With the exception of some Neurosurgery programs that allow up to 88 hrs/week, every other ACGME accredited program caps their residents at 80hrs/week as averaged over four weeks. So you can work 85 hours one week but then it has to be less than that later on, to bring you to no more than 320 hours in any 4 week rotation. There's certain circumstances where it is fewer: emergency medicine residents on emergency medicine rotations get capped at 60 hours/week.I said RESIDENTS
This has nothing to do with Pre-Allo
It had nothing to do with medical school either since you posted it in the Allo forum and insisted you were talking about residency.This has nothing to do with Pre-Allo
80 hour work weeks hurt education. It also pushes handoffs which hurts patients.
Lots of 13 hr shifts x 6 days a week. Or some days 16 hours and some 10 hrs for interns at least.Can someone explain to me how these 80 hour shifts are supposed to work? Are you really doing 80 hr. of hard work every week? Also, wouldn't this system be detrimental to the health of the residents in both the short and long term, and this also to the health of the patients being treated by tired residents?
Lots of 13 hr shifts x 6 days a week. Or some days 16 hours and some 10 hrs for interns at least.
The 80 hour week was created out of patient safety issue, there used to be no cap.
Sure if you want to add years onto training.That still sounds very unhealthy. Why not 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? or four 12 hour shifts per week?
Sure if you want to add years onto training.
My father shares this view. When he was a resident he never went under 100hrs/week. He feels today's physicians don't work enough hours and need more training coming out80 hour work weeks hurt education. It also pushes handoffs which hurts patients.
Solid username for this post.looks like it will be very difficult to be married or in a relationship while in medical school or residency. The spouse will either divorce you or start cheating on you if you do 6 13 hour shifts a week and then sleep all day on your 1 day off.
My father shares this view. When he was a resident he never went under 100hrs/week. He feels today's physicians don't work enough hours and need more training coming out
looks like it will be very difficult to be married or in a relationship while in medical school or residency. The spouse will either divorce you or start cheating on you if you do 6 13 hour shifts a week and then sleep all day on your 1 day off.
He missed the birth of my brother and I, but many old school physicians considered the hours as a right of passage and necessary for training. He said since resident hours changed he and others he has spoken with have noticed a difference in the preparedness of new physicians.how can someone work 100 hours or more per week and still have a decent standard of life? If the number of training hours are that important, then I think it's better to extend the number of years of residency then work in such inhumane unhealthy conditions.
Lots of 13 hr shifts x 6 days a week. Or some days 16 hours and some 10 hrs for interns at least.
The 80 hour week was created out of patient safety issue, there used to be no cap.
16 hours isn't that long. Interns are capped at that. Residents at 24-30 hours. The thing about high quality care is debatable as some would argue the guy who has been with the patient and admitted them on hour 20 is better than the night float guy who may have gotten a 30 sec history on the guy during signout and is "fresher".But that's what I'm saying. Maybe it's because I'm inexperienced, but how can someone be expected to give a high quality of care if they've been running around doing stuff for the last 16 hours? And this isn't even a very small group of people that it's being asked of, but what seems like every medical resident.
16 hours isn't that long. Interns are capped at that. Residents at 24-30 hours. The thing about high quality care is debatable as some would argue the guy who has been with the patient and admitted them on hour 20 is better than the night float guy who may have gotten a 30 sec history on the guy during signout and is "fresher".
But that's what I'm saying. Maybe it's because I'm inexperienced, but how can someone be expected to give a high quality of care if they've been running around doing stuff for the last 16 hours? And this isn't even a very small group of people that it's being asked of, but what seems like every medical resident.
Like I said someone who knows the patient well vs someone cross covering?So what's worse for patients, residents falling asleep and functionally drunk from sleep deprivation treating them or more handoffs between residents who are in appropriate shape to treat them?
Also, why should patients' interests be considered alone? What's humane for residents and enables them to best learn, develop competent practice habits, and maintain their health (in all forms)?
looks like it will be very difficult to be married or in a relationship while in medical school or residency. The spouse will either divorce you or start cheating on you if you do 6 13 hour shifts a week and then sleep all day on your 1 day off.
To be honest I'd rather do my 80 hours with a few 30-hr shifts rather than a bunch of 16s.
If the number of training hours are that important, then I think it's better to extend the number of years of residency then work in such inhumane unhealthy conditions.
After you pass 12 hours you just kind of stop caring. It's like you get kind of numb to it. The difference between 8 and 12 is huge, 8 and 16 massive, but between 12 and 24? My whole day's already gone, why not. Hell is 80 hour weeks split over 12 hour shifts.To be honest I'd rather do my 80 hours with a few 30-hr shifts rather than a bunch of 16s.
That still sounds very unhealthy. Why not 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? or four 12 hour shifts per week?
Sure if you want to add years onto training.
This is hilarious, just wait till your a private practice physician and work ( pager call, home call and actual hospital call) greater than 80 hrs/ week consistently! THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.
Can you expand on this? Does the long length of the shifts + lack of sleep not affect education?
I like that there is a limit....after all, residents do have lives and don't wish to be in the hospital for insane amounts of times.
Can someone explain to me how these 80 hour shifts are supposed to work? Are you really doing 80 hr. of hard work every week? Also, wouldn't this system be detrimental to the health of the residents in both the short and long term, and this also to the health of the patients being treated by tired residents?
That still sounds very unhealthy. Why not 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? or four 12 hour shifts per week?
So what's worse for patients, residents falling asleep and functionally drunk from sleep deprivation treating them or more handoffs between residents who are in appropriate shape to treat them?
Also, why should patients' interests be considered alone? What's humane for residents and enables them to best learn, develop competent practice habits, and maintain their health (in all forms)?
So what's worse for patients, residents falling asleep and functionally drunk from sleep deprivation treating them or more handoffs between residents who are in appropriate shape to treat them?
Also, why should patients' interests be considered alone? What's humane for residents and enables them to best learn, develop competent practice habits, and maintain their health (in all forms)?
There is no hour limit for med students.
What's the history behind the 80 hr week? Who changed it, when, and why? Is the general consensus in the medical community that it was a bad change?
It all started with Libby Zion and the Bell Commission.What's the history behind the 80 hr week? Who changed it, when, and why? Is the general consensus in the medical community that it was a bad change?
It all started with Libby Zion and the Bell Commission.
Short story: young drug addict dies in New York City hospital in 1984 without being honest about her recent drug usage. Her well-connected, well-to-do father blames work hours as the cause of her death. Investigation ensues, the state of New York institutes work hour restrictions and despite no evidence that it reduces errors and increases patient safety, in 2003 the rest of the country followed suit.
The most vociferous voices against the change are non physicians, premeds, med students, and physicians in specialties that traditionally work low hours. Most physicians start to realize once they get into training how much there is to learn such little time
Are we stuck with this change now? Is there an effort to have it reversed or is the status quo cemented at this point? It has only been about a decade or so.