HPSP...chances of dieing with 4 year deal

[americanpierg]

Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas?

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[bwa102]

Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas?

There are few circumstances in which the military scholarship leaves you financially better off than the student who enters private practice. The hours are bad, the clinics understaffed, and the red tape enormous. That being said, there can be inherent personal value in being a serviceman, but you must possess the internal motivation for it to be realized. Countless dentists on dentaltown espouse the notion that military scholarships should not be pursued for the money only. To answer your question from what I've read and heard, army dentists are soldiers first and are on the ground in Iraq, live in tents, etc. Navy and Air Force dentists are military health care providers on ships and at bases. All three services have deployed dentists to Iraq; Navy dentists on ships in the persian gulf, Air Force dentists at air bases in Baghdad and Turkey, Army dentists imbedded with ground units. Your actual chances of being deployed is anyones guess and would be merely speculative. It depends heavily upon rank, service time, specialty, etc.

I do not know an online source for Army info, but
Air Force information is contained at the following website:
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/medical/Dental/career/hpsp/scholar.htm

Navy information can be found at:
http://nshs.med.navy.mil/hpsp/Pages/Programs.htm

Have you thought about the National Health Services Corps? The deal is similar to the military scholarship, but you promise to practice in under served communities around the country. A majority of the locations are on Indian Reservations across the Western US and Alaska, though some urban areas are also classified as underserved. Information on this program can be found at:
http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/

 

[americanpierg]

anyone think the war in iraq will end within the next 5-10 years?

 

[klfb80]

Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas?

After serving in the Army for eight years I would definitley tell you that I would go into the Airforce in a heart beat if I were to take the scholarship. The quality of life is way better than any other service. The previous post gave some good information but not entirley accurate. Yes, Army dentists are on the ground in Iraq but they are no embedded with units in the field necissarily. They are in medical units that are set up in the rear. I know several Amy dentist and many have served in Iraq by choice. Ther is more of a chance that you would die in a car accident than you would in any military related function. Also everyone in every service is a soldier first not just in the Army. What that means is really up to you or in other words it's means if you where the unifrom you belong to the government and are there to serve your country. The botom line is that as an army, airforce, marine, navy dentist you will be practicing just that, dentistry and no more than that.

 

[klfb80]

anyone think the war in iraq will end within the next 5-10 years?

Tough to say. Honestly the U.S. will maintain a pressence of some sort in Iraq for some time to come, probably for the rest of our lifetime. I mean I spent my first year in the service in 1996 in South Korea. Look how long that conflict has been going on 40-50 or even 60 years. I also spent almost a year in Bosnia in 1999. We are currently still maintaining a prensence in both places. The reality is is that once we occupy a country eventually much of the troops will be withdrawn but there will usually be some sort of presence for many years to come. I don't see any complete troop withdrawl any time soon. But no need to worry from what i hear Army dentists are jumping at the chance to go (tax free and hazardous duty pay) so the chances of you being deployed without request may not be that big. Last thing the best time I did in the service was in Bosnia living in a tent and sleeping on a cot.

 

[hockeydentist]

Yes life is precious, but anyone can die on any given day regardless if there sitting on the front lines in Irac or standing in line on bus line.

 

[americanpierg]

i hear theres been like 2000 people killed in the army, but less than 100 killed in both the navy and the airforce.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Remember that a "4-year deal" is not simply a four-year deal. That's a four year commitment to active duty. Read the fine print and discover what your reserve commitments are. Typically that's another 4 years. It used to be that being a reserve was fairly chill--but look at all the reservists putting in serious time now (such as our own SDN founder, who is a physician and in Iraq as we speak).

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas?

The fact that you misspelled "dying" in your thread title still makes me believe that you probably still have much better spelling than anyone in the US army.

 

[shinji]

After you graduate from dental school, you will get promoted to become a captain, which the military will have a troop to protect you, a high ranking officer, if you get deployed.

 

[aphistis]

The fact that you misspelled "dying" in your thread title still makes me believe that you probably still have much better spelling than anyone in the US army.

Hurf hurf that's funny wait I don't get it since the Army made me stupid.



Re: the OP and the original question, this thread has so much misinformation that I'd really recommend not paying any attention to it. Your best source of answers regarding the HPSP is going to be people who are currently enrolled or who have been previously. Failing that, you should consider asking this in the Military Residencies forum. Good luck.

 

[klfb80]

Hurf hurf that's funny wait I don't get it since the Army made me stupid.



Re: the OP and the original question, this thread has so much misinformation that I'd really recommend not paying any attention to it. Your best source of answers regarding the HPSP is going to be people who are currently enrolled or who have been previously. Failing that, you should consider asking this in the Military Residencies forum. Good luck.

Just because students are on the HPSP scholarship does not mean that they know anything about being in the military so why would you tell them to talk to someone on HPSP, you for one should know this as you said you were in the Army. As for misinformation on the thread I haven't really seen any (mostly opinions) except maybe the one about protecting high ranking officers because we both know that captians are not high ranking officers. Finally the question was: Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas? This does not sound like a question requesting info about the HPSP program it sounds like a question about being deployed or dying. If you ask me it's best answered by someone who has been in the military and not necissarily someone who is going into the military.

 

[aphistis]

Just because students are on the HPSP scholarship does not mean that they know anything about being in the military so why would you tell them to talk to someone on HPSP, you for one should know this as you said you were in the Army. As for misinformation on the thread I haven't really seen any (mostly opinions) except maybe the one about protecting high ranking officers because we both know that captians are not high ranking officers. Finally the question was: Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas? This does not sound like a question requesting info about the HPSP program it sounds like a question about being deployed or dying. If you ask me it's best answered by someone who has been in the military and not necissarily someone who is going into the military.

...and as I said in my original response, the best people to ask for information overall would be dentists who took the HPSP earlier in school, and the best resource on SDN would be the military residencies forum. S/he is unlikely to get anything of significant value from the pre-dent board.

 

[klfb80]

...and as I said in my original response, the best people to ask for information overall would be dentists who took the HPSP earlier in school, and the best resource on SDN would be the military residencies forum. S/he is unlikely to get anything of significant value from the pre-dent board.

Yeah but I still don't see this misinfo. that he or she should not pay attention to as you said. Since you moderate and are on here all the time as I see your posts everywhere (thats a good thing, seems like you have alot to offer) maybe you should take the time to answer the question that was asked instead of telling them to go somewhere else. Anyone that was in the military should be able to answer about military life I guess unless you were never deployed or anhting like that but even then you would still be able to answer it in a general sort of way. Also I beleve that this question was appropriate for this forum predental or not as I have seen many members that are prior militaryincluding yourself. I know many people who have used the HPSP scholarship and I could answer most questions myself.

 

[Sprgrover]

...Now im going to be straight forward and say this is all about the money, although i dont mind working as a military dentist, as long as i dont die. Which branch, navy/army/air force, am i least likely to die working for after dental school if i choose the scholarship. What are my chances of dieing/ getting deployed in iraq or other hostile areas?...

For what it's worth I have been told that the best branches of the military are the Navy and the Airforce, with most people prefering the Airforce.

 

[americanpierg]

...and as I said in my original response, the best people to ask for information overall would be dentists who took the HPSP earlier in school, and the best resource on SDN would be the military residencies forum. S/he is unlikely to get anything of significant value from the pre-dent board.

I've read through all the relevant hpsp threads in the military medicine thread before i read this, and about 98% of them were about the physican deal with their mandatory residency and stuff, so i decided to ask here. I cant seem to find the military residencies forum though. Anyways the Air Force hpsp seems reallly nice now, debt free at graudation, great work experience after that, chances of seeing the world, nice tax advantages (Michigan), gaining the title of "Captain"....it all seems too good to be true.

 

[MoosePilot]

Well, compare the number of military dentists to the number of military dentists that have died in the current conflict. Divide by the number of years and I think you'd have an idea for an approximate yearly rate. I'm guessing the number is zero. I've heard of one doctor dying in Iraq. Anyone heard of more?

 

[americanpierg]

Well, compare the number of military dentists to the number of military dentists that have died in the current conflict. Divide by the number of years and I think you'd have an idea for an approximate yearly rate. I'm guessing the number is zero. I've heard of one doctor dying in Iraq. Anyone heard of more?

Yea thats what i was thinking. Theres like what, 2200 peolpe dead since iraq started, and the majority of these were enlisted personels and not commisioned officers. Thats roughly 2 thousand out of who knows how many, 200,000 or something probably. Working as a military dentist seems great, until you end up as a POW. That .0001 percent still scares me, prolly just because im so scared of death. That image reporter dude who got his head cut off awhile back really took a toll on me.

 

[MoosePilot]

Yea thats what i was thinking. Theres like what, 2200 peolpe dead since iraq started, and the majority of these were enlisted personels and not commisioned officers. Thats roughly 2 thousand out of who knows how many, 40,000 or something probably. Working as a military dentist seems great, until you end up as a POW. That .0001 percent still scares me, prolly just because im so scared of death. That image reporter dude who got his head cut off awhile back really took a toll on me.

If you're that scared of death, don't join.

If you drive, you're more likely to die there, but if you're irrationally afraid of death due to terrorists' effort to scare you, then you should avoid the situation.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

Yea thats what i was thinking. Theres like what, 2200 peolpe dead since iraq started, and the majority of these were enlisted personels and not commisioned officers. Thats roughly 2 thousand out of who knows how many, 200,000 or something probably. Working as a military dentist seems great, until you end up as a POW. That .0001 percent still scares me, prolly just because im so scared of death. That image reporter dude who got his head cut off awhile back really took a toll on me.

Everyone will die in this world sooner or later. You have higher chance of being killed while driving on highway than becoming a POW in IRAQ(if they deploy you). I mean if you really want to do it I say do it. Money is good, life experience is great. I wanted to do it but they won't let me(I am not citizen of US yet, just a green card holder). I wanted to do the Air force one. I will become citizen in a year or so but it would be late then. Go with your guts man. Don't just do it for the money. I gurantee that you will make good money and won't have any problem paying your loans back. This may be a good experience if you are willing to serve your country.

 

[adr12]

If you take the scholarship, you should plan on deploying, no matter which service you enter. You may not end up deploying, but it wouldn't be prudent to accept the scholarship banking on the fact that you'll "get lucky" and won't deploy. Having said that, I would probably go Air Force as their version of deployment seems to be better than the Navy's version, which is probably a whole lot better than the Army's version! I am in the Navy and have done a couple of deployments, including one to the Persian Gulf, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on. The best thing to do would be to speak with some dentists in each service and get their opinions of the pros/cons, and what their experiences have been.
Also, the Navy dentists I speak with say the Dental Corps is expected to change. They expect more shore bases to contract out services and active duty dentists to deploy more. That's all word of mouth though, I don't have any facts to back that up.

 

[americanpierg]

200,000+ for school loans, plus another 300,000-500,000 to open up a practice thats like 2,500ish a month for 240 months or 20 years. A very large amount of debt, which will be even more if i wanted to buy a house. Deployment isnt so bad as i hear the non-combat commisioned officers (dentists, physicians, etc) stay in the far rear if they are attached to a combat group. Also, to reply to a previous post i doubt they get a high ranking officer at their disposal and groups to protect them because of their captain status becuase they cannot command combat troups. Bush is also talking of pulling troops out of iraq slowly...good news.

Anyone know if ur allowed to specialize if ur on this scholarship?

 

[adr12]

Also, to reply to a previous post i doubt they get a high ranking officer at their disposal and groups to protect them because of their captain status becuase they cannot command combat troups.

Correct, that post made me laugh when I read it. I wouldn't expect any personal armed guards as an O-3, and you will be following the orders of officers above you in your command. An O-3 is not a high ranking officer.

 

[americanpierg]

Correct, that post made me laugh when I read it. I wouldn't expect any personal armed guards as an O-3, and you will be following the orders of officers above you in your command. An O-3 is not a high ranking officer.

Actually i think an O-3 (captain) is a relatively high ranking official in the military, just not a non-line unit like a military dentist who has no power and is apparently treated like dirt. An O-3 would outrank all enlisted personels and warrant officers along with 2nd and 1st lieutenent. Sure its no O-10 4 star general, but heck theres only like one of them.

 

[adr12]

Actually i think an O-3 (captain) is a relatively high ranking official in the military, just not a non-line unit like a military dentist who has no power and is apparently treated like dirt. An O-3 would outrank all enlisted personels and warrant officers along with 2nd and 1st lieutenent. Sure its no O-10 4 star general, but heck theres only like one of them.

I am an O-3 in the Navy, and that is the same rank you will be commissioned as if you accept an Armed Forces Health Professions Scholarship. You will outrank all enlisted personnel, warrants, and O-1s and 2s, but will not be a field grade officer (read high-ranking). You are sort of a high-ranking Junior Officer. That's the best way I can put it. Rank is separate from line vs. non-line. You should not be treated like dirt no matter what rank, and as an O-3 dental officer you should be treated well as you will be a very valuable asset to your unit and keeping it's personnel ready to complete the required missions. You won't have personal body guards though.

 

[BigRedDentist]

All of my information comes from the recruiters and dentists that I have talked to in the service; so be warned.

The last dentist to die in a war was in vietnam when he crashed his car drunk driving from a bar.

The closest Airforce dentist is in Germany. You have to volunteer in order to get sent to Iraq.

You are encouraged to specialize and they will either put you in a military residency or a civilian one and pay you as a captain while you are doing it. This adds no more years to your contract of 4 for dental school but must be paid after your specialty training. Eg. 4 years dental school + 2 years ortho (making capts salary) +4 years service (while rank increases)

There is no inactive duty after your 4 years because while you are in HPHS you are in the Airforce as a Second Lt, even though you don't have to do anything for them. Thus your 8 years are covered.

In the Airforce your first deployment MUST be in the US. You are not allowed to be stationed overseas which includes Alaska and Hawaii.

Let me know if there are any other questions that I have or can get answered.

 

[klfb80]

200,000+ for school loans, plus another 300,000-500,000 to open up a practice thats like 2,500ish a month for 240 months or 20 years. A very large amount of debt, which will be even more if i wanted to buy a house. Deployment isnt so bad as i hear the non-combat commisioned officers (dentists, physicians, etc) stay in the far rear if they are attached to a combat group. Also, to reply to a previous post i doubt they get a high ranking officer at their disposal and groups to protect them because of their captain status becuase they cannot command combat troups. Bush is also talking of pulling troops out of iraq slowly...good news.

Anyone know if ur allowed to specialize if ur on this scholarship?

I had a friend that was prior service. He got out of the Army after serving 10 years as a field artillery officer. He applied to dental school and got in at UOP. He took the HPSP and then when bak in after d-school. He spent a few years practicing genreal dentistryand then applied to an Orhto program through the Army. The Army needs all specialties so they have allocated positions in many specialty schools around the country for military personel. He got in at Lousville and was payed as a Lieutenant Colonel (he was already a captian when he got out the first time) for the 2 years that he was in Orhto program and also lived as bascially a civilian for those years as well. Also Ortho is very competative and he was only middle of his class while in d-school so he may not have had the chance to specialize otherwise. Fortunatley the Army is the selecting officials for these positions. He owed an aditional 2 years after Ortho school (1 for 1 exchange). In the end UOP around $300,000 maybe less and then $100,000 for Orhto all payed by the Army in turn for 6 years. Kepp in mind this is not for everyone and as someone said earlier the Army is a total comittment of eith years. What this means is you do your 1 for 1 exchange and then after the 4 years you get out and go on inactive reserves. Inactive reserves you don't do any monthly drill or anything you just check you mailbox periodically to see if you will be recalled onto active duty (JK). I spent a year on inactive reserves and was never recalled. I also spent a year in the national gaurd and was never deployed but shortly after I got out my unit went to Iraq. I was in aviation so different than other types of jobs and you do have to consider the job filed you are in known as MOS. The main thing is be realistic there is a pretty good chance that you can be deployed and if your not up to this this should be a big concern.

 

[klfb80]

There is no inactive duty after your 4 years because while you are in HPHS you are in the Airforce as a Second Lt, even though you don't have to do anything for them. Thus your 8 years are covered.




Good info as well. And a very good point that you bring up here that I did not think of before. Any time you spend under contract with the military in program like this is considered inactive reserve time so by the time you graduate from d-school all inactive time will be complete and after you finish your 4 year comittment you will be done with very little chance that you could ever be recalled.

In the Airforce your first deployment MUST be in the US. You are not allowed to be stationed overseas which includes Alaska and Hawaii.

Not really a such thing as a deployment in the US sort of unless it's homeland security or training so by this statement I assume you mean the first duty station.

 

[americanpierg]

All of my information comes from the recruiters and dentists that I have talked to in the service; so be warned.

The last dentist to die in a war was in vietnam when he crashed his car drunk driving from a bar.

The closest Airforce dentist is in Germany. You have to volunteer in order to get sent to Iraq.

You are encouraged to specialize and they will either put you in a military residency or a civilian one and pay you as a captain while you are doing it. This adds no more years to your contract of 4 for dental school but must be paid after your specialty training. Eg. 4 years dental school + 2 years ortho (making capts salary) +4 years service (while rank increases)

There is no inactive duty after your 4 years because while you are in HPHS you are in the Airforce as a Second Lt, even though you don't have to do anything for them. Thus your 8 years are covered.
In the Airforce your first deployment MUST be in the US. You are not allowed to be stationed overseas which includes Alaska and Hawaii.

Let me know if there are any other questions that I have or can get answered.

I heard earlier on this thread that the creator of SDN was deployed to iraq while on IRR. Also, from all that ive read about the program, you owe 1+1 service on active duty PLUS an additional 4 year IRR after that, are you POSITIVE that your IRR years are served while in school? The ortho training is very good to hear.

 

[jmill0]

There is no inactive duty after your 4 years because while you are in HPHS you are in the Airforce as a Second Lt, even though you don't have to do anything for them. Thus your 8 years are covered.


This is untrue. The years spent during dental school do not count towards your eight year obligation. I know from experience. I tried to resign my commission last February because it had been eight years since I raised my right hand. I filled out the required paperwork and my resignation was denied due to my IRR obligation had not been filled AFTER my AD term. Don't get me wrong, I think the military is a great option if you want to do it, but don't get your from anyone who hasn't lived the military dentist life themselves. Everything else is heresay.

Former Army Dentist and still doing IRR time....

 

[MoosePilot]

I heard earlier on this thread that the creator of SDN was deployed to iraq while on IRR. Also, from all that ive read about the program, you owe 1+1 service on active duty PLUS an additional 4 year IRR after that, are you POSITIVE that your IRR years are served while in school? The ortho training is very good to hear.

I think he was a regular reservist and not on IRR, but you could PM and ask him when he gets back.

 

[BigRedDentist]

There is no inactive duty after your 4 years because while you are in HPHS you are in the Airforce as a Second Lt, even though you don't have to do anything for them. Thus your 8 years are covered.


This is untrue. The years spent during dental school do not count towards your eight year obligation. I know from experience. I tried to resign my commission last February because it had been eight years since I raised my right hand. I filled out the required paperwork and my resignation was denied due to my IRR obligation had not been filled AFTER my AD term. Don't get me wrong, I think the military is a great option if you want to do it, but don't get your from anyone who hasn't lived the military dentist life themselves. Everything else is heresay.

Former Army Dentist and still doing IRR time....

Like I said, all of my information comes from Airforce recruiters and dentists I have talked to. I have specifically asked this many times but I definitely will read the fine print before I sign any contract.