Is using Adderall without perscription cheating?

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student12x

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Is it actually considered cheating by university administrators as in they can expel you for same reasons as plagiarizing a paper?
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student12x said:
Is it actually considered cheating by university administrators as in they can expel you for same reasons as plagiarizing a paper?
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Not sure if it's considered cheating, but it certainly is illegal.
 
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How would you get caught doing this? If you were going to do it then don't be an idiot about it, don't take it in the middle of a class or when anyone else is around.

It's sort of an impossible thing to prove...I mean I don't think the school has the right to drug test you for something like that...
 
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Getting caught taking Adderall without a prescription (which is like..rare) would leave you with more things to worry about than academic dishonesty.. a drug charge may or may not end your med school dreams.
 
Tired said:
I'd worry more about getting a nice little drug conviction with subsequent loss of Federal student aid.
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not to mention that flooding your system with amphetamines for no particular reason isn't exactly the most health-conscious decision you could make.


If you cant get thru undergrad without drugs you will probably /suicide in med school.
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Indeed.
 
Don't get hooked!
 
It may not be cheating, but it is f'in stupid.
 
It's not cheating, but it is addictive. It also messes with your heart. Don't do it.
 
Tired said:
Don't you watch cops? People don't get caught using drugs, they get caught acquiring them.
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Hmmm...I've never heard of the cops busting up an adderall drug ring but I guess it could happen...

I thought the only way kids got caught doing this was because the were dumb*sses and put videos up on youtube or something else equally stupid
 
You want to obtain medication that you don't need from an unlicensed and illegal source in order to gain a competitive advantage over your peers? I don't see anything wrong with that. Go for it. :thumbup:
 
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foster033 said:
Hmmm...I've never heard of the cops busting up an adderall drug ring but I guess it could happen...

I thought the only way kids got caught doing this was because the were dumb*sses and put videos up on youtube or something else equally stupid
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People get caught for all sorts of reasons. You could get caught buying it. You could get overseen taking a pill without your name on the bottle. Someone could snitch on you. You could get arrested for something stupid a friend does while you are with them (drunk driving) and happen to have them on your person, in your car, backpack etc. You could get into an accident and it could be found among your things when the police are taking you to the ED. Lots of people end up victims of their own foolishness. Taking a prescription medicine without a prescription is a crime, and one that can affect your future far more than being able to study a few more hours for a physics test. Not to mention the health implications -- ALL MEDS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS. This isn't an exception, notwithstanding what users like to post on SDN. If you don't have an actual medical reason to take a prescription med, it's actually a pretty bad idea to be taking it.
 
as long as your not doing crack in the back of the classroom or injecting morphine (through a squirt mechanism) into your arm during the exam you should be fine.


disclaimer: IANAL.
 
Eight years from now we're going to see a post in the physicians' lounge that says, "Is it bad to give yourself narcotics just to take the edge off?"
 
seriously, baby... I can prescribe anything I want.

new4goodvc7.gif
 
Law2Doc said:
People get caught for all sorts of reasons. You could get caught buying it. You could get overseen taking a pill without your name on the bottle. Someone could snitch on you. You could get arrested for something stupid a friend does while you are with them (drunk driving) and happen to have them on your person, in your car, backpack etc. You could get into an accident and it could be found among your things when the police are taking you to the ED. Lots of people end up victims of their own foolishness. Taking a prescription medicine without a prescription is a crime, and one that can affect your future far more than being able to study a few more hours for a physics test. Not to mention the health implications -- ALL MEDS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS. This isn't an exception, notwithstanding what users like to post on SDN. If you don't have an actual medical reason to take a prescription med, it's actually a pretty bad idea to be taking it.
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Legally it's a bad idea, but the doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea in all respects. Prescription med are converted to over the counter meds all the time... Taking a prescription med without a prescription is a crime, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.

yeah, all meds have side effects, but most of the really bad ones are extremely rare. If your only taking adderall once in a while to study you probably wouldn't run into any problems that someone who was prescribed the drug legally would, as long as you are smart about it and figure out correct dosage and whatnot...abusing the drug is another thing entirely, but taking it without a prescription does not necessarily equate to abuse. Most of the people I've seen abuse adderall are the people who actually have a prescription for it but snort large amounts on the weekends.
 
foster033 said:
LTaking a prescription med without a prescription is a crime, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
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Um yeah it does. Committing crimes is wrong. Which is why we punish people for doing so. There is really not much ethical gray area here. That some things that were once a crime may no longer be isn't a strong argument for committing what is currently a crime.
 
foster033 said:
Legally it's a bad idea, but the doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea in all respects. Prescription med are converted to over the counter meds all the time... Taking a prescription med without a prescription is a crime, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.

yeah, all meds have side effects, but most of the really bad ones are extremely rare. If your only taking adderall once in a while to study you probably wouldn't run into any problems that someone who was prescribed the drug legally would, as long as you are smart about it and figure out correct dosage and whatnot...abusing the drug is another thing entirely, but taking it without a prescription does not necessarily equate to abuse. Most of the people I've seen abuse adderall are the people who actually have a prescription for it but snort large amounts on the weekends.
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Why do you need it to study so bad? Cant focus without it? How do you think your patients would feel about that? Is it wrong for a surgeon to go into the operating room slightly intoxicated because he would otherwise be too depressed to do his job sufficiently?
 
Law2Doc said:
If you are getting wasted on Adderall, you are taking way way too much.
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I believe Tired was illustrating a parallel example about alcohol.
 
bodonid said:
I believe Tired was illustrating a parallel example about alcohol.
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Gee, you think? :laugh:
Certainly alcohol isn't something one should abuse, and as a med student and physician you will be dealing with the negative effects of chronic alcoholism (hopefully in your patients). But using it isn't illegal, so long as you don't get behind a wheel or a scalpel.
Nor would anyone suggest that alcohol use in studying was cheating, or even particularly helpful. :)
 
Law2Doc said:
Um yeah it does. Committing crimes is wrong. Which is why we punish people for doing so. There is really not much ethical gray area here. That some things that were once a crime may no longer be isn't a strong argument for committing what is currently a crime.
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A law and something being right or wrong are not the same thing...which is why laws get overturned all the time.
Taking about the law is completely different than talking about if something is morally or ethically wrong. Yes, taking prescription meds w/o a prescription is illegal but that doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong. You're making the argument that all laws are just...which we all know is not the case.

chessknt87 said:
Why do you need it to study so bad? Cant focus without it? How do you think your patients would feel about that? Is it wrong for a surgeon to go into the operating room slightly intoxicated because he would otherwise be too depressed to do his job sufficiently?
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:laugh:I've never taken the stuff...if I was ever going to take drugs it would be something to relax me not make me more uptight... I'm neurotic enough already...lol.

I really have no vested interest in adderall being illegal or not. I just get bothered when people assume that something must be wrong just because it's illegal. It doesn't work like that.
 
foster033 said:
A law and something being right or wrong are not the same thing...which is why laws get overturned all the time.
Taking about the law is completely different than talking about if something is morally or ethically wrong. Yes, taking prescription meds w/o a prescription is illegal but that doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong. You're making the argument that all laws are just...which we all know is not the case.
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Laws can be ethically moral or immoral. But violating a law is always technically "wrong" because you are violating a societal rule. Which is why we punish for violating laws, not for behaving unethically or immorally. Ethics and morals are the underpinning of laws, so yes in general when something is criminalized, a decision has been made by society that it is "wrong" to do such act. Laws do get overturned (hardly "every day"), but until they do, it is wrong to violate them. Justice is a different concept and has nothing to do with laws. One thing they quickly teach you in law school is that "justice has no place in a court of law". Justice is a concern of legislation and enforcement, not of application. It's about application of the laws that dictates what is right/wrong to do. So yeah, it's a big semantic quagmire. But in fact if you violate a law you are deemed a criminal and will be punished. By most people's definitions, and that of the legislature, what you have done is "wrong", although you can make nonpersuasive and nonwinning arguments that you were acting moral, ethical or just. But you still lose, game over -- you committed a "wrong". So yeah, taking prescription drugs without a prescription is a crime, and thus wrong. doesn't matter that your morals or ethics may remain intact, or if you feel the law is unjust, you are still going to get booked if caught.
 
OP, I don't think it would be considered cheating. Also, just because it is illegal does not make it wrong. A glance at world history will teach you that. Morally, I think that you should make an informed decision and trust your own judgement.

As a disclaimer, I don't recommend doing anything illegal.
 
foster033 said:
I just get bothered when people assume that something must be wrong just because it's illegal. It doesn't work like that.
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Illegal means wrong. Look in any thesaurus and you will see "wrongful" is one of the first synonyms for illegal. That is why we punish for it. Ethics and morals and justice may or may not jibe with what the law says. There are legitimate ways to try to change unjust or immoral laws, but violating the laws are not an acceptable route for change, and always wrong. So yeah, I think you are hung up on incorrect semantics. Laws address actions, and violating the laws is by definition "wrong". The law may be a bad one, but violating it is societally deemed worse.
 
I don't think it's a matter of "cheating" at all. Actually, it is in FACT not a matter of cheating - whether you have a prescription or not.

The first question is whether you have bonafied <sp?> ADD or not. If you do, then it's definitely FAR from cheating - even without a current prescription. If you don't, then it's no more cheating without a prescription than it is with a prescription. Either way, I don't see it as cheating.

Taking stimulants raises your pulse and blood pressure and messes up your sleeping patterns. These are things a person must consider before taking them... Still, if you do decide to take them, and it helps you learn the material better, then you are making yourself a more learned medical scientist for your future patients.

I think sometimes we forget that this ISN'T a competition amongst physicians or physicians-to-be (even if the AMA and medical schools want to try to foster the sense that it is about this)... It is a mission to equip ourselves with the best tools we can to provide optimal healthcare to other human beings. Whatever you have to do to put yourself in a position to do that, so long as it hasn't been PROVEN beyond much doubt that it will harm you in the long run, I say more power to you.

It's not about cheating anymore guys. This is the real deal. Whatever it takes [within reason] to offer competent care.
 
Law2Doc said:
Illegal means wrong. That is why we punish for it. Ethics and morals and justice may or may not jibe with what the law says. There are legitimate ways to try to change unjust or immoral laws, but violating the laws are not an acceptable route for change, and always wrong. So yeah, I think you are hung up on incorrect semantics. Laws address actions, and violating the laws is by definition "wrong". The law may be a bad one, but violating it is societally deemed worse.
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There are a lot of revolutionaries and historical figures who might disagree with that
 
Kaydubz said:
There are a lot of revolutionaries and historical figures who might disagree with that
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True, but the successful ones usually had a large support base (or a lot of guns/knives/spears), suggesting that societal norms had changed such that the laws were no longer representative of collective ethics/values.
 
Kaydubz said:
There are a lot of revolutionaries and historical figures who might disagree with that
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Yeah, and most of them were jailed at some point in their careers. They were only deemed revolutionaries after the laws were changed, until that point they were deemed criminals who had acted wrong. there are likely quite a few folks in jail now who feel themselves unrecognized revolutionaries protesting bad laws. Society deems them having committed a wrong, though.

But hey, if you want to martyr yourself over laws prohibiting illegal use of prescription drugs, go for it. Just know that society will deem you committing a crime and in the wrong.
 
Law2Doc said:
Illegal means wrong. Look in any thesaurus and you will see "wrongful" is one of the first synonyms for illegal. That is why we punish for it. Ethics and morals and justice may or may not jibe with what the law says. There are legitimate ways to try to change unjust or immoral laws, but violating the laws are not an acceptable route for change, and always wrong. So yeah, I think you are hung up on incorrect semantics. Laws address actions, and violating the laws is by definition "wrong". The law may be a bad one, but violating it is societally deemed worse.
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No, illegal means illegal.
Right and wrong are moral or ethical statements. In kindergarten, they teach you that sharing is the right thing to do, and that being nice to classmates is the right thing to do, and that it's wrong to lie or be mean to your friends. None of these things are illegal - they are moral or social guidelines.

To some, breaking laws is morally or ethically wrong. To others, breaking laws is simply illegal with no moral consequences.
 
foster033 said:
A law and something being right or wrong are not the same thing...which is why laws get overturned all the time.
Taking about the law is completely different than talking about if something is morally or ethically wrong. Yes, taking prescription meds w/o a prescription is illegal but that doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong. You're making the argument that all laws are just...which we all know is not the case.
Click to expand...

Probably better to argue 'law' with someone who doesn't have 'JD' behind their name.
 
Myuuchan said:
True, but the successful ones usually had a large support base (or a lot of guns/knives/spears), suggesting that societal norms had changed such that the laws were no longer representative of collective ethics/values.
Click to expand...

And as such, violating them to change them shouldn't be considered "wrong" and may even be "acceptable." Perhaps it's wrong to the ones supporting the status quo, but those two words are so subjective anyway.
 
Kaydubz said:
And as such, violating them to change them shouldn't be considered "wrong" and may even be "acceptable." Perhaps it's wrong to the ones supporting the status quo, but those two words are so subjective anyway.
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Right. In the post-revolutionary society those people are in the clear. :thumbup:
 
Law2Doc said:
Laws can be ethically moral or immoral. But violating a law is always technically "wrong" because you are violating a societal rule. Which is why we punish for violating laws, not for behaving unethically or immorally. Ethics and morals are the underpinning of laws, so yes in general when something is criminalized, a decision has been made by society that it is "wrong" to do such act. Laws do get overturned (hardly "every day"), but until they do, it is wrong to violate them. Justice is a different concept and has nothing to do with laws. One thing they quickly teach you in law school is that "justice has no place in a court of law". Justice is a concern of legislation and enforcement, not of application. It's about application of the laws that dictates what is right/wrong to do. So yeah, it's a big semantic quagmire. But in fact if you violate a law you are deemed a criminal and will be punished. By most people's definitions, and that of the legislature, what you have done is "wrong", although you can make nonpersuasive and nonwinning arguments that you were acting moral, ethical or just. But you still lose, game over -- you committed a "wrong". So yeah, taking prescription drugs without a prescription is a crime, and thus wrong. doesn't matter that your morals or ethics may remain intact, or if you feel the law is unjust, you are still going to get booked if caught.
Click to expand...

Once again...I never said it wasn't illegal or you wouldn't get arrested and be punished if caught. What I did say is you cannot draw the conclusion you draw above, that if something is illegal it's automatically wrong. Illegal means you can't do something without the fear of getting punished, wrong implies that it's morally or ethically bad. You assume that if something is illegal it's morally or ethically bad...that's a logical fallacy.

That's all I'm trying to say...laws don't make something right or wrong, they make something punishable...different things. Most drug laws are not based on informed views of society's they're purely political.
 
lainapox said:
No, illegal means illegal.
...
To some, breaking laws is morally or ethically wrong. To others, breaking laws is simply illegal with no moral consequences.
Click to expand...

Illegal means that which society has deemed "wrong". Ethics and morals and justice may be underpinnings of laws. If you focus solely on ethical or moral consequences you may have a clear conscience, but often can end up in jail for committing a wrong. You have to realize that ethics, morals and laws are three different and sometimes disconnected things. But the bold statement of the prior poster that "Taking a prescription med without a prescription is a crime, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong." is simply inaccurate. Crimes are wrong -- society through its legislature has spoken and deemed it so. That you have morals, ethics that differ isn't going to make this legislated wrong a right.
 
Myuuchan said:
Right. In the post-revolutionary society those people are in the clear. :thumbup:
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And in those societies where the revolution doesn't take, those folks rot in prison for having committed a wrong. You have to go with the CURRENT judgment of your actions, because odds are that that's what you are going to face. If you take your illicitly obtained adderall in hopes that you will be considered a pioneer rather than a criminal, I think you are going to be sadly disappointed.
 
Law2Doc said:
Um yeah it does. Committing crimes is wrong. Which is why we punish people for doing so. There is really not much ethical gray area here. That some things that were once a crime may no longer be isn't a strong argument for committing what is currently a crime.
Click to expand...


That must be a product of our perfect legislative process............. Bwahahahahaha.
 
foster033 said:
What I did say is you cannot draw the conclusion you draw above, that if something is illegal it's automatically wrong. Illegal means you can't do something without the fear of getting punished, wrong implies that it's morally or ethically bad. You assume that if something is illegal it's morally or ethically bad...that's a logical fallacy.
Click to expand...

If something is illegal it means society has deemed it wrong. So yeah, committing a crime is wrong. Society has made it so. And so they will punish you when caught. I'm saying it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER IT IS MORALLY OR ETHICALLY BAD, which is why I don't fall into the "logical fallacy" you describe. Ethics and morals MAY be underpinnings of the law, but they needn't be. The law is your legislature saying "this is wrong, don't do it". So saying it is a crime but not wrong simply doesn't work unless you are saying you are answering only to a higher judge, who works on ethics, morals, etc. But in the US you have to answer to a human judge and he will go by the laws as to whether what you did was wrong.
 
Law2Doc said:
And in those societies where the revolution doesn't take, those folks rot in prison for having committed a wrong. You have to go with the CURRENT judgment of your actions, because odds are that that's what you are going to face. If you take your illicitly obtained adderall in hopes that you will be considered a pioneer rather than a criminal, I think you are going to be sadly disappointed.
Click to expand...

No one is arguing that being "wrong" in the judicial sense as you have deemed it won't land you in a jail cell. It's more like an argument about the definition of a word.
 
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