I AM SO LOST...help

[CBDorCDB]

Hello All,

In my contemplation of my future career, I almost always stumble upon this website. I figure, why not join? I am in a constant state of stress and fear of not getting in to graduate school for psychology. I need help from all of you experts on two different topics.

First is PhD or PsyD (I know this gets asked a lot but please read through!):

I am now a Junior, and have been doing undergraduate research for 1 full year. I have a 3.68 GPA, and a 3.9 Psychology GPA. I am an Honors Student at my University, and I recently presented in our Undergraduate Conference for Gender/Communication Research. I have very personal and good rec letters, from 1 psych (the head of my lab currently), the Dean of the Honors College, and a very close professor in the Humanities Department. I have not taken the GRE, but I did well on the SAT so I expect that those will be good as well. I am in a suicide research lab as an RA, and I doubt I will get a publication in the time frame I have to apply.
In my lab, I do not enjoy research very much. We don't really run participants, and its pretty disorganized and very hierarchical (is this normal??? I have no comparison here. I've met the PI several times and he still doesn't know my name...). that being said its highly respected and we bring in tons of grant money. it's not that I'm not interested in what we do, it's that I don't get to do anything of relevance (today I decorated posters). As I'm sure you understand, I'd be a fool to quit now. I might not be able to get published, but I've put so much time in this now, I know that it's a bad idea to quit or anything.
So then I wonder, is PsyD the right fit since it has less research, or should I pursue a PhD with these stats and find research I actually like, in a better environment. My end goal is to be a clinician, particularly with adults and not children (so no school psych...). I want to go for clinical psych to be able to do assessments and therapy, and not to mention I want to do psychopathology, which almost requires clinical psych. I honestly know a lot of the cons of PsyD, but I am thinking of applying to my reach school, Rutgers, and hopefully to get in.

SO:
How competitive am I for a GOOD PsyD (Don't worry...not going to apply to any professional schools) or an AVERAGE to GOOD PhD?
Also, please please give me insight into which one I should mainly pursue. I already know I will be applying to different types of degrees, but I'd love somewhere to start.

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[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Rutgers PsyD is a solid program. Also look at Baylors program and Indiana University of Pennsylvania's program. I would also look at Rutgers PhD program. Maybe a good idea for you would be to take a year or two off after your BA to get solid research experience in another lab and maybe even get a Research MA. But I also encourage you to try to apply this round for when you finish your BA.

In my experience (while mostly shadowing opinions from other members here in the past) go with the PHD. It will give you more opportunities in the end and prepare you for research.

PM me if you have any questions, I'll be glad to help out.
PsychUndergradMajor18

 

[psych844]

There are schools that balance clinical/research and the expectations aren't generally so stringent in terms of research..maybe a semester or year worth of research. (especially if your GRE, other components are really strong)

 

[eremitestar]

I want to go for clinical psych to be able to do assessments and therapy, and not to mention I want to do psychopathology, which almost requires clinical psych.

You can also do this with a counseling psych PhD.

 

[CBDorCDB]

Rutgers PsyD is a solid program. Also look at Baylors program and Indiana University of Pennsylvania's program. I would also look at Rutgers PhD program. Maybe a good idea for you would be to take a year or two off after your BA to get solid research experience in another lab and maybe even get a Research MA. But I also encourage you to try to apply this round for when you finish your BA.

In my experience (while mostly shadowing opinions from other members here in the past) go with the PHD. It will give you more opportunities in the end and prepare you for research.

PM me if you have any questions, I'll be glad to help out.
PsychUndergradMajor18

You can also do this with a counseling psych PhD.

Do you have any suggestion of which programs are good, and that I stand a chance for? Thanks for clearing that up, I was under the impression I couldn't use a counseling psych phd the same way.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Plus if you want tot apply for PhD programs it's good to know what interests you have, such as ADHD, neuro-imaging, autism research, etc. When you go into a PhD program (and some PsyD programs) you are trained to become specialists in your area of studies.

 

[eremitestar]

Do you have any suggestion of which programs are good, and that I stand a chance for? Thanks for clearing that up, I was under the impression I couldn't use a counseling psych phd the same way.

The differences between clinical and counseling psych are primarily historical and philosophical. Functionally, there's really no difference. Both make you eligible for licensure as a psychologist. My internship and postdoc were both labelled as "clinical" even though my degree is in counseling. You can even get board certified in clinical psych or neuropsych with a counseling psych degree. I think a lot of people see counseling psych as preparing students primarily to work in university counseling centers or to do career development. While some people from my program have gone that route, just as many work in academic medical centers, VAs, state hospitals, forensic settings, and private practice. Bear in mind, though, that this is counseling psych, not counseling or counselor ed. They sound the same, but are VERY different, and don't qualify you for licensure as a psychologist.

As for good programs, you want to evaluate counseling programs the same way you evaluate clinical programs. Look at APA match rates, EPPP pass rates, and funding. I've heard great things about Missouri-Columbia, Colorado State, and Minnesota. Marquette, University of Houston, Boston College, North Texas, and Texas Woman's also have solid programs. I'd check the insider's guide and see who's doing research you're interested in. As long as your GRE scores are good, you should be competitive if you're a good fit. Just make sure you check the admission requirements. Some counseling psych programs (e.g., Memphis) require a master's, while others will accept people straight from undergrad. Others (e.g., University of Denver) technically allow applicants straight out of undergrad, but almost never actually accept any. Make sure you do your research so you don't wind up wasting your time on programs that prefer people come in with a masters. If you have any questions about life in counseling psych, feel free to PM me

 

[CBDorCDB]

Plus if you want tot apply for PhD programs it's good to know what interests you have, such as ADHD, neuro-imaging, autism research, etc. When you go into a PhD program (and some PsyD programs) you are trained to become specialists in your area of studies.

I'm honestly kind of confused on that at the moment, I'm leaning towards bi-polar, but honestly I hope to be able to treat an array of disorders. I just know I like adults, and I sort of am interested in men more then females, so I lean towards working for the VA later on.

 

[WisNeuro]

I just know I like adults, and I sort of am interested in men more then females, so I lean towards working for the VA later on.

Pay careful attention to a program's APA accredited match rate for internship, otherwise the VA won't even be an option.

 

[CBDorCDB]

Pay careful attention to a program's APA accredited match rate for internship, otherwise the VA won't even be an option.

Yes I have gotten this advice, but it is super important to re-iterate! I definitely will be taking that into great consideration, VA or not!

 

[deleted343839]

You have another year to go, so there is still a chance to get a different experience with research. If your work in your lab doesn't shed much light on how research is actually conducted, then it's not much of a training experience. Your PI may be successful in ways that matter to funding agencies, but if you aren't doing much there, your letter of recommendation isn't going to be stellar either. So perhaps now is the time to speak up to your immediate supervisor (I assume a grad student?) and express your interest in sticking around another year and becoming more involved. That might open some doors for you. Or, you could consider joining a second lab. In general, it looks better to have a detailed, glowing letter of recommendation from a lesser known PI than a vaguely positive one from a better known PI.

Your timeline is getting tighter, but consider that for any number of reasons you may decide not to apply this fall, or you may not receive an offer of admission your first try. Even if you decide not to pursue research, more meaningful research experience would enhance your graduate school applications. And any solid Psy.D. program like Rutgers will still expect you to achieve some basic competence in research design and statistics.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Listen to Mama. She is right on the money with the advice. To me, it sounds like you are on the right track to being a competitive applicant. Some of your frustration is coming about because you want to do more and be more involved in the research process. Excellent. Some of the things that you won't get to do now will help steer you in the direction you want to go. Letter down the road, "I really enjoyed working in this lab because yada yada yada, but am really looking forward to the opportunity to work with participants and getting results published etc. etc."

 

[CBDorCDB]

Listen to Mama. She is right on the money with the advice. To me, it sounds like you are on the right track to being a competitive applicant. Some of your frustration is coming about because you want to do more and be more involved in the research process. Excellent. Some of the things that you won't get to do now will help steer you in the direction you want to go. Letter down the road, "I really enjoyed working in this lab because yada yada yada, but am really looking forward to the opportunity to work with participants and getting results published etc. etc."

right so I could write a personal statement on a personal note, saying how I am motivated by the taste of what I've gotten, and want to do more. I still need to figure out what it is I want to do. Hopefully i can spend the next couple of months figuring out something I am REALLY passionate about rather than suffering through research I am not.

 

[smalltownpsych]

right so I could write a personal statement on a personal note, saying how I am motivated by the taste of what I've gotten, and want to do more. I still need to figure out what it is I want to do. Hopefully i can spend the next couple of months figuring out something I am REALLY passionate about rather than suffering through research I am not.

What you are going to do is mostly determined by what is available and at this point in training the likelihood of shifting your direction multiple times is pretty high. During my doctoral program, I would change my career goals during every practicum. I personally find almost all research and topics in psychology pretty interesting and research on suicide is pretty central to what we do as clinical psychologists. The question I would ask is it really the topic that is the problem or is it the lab and the PI? Once that is narrowed down, then the next question is what can be done about it.

 

[CBDorCDB]

What you are going to do is mostly determined by what is available and at this point in training the likelihood of shifting your direction multiple times is pretty high. During my doctoral program, I would change my career goals during every practicum. I personally find almost all research and topics in psychology pretty interesting and research on suicide is pretty central to what we do as clinical psychologists. The question I would ask is it really the topic that is the problem or is it the lab and the PI? Once that is narrowed down, then the next question is what can be done about it.

I'm pretty damn sure it's the lab and PI. just because we don't run participants, so no hands on action. Also never really see our work being implemented, but that could be from lack of communication. I do know what you mean in that I will probably shift my aspirations, and you're also right that suicide is quite central. Our research is also super adolescent based, so that doesn't help too much either since I am more interested in adults. Our lab is just super bad at communicating and giving RAs a chance to do meaningful work, and the PI is incredibly un-involved.

 

[Sendtrees]

Don't think about "applying to programs"--think about applying to a professor. When I was getting started, I looked at about 100 programs, probably every APA-accredited PhD program with a decent APA match rate, but I narrowed down based on which professors were doing research I could fit with. You have to have a place in a lab to get into a program, so I would start there.

 

[CBDorCDB]

Don't think about "applying to programs"--think about applying to a professor. When I was getting started, I looked at about 100 programs, probably every APA-accredited PhD program with a decent APA match rate, but I narrowed down based on which professors were doing research I could fit with. You have to have a place in a lab to get into a program, so I would start there.

i want to look at or start a new thread on this.
I hear the word 'fit' so much, and honestly I don't really understand what helps to make an applicant more of a fit or not. Does it have to do with interest in the particular topic and what kind of research you've done? At this point I'm not exactly sure what I want, and while I know I need to figure that out, what should I be looking for in applying to a professor?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

i want to look at or start a new thread on this.
I hear the word 'fit' so much, and honestly I don't really understand what helps to make an applicant more of a fit or not. Does it have to do with interest in the particular topic and what kind of research you've done? At this point I'm not exactly sure what I want, and while I know I need to figure that out, what should I be looking for in applying to a professor?

At this level (i.e., undergrad preparing to apply to grad school), it's less so about fit with what you've done, and more so about how well your interests fit with your prospective advisors'. If you're interested in working with autism spectrum disorders in kiddos, don't apply to a professor who works predominantly with adults with substance use disorders and severe and persistent mental illness.

You may not know exactly what it is you'd like to do, which is fine (and typical). However, you should start working on narrowing your interests down somewhat. Are there particular populations and/or disorders that interest you? Particular interventions you want to gain experience with? Specific types of research questions and projects you think you might enjoy? These sorts of questions (and many others) can help you figure out to which programs and advisors you should apply.

And as in other things with relatively broad scopes, it can sometimes be just as helpful to begin by identifying what you aren't interested in doing/seeing/researching/treating long-term.

 

[CBDorCDB]

At this level (i.e., undergrad preparing to apply to grad school), it's less so about fit with what you've done, and more so about how well your interests fit with your prospective advisors'. If you're interested in working with autism spectrum disorders in kiddos, don't apply to a professor who works predominantly with adults with substance use disorders and severe and persistent mental illness.

You may not know exactly what it is you'd like to do, which is fine (and typical). However, you should start working on narrowing your interests down somewhat. Are there particular populations and/or disorders that interest you? Particular interventions you want to gain experience with? Specific types of research questions and projects you think you might enjoy? These sorts of questions (and many others) can help you figure out to which programs and advisors you should apply.

And as in other things with relatively broad scopes, it can sometimes be just as helpful to begin by identifying what you aren't interested in doing/seeing/researching/treating long-term.

Okay going off of this...
I know I want to work with adults with depression/bi-polar/substance abuse/PTSD/personality disorders/anxiety....
I know that's a lot, but I'm really interested in psychopathology... of any kind.
I just know no children and probably men!

 

[WisNeuro]

Got to work on narrowing that down. When a professor asks why you want to work with them, specifically, can you tell a convincing story that makes it sound like you are a good fit for their lab in particular?

 

[CBDorCDB]

Got to work on narrowing that down. When a professor asks why you want to work with them, specifically, can you tell a convincing story that makes it sound like you are a good fit for their lab in particular?

So do you think I should be applying to labs with one topic in mind (like only applying to bipolar labs) or would it be okay if maybe I narrowed it down but still applied to let's say depression and bipolar labs? I get what you're saying though, and you're totally right.
Would mentioning a personal experience with these disorders as a reason for studying them be a kiss of death?

 

[WisNeuro]

You should have an area in mind. Like, a PI who does depression and psychophys work doesn't want a bunch of people who want to look at schizophrenia and psychopharm. It's just not in their area and they don't have much to offer to the student and vice versa. As for personal experiences, I would personally shy away from mentioning it, some people get wary with people doing mesearch. I'm sure others will have different opinions. I just prefer to play it safe.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I have always had a wide variety of interests and continue to do so. My greatest struggle has always been being able to narrow the focus. As a clinician, that will be less of an issue because it is difficult (and almost impossible in a rural area) to specialize as narrow as you would for research. Out of that broad area of clinical psychopathology, which pulls you the most? It doesn't really matter why at this point and many of the other topics will connect to it anyway. So for example, if you started with PTSD, but found down the road you were more interested in depression; well, guess what, people with PTSD often struggle with depression and you shift the focus a bit. You could also work on differentiating disorders or co-morbidity. The main point will be to narrow the main interest at this point to start the process of selecting schools that have a research match.