a separate post for 5-8. Like this...

1. DMU
1. Temple
1. AZ
1. Scholl

________________________________________________________________
Then another great ether zone divide
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
_________________________________________________________________

Then the others...

8. barry
8. Cali
8. ocpm
8. nycpm

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Very soon, I will have a master's degree in education so have somewhat of a background in the area you are bringing up.

Don't start out thinking that I disagree with you, because I don't. I believe that being able to reach and teach even the poor students is the mark of an excellent faculty geared towards true education (i.e. - true communication of the material). So, I agree in that sense.

However, take a look at the top MD programs in the country and you will see that the SCIENCE of medicine is taught to such a level that those without excellent undergraduate experience would not be able to cope, much less excel. There are some people who do not belong in medicine based on their inability to master the SCIENCE of medicine. This is an absolute must if you are going to be placed into such a position of responsibility!

That being said, I don't have any doubts that the ART of medicine is taught better by faculty who make sure even the least of students is able to succeed. Just by this very act, they are teaching this ART. These are people who truly care about others, that know how to interact with others in a motivational way, and who have developed such an art themselves.

The best school of medicine (podiatric or otherwise) would include a set of faculty who are triumphant at teaching both the ART and the SCIENCE of medicine to their students.

AZPOD Rocks

I agree that this is very well put. I also do not disagree that as a profession we need to increase our level of expectations. I have personally been discussing the issue of CPMS only accepting the MCAT score (I've been pushing my will upon those in admissions ). I think that if we started, that the other top programs will follow. With the big boys on board, applicants can then start asking the question, "Why do the top programs only accept the MCAT and the lower schools accept anything?"

Gusty, if you are reading this, I think this is a great issue to bring up to Yoho. I don't know about bring the resolution to the student body, unless Yoho would like to see if it is supported.

 

[gustydoc]

I agree that this is very well put. I also do not disagree that as a profession we need to increase our level of expectations. I have personally been discussing the issue of CPMS only accepting the MCAT score (I've been pushing my will upon those in admissions ). I think that if we started, that the other top programs will follow. With the big boys on board, applicants can then start asking the question, "Why do the top programs only accept the MCAT and the lower schools accept anything?"

Gusty, if you are reading this, I think this is a great issue to bring up to Yoho. I don't know about bring the resolution to the student body, unless Yoho would like to see if it is supported.

Funny you should bring this issue up. I was just telling Hodson about how I plan on presenting a resolution at the fall APMSA meeting to see if we can make this an across the board action for all schools. Ultimately this is not something that can be decided upon by the student body at a state level, but we certainly can continue to let it be known we want the change to occur. If the resolution passes at the House of Delegates meeting we will be able to return to our deans with the message that all podiatric medical students are in agreement that there needs to be a standard in admissions testing. I will definitely keep you posted on how things turn out.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Funny you should bring this issue up. I was just telling Hodson about how I plan on presenting a resolution at the fall APMSA meeting to see if we can make this an across the board action for all schools. Ultimately this is not something that can be decided upon by the student body at a state level, but we certainly can continue to let it be known we want the change to occur. If the resolution passes at the House of Delegates meeting we will be able to return to our deans with the message that all podiatric medical students are in agreement that there needs to be a standard in admissions testing. I will definitely keep you posted on how things turn out.

I've been working on our admissions counselor (no names) and she is whole heartly behind a change, but of course the decisions is Yoho's.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

AZPOD's director of admissions let me know that AZPOD will probably not accept anything other than the MCAT next year and will probably set a higher GPA application requirement due to the quality of admitted students' stats this year.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[IlizaRob]

AZPOD's director of admissions let me know that AZPOD will probably not accept anything other than the MCAT next year and will probably set a higher GPA application requirement due to the quality of admitted students' stats this year.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[Podman]

I agree that this is very well put. I also do not disagree that as a profession we need to increase our level of expectations. I have personally been discussing the issue of CPMS only accepting the MCAT score (I've been pushing my will upon those in admissions ). I think that if we started, that the other top programs will follow. With the big boys on board, applicants can then start asking the question, "Why do the top programs only accept the MCAT and the lower schools accept anything?"

Gusty, if you are reading this, I think this is a great issue to bring up to Yoho. I don't know about bring the resolution to the student body, unless Yoho would like to see if it is supported.

All podiatry schools should hold and maintain a similar standard - we're too small of a profession to allow for parity within "top" and "not so top" schools. I agree that MCATs should be minimum requirements with minimum scores of 23.

The main thing is that we need a standard maintained and upheld by all the schools and more emphasis should be given to the board scores as we've previously mentioned and discussed. I think if strong standards are maintained, the quality of the application pool with increase which of course improves the quality of the matriculating classes.

If a student is not a admitted to DMU for example as a figure of speech, due to academic reasons - his GPA is too low and his MCATs are horrible - hypothetically of course, I would rather have this student go back to re-take the MCATs and improve his GPA (post bac courses) to show that a) he is a serious student...b) he is passionate enough about pursuing a career in our profession...and c) he is competent enough to maintain our high expectations. To me, this would be most ideal rather than having that student apply and get accepted to a "lower tier" school with very mediocre stats, only to fail out in less than a year because he/she believed the false propaganda of the admissions committee in thinking that he/she is a competent "podiatric medical student". That is why I feel that strong admissions standards should be maintained everywhere and if programs can't maintain a standard level of expectations then they should not be accredited by the CPME.

 

[capo]

I think a minimum overall GPA of 2.75, sci. GPA min. of 3.0 or better AND a min. MCAT of 24, would exclude many appilcants as do some med schools and thus -- upgrade immediately the applicant pool. No one w/ less than these numbers, would even be considered for an interview at ANY school.

But of course this is dreaming and wishful thinking and this'll never happen, as some schools need $ so bad that a 2.5 overall and 2.5 sci. GPA, w/ a 18 MCAT could probably get it.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

I think a minimum overall GPA of 2.75, sci. GPA min. of 3.0 or better AND a min. MCAT of 24, would exclude many appilcants as do some med schools and thus -- upgrade immediately the applicant pool. No one w/ less than these numbers, would even be considered for an interview at ANY school.

But of course this is dreaming and wishful thinking and this'll never happen, as some schools need $ so bad that a 2.5 overall and 2.5 sci. GPA, w/ a 18 MCAT could probably get it.

We may not see ONE drastic, all-encompassing change BUT one by one, as the schools change, drastic changes will occur! Before too long (give it a decade or slightly more), we may see this reach to all of the schools.

Hmmm, that sounds good to me seeing as how I'm a newbie and it will be about 7 years before I'm done... Hopefully by then, we will have a nationwide scope of practice, etc.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[dpmgrad]

All podiatry schools should hold and maintain a similar standard - we're too small of a profession to allow for parity within "top" and "not so top" schools. I agree that MCATs should be minimum requirements with minimum scores of 23.

The main thing is that we need a standard maintained and upheld by all the schools and more emphasis should be given to the board scores as we've previously mentioned and discussed. I think if strong standards are maintained, the quality of the application pool with increase which of course improves the quality of the matriculating classes.

If a student is not a admitted to DMU for example as a figure of speech, due to academic reasons - his GPA is too low and his MCATs are horrible - hypothetically of course, I would rather have this student go back to re-take the MCATs and improve his GPA (post bac courses) to show that a) he is a serious student...b) he is passionate enough about pursuing a career in our profession...and c) he is competent enough to maintain our high expectations. To me, this would be most ideal rather than having that student apply and get accepted to a "lower tier" school with very mediocre stats, only to fail out in less than a year because he/she believed the false propaganda of the admissions committee in thinking that he/she is a competent "podiatric medical student". That is why I feel that strong admissions standards should be maintained everywhere and if programs can't maintain a standard level of expectations then they should not be accredited by the CPME.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

All podiatry schools should hold and maintain a similar standard - we're too small of a profession to allow for parity within "top" and "not so top" schools. I agree that MCATs should be minimum requirements with minimum scores of 23.

The main thing is that we need a standard maintained and upheld by all the schools and more emphasis should be given to the board scores as we've previously mentioned and discussed. I think if strong standards are maintained, the quality of the application pool with increase which of course improves the quality of the matriculating classes.

If a student is not a admitted to DMU for example as a figure of speech, due to academic reasons - his GPA is too low and his MCATs are horrible - hypothetically of course, I would rather have this student go back to re-take the MCATs and improve his GPA (post bac courses) to show that a) he is a serious student...b) he is passionate enough about pursuing a career in our profession...and c) he is competent enough to maintain our high expectations. To me, this would be most ideal rather than having that student apply and get accepted to a "lower tier" school with very mediocre stats, only to fail out in less than a year because he/she believed the false propaganda of the admissions committee in thinking that he/she is a competent "podiatric medical student". That is why I feel that strong admissions standards should be maintained everywhere and if programs can't maintain a standard level of expectations then they should not be accredited by the CPME.

I am 100% behind your comments. One thing that would change this (even though I am beating that dead horse) is changes to the board scores. One score them don't' make them pass/fail, and two, release the pass rates. This information would effect residency placement and also public embarrass the colleges to make the changes necessary.

Podman, this next song on my cowbell is for you!!!

 

[Podman]

I am 100% behind your comments. One thing that would change this (even though I am beating that dead horse) is changes to the board scores. One score them don't' make them pass/fail, and two, release the pass rates. This information would effect residency placement and also public embarrass the colleges to make the changes necessary.

Podman, this next song on my cowbell is for you!!!

SWEEEEET!!! This day can't get any better than this - i didn't get my ass pimped at clinic and i made it on Feelgood's Cowbell...

I think i can speak on behalf of all the 2008 class when i say, you owe us a song on your cowbell after boards

 

[whiskers]

I have a feeling that some administrators wouldn't be the least bit embarassed by poor board scores. How do I know, because they don't seem the least bit embarassed by the education that they are providing. In fact, if the students are not understanding the material, the answer is simple, the students, by and large are lazy@!

"nuttin wong wit dis pwogwam!" We gots to wurk on deir shord derm memre fur boords dough and complane dat de Q's R 2 hard bcuz we gots da bast pwogwam.

 

[Clovers]

If I go to a "lower tier" pod school would that effect me dramatically in the future in regards to residency and job?

 

[Podman]

If I go to a "lower tier" pod school would that effect me dramatically in the future in regards to residency and job?

Depends on what you make out of this school...If you are going there and doing minimal work just to pass without really learning, understanding, or applying the material in clinical situations then you're not going to do well...

If you are serious and dedicated and are self-motivated/driven, then you'll do fine and will match a great residency. Lower tier or Upper tier, you still have to put in the time, work, and effort. At the end of the day, you will earn your DPM just like everyone else and its upto you to learn and absorb the information taught. Of course, going to a an "top tier" school does make the learning environment alot easier but again, you still have to put in the time and effort of course.