I got my medical marijuana card!

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jettavr6 said:
You tried a full 6-8 week course of an SSRI to see how it worked? You are aware that the feeling is completely different for patients after enough time has passed by?
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Yeah, for years. I was diagnosed with add by my psychiatrist at 12 and was started on prozac. Took that for a year then focalin then a couple others but i quit taking all that in highschool cuz of palpitations and insomnia and inability to ejaculate during intercourse (couldn't figure out why i couldn't get off until i did research on focalin). Then i became a nurse because i had a lot of questions and wanted to know more about medicine in general. In the mean time, through other sources, people would give me medications that i voluntarily wanted to experience (to really understand their actions). These were many many diff drug classes. So then i just rehabilitated my liver and kidneys and started talking to my psychiatrist drug free but with a lot more understanding. I still don't know half of what you guys know but i'm def appresiative of the learning experience a
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True Nasrudin i am a swagged out dolphin that came out the water
 
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How many marijuana addicts have you seen with liver failure, blackouts, or Wernickes'? Does marijuana speed up a psychotic break that would have happened regardless?
 
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d2305 said:
How many marijuana addicts have you seen with liver failure, blackouts, or Wernickes'?
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None. THC is not alcohol and does not have the same consequences. You would have a hard time finding a doctor that thinks ETOH or tobacco are good for you either.
d2305 said:
Does marijuana speed up a psychotic break that would have happened regardless?
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Yes and no. The literature seems to suggest that THC can essentially lower the activation threshold for those susceptible to schizophrenia from having their first break. In some cases, folks who might never have otherwise had active schizophrenia now will due to THC. In other cases, folks who would have not developed schizophrenia until 24 will now develop it at 18 (missing out on some formidable social and educational opportunities that will alter their standard of living and level of functioning for the rest of their life). In other cases, folks will have their schizophrenia activated at the same time as if they never smoked THC at all. In other cases, folks will never develop schizophrenia,

Our level of understanding about the dangers of things like alcohol is because it is well studied. THC is much less so. Physicians recommending THC in many cases are doing so on pretty dicey grounds. We need more research and the folks on the loud/obnoxious extreme on either end of this THC debate is really making things difficult for the rest of us. And our patients.



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Well said NDY. Even though I doubt the authenticity of the participant in this thread the post can still be extrapolated well to the real world.

I'm curious about the juicing of raw cannibus aside from THC and other applications of the plant that get lost when pharmaceutical companies try to isolate a particular cannabinoid for patenting purposes. I know. That's kind of hippyish. But still. I want to see if the preliminary case reports have any validity.

Also I would like to see it explored for augmentation of physical therapy. In a similar way that psilocybin, DMT, MDMA are being re-explored as adjuncts to psychotherapy. And Ayahuasca and Ibogaine are showing dramatic promise for addiction therapy.

But perhaps you'd have to experience doing yoga stoned to understand the somatic sensitization potential. Which I recommend...but not professionally, for obvious ethical reasons. I separate my professional self in matters where evidence and in some cases tradition and political work culture does not allow it.
 
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Nasrudin said:
Well said NDY. Even though I doubt the authenticity of the participant in this thread the post can still be extrapolated well to the real world.

I'm curious about the juicing of raw cannibus aside from THC and other applications of the plant that get lost when pharmaceutical companies try to isolate a particular cannabinoid for patenting purposes. I know. That's kind of hippyish. But still. I want to see if the preliminary case reports have any validity.

Also I would like to see it explored for augmentation of physical therapy. In a similar way that psilocybin, DMT, MDMA are being re-explored as adjuncts to psychotherapy. And Ayahuasca and Ibogaine are showing dramatic promise for addiction therapy.

But perhaps you'd have to experience doing yoga stoned to understand the somatic sensitization potential. Which I recommend...but not professionally, for obvious ethical reasons. I separate my professional self in matters where evidence and in some cases tradition and political work culture does not allow it.
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I have to make a point if i may. Weed and mushrooms have never made anyone overdose, that's a fact. Pills? Diff story. When people start putting their hands on natural substances and chemically altering the composition, that can be detrimental as overdosing can be dangerous to the human body. Lsd for example, now that made my friend's personality change after 8 drops. (Since i am a dolphin) back before i came out the water and swam with other dolphins, we did copious amounts of mushrooms. No overdose because of the way psilocybin works. You take an 8th and start tripping hard/mind altering experience that opens up a new perspective (but it's like a good poison for the body one that it adapts to so if you keep eating mushrooms you don't even feel it any more. So you take a whole day or two break and then maybe you will trip again). Weed is similar in that you get really high but your body has a threshhold that does not allow overdosing/detrimental effects. How many people died from alcohol? How many from drug/pill overdose? How many from natural herb or mushrooms? Exactly.
 
It would be convenient if you were an NP given my position on them, but I'm not falling for it. You do whatever cause you're undertaking a disservice. Psychonautic exploration among them.
 
Nasrudin said:
It would be convenient if you were an NP given my position on them, but I'm not falling for it. You do whatever cause you're undertaking a disservice. Psychonautic exploration among them.
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Listen hater i can't see you im too busy with this easter egg hunt, meanwhile your swag card revoked.
 
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notdeadyet said:
None. THC is not alcohol and does not have the same consequences. You would have a hard time finding a doctor that thinks ETOH or tobacco are good for you either.

Yes and no. The literature seems to suggest that THC can essentially lower the activation threshold for those susceptible to schizophrenia from having their first break. In some cases, folks who might never have otherwise had active schizophrenia now will due to THC. In other cases, folks who would have not developed schizophrenia until 24 will now develop it at 18 (missing out on some formidable social and educational opportunities that will alter their standard of living and level of functioning for the rest of their life). In other cases, folks will have their schizophrenia activated at the same time as if they never smoked THC at all. In other cases, folks will never develop schizophrenia,

Our level of understanding about the dangers of things like alcohol is because it is well studied. THC is much less so. Physicians recommending THC in many cases are doing so on pretty dicey grounds. We need more research and the folks on the loud/obnoxious extreme on either end of this THC debate is really making things difficult for the rest of us. And our patients.



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Oh, you mean the addicts screaming for uncontrolled use?
 
fathertime1987 said:
I have to make a point if i may. Weed and mushrooms have never made anyone overdose, that's a fact. Pills? Diff story. When people start putting their hands on natural substances and chemically altering the composition, that can be detrimental as overdosing can be dangerous to the human body. Lsd for example, now that made my friend's personality change after 8 drops. (Since i am a dolphin) back before i came out the water and swam with other dolphins, we did copious amounts of mushrooms. No overdose because of the way psilocybin works. You take an 8th and start tripping hard/mind altering experience that opens up a new perspective (but it's like a good poison for the body one that it adapts to so if you keep eating mushrooms you don't even feel it any more. So you take a whole day or two break and then maybe you will trip again). Weed is similar in that you get really high but your body has a threshhold that does not allow overdosing/detrimental effects. How many people died from alcohol? How many from drug/pill overdose? How many from natural herb or mushrooms? Exactly.
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I used to have a similar point of view. Needless to say, it is overly simplistic when considering what the literature states and severely understates the impact that things like psychotic episodes, psychotic disease, etc. can have on one's life.

The key to all of these things is moderation. I don't think anyone would have a problem with the occasional blunt/joint/bowl because the degree of exposure is so low. In my experience, most people that use psychedelics typically do so in relative moderation. The person that drops acid on a regular, near daily basis is a rare breed. The "problem," as I see it, is that many cannabis users smoke it regularly, multiple times per day - to the point where many might spend much or most of their time not sleeping high. That kind of use pattern inevitably has consequences as the literature has shown us (just as drinking most of the day inevitably leads to problems).
 
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Shikima said:
Oh, you mean the addicts screaming for uncontrolled use?
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The implicit position behind this post is what exactly? That we should be in collusion with criminalization of drug use? Also what's the model of addition your using? Somebody wants the freedom to put stuff in their body and not go jail for it so that means they're an addict?

I'm flat for uncontrolled use. Unequivocally. And I haven't smoked or ingested MJ in years. Nor would I if It were legal.

This is cowardly. This tacit support of the Drug war because pot heads are losers. You really have to have your head all the way up your @ss to believe that's great preventative medicine.
 
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I think MJ is more damaging than most people inside and outside of medicine make it out to be. It's not a benign thing.
But the fact our country completely undercuts the future potential of so many young people based on MJ related legal problems is a massive problem. I don't have any research to cite, but the societal costs of criminalizing MJ is surely orders of magnitude higher than the problems that would be caused by legalization.
 
....
 
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Hahaa you have one source of a person with a heart transplant that died on shrooms? Thats a weak source. Then you have something in french or something that i could not understand then a person died 6-8 hours after? Thats the time it takes for the effect to wear off, so that does not make since, but let's blame it on shrooms since look it's in the blood so it has to be it. I ate 20 grams of shrooms one time and i was alone in my 3 story house i was laying on the floor and looked at a 25 pound barbell bench press weight piece and i could see and almost feel as if i was dead but the 25 pound weight metal piece was breathing and had an organism of its own. I then thought about death and passing on to a new excistence, but i could still look at all this as if a third dimension told me that this was a trip and i should enjoy it. So i went to a party and people looked into my eyes/pupils being huge and i felt as if they saw the devil inside me and all the noise of the music and what people were saying became slurred together. I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror-face pale and pupils super dilated then the mirror was breathing, i could not hear it, but i saw it breathing so i left. I still felt like i could be functional so i drove and it was awesome things were blending together outside the car, at night the trees and sky and the bright signs provided yellowish color to the dark green paint. The inertwined layers of diff paint outside provided a peripheral shock as my sight on the road was clear and i just felt a thrill that sort of dared me to peak at the chaos out the window even though i was clear on the road and the track that lead home was undeniable. **** was crazy all around nontheless and that was exciting and awesome. That's mushrooms for you the 3 people that died must have had some additives that were unpure and dangerous. If you were scared then you need to learn how to let go and realize that you cannot control the things that revolve around you, you are an entity controled by your environment, just like animals that are influenced by the changing forces of nature.
 
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.... edited with apologies for engaging a troll against my better judgement.
 
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Nasrudin said:
The implicit position behind this post is what exactly? That we should be in collusion with criminalization of drug use? Also what's the model of addition your using? Somebody wants the freedom to put stuff in their body and not go jail for it so that means they're an addict?

I'm flat for uncontrolled use. Unequivocally. And I haven't smoked or ingested MJ in years. Nor would I if It were legal.

This is cowardly. This tacit support of the Drug war because pot heads are losers. You really have to have your head all the way up your @ss to believe that's great preventative medicine.
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No, it was explicit that those who have the loudest and most verbose voice for using THC are often the ones who are addicts. You rarely see people demonstrate this kind of intensity for casual use. The evidence provided? Denial.
 
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Shikima said:
No, it was explicit that those who have the loudest and most verbose voice for using THC are often the ones who are addicts. You rarely see people demonstrate this kind of intensity for casual use. The evidence provided? Denial.
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Yeah I gotta agree with this sentiment. I support medical marijuana, as in properly evaluated, peer reviewed testing, pharmaceutically manufactured, dosage regulated, on prescription, whatever else I've left out, type medical marijuana. The only people I know who support 'medical marijuana' from the point of 'Yippee, time to legally pull some cones' are pretty much daily users to one degree or another (anywhere from 'I smoke a cone or two after work' through to 'I'm just going to surgically attach my hand to this bong and be done with it'. Social and former users of Marijuana seem to have a completely different take on the subject.

Shikima said:
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GOLD! :D
 
Shikima said:
Oh, you mean the addicts screaming for uncontrolled use?
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That's one end. The other is the folks that have demonized weed to the point that it has been understudied for potential medical uses.


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notdeadyet said:
That's one end. The other is the folks that have demonized weed to the point that it has been understudied for potential medical uses.


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We'll never know what we can craft from this plant unless we dissect it down similarly to the willow bark giving us aspirin, rather than boiling it and drinking bitter water.
 
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fathertime1987 said:
I have to make a point if i may. Weed and mushrooms have never made anyone overdose, that's a fact. Pills? Diff story.
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So if it makes you feel good and doesn’t kill you in overdose, it is OK? I have wasted a lot of research time looking at the safety profile of a lot of things. Who know we could end all of the stage III testing. :uhno:
 
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One would think that LSD would speed up psychosis more than marijuana as LSD causes hallucinations in "normal" users. My point was ETOH is a more lethal drug than THC .
 
F0nzie said:
It's like restraining oneself from feeding chubby squirrels at the Grand Canyon when the sign clearly says "do not feed squirrels".
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:laugh: That's actually a damn good analogy.
 
notdeadyet said:
That's one end. The other is the folks that have demonized weed to the point that it has been understudied for potential medical uses.


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Shikima said:
We'll never know what we can craft from this plant unless we dissect it down similarly to the willow bark giving us aspirin, rather than boiling it and drinking bitter water.
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Agreed on both points. Unfortunately the over the top demonisation of weed, particular in the past (Reefer Madness, anyone?) has made it more difficult in the here and now to not only have a proper, well considered discussion on the subject, especially if the discuss-ees happen to be on the, let's say more insistent ends of both spectrums, but to also educate and convince current, or even potentially future users of Marijuana that "well actually there are some risks, and no this is not a completely 1oo%, guaranteed 'safe for everyone' type herb to ingest". IMHO I think we need to find a middle ground style of communication, and presentation of the issue, that both sides of the aforementioned spectrums can actually connect with.
 
Shikima said:
THC needs to be properly researched rather than blindly saying, please go ahead and blaze away and be sure to try one of each variety out there. Equivalent to saying try some jack vs bud vs tequila vs Chianti to see what works best for you.
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Doctors have advised patients to have a glass of wine or other ETOH of choice for 100s of years. If a patient is not an addict, isn't that a relatively safe medication?
 
The discourse for Marijuana as a medicine is a bit of a red herring. Etoh also has some scant roles for use as a medicine.....more so during prohibition. ...but now just here and there as in methanol poisoning or whatnot. Old school surgeons locally used to prescribe elderly folks their daily tipple as well rather than have them tip into delirium post surgery and use benzos or whatnot. In the whole geriatric kind of don't disturb whatever homeostasis is left.

Point being that etoh has a couple reasons as medicine and now that there is repeal of prohibition it is mostly seen as a recreational drug.

Who knows what kind of medicinal purposes coffee would end up with if it became prohibited.

Marijuana is becoming legalized or decriminalized as a recreational drug and I prefer to look at it mostly that way rather than as some kind of medicine exclusively.

As a recreational drug there will be some suds and then there will be occasional users. There will be some who perhaps became psychotic quicker/at all....possibly more diagnosed due to Marijuana than is warranted by the literature brought up previously around the age 18 issue if that is correct. ...the idea that psychosis not increased by Marijuana in over 18 population vs 16-18 population.

The broader picture includes how many lives are destroyed through legal problems for something that is teetering on social acceptability. Who gets arrested is also interesting. Didn't see Clinton arrested for an admission of guilt around handling Marijuana whether he inhaled or not. Do see many young black men arrested for same with random car and person searches.

It's an issue but it's not necessarily primarily a medical one...that tactic is a bit disingenuous.
 
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My whole take on the "medical marijuana" thing is that I would rather have doctors treating illness as opposed to trying to manage addictions. If someone wants to ingest intoxicating substances to get high, that is their issue. If someone wants to use those same medications for another reason, then so be it. My patients who don't spend much time getting high (off any chemical) function better than those that do. I am glad that I can't prescribe anything so I don't have to get embroiled in that morass.
 
smalltownpsych said:
Doctors have advised patients to have a glass of wine or other ETOH of choice for 100s of years. If a patient is not an addict, isn't that a relatively safe medication?
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..and then we got it in pill form with the explanation that it was good and harmless. So much for iatrogenic cause.

Try taking away the little 'ol lady's nerve pill and see what kind of wrath you'll incur.
 
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smalltownpsych said:
My whole take on the "medical marijuana" thing is that I would rather have doctors treating illness as opposed to trying to manage addictions. If someone wants to ingest intoxicating substances to get high, that is their issue. If someone wants to use those same medications for another reason, then so be it. My patients who don't spend much time getting high (off any chemical) function better than those that do. I am glad that I can't prescribe anything so I don't have to get embroiled in that morass.
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I agree - and I would rather see MJ legalized fully over the run around of arguing its "medical" uses. I see the latter really as little more than a hurdle to get to the former anyway, though some states (Illinois comes to mind here) are highly limiting its use to particular medical situations.
 
I look at mind altering substances like any other full contact sport. If you're fat and out of shape don't climb into the ring with someone who can sling their shin bones with enough velocity to take your head off, just because you used take karate at the Y.

In our case if you're depressed and self-destructive watch out for alcohol. If your prodromal, schizo, or have a family hx of psychotic disorder watch out for weed. Don't do crack, meth, heroine, or Rx pain pills under any circumstances. If you want to sniff glue or inhale some other weird toxic **** your life probably sucks so bad that who am I to tell you what to do and what not to do.

As others have alluded to our model of addiction is colored by what what big brother has taught us to be afraid of. Even now, as weed is becoming a more socially acceptable drug we're much less likely to call a daily cocktail an addiction than a daily smoke of MJ.

Psychedelics are perhaps the best example of this. Addicition is not even a proper frame of reference to conceive of a dozen or few dozen transformative experiences. And yet just like trained and caged chimps we call them all "drugs" with the innuendo of bad juju while drinking coffee, after being hungover, taking a break to smoke a cigarette and call our shrink to re-up on that adderall.

Our poor lot of psychotic patients are not fit for perception altering substance use. So we talk to them as sensibly as we can. But we can't conscionably imprison high functioning people because of our patients' problems. That just doesn't make any sense. The more egg headed we argue the contrary the more obscenely out of touch we make ourselves.
 
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Actually, I revise my position. Cocaine may make you into an annoying a-hole, but it's not really as universally addictive as its portrayed. And perhaps for some brains it enables something productive. I'm holding my position on meth. The health consequences seem to contraindicate any benefits. And opiates transition from benefit to dependence too quickly to be a generally productive agent.

In other words I think we should be talking about all agents in terms of what they offer the user--and not just clinically but recreationally-- and what are the consequences. When we understand what a user is getting from the agent then we can begin to try to help them or not...if they're functioning well in terms of their goals and if their goals are well integrated into the human community.
 
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fathertime1987 said:
I have to make a point if i may. Weed and mushrooms have never made anyone overdose, that's a fact. Pills? Diff story. When people start putting their hands on natural substances and chemically altering the composition, that can be detrimental as overdosing can be dangerous to the human body. Lsd for example, now that made my friend's personality change after 8 drops. (Since i am a dolphin) back before i came out the water and swam with other dolphins, we did copious amounts of mushrooms. No overdose because of the way psilocybin works. You take an 8th and start tripping hard/mind altering experience that opens up a new perspective (but it's like a good poison for the body one that it adapts to so if you keep eating mushrooms you don't even feel it any more. So you take a whole day or two break and then maybe you will trip again). Weed is similar in that you get really high but your body has a threshhold that does not allow overdosing/detrimental effects. How many people died from alcohol? How many from drug/pill overdose? How many from natural herb or mushrooms? Exactly.
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Heroin?
 
An click bait title that lead to a troll war..THANKS OBAMA!
 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist, I mean it is sort of related to the topic at hand... :whistle:

 
Doing an insurance MD review from an addiction center and thought of this thread -

MD: Your patient has Opiate use d/o and any other diagnoses?
Me: Cannabis use d/o
MD: I read in the nursing assessment that it is only medical marijuana.....
Me: I'm not sure where you are located, but in Texas that is illegal and can result in a DSM5 upgrade in degree for + legal issues.
 
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TexasPhysician said:
Doing an insurance MD review from an addiction center and thought of this thread -

MD: Your patient has Opiate use d/o and any other diagnoses?
Me: Cannabis use d/o
MD: I read in the nursing assessment that it is only medical marijuana.....
Me: I'm not sure where you are located, but in Texas that is illegal and can result in a DSM5 upgrade in degree for + legal issues.
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That's definitely one of the biggest drug related problems in Texas. Not even close to the creation of a Narco State on your southern border and a complete breakdown of societal norms not unlike failed states experiencing civil war. For sure...its the Texas interpretation of insurance codes that's the real sticker.
 
Nasrudin said:
That's definitely one of the biggest drug related problems in Texas. Not even close to the creation of a Narco State on your southern border and a complete breakdown of societal norms not unlike failed states experiencing civil war. For sure...its the Texas interpretation of insurance codes that's the real sticker.
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Ignoratio elenchi fallacy.

My point was that people (even doctors) assume that medical marijuana can not be a problem. The nursing assessment and psych eval were littered with problems stemming from THC. It significantly impaired function to where a patient self-admitted to a treatment facility reporting it was 50% of the problem.

Physicians should not be pulling the "medical" marijuana card as justification to deny payment for substance abuse. If anything, taxes from "medical" marijuana states should help pay for addiction treatment.
 
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d2305 said:
One would think that LSD would speed up psychosis more than marijuana as LSD causes hallucinations in "normal" users.
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This is actually something I'd really like to understand/have an answer to myself. As someone who is diagnosed with a condition on the spectrum of Psychotic disorders (namely MDD with Psychotic fx) I have taken a fairly wide variety of hallucinogens in the past, including LSD, Bromo-DMA, Psilocyibin, and 2C-B, with no ill effects in terms of triggering a psychotic episode (barring any 'bad trips' of course, which obviously still don't necessarily equate to 'psychotic episode'), and yet smoking Cannabis did trigger a major psychotic episode for me. I've often wondered it's the actual drug itself, or the frequency of use that puts someone, especially those who are already predisposed, at risk.
 
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