Is a Masters Helpful

[deleted92121]

Here's the latest breakdown

per AACOMAS
cGPA 2.6
sGPA 2.9
* includes retakes

Doing well in a 32 credit Masters in Pharmacology and Toxicology from Michigan State Univ will bump my overall GPA to between a 2.9 and 3.0 with a science GPA over 3.3

Is this a good plan? I can only imagine doing well in a graduate program, perhaps two of them, would be a sufficient way to show lower-tier osteopathic schools with lower GPA requirements that I can handle the course load. Or am I mistaken?

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[SN12357]

Here's the latest breakdown

per AACOMAS
cGPA 2.6
sGPA 2.9
* includes retakes

Doing well in a 32 credit Masters in Pharmacology and Toxicology from Michigan State Univ will bump my overall GPA to between a 2.9 and 3.0 with a science GPA over 3.3

Is this a good plan? I can only imagine doing well in a graduate program, perhaps two of them, would be a sufficient way to show lower-tier osteopathic schools with lower GPA requirements that I can handle the course load. Or am I mistaken?

Graduate and undergraduate GPAs are calculated separately. A master's program will not improve your undegrad GPA and if your undergrad GPA is below a 3.0 you are likely to get autoscreened out. Take some additional undergraduate courses. Your best strategy will be grade replacement and applying DO.

 

[deleted92121]

Graduate and undergraduate GPAs are calculated separately. A master's program will not improve your undegrad GPA and if your undergrad GPA is below a 3.0 you are likely to get autoscreened out. Take some additional undergraduate courses. Your best strategy will be grade replacement and applying DO.

So it is better to take a bunch of undergraduate courses a la carte and then apply to medical school?

Do they all have to be science courses or can I just take courses in anything that interests me to boost my gpa?

I ask because once I retake a few courses my science GPA raises to around a 3.2. It is my overall GPA that stinks more.

 

[SN12357]

So it is better to take a bunch of undergraduate courses a la carte and then apply to medical school?

Do they all have to be science courses or can I just take courses in anything that interests me to boost my gpa?

I ask because once I retake a few courses my science GPA raises to around a 3.2. It is my overall GPA that stinks more.

No, they shouldn't be random interesting courses. You didn't demonstrate during your undergrad the academic qualifications for medical school. Therefore, you need to clearly demonstrate to admission committees that you have those skills now. Retake any prereq classes where you got lower than a B-, and then take additional upper level science classes. If you have Ds and Fs in non-prerequisite classes retaking those will help fix your GPA quickly as well. Sit down with your transcript and figure out the best way to rehabilitate your GPA using grade replacement.

If you can score well on the MCAT then an SMP might be an option to consider but you would have to weigh the very real risks carefully against the potential benefit. I don't know much about the specific of those programs and if it would still be a problem to have a sub-3.0 undergrad GPA after completing them.

 

[deleted92121]

No, they shouldn't be random interesting courses. You didn't demonstrate during your undergrad the academic qualifications for medical school. Therefore, you need to clearly demonstrate to admission committees that you have those skills now. Retake any prereq classes where you got lower than a B-, and then take additional upper level science classes. If you have Ds and Fs in non-prerequisite classes retaking those will help fix your GPA quickly as well. Sit down with your transcript and figure out the best way to rehabilitate your GPA using grade replacement.

If you can score well on the MCAT then an SMP might be an option to consider but you would have to weigh the very real risks carefully against the potential benefit. I don't know much about the specific of those programs and if it would still be a problem to have a sub-3.0 undergrad GPA after completing them.

Fair enough. Thank you for the advice. I will start taking a look.

 

[deleted92121]

Out of pure curiosity though do osteopathic schools screen based on undergrad GPA or cumulative GPA because I thought cumulative GPA for DO schools include both undergrad and graduate courses

 

[alpinism]

Out of pure curiosity though do osteopathic schools screen based on undergrad GPA or cumulative GPA because I thought cumulative GPA for DO schools include both undergrad and graduate courses

AACOMAS shows both a separate uGPA and gGPA plus a total cGPA of both combined. Most DO schools use the combined cGPA for screening purposes.

Most DO Schools use either a 2.75 or 3.0 screening cutoff. However, remember that this is the bare minimum. It is very unlikely to get an interview with a GPA that low unless you have a high MCAT and great ECs.

Most people would suggest the following:

1. retake courses with less than a B- (especially pre-reqs and science courses)
2. take upper division biological science courses (genetics, anatomy/physiology, immunology, virology, parasitology, etc...)
3. enroll in an SMP

You could also do a regular masters, however, just be aware that it won't hold as much weight as an SMP when it comes time to apply.

 

[deleted92121]

AACOMAS shows both a separate uGPA and gGPA plus a total cGPA of both combined. Most DO schools use the combined cGPA for screening purposes.

Most DO Schools use either a 2.75 or 3.0 screening cutoff. However, remember that this is the bare minimum. It is very unlikely to get an interview with a GPA that low unless you have a high MCAT and great ECs.

Most people would suggest the following:

1. retake courses with less than a B- (especially pre-reqs and science courses)
2. take upper division biological science courses (genetics, anatomy/physiology, immunology, virology, parasitology, etc...)
3. enroll in an SMP

You could also do a regular masters, however, just be aware that it won't hold as much weight as an SMP when it comes time to apply.

Thank you for the reply.

I'm hoping if by doing some retakes and approximately 50 credits of graduate work in upper level sciences that I'll be able to at least get to interviews. Additionally working hard to achieve a solid MCAT score is on my agenda. I already have some outstanding ECs and LOR.

I'll continue to work to improve my application until I achieve the goal.

 

[QofQuimica]

With a GPA that low, you're the kind of person who might really benefit from an SMP if you select one that is linked to a med school and you do well in it. High risk, high reward, because if you don't do well, you may dig yourself into an academic hole so deep that you'll never get yourself out of it. Alternatively, retaking UG classes where you got Cs, Ds, and Fs to replace those low grades via AACOMAS is a very reasonable strategy also. This will be somewhat slower but is also a safer, more assured route of remediating your GPA to be competitive for medical school applications. I wouldn't suggest doing a non-SMP MS. As others have already pointed out, you are a dude(tte) with something to prove in the classroom, and so you need to be in a venue where you will be able to prove that you've overcome your prior academic deficiencies.

 

[deleted92121]

With a GPA that low, you're the kind of person who might really benefit from an SMP if you select one that is linked to a med school and you do well in it. High risk, high reward, because if you don't do well, you may dig yourself into an academic hole so deep that you'll never get yourself out of it. Alternatively, retaking UG classes where you got Cs, Ds, and Fs to replace those low grades via AACOMAS is a very reasonable strategy also. This will be somewhat slower but is also a safer, more assured route of remediating your GPA to be competitive for medical school applications. I wouldn't suggest doing a non-SMP MS. As others have already pointed out, you are a dude(tte) with something to prove in the classroom, and so you need to be in a venue where you will be able to prove that you've overcome your prior academic deficiencies.

I am certainly retaking classes. 9 of them to be exact. Slow moving for sure but will get done. After all, it is necessary. Doing well in those bumps me up to the 2.9 range. That is getting acceptable though still low.

But here is the issue. With my GPA, there are few if any SMP that would accept me. I need some type of higher level science coursework. Taking a la carte UG courses is tough for me financially. No loans available. But I can get a loan for a Masters. Sure it isn't ideal but it is through a medical school though no direct linkage or guaranteed interview, etc. And it is focused on graduate level/higher level sciences including physiology and pharmacology. Surely there has to be some benefit to this. Though I have been mistaken in the past.

 

[alpinism]

Check out some of the DO SMPs as well as Drexel/EVMS/VCU.

A 2.9 GPA with a solid upward trend should get you into one of them.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ms-smps-postbacs-et-al-june-2009-list.640302/

 

[deleted92121]

Check out some of the DO SMPs as well as Drexel/EVMS/VCU.

A 2.9 GPA with a solid upward trend should get you into one of them.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ms-smps-postbacs-et-al-june-2009-list.640302/

That's great information thank you.

 

[wholeheartedly]

My big question here is what was the reason behind your previous poor performance?


The first problem with graduate school courses is that grades are generally considered to be highly inflated. Getting a C is the grad school equivalent of failing a class. So getting As in a bunch of graduate school classes isn't going to mean as much as you think it does. Most people get As in grad school. While there are some really challenging grad programs, unless it's one schools are very familiar with, schools aren't going to be able to differentiatethose from the ones with inflated grades.


Second, in you case, with your previous performance, I wouldn't assume you could do as well as needed in those classes. Pharmacology and toxicology aren't easy subjects. So depending on the reason behind your previous performance, it might be more risky to go this route.

 

[Mad Jack]

So it is better to take a bunch of undergraduate courses a la carte and then apply to medical school?

Do they all have to be science courses or can I just take courses in anything that interests me to boost my gpa?

I ask because once I retake a few courses my science GPA raises to around a 3.2. It is my overall GPA that stinks more.

You need to retake the courses you previously had poor performance in. With grade replacement, you can use this to boost your cGPA and sGPA over 3.2 ideally, bumping you over the cutoffs for most schools.

 

[deleted92121]

My big question here is what was the reason behind your previous poor performance?


The first problem with graduate school courses is that grades are generally considered to be highly inflated. Getting a C is the grad school equivalent of failing a class. So getting As in a bunch of graduate school classes isn't going to mean as much as you think it does. Most people get As in grad school. While there are some really challenging grad programs, unless it's one schools are very familiar with, schools aren't going to be able to differentiatethose from the ones with inflated grades.


Second, in you case, with your previous performance, I wouldn't assume you could do as well as needed in those classes. Pharmacology and toxicology aren't easy subjects. So depending on the reason behind your previous performance, it might be more risky to go this route.

Fair question about why such a middling performance.

Immaturity. Focus on my job/clinical experience. Dyslexia. Take your pick.

But I've had an upward trend. And I've done well in courses that are typically deemed tough. Earned an A in O-Chem 1 and 2. So its not like I can't succeed. I suppose that's a good sign.

And this masters is sponsored by an osteopathic medical school.

 

[deleted92121]

You need to retake the courses you previously had poor performance in. With grade replacement, you can use this to boost your cGPA and sGPA over 3.2 ideally, bumping you over the cutoffs for most schools.

Unfortunately the grades holding me down are in courses that I'm no longer able to take. My undergrad institution had a very unique and specialized major. Now that I've graduated they won't allow me to go back and retake them. So its not as simple as retaking. And considering I'm applying osteopathic only and based on my research, they tend to view masters in higher sciences in a more positive light than allopathic schools. It affects the cumulative GPA differently than MD schools. This could be beneficial.

Please don't think I'm being unappreciative. I'm just seeing so much different information and its overwhelming. I'm only trying to do what I think will be the most bang for the buck for my situation. But I'm here asking because I respect opinions of others who know more than I do.

 

[Mad Jack]

Unfortunately the grades holding me down are in courses that I'm no longer able to take. My undergrad institution had a very unique and specialized major. Now that I've graduated they won't allow me to go back and retake them. So its not as simple as retaking. And considering I'm applying osteopathic only and based on my research, they tend to view masters in higher sciences in a more positive light than allopathic schools. It affects the cumulative GPA differently than MD schools. This could be beneficial.

Please don't think I'm being unappreciative. I'm just seeing so much different information and its overwhelming. I'm only trying to do what I think will be the most bang for the buck for my situation. But I'm here asking because I respect opinions of others who know more than I do.

I don't think you're being unappreciative- your situation is unique.

I'm going to agree with the above poster. Your best bet is probably a linked DO SMP. LECOM's Master of Biomedical Sciences program is probably your best bet- I can't find any minimum GPA cutoff, they only require a 1000 on your GRE, and the program allows direct matriculation into their DO program. It's the only linked one I know if that might take someone with your GPA off the top of my head. Sure, it's two years long, but realistically your looking at a year of grade repair before most one year SMPs will take you, so it's probably a two year road no matter what.

Just my two cents- I'd definitely solicit as many opinions as you can on the matter c and thoroughly research the linked SMPs out there.

http://lecom.edu/master.php/Biomedical-Sciences-Master-of-Science-Degree-Curriculum/49/2205/615/2724

 

[deleted92121]

Okay since we are talking of retakes.

I can retake a number of classes at my local CC. No biggie. Probably take most of them actually.

But schools want me to do well in UG higher level science courses. I'm not in an area or position to take them at a university due to travel and finances.

So what about upper level science courses at someplace like UC Berkeley Extension. Online yes but doing well does boost the UG GPA. Is this a decent idea instead of pursuing a Masters?

 

[Goro]

<3.0 for both GPAs will get you autorejected from my school, and most others except the newest. I recommend not a research style masters, but a SMP. They're a dime a dozen....PCOM, Drexel, Rosy Franklin, Mt Sinai, TUCOM-NV, Georgetown and more all have them. Be prepared to relocate if needed.

Out of pure curiosity though do osteopathic schools screen based on undergrad GPA or cumulative GPA because I thought cumulative GPA for DO schools include both undergrad and graduate courses

 

[deleted92121]

<3.0 for both GPAs will get you autorejected from my school, and most others except the newest. I recommend not a research style masters, but a SMP. They're a dime a dozen....PCOM, Drexel, Rosy Franklin, Mt Sinai, TUCOM-NV, Georgetown and more all have them. Be prepared to relocate if needed.

Yes but those post-bacs require > 3.0 GPA.

And this masters in pharmacology and toxicology is not a research masters and is sponsored through Michigan State University SOM.

Doing the masters and doing well puts my cumulative and science GPA at least at the 3.0 mark

 

[deleted92121]

So took the initiative to write to some medical schools and ask them about how they view a masters program in relation to a lower undergrad GPA. Here are some responses (note that these are DO only)

DMU: Look at entire app but mostly the last 60 credits including graduate coursework

PCOM: Evaluate entire transcript. Graduate work is weighted same as UG.

LMU: View graduate work in sciences very highly and can make up for lower UG.

ATSU: Graduate coursework can help outweigh low UG with a good MCAT and EC

More to come from UNE, LECOM, and a few others

 

[Goro]

I think that you'll find this is true for most DO schools. We believe that good performance in an MS program (SMPs being the ideal) show that the you of now is not the you of then. Right off the bat, TUNCOM, PCOM and TUCOM-CA have MS programs designed to be a bridge into med school.

So took the initiative to write to some medical schools and ask them about how they view a masters program in relation to a lower undergrad GPA. Here are some responses (note that these are DO only)

DMU: Look at entire app but mostly the last 60 credits including graduate coursework

PCOM: Evaluate entire transcript. Graduate work is weighted same as UG.

LMU: View graduate work in sciences very highly and can make up for lower UG.

ATSU: Graduate coursework can help outweigh low UG with a good MCAT and EC

More to come from UNE, LECOM, and a few others

 

[deleted92121]

I think that you'll find this is true for most DO schools. We believe that good performance in an MS program (SMPs being the ideal) show that the you of now is not the you of then. Right off the bat, TUNCOM, PCOM and TUCOM-CA have MS programs designed to be a bridge into med school.

Some of those MS programs don't utilize retakes in their GPA for admission.

Well I am doing the M.S. in Pharmacology and Toxicology plus retaking Gen Chem I&II and Physics I&II

Maintaining a 3.5 GPA in these gets me to a GPA above 2.85 and a science GPA around 3.4
Hopefully this will get my foot in the door for direct admission or put me in contention for a SMP at a DO school