Joining Military to pay for psy d

[nd08]

Now I was just accepted into a psy d program and it crossed my mind that I could join the military to get tuition and other stipends but I have questions about what is involved. Do I have to go through any training while in school or do I just get the checks and then serve my 3 years? Also, how much is the pay during those 3 years after I graduate.

Basically, besides them paying for tuition, what are the other financial benefits? Will I have to work during my vacations (spring break, fall break, summer, etc..)?

thanks

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[glasscandie]

Now I was just accepted into a psy d program and it crossed my mind that I could join the military to get tuition and other stipends but I have questions about what is involved. Do I have to go through any training while in school or do I just get the checks and then serve my 3 years? Also, how much is the pay during those 3 years after I graduate.

Basically, besides them paying for tuition, what are the other financial benefits? Will I have to work during my vacations (spring break, fall break, summer, etc..)?

thanks

As far as I understand it (I asked my husband, he's an officer in the Army), there would be two things you could do. You could join the military as an officer, but you'd still have to go to officer school, basic training, and job training, which could be anywhere from 6 months to a year in length altogether. If you did it now, you'd be ready by next fall, but if you're accepted for this coming fall (09) you probably wouldn't be able to get it all done. Basic training is between 9-10 weeks, and officer school is 3 months. Job training can be anywhere from a month to a year, b/c you have to sign up with a particular MOS (type of job). After all that you might be able to go to your school and have the military pay for it (either in your contract or GI Bill), BUT you have to pay back twice the amount of time it takes to do your degree. 6 years of Psy.D program = 12 years of military service.

Another option would be to go to school as a civilian, and join the military (if you're interested in serving, which I guess was the point of the thread) and either have it in your contract to do loan repayment, or use your GI Bill to pay off your loans.

HTH.

 

[cara susanna]

Honestly, I'm not sure it's worth it. My brother-in-law joined the military to pay for med school and it just adds more complications to what's already a very stressful situation. I mean, not that I don't find military service very noble, but I would definitely weigh out the costs and benefits if you're only considering joining for money.

 

[deleted176373]

Now I was just accepted into a psy d program and it crossed my mind that I could join the military to get tuition and other stipends but I have questions about what is involved. Do I have to go through any training while in school or do I just get the checks and then serve my 3 years? Also, how much is the pay during those 3 years after I graduate.

Basically, besides them paying for tuition, what are the other financial benefits? Will I have to work during my vacations (spring break, fall break, summer, etc..)?

thanks

One Caveat: If you believe that you would hate living in the military, this is probably NOT a good idea regardless of how good the money is!


You have to go one summer to a "baby" basic training course that lasts about 5 weeks. For the Navy however you don't have to go through the APPIC process as you will get a guaranteed placement in Portsmith, VA for your internship. As I just broke down the numbers (and finances are important, I will repost that information here.)

Given the choice between 5 weeks of basic training and APPIC, I would take 5 weeks in basic training every time!!!!


Your internship year, assuming that you have NEVER been in the military would be (assuming Navy stationed in Portsmith, VA) over $60,000. Worst case, over $57,000 for the USAF internship in San Antonio.

After your second year in uniform you would be making at least $6,000 more a year. Which represents a ~10% raise, the year after that, you get another raise. In the case of the Navy in Portsmith VA, you would be making just north of 70k per year (67k in San Antonio.)

Plus you get 30 days per year of paid vacation and health care is paid for. Not to mention, you don't have $100k of debt hanging over your head. The math is EASY to do.

Assuming your education was a $1000 month in loans over what you would pay if you didn't get an HPSP scholarship and you got a VA internship at $40k. You would still be way behind the military person in terms of salary.

Civilian over first 4 years

Year 1: 40k internship - 12k loans = 28k
Year 2: 60k Job - 12k loans = 48k
Year 3: 65k Job - 12k loans = 53k
Year 4: 70k Job - 12k loans = 58k

Total Net = 187k

Military over first 4 years (Salary + Housing allowance)


Year 1: 60k internship - 0k loans = 60k
Year 2: 60k Job - 0k loans = 60k
Year 3: 65k Job - 0k loans = 65k
Year 4: 70k Job - 0k loans = 70k

Total Net = 255k

By my math, you would be probably 70 ahead, not counting the tax benefits of being military where ~$18,000 is tax exempt. My civilian numbers are not unrealistic, if you get 60k your first year out of internship, you are doing quite well.


Mark

 

[bobsagat]

i got into a PhD program that was cheaper, but I was considering one school that I would take out significant loans for and looked at this option. DO NOT forget the risk you take of being deployed because that is a real risk. They quite often send military psychologists to Iraq and Afghanistan. I talked to some people who were doing it and they realized it was a definite possibility given the US's political situation. If you are going to do it, make sure you ARE NOT just doing it for the money because I considered it and realized I was more for the monetary recompense than the actual experience. You also often have little choice over where you get placed for your payback years. (There are maybe 5 bases that you rank in preference) All that said, if you are really into the military thing, it is a great opportunity to serve.

 

[deleted176373]

You also often have little choice over where you get placed for your payback years. (There are maybe 5 bases that you rank in preference) All that said, if you are really into the military thing, it is a great opportunity to serve.

That's not quite true and VERY service dependent. That said, all the Navy interns I talked to (4 or 5 of them) at Bethesda got one of their top two choices with maybe one exception.

Rough assignments like Japan, Pensacola, San Diego, etc... Great Lakes was a sucky one, but someone really wanted it as their #1 choice and got it. The girl going to Japan ranked it #1, and the one going to Pensacola may have ranked it 3rd or 2nd.

That said, once they tell you where you are going, you don't have much of a choice and you can get deployed. Navy was doing 6 month stints last I checked and those were about 75% likely to occur to any psychologist within the Navy once licensed. The Army will send you for a year to 16 months, and the Air Force.... well they think that 3 months is plenty long.

It's all VERY service dependent. Join the Army, live an Army life... Join the USAF, and your more likely to deploy to a hotel than a war zone. Navy is somewhere in between. The psychologists who have gone seem to be pretty positive about their experiences there. Yes, it sucks to a certain point, but it's what we get paid to do as well.

Mark

 

[glasscandie]

That's not quite true and VERY service dependent. That said, all the Navy interns I talked to (4 or 5 of them) at Bethesda got one of their top two choices with maybe one exception.

Rough assignments like Japan, Pensacola, San Diego, etc... Great Lakes was a sucky one, but someone really wanted it as their #1 choice and got it. The girl going to Japan ranked it #1, and the one going to Pensacola may have ranked it 3rd or 2nd.

That said, once they tell you where you are going, you don't have much of a choice and you can get deployed. Navy was doing 6 month stints last I checked and those were about 75% likely to occur to any psychologist within the Navy once licensed. The Army will send you for a year to 16 months, and the Air Force.... well they think that 3 months is plenty long.

It's all VERY service dependent. Join the Army, live an Army life... Join the USAF, and your more likely to deploy to a hotel than a war zone. Navy is somewhere in between. The psychologists who have gone seem to be pretty positive about their experiences there. Yes, it sucks to a certain point, but it's what we get paid to do as well.

Mark

That's not necessarily true, either, it depends which unit you're attached to at which base. My husband's unit only deploys for 3 months, and not very often - we've been here 2 1/2 years and he's never gone over, and in the military for 5 1/2 years and he's never gone period. My neighbor's husband is in the AF and he was gone for 16 months. Just depends on the job, or if you're attached to an infantry unit, I think.

 

[deleted176373]

That's not necessarily true, either, it depends which unit you're attached to at which base. My husband's unit only deploys for 3 months, and not very often - we've been here 2 1/2 years and he's never gone over, and in the military for 5 1/2 years and he's never gone period. My neighbor's husband is in the AF and he was gone for 16 months. Just depends on the job, or if you're attached to an infantry unit, I think.

I am referring to Military Psychologists specifically, and while I will agree there is some variation, there are general trends that each of the service have tended to fall into.

Mark

 

[ladysky61]

Deleted.

 

[aspiretobephd]

I have actually done a lot of research on this. Clinical and Counseling psychologists are able to get HSPS (graduate health scholarships) while in graduate school.

There is a lot of information available online. Here is the website: http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/hpsp.jsp

You must be enrolled in an APA accredited program in order to qualify for a scholarship. There are many benefits including full tuition + monthly stipend. There are summer requirements during which you will be paid as a 2Lt (about 3k per month). I suggest you check it out for yourself and talk to a recruiter. The people on this thread are misinformed. Read every detail in your contract if you decide to go for it.

Once nice thing about the program is that if you enroll you are automatically guaranteed an APA accredited internship through the military. However, if you decide to take advantage of this, it adds a considerable amount of time to your commitment. Make sure to clarify this before you sign anything.

Finally consider that by time you are of any use to the military it will likely be 7 years from now. You must be licensed, have graduated and completed your 2 years of supervision, before you start paying back your commitment. From what I understand you will not deploy before you are licensed. No way to predict what the international situation will look like by then.

 

[deleted176373]

I have actually done a lot of research on this. Clinical and Counseling psychologists are able to get HSPS (graduate health scholarships) while in graduate school.

There is a lot of information available online. Here is the website: http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/hpsp.jsp

You must be enrolled in an APA accredited program in order to qualify for a scholarship. There are many benefits including full tuition + monthly stipend. There are summer requirements during which you will be paid as a 2Lt (about 3k per month). I suggest you check it out for yourself and talk to a recruiter. The people on this thread are misinformed. Read every detail in your contract if you decide to go for it.

Where am I misinformed, I would not want to continue to pass out erroneous information. Please be specific when you say people on this thread are misinformed... who is misinformed and about what specifically.

Once nice thing about the program is that if you enroll you are automatically guaranteed an APA accredited internship through the military. However, if you decide to take advantage of this, it adds a considerable amount of time to your commitment. Make sure to clarify this before you sign anything.

Where did you get that from?

Last I heard was the military internship did not add to the commitment. Of course, I imagine this is service dependent, but I don't remember Col Crow (specialty leader for Army Psychology) saying anything like that when he briefed us at USUHS on how the pipeline worked.

Finally consider that by time you are of any use to the military it will likely be 7 years from now. You must be licensed, have graduated and completed your 2 years of supervision, before you start paying back your commitment. From what I understand you will not deploy before you are licensed. No way to predict what the international situation will look like by then.

You don't have to have 2 years supervision, you only need 1 to get licensed in some states (LA, WA). Additionally you are correct you will not get deployed until you are licensed, but your payback time does not start until you are licensed. That said, you can take 2 years to get licensed in the state of your choice, and this policy is Army specific. The rules are different for the people with Navy HPSP scholarships.

Mark

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Current Intern
HPSP Recipient
Army
6 Years enlisted prior service

Ask Away.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Ask Away.

Where do babies come from?

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Where do babies come from?

Yellow.

 

[aspiretobephd]

Where am I misinformed, I would not want to continue to pass out erroneous information. Please be specific when you say people on this thread are misinformed... who is misinformed and about what specifically

You seem to be well informed about USUHS. It appears that some respondents were not aware of HSPS scholarships. The two are two very different things. Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with this analogy, but HSPS is the graduate school form of ROTC, where as USUHS (if you are on the military track) is the equivalent of attending West Point or the Naval Academy. Your training in USUHS is much more military focused and the commitment is much longer when you are done than the HSPS scholarship taken without the military internship option. There is however a civilian side of USUHS where there is no military commitment, correct? I am referring to the commitment side of the USUHS.

Last I heard was the military internship did not add to the commitment. Of course, I imagine this is service dependent, but I don't remember Col Crow (specialty leader for Army Psychology) saying anything like that when he briefed us at USUHS on how the pipeline worked.

The USUHS pipeline is different from the HSPS pipeline. I received my information from a senior ranking Army Psychologist, who I am not going to name publically on this forum. These rules do change, so like I said, everyone should read and know what they are agreeing to before they sign anything.

You don't have to have 2 years supervision, you only need 1 to get licensed in some states (LA, WA). Additionally you are correct you will not get deployed until you are licensed, but your payback time does not start until you are licensed. That said, you can take 2 years to get licensed in the state of your choice, and this policy is Army specific. The rules are different for the people with Navy HPSP scholarships.

My knowledge is limited to Army practices. But like I said, I encourage anyone who is interested in going this route to talk to a recruiter. Maybe 73BARMYgsp can help us clarify some things.

What exactly is the time commitment one owes the army after taking an HSPS scholarship? Is that time commitment different if you decide to take a military internship? How is USUHS training different from HSPS training?

Thanks 73BARMYPgsp!

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

CPIP (Clinical Psychology Internship Program) is not "optional" in the Army in the sense I think you mean it. If you receive HPSP, you are required to apply to and rank all 5 of the Army sites, as your first 5 choices. While there is a possibility you will not match to one of them, it is not likely. The Army (rightly so) considers the HPSP an investment and will do everything in it's power to match you at one of the sites after they have spent all that money on you. In this sense they bend the NMS guidelines to make that happen.

Having said that, it wouldn't matter anyway. Your payback to the Army does not begin until after you get your license and it is 3 years. So if you got a civilian deferment for internship, and then got your license, you would still owe 3 after that. This would result in your committment ending at the same time. One could argue that the active duty time during internship is time you give to the Army for "free" I guess, but it pays better than almost every internship out there. And, if you are planning on staying in , it counts toward pay and retirement.

 

[deleted176373]

You seem to be well informed about USUHS. It appears that some respondents were not aware of HSPS scholarships. The two are two very different things. Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with this analogy, but HSPS is the graduate school form of ROTC, where as USUHS (if you are on the military track) is the equivalent of attending West Point or the Naval Academy. Your training in USUHS is much more military focused and the commitment is much longer when you are done than the HSPS scholarship taken without the military internship option. There is however a civilian side of USUHS where there is no military commitment, correct? I am referring to the commitment side of the USUHS.

I would hope that I am well informed about USUHS, I go there everyday. You are right that the USUHS program is very different than the HPSP program. HPSP, is not quite like ROTC, but that's the closest analogy that fits. Where USUHS is analogous to West Point or Annapolis for military medicine, but entirely different in character from a West Point or Annapolis environment. The civilian graduate students not only have no military commitment, they have no commitment to anyone. Free and clear.

As to our training, there is a military component and focus, but the focus is on clinical psychology from a Psycho/Bio/Social model. The commitment is roughly 11 years total including the time spent in school in uniform.

Although USUHS gets lumped into one category, the experience for clinical psychology students is very different than that of the medical school. There is only a small cadre of psychology students and we are not in the same spotlight that the medical students are under.

The USUHS pipeline is different from the HSPS pipeline. I received my information from a senior ranking Army Psychologist, who I am not going to name publically on this forum. These rules do change, so like I said, everyone should read and know what they are agreeing to before they sign anything.

Col Crow was discussing the HPSP students pipeline, not the USUHS pipeline. It is possible that I misinterpreted some points, but it was a discussion specifically discussing the challenges with recruiting and retaining military psychologists.

I agree that you should carefully read your contract, it will specify all the details and what the service commitments are.

My knowledge is limited to Army practices. But like I said, I encourage anyone who is interested in going this route to talk to a recruiter. Maybe 73BARMYgsp can help us clarify some things.

What exactly is the time commitment one owes the army after taking an HSPS scholarship? Is that time commitment different if you decide to take a military internship? How is USUHS training different from HSPS training?

Thanks 73BARMYPgsp!

These are all great questions... And getting the input of someone who is doing or has done the program is the best way to get the most accurate information.

To answer your questions about how USUHS is different from HPSP would probably take getting 73BARMY and me in a room together to discuss over a few beers. I am sure that the experiences are sufficiently diverse. I love the environment at USUHS, wouldn't trade it for HPSP.

Mark

 

[StacyTXLPC]

I need some advice. Somewhere on this forum, I read a post from either Markp or 73BARMYgsp advising that one should expect the MSC recruiter to be clueless about psychology programs.

I contacted him initially about applying to USUHS and he provided me with the ton of requisite paperwork. When I emailed him back to ask about using the HPSP at a local university with an APA accedited PsyD program (OLLU here in San Antonio), he informed me that:

"There is no HPSP program for Psychology programs; only USUHS is an option. If you want to pursue OLLU PhD - you will have to do on your own and once all PhD requirements are met, then apply for a direct commission with a loan repayment option (120K) for three yrs of service."

This is contradicted by EVERYTHING I've found online about the HPSP. Is there someone else besides this clueless recruiter I can get guidance from?

Thanks, Stacy

 

[deleted176373]

I need some advice. Somewhere on this forum, I read a post from either Markp or 73BARMYgsp advising that one should expect the MSC recruiter to be clueless about psychology programs.

I contacted him initially about applying to USUHS and he provided me with the ton of requisite paperwork. When I emailed him back to ask about using the HPSP at a local university with an APA accedited PsyD program (OLLU here in San Antonio), he informed me that:

"There is no HPSP program for Psychology programs; only USUHS is an option. If you want to pursue OLLU PhD - you will have to do on your own and once all PhD requirements are met, then apply for a direct commission with a loan repayment option (120K) for three yrs of service."

This is contradicted by EVERYTHING I've found online about the HPSP. Is there someone else besides this clueless recruiter I can get guidance from?

Thanks, Stacy

Let's get you the information from the people who really know.

First service specific, I don't know who is in charge of the USAF program (I don't believe that USAF is doing HPSP), but I do have good starting points for both Navy and Army.

For the Navy you want to contact CAPT Petrillo

CAPT Martin Petrillo, MSC, USN
Assistant Professor of Psychology
(410) 293-6012
[email protected]

For the Army, COL Crow would be the person I would contact. I do not have his contact info, but if you look around you should be able to find it.

The recruiter also failed to mention the APPIC internship sites as well. You can qualify for Loan Repayment after a Navy Internship, as I know someone who is going that route now. I know that the Navy HPSP for psychology is new, so that may just be coming on line this year. CAPT Petrillo can answer that.

Hopefully we can get you pointed in the right direction.

Mark

 

[StacyTXLPC]

Sorry - typo. I left out a few words there. I am a little worried about the cost of living in the Bethesda area. I have a husband and a 4yo daughter, so renting a room in someone's basement would not be feasible.

But again, that's not a reason to not apply. If I was accepted, I would work out the details!

Is there housing assistance in addition to salary?

Thanks

 

[deleted176373]

Sorry - typo. I left out a few words there. I am a little worried about the cost of living in the Bethesda area. I have a husband and a 4yo daughter, so renting a room in someone's basement would not be feasible.

But again, that's not a reason to not apply. If I was accepted, I would work out the details!

Is there housing assistance in addition to salary?

Thanks

I purchased a house here in Rockville for $285k. My wife does work, but even so my salary and housing allowance (which is higher than someone without prior service) is more than enough to comfortably exist. My take home pay is $6,062 a month. I think that you get the idea... I am not struggling.

Assuming you had 0 prior service, you would be taking home more than $4,000 per month. I assume that you could find a suitable place to live and afford groceries on that much per month. You might have to tighten the belt a little, but you'd be better off than taking out $130k in loans. Plus there is no reason you couldn't take out loans while in school... I can't imagine how you would justify it, but you could in theory.

We have many young families in the program, surprisingly enough. It's harder with the responsibilities of a family, but easier than missing that $50k+ income.

Let me break it down for you.

1st year, starting taxable income is $31860. In addition to that you add another $24,000 in housing and food allowances, which is Tax Exempt. You are a TX resident which means you do not pay MD state taxes, only federal taxes on your income. So roughly, not including other benefits, allowances, etc.

You are making in excess of $55,000 to go to school.

At the 2 year point, you get a $10,000 a year raise, at the 4 year point add another $10,000 a year raise. Show me any internship that pays $75k a year other than the military... If it wasn't for the fact that it takes a certain type of person to really want to be in the Military and to make the "sacrifices" we do, people would be beating the doors down. I don't see it as much of a sacrifice and I don't really see much of a down side (but I will admit that I am biased because I enjoy the military.)

And yes, you can end up in harms way... that is the nature of the military. They do their best to protect the doctors, psychologists, and chaplains though... as well are highly valuable and difficult to replace. Assume that if you join, you will deploy, that simple. You might never deploy, that happens. I was in the USAF for 9 years and NEVER was asked to deploy.

Mark

 

[StacyTXLPC]

Mark - Thanks so much for the contact info. I will follow-up.

Regarding deployment - I would not even be considering this if I wasn't willing to deploy. I've read so many posts about "trading" military service for the money. That's definitely the wrong reason to do this. Who would want the risk of hating the job, being unable to quit, AND the possibility of being deployed? I want to be a psychologist AND serve my country.

I'll admit that I have a slight bias towards the Marine Corps; my husband said to me "You know if you're Navy and you get deployed, you go where the Marines are?" Ie, the S**T.

To be honest, I'm not sure how I choose which branch to select....Army or Navy. I love the idea of serving the beloved Corps, but I also have to consider intership sites, and where I might ultimately be stationed. Only Army would allow me to be posted back in San Antonio, but how likely is it that I would even have a choice? I go where they send me, right? And aren't there more internship options for Army psychologists?

 

[deleted176373]

Mark - Thanks so much for the contact info. I will follow-up.

Regarding deployment - I would not even be considering this if I wasn't willing to deploy. I've read so many posts about "trading" military service for the money. That's definitely the wrong reason to do this. Who would want the risk of hating the job, being unable to quit, AND the possibility of being deployed? I want to be a psychologist AND serve my country.

I'll admit that I have a slight bias towards the Marine Corps; my husband said to me "You know if you're Navy and you get deployed, you go where the Marines are?" Ie, the S**T.

To be honest, I'm not sure how I choose which branch to select....Army or Navy. I love the idea of serving the beloved Corps, but I also have to consider intership sites, and where I might ultimately be stationed. Only Army would allow me to be posted back in San Antonio, but how likely is it that I would even have a choice? I go where they send me, right? And aren't there more internship options for Army psychologists?

Yes, the Army has 5 internship sites, where as the Navy has 3. All HPSP and USUHS students WILL go to Portsmith in VA (Virginia Beach basically.)

How to chose, it's difficult... but I always remember that there is a high probability that there will be a beach nearby when serving the Navy.

Mark

 

[smilaey]

When do you apply for this scholarship? Is it after you've already been accepted for study @ a school or before?

Are there any specific deadlines to meet?

What's the application process like? How competitive is it?

Any info/advice you can supply would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

 

[deleted176373]

When do you apply for this scholarship? Is it after you've already been accepted for study @ a school or before?

Are there any specific deadlines to meet?

What's the application process like? How competitive is it?

Any info/advice you can supply would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

You need to talk to a military medical officer recruiter, and then hope they know what the deal is.

Most psych HPSP scholarships are given at year 2.
There are always dead lines.
Apps are easy; but the process is competitive.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

1st year, starting taxable income is $31860. In addition to that you add another $24,000 in housing and food allowances, which is Tax Exempt. You are a TX resident which means you do not pay MD state taxes, only federal taxes on your income. So roughly, not including other benefits, allowances, etc.

You are making in excess of $55,000 to go to school.
Mark

Is this for the classroom years, or are you talking about the internship/licensing years?

 

[deleted176373]

Is this for the classroom years, or are you talking about the internship/licensing years?

At USUHS, this is for the classroom years and internship years. It's the best deal in psychology training on the planet from a financial standpoint. Assuming married, psychology student, and brand new to the military.

You do get pay increases along the way:

Here is how it breaks down, roughly.
55,000 for your first two years.
70,000 for your next two years.
85,000 when you begin internship.

Some of this is dependent on your marital status etc and are rough estimates. Your mileage may vary depending on your marital status etc.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

At USUHS, this is for the classroom years and internship years. It's the best deal in psychology training on the planet from a financial standpoint. Assuming married, psychology student, and brand new to the military.

You do get pay increases along the way:

Here is how it breaks down, roughly.
55,000 for your first two years.
70,000 for your next two years.
85,000 when you begin internship.

Some of this is dependent on your marital status etc and are rough estimates. Your mileage may vary depending on your marital status etc.

Mark

What about for HPSP?

 

[deleted176373]

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/...(10) ADJ USC):CITE AND (USC w/10 (2120)):CITE

Navy HPSP stipend is $1992/month but is limited by federal law to no more than $30k per year. Additionally time in HPSP does not count towards time in service for pay or retirement. The big difference is that you don't have to wear a uniform to school and you can go to a civilian school of your choice.

When you graduate and go on internship, you make a bit less money than someone who started at USUHS, but you have the same rank. Assuming you went HPSP and never had served in the military, your pay during internship would be about $70,000 per year.

Seriously, while HPSP is a good deal, USUHS is beyond a good deal for psychologists for a number of reasons. First you are integrated into the community and get to meet a large number of Navy and other military psychologists. Second you learn the military culture which allows you to better connect with your clients. Third you are afforded an education that addresses the unique nature of military psychology. Finally, the pay and benefits seem to be better by quite a margin over what most early career psychologists enjoy.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/...(10) ADJ USC):CITE AND (USC w/10 (2120)):CITE

Navy HPSP stipend is $1992/month but is limited by federal law to no more than $30k per year. Additionally time in HPSP does not count towards time in service for pay or retirement. The big difference is that you don't have to wear a uniform to school and you can go to a civilian school of your choice.

When you graduate and go on internship, you make a bit less money than someone who started at USUHS, but you have the same rank. Assuming you went HPSP and never had served in the military, your pay during internship would be about $70,000 per year.

Seriously, while HPSP is a good deal, USUHS is beyond a good deal for psychologists for a number of reasons. First you are integrated into the community and get to meet a large number of Navy and other military psychologists. Second you learn the military culture which allows you to better connect with your clients. Third you are afforded an education that addresses the unique nature of military psychology. Finally, the pay and benefits seem to be better by quite a margin over what most early career psychologists enjoy.

Mark

For USUHS though, I'm assuming you have to pass the physical components prior to starting, yes? There is no way I could pass either weight or tape right now, and the physical would be really pushing it.

On an unrelated question, are any waivers done for parts of physical stuff? I have a permanent disability injury (shattered my left ankle earlier this year at work) that will likely impact my ability to do long runs and such. If so, how is this addressed?

 

[deleted176373]

For USUHS though, I'm assuming you have to pass the physical components prior to starting, yes? There is no way I could pass either weight or tape right now, and the physical would be really pushing it.

On an unrelated question, are any waivers done for parts of physical stuff? I have a permanent disability injury (shattered my left ankle earlier this year at work) that will likely impact my ability to do long runs and such. If so, how is this addressed?

For HPSP and USUHS you have to pass a physical. So if you aren't in a position to pass via weight or tape, you need to find a way to get there or scrap the idea of going in. The bottom line is you need to meet the minimum standards for entrance... The tape is the important one to make, weight is not a factor... I am 30 lbs over the weight, but because of my fat neck, I make the tape with ease. I also score very well on the fitness tests as well. I use the bike now, but on entry you have to pass the run.

There are waivers that are granted from time to time, but unlikely for permanent disabilities that would prevent you from serving in a combat environment (e.g. deployed setting) and running is considered an important component of that... even at a fairly sluggish pace. You have to be able to do the 1.5 mile run in the allotted time to graduate from ODS. They are sticklers on that. I would think it VERY unusual to be able to secure a waiver for your ankle to gain entrance into the service... if you were hurt after you were in service, they would likely give you a waiver to remain in service. There are different standards for accession and being retained.

I can't tell you how many hoops I had to jump through to get a waiver for my high cholesterol and my LASIK surgery (and the LASIK was the bigger problem to get a waiver for!)

 

[doctorjb]

For HPSP and USUHS you have to pass a physical. So if you aren't in a position to pass via weight or tape, you need to find a way to get there or scrap the idea of going in. The bottom line is you need to meet the minimum standards for entrance... The tape is the important one to make, weight is not a factor... I am 30 lbs over the weight, but because of my fat neck, I make the tape with ease. I also score very well on the fitness tests as well. I use the bike now, but on entry you have to pass the run.

There are waivers that are granted from time to time, but unlikely for permanent disabilities that would prevent you from serving in a combat environment (e.g. deployed setting) and running is considered an important component of that... even at a fairly sluggish pace. You have to be able to do the 1.5 mile run in the allotted time to graduate from ODS. They are sticklers on that. I would think it VERY unusual to be able to secure a waiver for your ankle to gain entrance into the service... if you were hurt after you were in service, they would likely give you a waiver to remain in service. There are different standards for accession and being retained.

I can't tell you how many hoops I had to jump through to get a waiver for my high cholesterol and my LASIK surgery (and the LASIK was the bigger problem to get a waiver for!)

I had some questions:

Where can I find the physical requirements?

I have bilateral knee tendinitis and a torn labrum, both minor injuries. Can I leave that out when I'm applying or will it come back to bite me in the ass?


Also, does USUHS prepare someone for a future as a school psychologist?

It is impossible to find work here in the SF Bay Area, even with a 4 year BA from NYU. I feel like the military is my only option since I'm starting to have a hard time paying the rent or helping out with my young family's expenses. Bad decision to join? What do you think?

 

[erg923]

I had some questions:

Where can I find the physical requirements?

I have bilateral knee tendinitis and a torn labrum, both minor injuries. Can I leave that out when I'm applying or will it come back to bite me in the ass?


Also, does USUHS prepare someone for a future as a school psychologist?

It is impossible to find work here in the SF Bay Area, even with a 4 year BA from NYU. I feel like the military is my only option since I'm starting to have a hard time paying the rent or helping out with my young family's expenses. Bad decision to join? What do you think?

The USUHS does not provide training in school psych. Its only a clinical prorgam. I would not join the military just for money.

 

[neurocenni]

I'm a civilian at USUHS (Medical/Clin Psych) feel free to pm me if you have any questions

I had some questions:

Where can I find the physical requirements?

I have bilateral knee tendinitis and a torn labrum, both minor injuries. Can I leave that out when I'm applying or will it come back to bite me in the ass?


Also, does USUHS prepare someone for a future as a school psychologist?

It is impossible to find work here in the SF Bay Area, even with a 4 year BA from NYU. I feel like the military is my only option since I'm starting to have a hard time paying the rent or helping out with my young family's expenses. Bad decision to join? What do you think?

 

[deleted176373]

I had some questions:

Where can I find the physical requirements?

I have bilateral knee tendinitis and a torn labrum, both minor injuries. Can I leave that out when I'm applying or will it come back to bite me in the ass?

Don't lie or omit from your records... that's a big no-no. It can bite you in the ass later. That said, unless you have been diagnosed by a doctor as having chronic conditions, do not self-diagnose. Leave that up to the doctors. Can you run without pain? If yes, and you have not been diagnosed by a medical professional, I would probably not state that I had a condition worth mentioning. If you have medical records regarding this, then yes, absolutely disclose.

Also, does USUHS prepare someone for a future as a school psychologist?

As already stated, NO. There is no school psychologist track.

It is impossible to find work here in the SF Bay Area, even with a 4 year BA from NYU. I feel like the military is my only option since I'm starting to have a hard time paying the rent or helping out with my young family's expenses. Bad decision to join? What do you think?

It's not a bad reason to join, provided that you think the military lifestyle is something attractive to you in the first place. If you think that the military in general is something you might enjoy and you want to pay the bills, that's fine. When I first joined the military, I absolutely did not want to be in the military... It was my last resort at the time. I finally realized that I needed skills, money, and a career. My first time in, I hated it for the first 4 years, while the last 5 were good. I got out and then realized that despite being out for 10 years that I missed the people and the lifestyle. So now I am back in, and yes, I love it for the most part.

I wouldn't join unless you felt comfortable with giving up a substantial amount of freedom and didn't mind a disciplined environment where you are expected to do what you say you will do and don't mind working in what amounts to a zero fail environment (with reasonable expectations in general.) It's an odd mindset... You're expected to be 100% committed to your military commitment. That said, it's not as lock step as I make it sound and there is substantial room to express yourself within the military culture.

 

[deleted176373]

I'm a civilian at USUHS (Medical/Clin Psych) feel free to pm me if you have any questions

Do I know you? LOL...

Mark

 

[erg923]

Does the military require you to release your medical records? I have seen a handful of docs over the years. One had diagnosed acute asthma after a severe brochities, but i dont feel compelled to tell them this (since my asthaa no longer really exists). However, if they were to look through that particular docs records...that diagnosis would be there im fairly certain.

 

[deleted176373]

Does the military require you to release your medical records? I have seen a handful of docs over the years. One had diagnosed acute asthma after a severe brochities, but i dont feel compelled to tell them this (since my asthaa no longer really exists). However, if they were to look through that particular docs records...that diagnosis would be there im fairly certain.

I think they do require a release, but if it was an acute condition it's not likely to be disqualifying or an issue. I can't say how closely they look for prior history, but my impression is that unless you have an active problem, often you can get a waiver for most conditions.

Mark

 

[MandyC]

Hi Mark,

I've been reading your posts and thought you may have the answer or know where to find the answers to these questions. (By the way, thank you for all the great info).

1) Can you tell me anything about the Tripler Psychology Internship? Have you heard anything or know anyone who was an intern there?

2) Why is it that the AF is less likely to deploy than the Army or the Navy?

3) How likely or is it even possible to stay where you do you internship for the following three years?

4) Also, I read somewhere about a cruise if you are stationed in the San Diego Navy. Where and how long are you gone for?

Thank you. Any help is appreciated!

 

[deleted176373]

Hi Mark,

I've been reading your posts and thought you may have the answer or know where to find the answers to these questions. (By the way, thank you for all the great info).

1) Can you tell me anything about the Tripler Psychology Internship? Have you heard anything or know anyone who was an intern there?

I know of people who have done fellowships there for psychopharm and they spoke well of it. Training at Tripler is supposed to be excellent.

2) Why is it that the AF is less likely to deploy than the Army or the Navy?

Service culture. Even when they do deploy it is for shorter time periods. The USAF works more like a corporation than a military service (don't get me wrong there are sections of the USAF that you would swear are more hardcore than most US Army ranger elements.)

3) How likely or is it even possible to stay where you do you internship for the following three years?

Unlikely, but possible.

4) Also, I read somewhere about a cruise if you are stationed in the San Diego Navy. Where and how long are you gone for?

Usually you are stationed with a carrier for a few years, you go out to sea for 6 months (including overseas port calls) and 6 months in port, typically. There are only 12 carrier billets, so you first have to be on one of these slots. You're more likely to have a deployment first before getting a carrier tour.

I want to add, that if you are getting in to do 4 and get out, it might not be the best match. The mindset of someone who wants to pay their bills (which is admirable) and move on to something else, might not give you the job satisfaction you are looking for. I worry that people following the money, which is lucrative, are setting themselves up for an experience that they will find frustrating and less than satisfying. I don't say this to scare you off or set you on a different course, but if you wouldn't be happy in this environment without the money, no amount of loan repayment would change that. The military is VERY different than the "real world", and I love it for that, but there are people who can't stand it for the same reason (and it's a good reason.)

Mark

 

[KillerDiller]

Hi Mark,


2) Why is it that the AF is less likely to deploy than the Army or the Navy?

Actually, I don't believe this is the case anymore. I was speaking with an AF psychologist last month who shared that since the AF has switched to a method of deployment using "bands" airmen and officers deploy for six months at a time. For the mental health careers you can expect to deploy for six out of every 18 months.

Maybe this is still less than the Army and Navy, but I know it is more than the 3-4 month deployments the AF used to do.

 

[deleted176373]

Actually, I don't believe this is the case anymore. I was speaking with an AF psychologist last month who shared that since the AF has switched to a method of deployment using "bands" airmen and officers deploy for six months at a time. For the mental health careers you can expect to deploy for six out of every 18 months.

Maybe this is still less than the Army and Navy, but I know it is more than the 3-4 month deployments the AF used to do.

That would be a significant increase, I had not heard that yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if they increased their utilization.

The one thing you can count on in the military is a little unpredictability in where you might be a day, a week, a month, or a year from now.

Mark

 

[kellis]

Can anyone answer this question for me. I'm a 42 year old women who will be 43 in November. I have a BA in Speech Pathology and a MA in Counseling Psychology (MFT). I'm going into my 2nd year of the Clinical Psychology program. I would like to join the Army where they pay for it and I'll do my Intern with them. My question is how hard is it to get an age waiver. I've talked to the Amedd recuiter here in my area, but there giving me the run around. I'm not getting my question answered. Thank You

 

[erg923]

I'm not sure how strict they are with age waivers. However, keep in mind that HPSP scholarship require that you give them 3 years on active duty after the intern year as well.

 

[kellis]

Yeah, I understand I will have to give three years. That doesn't bother me. I'm just wondering if I even have a chance of getting in. I've always wanted to be in the arm services, but had children and wanted. I've done a lot of research, but can't find anything on waivers. Or anyone talking about how hard it may or may not be to get one.

 

[deleted176373]

Yeah, I understand I will have to give three years. That doesn't bother me. I'm just wondering if I even have a chance of getting in. I've always wanted to be in the arm services, but had children and wanted. I've done a lot of research, but can't find anything on waivers. Or anyone talking about how hard it may or may not be to get one.

Age waivers can be strange for things like HPSP scholarships, and the people you are talking to may or may not know the exact answer, and thus the run around. Usually the more that a service is interested in your particular skill set the more likely you are to secure an age waiver.

The real question, is do you have a chance... you don't want to do all the work and then be told no. That makes sense. I would apply and see what happens, they will either approve your application or disapprove it. You won't get anywhere waiting on them to answer your question. So I would apply, as the worst that can happen is they say you are too old and have passed your expiration date. I believe the oldest you can be with a waiver is 47 for internship placement, but don't quote me on that. There is an AMEDD representative who posts here and seems very knowledgeable.

Mark

 

[kellis]

Thank You for the information.

keasha

 

[dFran]

Quoted from the USUHS website


There are no tuition costs at USUHS. Students are responsible for textbook costs (some services reimburse for textbook costs). Active-duty military incur a service obligation of seven years after internship training. Civilian applicants who join a specific service will be obligated to seven years active duty service plus six years listing on the individual ready reserve (IRR) roster. Civilian students in the Medical Psychology-Clinical Track do not incur any military service obligations. Internships and post-doctoral fellowships are not credited toward satisfying the obligation.




It sounds like the time in school does not count toward the service obligation, or maybe it is just the internship year that doesn't count. Please clarify, thanks.

 

[StacyTXLPC]

I am older (36yo), already have a master's degree and would like to apply to USUHS (military psychology PHD). I am very familiar with the HPSP. Would it help my admission chances to join the Army or AF reserves? My MOS would most likely be mental health specialist. I am currently a researcher in traumatic brain injury at a military medical hospital.

Thanks!

 

[lseefeld]

I am older (36yo), already have a master's degree and would like to apply to USUHS (military psychology PHD). I am very familiar with the HPSP. Would it help my admission chances to join the Army or AF reserves? My MOS would most likely be mental health specialist. I am currently a researcher in traumatic brain injury at a military medical hospital.

Thanks!

My advice would be NO! there is more red tape to jump through when you join as enlisted the switch to officer. Right now especially, if you were to join as a mental health specialist, the MOS is so underforce that it is very difficult to be released from your enlisted contract to start a commission. The military service is always a good thing, don't get me wrong, but if your goal is a commission, don't enlist first. That's my experience as an enlisted trying to commission speaking, and it may be different between branches, but just my 0.02.