making mistakes in the lab

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hardwoodlampshade

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do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help

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Do you have your protocol printed/written out in front of you?
If yes, are you checking things off as you go?
If no, why not?
 
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my pi says linear bullet point protocols are bad practice because they hinder your ability to think scientifically, so generally don't use them.
 
Lab = where you'll have more failures than you ever thought possible.

My wise ol' grad student greeted me with this many many moons ago. Truer words were never spoken.
 
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If you're not making mistakes, you're not doing good science.
 
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Yeah pretty much echo just about everyone here. I know I made a ****s ton of mistakes in lab. I had the same exact worries as you.


Everyone screws up. The people who don't either have done the procedures so many freaking times, (but they still mess up, so I guess their not included), or they're simply not doing anything at all.

I found that I had so many thoughts going through my head about these experiments, and about my life in general, but sometimes I would lose focus and make careless mistakes. Or, I would find that I would have so many questions about the specifics and clarifications of the procedures, that I would have to re-read it over and over again to make sure that I'd be doing everything correctly.

Plus, I was often bored in the lab.
 
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my pi says linear bullet point protocols are bad practice because they hinder your ability to think scientifically, so generally don't use them.
My response to your PI would be "Bullsh*t". Not that you should say that to him/her though.

But... I do lots of long, multistep protocols in my lab work and a printed protocol is invaluable to me. Mostly because I fall into a rhythm in the lab and it can be easy to forget which wash step I'm on. I also use pipet tips in a particular order to keep track of where I am.
If I have to troubleshoot something, it is much easier to go back through a protocol and evaluate what could be changed with the secure knowledge that I didn't miss a step, rather than second guessing myself.

That said, my PI always told me "REsearch involves REpeating". So if the experiment goes wonky because something in the protocol isn't titrated correctly or the hypothesis is off, then that's fine. It's part of the learning experience.
However, if it continually goes wonky because you're missing steps, then that's not good, it's just a waste of resources.
Unless your PI is hovering over your shoulder for every experiment (which would be creepy), then I would print out the protocol and use it. If s/he asks, say you're still in the learning process and don't want to screw up the obvious parts.
 
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Yeah pretty much echo just about everyone here. I know I made a ****s ton of mistakes in lab. I had the same exact worries as you.


Everyone screws up. The people who don't either have done the procedures so many freaking times, (but they still mess up, so I guess their not included), or they're simply not doing anything at all.

I found that I had so many thoughts going through my head about these experiments, and about my life in general, but sometimes I would lose focus and make careless mistakes. Or, I would find that I would have so many questions about the specifics and clarifications of the procedures, that I would have to re-read it over and over again to make sure that I'd be doing everything correctly.

Plus, I was often bored in the lab.




the same things happen to me in lab. do you think sucking in lab correlates with sucking as a doctor? i think i want to do neurosurg (hence me working in a neuro lab), but i always worry that if i can't even handle lab experiments and get so stressed out by them, how am i ever going to handle something like neuro surgery?
 
Dude .. It took me two months to figure out the appropiate recipe to grow cells, and growing cells is not even my real experiment. Your PI is correct that papers in front of you means you don't need to think, but I think it is unfair for him to ask undergrad to go through experiment without protocol in front of them. You are still learning science anyway, and protocols is very good way to expose yourself to new ideas. When you are in grad school, you can challange yourself and do things without protocol printed infront of you.
 
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the same things happen to me in lab. do you think sucking in lab correlates with sucking as a doctor? i think i want to do neurosurg (hence me working in a neuro lab), but i always worry that if i can't even handle lab experiments and get so stressed out by them, how am i ever going to handle something like neuro surgery?


Seriously? You sound, word for word, like I did a couple of years ago. Asking the same exact questions. Twilight Zone, eh?

Which, for you, is good luck, because I understand where you're coming from!

Ask any surgeon, and they will tell you: Skills are LEARNED. You aren't born with some. Sure, some people naturally start a different levels of coordination and mechanics. That tells you about your beginning, not where you end up. You have to start somewhere. You WILL screw up. Sorry. If you cannot get over that, then you need to find another field. BUT, even though I don't know you, I'm going to tell you to get over it.

You know what makes a top surgeon? Hard headedness. You have to be stubborn enough to do the same things over and over again, screw up after screw up. Also, keep in mind that many mistakes are not necessarily immediately going to automatically kill your patient. Obviously, some might, depending on what you are doing. Yes yes, we know this.

Also, remember that surgery is quite different from your bench lab research. I myself work in a neuro lab (can we get any more similar?) We do dissections under microscopes with extremely thin wires. At the beginning? Sucked. But I was so extremely interested that I spent time.

Good surgeons spend time on their craft. There's a reason why surgical residencies take so long: you not only have to develop your hand skills, but you have to learn WHEN to cut. You know this, blah blah, whatever.

The point, is that, you will still be developing skills way into your practice (after residency) and will peak much later. You'll always be learning. As a surgeon, you will not perform 300 types of procedures. You'll pick a handful, and really work on those. There's also much else that I'm not drawing right now, and at the risk of not doing the field justice, as I am but a lowly student, I'll digress.

Tl;dr: No, your performance in your bench research does not tell you much, if anything, about how you will perform as a doctor (surgeon in your case). It DOES tell you where you can certainly improve. Right now, it's about the practicing the mental gymnastics and critical thinking, organization skills, etc. that are vital. Even so, you'll always (hopefully) be developing those.

And, ask yourself if you're really stressed out about ****ing up your experiments, or if it's actually that you worry about proving yourself "correct" about your skills (which can absolutely be improved). It'd be pretty damn difficult to focus and NOT make mistakes if, in the back of your mind, you're always saying "See, I knew it. I'm going to kill all of my patients."

Hence, my signature :)
 
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my pi says linear bullet point protocols are bad practice because they hinder your ability to think scientifically, so generally don't use them.
They are necessary in my lab. Just be sure you know why you are doing each step so you aren't blindly following it.
 
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1) You need to learn basic experiments and get comfortable with lab fundamentals before you worry about "thinking scientifically". Print out a protocol and check things off as you go.

2) You will grow more than you can possibly imagine over the course of your training. You will learn how to manage your time. You will learn how to deal with people yelling at you, and you will learn how to minimize the number of simple (but potentially devastating) mistakes that you make. Right now you aren't a doctor or a neurosurgeon, and you aren't expected to have their skill set yet. If you do go that route, you will get there slowly, over many years, and your frustrations in lab right now will have 0% to do with any of it.

3) Breathe. All you can do is mess up a little less every day. Go get it.
 
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Why do you think they put the "Re" in "Research"?

do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help
 
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I write/type up my own protocols. Do the thinking in advance, so you don't have to think during the experiment itself.

Have you ever heard of the culinary concept "mise-en-place"? Arrange your bench so that the flow of the experiment is obvious. For example, I always arrange my Western blot samples in the same order as I will load them, so I don't have to worry about it. Again, do the thinking in advance.

I was so concerned about the number of mistakes I was making a year ago. I've learned to slow down a bit, which has helped, but it's also a matter of just putting in the hours and learning lessons the hard way. Even then, you'll make tons of mistakes, just not as many. Just the other day I wasted $150 of reagent because I hadn't set up my mise-en-place, and I infected all of my control samples. Had to toss the whole experiment, and thanks to the holidays & interviews, I can't try it again for another two weeks. I'm still kicking myself about that one. But when I told my PI about it, he just shrugged and said he's done it 5 or 6 times himself. Dumb mistakes just happen in this line of work.
 
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do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help
Don't worry about it man, that's how you'll learn

For basic stuff I just kept the protocol next to me and followed it religiously.
 
do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help
Yes. I lost an entire litter, misinjected, did experiments in the dark, dropped a rat . . .

It doesn't matter how well you remember protocol, because your brain just does some funny stuff sometimes (especially with sleep deprivation that is so common among undergrads). Heck, one day I went to the lab door and just forgot what the combination was, even if I've known it reflexively for the past 10 months.

Your PI may not be happy about having the protocol written, but you can both agree on the pro of not making costly mistakes (unless your PI bathes in grant money).

As for my PI, we have protocols on the computer and in paper form pasted on the wall. (And little mini protocol stickies pasted at each station. : P)
 
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I'm struggling with this as well, OP. I'm doing okay now in my lab, but my mistakes initially caused friction with my PI.

I think the key is to take note of what mistakes will damn an experiment or set one back by weeks or waste money (like expensive reagents), or what mistakes are easily recoverable from or just waste small amounts of time. One could also develop an idea of when to focus, where mistakes are damning, or when to drift off (data entry and analysis, where mistakes are more correctable). But I'm worried about the same things you are, OP, so I'm still trying to figure things out too. :)
 
do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help

When I started, I had a written protocol to follow. And the first 5 or so times doing that experiment, I would refer to the protocol every step of the way. And as you begin to remember it you can use it less and less. That is my advice.
 
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Yes, and PI to boot, with over 20 years training grad students.

Here's something that I use. Make checklist of each step in your procedures. Check them off one by one. This protocol is good enough for pre-flight checks by airline pilots, so it's good enough for the lab.

And do one thing, and do it well.

It takes me about four times to learn a new procedure or protocol to be comfortable with it.
are you actually a faculty member?

You need to be able to master something before you can start thinking scientifically.
my pi says linear bullet point protocols are bad practice because they hinder your ability to think scientifically, so generally don't use them.
 
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I use a checklist as well. I learned this trick from a post-doc in my lab:

Keep your bullet points/typed protocol in a plastic sleeve. You can check them off as you go along with a sharpie (on the plastic sleeve). When you're done, spray some ethanol on that and wipe it off. I do this all the time when I need to remember what step I am on.
 
You need to be able to master something before you can start thinking scientifically.
my pi says linear bullet point protocols are bad practice because they hinder your ability to think scientifically, so generally don't use them.

Then you can become sloppy again (anyone else had PI's that were notoriously sloppy?)
 
do other people working in research labs (i.e. basic research on a bench) make mistakes in experiments? i find myself making TONS of mistakes. like everyday i forget to add something to a solution, or forget to heat something, etc etc. i find it so hard to manage doing complex experiments without messing up. how do i stop making so many mistakes in lab? i did fine in lab classes in college (a top 10 university). i majored in biochem.

i just don't understand why i make so many careless mistakes. help
happens all the time! I do genetics research and over the summer I was the only one working in the lab and I was freezing clones in liquid nitrogen. Turns out that I accidentally labeled the vials in wet erase marker instead of permanent... you can see how this would be a problem.. they thawed and we lost about 10-12 good clones because the ink smudged when they began to thaw. It was embarrassing at first, but later we all had a good laugh about it and now I'm working on a project of my own in there. people make mistakes, just make sure you don't burn down the lab.



you can't live that down
 
Seen Harry Potter? If so, remember (I forgot which movie exactly) when Harry and Ron are fighting over the last good textbook, and Harry ends up with the old one, but it has writing all over the protocol, and it makes Harry do everything perfect, and Hermione gets all pissed? I love HP, don't judge... Anyways, I feel like you'll get to the point where you feel like you can rewrite it... Don't though, always follow protocol apparently :pompous::rolleyes:, but it feels good knowing the ins and outs after struggling pretty harshly. You'll get there! Enjoy the ride
 
I feel like I'm an imbecile whenever I'm in lab. Don't worry, you aren't alone.
 
I made plenty of mistakes,... But you do what you can. Make a step by step procedure the night before,... And follow it
 
Like Everyone else, protocols are your lifeblood, along with a detailed journal outlining daily procedures, findings, errors & omissions, etc. The proof is in the pudding and in basic science bench research, the pudding is in your detailed lab manual.

For context, it took me 9 months to suss out issues with experiments that were only supposed to take 3-4 months. It's quite common, don't worry :)
 
Someone once told me:

"There are two kind of things: the ones you write down, and the ones your forget."
 
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