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Is getting into an osteopathic school hard/prestigious?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by McDablo, Jan 31, 2012.

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  1. McDablo

    McDablo

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    I have recently received acceptances to Touro University's osteopathic program and and Touro College's osteopathic school in NYC. I have been getting a whole bunch of osteopathic interviews but not one single MD interview. I feel like I am short-changing myself by considering osteopathic school, that it is not as prestigious as MD school. Should I feel this way and will becoming an osteopath reduce my job opportunities in the future?
  2. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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  3. flight24

    flight24

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    Prepare to get flammed. In the case that this is a legit question, the answer is what you make out of it. It's really a mental thing and up to you. If you actually think/believe that DO schools are inferior to MD schools, then you know your answer.
  4. HotandCold

    HotandCold Senior member

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    Getting into DO schools is difficult, but more forgiving than MD schools. Upper tier DO schools can be relatively similar in selectivity to MD schools.

    No. Being a DO gives you unrestricted scope of practice. In fact, if you wish, you can choose to do an MD residency provided you take the USMLE's along with COMPLEX.

    It's not less prestigious. And you're not going to make less money. Who becomes a physician for prestige? Kind of seems like an outdated train of thought.
  5. MrNovember

    MrNovember

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    Getting into medical school is difficult period. Think about how many pre-meds there were when you started out and dropped when they failed Gen Chem. The pre-meds who failed Organic. Or the MCAT. Or didn't even get an interview. There are so many steps along the way where people do not make it. Many medical schools have acceptance rates ranging from 1-10%.

    Really the only difference between MD and DO admissions is the MCAT, IMO. MD schools have strict cut-offs and place more emphasis on it, especially Ivy league schools. But even then a lot of DO schools have higher average MCATs than MD schools. So give yourself a break over something that won't matter outside of the pre-med community.
  6. Mbeas

    Mbeas Hi I'm Kate

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    And you applied to DO schools because...?
  7. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    You don't have to take the USMLE to do an MD residency, although taking it will give you more opportunities. And for the love of A.T. Still, it's the COMLEX, not the COMPLEX.
  8. Iliketoytles

    Iliketoytles

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  9. DrMediterranean

    DrMediterranean

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    +1
  10. donkeykong1

    donkeykong1

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    the 1985 version is my fave.
  11. drgioiadds

    drgioiadds DDS c/o 2002; DO c/o 2016

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    Hmmmmm..:scared:
  12. FutureDoctorrrr

    FutureDoctorrrr

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    :thumbup::thumbup:
    :thumbup::thumbup:

    Try getting into the osteopathic branches of MSU or UMDNJ....and then tell me how "easy" it was to get in....

    My troll sense is tingling!!
  13. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    Yep. Don't go DO. You probably wouldn't be happy as a DO so don't waste the spot when someone out there is dying to have it. Try again next year, but only apply to MD programs.

    But I have to ask. If you didn't get a single MD interview, why do you think you are short changing yourself?
  14. SLC

    SLC Lock, Step, & Gone

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    I can't wait till this joker is up to his elbows in DRE's and Pelvic exams, we'll then ask him how "prestigious" he feels.

    I seriously don't understand this mentality.
    mct2762 likes this.
  15. WaterDragon

    WaterDragon

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    Whichever route you go, you have to work hard to be where you want to be. Both routes will give you what you want. Also, in the medical community, DO equals MD as a liscened physician who is serving the patients. I was in a similar feeling like you did after I read MD vs DO debate here on SDN, but I realized that even though if you go to MD, you have to do really well in school and boards, etc to be where you wanted. Obviously, it is a reality that there are more post-graduate positions for the non-primary care specialties via MD route, but you have to work butt off to either get your choice of ACGME or AOA residency position.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  16. TriagePreMed

    TriagePreMed Removed

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    Exactly, I don't know why people who feel they'd be troubled by having an Osteopathic degree/education even bother applying. If I seriously would be unhappy with a D.O. degree, I'd rather spend 1+ years becoming stronger and reapplying to M.D.
  17. MrBird

    MrBird

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    Ummm it's because everyone in the MD forums tells weak applicants to consider DO schools, which they do. I mean everyone feels bad about having to rely on a backup plan, that's why they're backup plans.
  18. DocGodfather

    DocGodfather

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    I agree:thumbup:
  19. aSagacious

    aSagacious Send in the clowns Moderator Emeritus

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    Personally, I enjoyed the loading screen in Super Mario 64 where you got to stretch his face around. Kept me busy for hours as a kid. :D
  20. GimpGenius

    GimpGenius

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    Well... if you're more interested in the letters behind your name, then yeah, you're probably not going to feel as "prestigious" (whatever that means). If you want to be a physician, on the other hand, I'd suggest concerning yourself with the "Dr." before your name.

    The issue, as I see it, is this: do you want to go to a prestigious school, or do you want to be a physician? If it's the former, re-apply for MD schools after some serious soul-searching about why you want to pursue medicine. If you just want to practice, take the acceptance(s), kick some tail in your coursework/COMLEX/rotations, and be the best physician you can be.
  21. Mbeas

    Mbeas Hi I'm Kate

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    This doesn't address the comment you quoted. If you aren't happy becoming a DO, then DOn't (see what I did there?) apply. Period. Regardless of what the ****fest Pre-Allo forums say, why would you knowingly risk engaging in a career (or in this case, it's really just initials) that you feel unhappy about, especially when you are making a 200k+ investment?

    And WTH. "Everyone" doesn't feel bad about resorting to Plan B. Some people are ecstatic just to have the opportunity.
  22. Mbeas

    Mbeas Hi I'm Kate

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    :thumbup: Can't argue here.
  23. MrBird

    MrBird

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    I did address the comment I quoted. The comment was:

    "Exactly, I don't know why people who feel they'd be troubled by having an Osteopathic degree/education even bother applying. If I seriously would be unhappy with a D.O. degree, I'd rather spend 1+ years becoming stronger and reapplying to M.D."

    And I said people are troubled with a DO degree because it's a backup. It's a direct answer to the question. I even followed up by explaining WHY (i.e. having to fall on a backup plan is less desirable). Maybe not everyone feels "bad" about having to go to Plan B, but everyone would definitely feel worse than if they got to use Plan A. So I don't understand what you don't get about my post.

    And also to the rhetorical questions above ("do you want to be a physician or do you want to have prestige?"): You can have both. Not everyone that chooses to go to a top 20 MD school is less of a person, in it for the money/recognition, or is somehow going to be a worse doctor than a DO. Don't you think there are just as many students who care about serving people as much as you at Harvard or Hopkins? Don't you think there are plenty of MD/PHD candidates at UCSF or U of Chicago who choose a life of research instead of caring about money?

    Stop with the self-preservation crap.
  24. DrWily

    DrWily

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    For any informed, intelligent person (who I would assume the typical pre-med to be), they would know that doing the D.O. route is not and should not be a back up plan to MD schools. It should be an ALTERNATE route to the same end goal (becoming a physician). The backup plan for gung-ho MD-hopefuls is and always will be applying to a Post-Bacc program or SMP to boost grades. If the problem is one of a low MCAT score, then there are also programs like Kaplan or other courses to help prepare. After taking these courses, and still getting <28 on the MCAT, then their only choices left are D.O. and Caribbean. There is no backup plan here. They weren't good enough to get into MD school, so how can they feel bad about being given the chance to still be a physician? They didn't cut it in the MD world, so what's there to feel bad about? They should be happy that D.O. schools exist so that they can have another chance at becoming a physician. If there were no D.O. schools, or Caribbean schools, there would be a lot less physicians.

    If the student's stats are good enough for MD school, and yet they still fail to achieve acceptance, then there are bigger issues at play that they should address. No one is forcing anyone to apply to D.O. school. Anyone, and I mean anyone, with enough time and perseverance can and will get accepted into an MD school IF they want it badly enough. For people like myself, the time and effort needed to achieve such a goal is not worth putting off an acceptance to a D.O. US Medical School. It is not a backup plan for me; rather, it is the only plan because I know my weaknesses and where I can realistically hope for matriculation.

    EDIT: The problem is when people apply to MD and DO schools and consider D.O. schools as inferior. Why even apply to D.O. schools if you're not willing to go? Whats the point? Please enlighten me. Also, we're all getting trolled by the OP. "osteopath"
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  25. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    And using this exact same logic, just because someone went to a top 20 MD school doesn't mean they will make a better doctor than a DO. And choosing DO doesn't mean you are less of a person. And there are DOs in it for the money/recognition. There are people that care as much as me at Harvard and Hopkins, yes. But also at KYCOM, KCOM, and every DO school. And MD school.

    And to some DO is a plan A. And to others, they are so worried about MD vs. DO, that they only have a plan A.

    I guess I am not sure what the point of your post is. You didn't address Triage like Mbeas said. He was asking why people apply to DO schools at all if they won't go there. It is a valid statement. Hence my post. And I would tell this to anyone. If you can't see yourself as a DO, don't apply DO. It is really simple. It is why I didn't apply to podiatric schools this cycle. Even if I didn't get into DO schools, I wouldn't want to be a podiatrist. It isn't about being forced to go plan B.

    I also am confused when people's plan A doesn't work and they say "screw plan B, trying A again." Why even have a plan B in the first place?
  26. lacrosse87

    lacrosse87 OMS-2

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    Ugh I didn't want to have to get involved. I don't normally ever 1) get involved with online fighting because it's pretty pointless and 2) involved in the MD/DO cock comparing contests on SDN

    But cummon dude, you're coming into a DO specific forum and calling our future schools and career path "plan B?" And this isn't the only thead I've seen on this site where you're doing this. I've seen you say the word "prestige" in posts quite a few times. Seems like "prestige" is something that you value highly, and in turn look down on other's without this "assumed prestige." You kind of remind me of a chick I used to be friends with that told me she'd "never marry a guy unless he was 'educated,' specifically Ivy 'educated'." Sooo superficial...

    Hate to say it, but don't you have anything better to do with your time? I'm starting to wonder if you're just deliberating trolling or trying to stir the pot

    Of course, you're entitled to whatever opinions you have. I just don't understand your desire to....share it so much haha
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  27. MrBird

    MrBird

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    You don't get what I'm saying. You keep asking "what is there to feel bad about?" So I bolded the answers to your question in your quote above.

    Yes people should feel lucky DO/Caribbean schools exist. That doesn't mean they won't feel bad about not getting into an MD school. What is so difficult about that concept? And I'm not attacking you for going to a DO school. But literally everyone in this thread seems flabbergasted by why a student would not as feel as good about going DO as they would if they went MD, and I don't think I can be any clearer.
  28. MrBird

    MrBird

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    My first post in this thread answers your question. People choose to apply DO because that's what we advise them to do here on SDN. And perhaps they did it out of personal obligation and didn't realize how much it bothered them. Why is that so offensive? Maybe it isn't a Plan B to you, but for some people it is. There's no reason to berate them for it, though.
  29. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    No it doesn't. You answered "why apply DO?" However you didn't answer, "why apply DO if you would not go DO if you got accepted to one and not MD?" Two very different questions. The latter is what we are discussing and the former is what you are defending.

    I don't go into threads bash Akon, or Neyo, or Chris Brown, or whatever crappy pop singer is in your avatar, so why come on here and discuss DOs when you have no valuable input on the matter?
  30. DrWily

    DrWily

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    The way the OP presents his case is the problem. He mentions that he has received multiple DO interviews, and not one MD interview. This leads me to conclude that he is NOT good enough for MD standards, and should consider himself LUCKY to have MULTIPLE DO interviews.

    "I feel like I am short-changing myself by considering osteopathic school, that it is not as prestigious as MD school."

    He's only worried about the "prestigious" MD schools, and feels like he's "short-changing himself." Is he really short-changing himself, if he cannot even get an interview to an MD school?

    It's pretty obvious that 90% of us (backed up by some data, somewhere) would rather go M.D. than D.O. If given the chance to go M.D., you bet your ass I'd be there even if it was in BFE. However, I do not feel BAD about not going to M.D. schools since I wasn't qualified in the first place. That is what I'm trying to say. How can you feel bad if you can't even make it in?
  31. MrBird

    MrBird

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    I've used the word prestige because that's what the focus of this thread was about. I'm not even commenting on my own beliefs. People on hear blatantly asked "why would someone feel bad about going DO?" I gave an answer and a bunch of posters decided to respond to me and I felt obligated to clear up their confusion. I'm not trolling or stirring the pot. I gave a rational explanation that some people are choosing to reject for reasons I don't know.

    For the record I didn't say your DO school was a plan B for everyone, but it is for the people who "feel bad" about not getting into an MD. Okay? I fully acknowledge that some people choose DO schools as their primary option. I GET IT. This entire thread is not about those people. It's about those that don't see it as a primary option.
  32. Loudster

    Loudster

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    Answered before I was able to post...
  33. MrBird

    MrBird

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    Again, I just answered your question a few posts above. These people chose to apply DO initially because they are advised to do so by some sdn posters. Then, they realize afterward how it bothered them, so they choose not to attend the DO school. Here's the quote from my post:

    "And perhaps they did it out of personal obligation and didn't realize how much it bothered them."

    Would they have been better off realizing this BEFORE they applied DO? Yes, obviously. But not everything in life works out at the best times.
  34. p1acebo

    p1acebo Another day in quicksand.

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    I certainly hope that isn't the only reason, because if it is these people have bigger issues to address.

    Quite frankly you sound like a troll to me. Maybe you should be using your time to study so you can get into med school instead of having trivial arguments on SDN.
  35. MrBird

    MrBird

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    Please read responses in their entirety. Here's what was written:

    "For the record I didn't say your DO school was a plan B for everyone, but it is for the people who "feel bad" about not getting into an MD. Okay? I fully acknowledge that some people choose DO schools as their primary option. I GET IT. This entire thread is not about those people. It's about those that don't see it as a primary option."

    No one is saying YOU SHOULD FEEL SECOND RATE. THIS THREAD IS NOT ADDRESSING PEOPLE LIKE YOU. But there ARE people who DO feel like they "settled." You can be okay with that or not. But don't be angry towards someone who doesn't feel the same way. Btw I'm not one of those prestige whores and I go to a bottom ranked MD school and I was rejected by my top choice DO school. So chill. I've been trying to play devil's advocate but some people have been too defensive to see that I just wanted to provide a hypothetical voice to the other perspective.
  36. MrBird

    MrBird

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    How am I a troll? Should every response to the questions on this thread be only things you agree with?

    I'm saying all this despite being on your side. I don't get what your problem is.
  37. MrBird

    MrBird

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    Holy crap dude. I just wrote 4 responses answering SPECIFICALLY the questions that were presented on this thread. That's not valuable? I don't believe DO schools are Plan B's. I am saying for some people (e.g. the OP), it is. WHY THE F*CK IS THAT SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO GRASP?

    Q: Why do students apply DO if they only really wanted MD
    My A: because some have been told they should apply DO as a back up (fully admitting that for some people DO is not actually a backup)

    Q: Should I feel like I settled? Don't you think there are crappy MDs or as many good students in DO schools as there are in MD schools?
    My A: No, no one is saying you should feel like you settled. But for some people, mainly the ones that decided to reapply rather than take a DO acceptance, it does feel like that. And yes, there are ****ty MD students.

    There. Summarized that sh*t so you don't have to respond.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  38. DrWily

    DrWily

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    The issue is that we, as future osteopathic students, do not want people to come to our schools with mental issues like the OP has. If the person has no intention of going to a D.O. school given the opportunity, then why even apply? Why do it? Because SDN told you to? So if I told you on SDN to give me 1 million US Dollars, would you do it?

    We get that D.O. schools are a backup for some people. We understand that. However, coming to our schools with a negative attitude about MD vs DO does not help anyone. I'd rather you stay at home and work on getting into MD school than "settle" for D.O. school and possibly affect my education.

    All I'm saying is (and other people have said this too), is that if the OP has such high reservations about attending a D.O. school, then stay away, and reapply next year. I don't care if he feels bad, it's obvious that he's not in the right mindset to attend a D.O. medical school. Simple.
  39. MrBird

    MrBird

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    i agree. it's just incredibly frustrating when I had to explain myself 5-6 times because someone automatically assumes I must be bashing their life choices if I'm offering an explanation to the OP's perspective.
  40. physcigirl27

    physcigirl27

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    omg yes, I think I messed around with that more than the actual game !

    Students that care about "prestige" might, but I know plenty of people (4 off the top of my head) that turned down their MD acceptances to go to a DO school because of money, location, family, philosophy or whatnot.

    Like Dr. Wily said, I know my stats suck because I had a lot of other things going on in my life during ug. Maybe if I wasn't dealing with sick family, financial troubles, juggling 3 jobs at the same time, I MIGHT have a chance at MD. Maybe. But in the long run I don't care. I get to be a dr. I don't even have a DO acceptance yet but I have nothing but appreciation for the fact that I'll hvae a chance to do what I wanted to do without having to spend another 5 years trying to dig myself out of my really huge hole I managed to dig in the past 4 years.

    Also, I don't know about anyone else, but the only time I DO feel kind of bad about not being able to go MD is when i come on here and have to read really douchey comments that keep going on and on and on and on about how DO schools suck and they're not equivalent and you can't be competitive and blah blah blah. But then I realize that I'd rather die than have that type of a person be my physician in the future and I feel better.

    If someone doesn't want their acceptance because it's not up to par according to them, I'll GLADLY take it off their hands. :p

    But for reals, be happy/grateful that you have the chance to be a doctor--something that most people (including me) on here would do anything for. And tbh, how "glorious" and "prestigous" could a profession REALLY be when it requires you to stick your fingers into people's butts.


    BTW: I'm not trying to blast the OP but this general sentiment is SO FREAKING ANNOYING. Especially when peopel that HAVE acceptances whine about how their MULTIPLE acceptances aren't good enough because they're not MD.
  41. LieutenantDan

    LieutenantDan

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    My 2 cents:
    DO is just as good (and sometimes better) than MD if your goal is patient care, which both degrees ultimately train you for. If all you want to do is research and minimize patient contact, MD will likely lead to more options should you choose that career path, but there are several DO programs that do have impressive research opportunities.
    Part of the reason why DO schools are often easier to get into is that they are almost all private, whereas most MD schools are public and favor in state applicants but accept highly qualified OOS applicants too.
    But differences aside, the degrees are growing more and more similar. DO schools are getting more and more competitive, residencies and other countries are becoming more and more accepting of DO's, and the majority of MD's I have spoken with have a lot of respect for DO's as colleagues. In fact, I have three MD's in my family, all of whom speak of a few DO's they believe to be among the best doctors period. Also many allopathic schools are moving towards a more holistic biopsychosocial focus like DO programs, and some have even added OMT rotations (including Harvard PM & R).
    Some MD programs have been changing their admissions qualifications and MCAT is somewhat less important than it used to be, and EC's are becoming hugely important at some schools. At my top choice MD program, what would have previously been marginal or average candidates are now being admitted for excellent life experiences or EC's, and conversely candidates with excellent GPA/MCAT stats but subpar or average EC's are receiving more rejections. My brother is a 4th year surgery resident at my top choice for MD, and his biggest complaint is the increased focus on EC's, he jokes about how one of his co-residents "might make an excellent soccer player but he makes a sh**ty doctor." Also I have found that at the big research universities some (maybe many) of the faculty can seem a little arrogant.

    But I digress, if your goal in medicine is money or prestige, then you will probably be disappointed in either field as these values are on the decline in the profession. The respect you gain as a physician will ultimately be earned through your daily interactions and not from your school or the letters after your name.
  42. shaosoldier

    shaosoldier

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    1991 all the way, loved super nintendoooooo
  43. MrBird

    MrBird

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    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    NYC
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    MD/PhD Student
    I agree. But you can't be angry that that's how some people feel. The same way you can't hate someone for different religious beliefs. As fervent as you are about your beliefs, someone else can be just as convinced of the opposite.
  44. Loudster

    Loudster

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    139
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Yeah, you wrote that response while I was writing my post... hard to "read in its entirety" what's not there at the time ;)
  45. 235788

    235788 God Complex

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
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    The Slab
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    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Zing!
  46. JohnnyRomanes

    JohnnyRomanes wussup doge

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
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    2,902
    Location:
    Miami
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    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I'm usually at the allo section, and when I apply, I do plan on taking an MD would probably be more favorable to a DO, but provided I don't get accepted to any MD, and I get accepted to a DO, you best believe I'm taking that spot!
    I would not want to do another cycle.
    I'm not really looking for a competitive residency, and I couldn't care less about the stigma.
    MD is probably more favorable location-wise for me, along with it being more cheaper.
    I don't plan on practicing internationally either, so DO is also a good choice for me, along with the fact I go to a university with a DO school.
  47. EMT2ER-DOC

    EMT2ER-DOC Why so Serious?????

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,311
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    The OP did what he came to do which was cause a stir and fighting and the like. Just ignore this thread and move on. He posted the same exact question on another pre med forum and is just out to cause problems. Either close this thread or let it die a natural death by not even replying anymore.
  48. jphwki82

    jphwki82

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    1. 2 Acceptances to D.O. school, kudos to you on the acceptances. On the other turn feel sorry for the med schools that did except you.

    2. The MD schools caught on the your crappy personality sooner. Quite possibly the reason you didn't get MD interviews, but that is only speculation based on your DB post.

    3. "Prestigious," feeling a little bit inadequate are you? Nothing a shiny new sports car wouldn't fix for some small people. If only Princeton opened up a D.O. school. There is more to being a physician than prestige, a lot more.

    4. Should you feel this way? No, but you do never the less.

    5. Will being an "osteopath" reduce your job opportunities in the future? Being a "doctor of osteopathic medicine" will not limit your opportunities in the future, considering you will still be a "physician" all the same. Please refer to the SDN search function to look at further comments regarding this issue. The only thing that really stands in your way for the future is this whole crapy perspective that you apparently have.

    6. You got into medical school, which is hard for most. The best medical school for you is the one that accepts you.
  49. n3xa

    n3xa "the anchor"

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
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    1,920
    Location:
    Pomona, CA
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    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I am here for the Princeton DO degree.
  50. Dharma

    Dharma

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,743
    Location:
    The Path of the Righteous, man.
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Really not that much of a difference between the international practicing rights of US MD and US DO. Both are pretty limited as well.

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