males vs. females

[DrM]

Working as a TA for general chemistry this past year, I noticed that there were many more female pre-meds than there were males in my discussion sessions; on average, I would say about 80% females. However, during my six interviews it seemed that the ratio reversed ranging from about 60% to 90% male interviewees.
Given that the national ratio of male to female applicants was 52.5 percent: 47.5 percent for the 2001 entering class, my observation seems strange. Of course, my sample size was small so there was probably considerable sampling error. Has anybody else noticed a similar trend? Any thoughts?

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[fun8stuff]

I was also a TA for general chem and i noticed the same. In general, at my school there are more female pre-meds than guys. 75% woman! Maybe this is predicitive of the future?

 

[Biodude]

Hmm, I do think that the interesting turn-over at interview time seems to come from finding out about the not-so-good parts of a career in medicine. My pre-med advisor has explained to me that a lot of people jump into pre-med without knowledge of the bad aspects of medicine, such as increasing malpractice insurance, decreasing reimbursements, lots of time at work, the sacrifices that need to be made, etc.

That's all I've got on this for now...

 

[tBw]

...ummm...maybe you spent more time talking to the women and found out their goals and aspirations...but didn't bother drawing out the nerdy bookworm boys with acne who sat in the back...?

 

[Joe Joe on da Radio]

on my interviews this year, women definitely dominated over men. i was the only guy at one of my interviews out of 15! i felt like the token male.

 

[JlazyMD]

According to a USNEWS article, this year's incoming class is the first that is 50% male 50% female. How they know this before the application year is over is beyond me- it must be an estimate.

 

[exmike]

Maybe females are more likely to go to review sessions than males?

 

[DrM]

Originally posted by the boy wonder
...ummm...maybe you spent more time talking to the women and found out their goals and aspirations...but didn't bother drawing out the nerdy bookworm boys with acne who sat in the back...?

No no, much as it is possible that I directed more of my attention helping the fairer sex , I actually took a poll at a few of my classes.

I suppose it's possible that initially more woman aspire to be physicians than men, but the realization of the sacrifices involved (having children, etc.) causes more woman than men to drop out.

 

[smid]

I actually had an interviewer (the Dean at UCSD) ask me how I felt about affirmative action for MEN (i.e. the # of men applying to med school is dropping, what should we do about it?) It was a strange conversation.

I think as freshman there are SO MANY premeds, men and women. So many drop out for so many reasons (usually I think they find something else exciting on the way that interests them even more and pre-med was just a starting point).

Also, there are so many faster ways to make big bucks that maybe men are looking toward the prestige of some other field. I don't know. Also, statistically, it's perfectly possible that were just a lot of female premeds in your class.

 

[vigils]

The idea that females are discriminated against in admissions is riduculous. Fewer females apply yet the percentage of matriculants is about 50% male and female. Anyone can tell from those stats that females have an anvantage. I'm not saying thats bad, just the facts. In my interviews I observed there was always a good balance of males and females.

 

[FMLizard]

So many students in freshman or sophomore year identify as "pre-med" because its the generic term for health profession asipirants. Many of these women will end up opting for nursing, pharmacy, PA and NP, and other healthcare related professions. Not so many seem to do dentistry, don't know why though. There are more women than men in healthcare in general. I think part of the attrition is a migration to other professions as much as anything. I know my sister stared off as a "pre-med" and had no clue what she wanted. She now is aiming for PA, even though she has med school academic credentials thus far. Just a personal decision for her, she likes the idea of being able to make 70K or so by age 24 rather than going to med school. There are many more like her.

 

[loyen]

Ditto to that. At my undergrad, if you come into your freshman year with NO CLUE as to what you want to major in, you end up taking the freshman year pre-med curriculum. Which makes sense if you think about it, because its a really good balance of science, math and liberal arts classes. Needless to say, most of these kids don't think to themselves "This is great!" and keep doing it. Most of them switch out.

It also seemed that more girls were undecided when they came in then boys, leaving more pre-med girls in the beginning. Just some random musings.

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by Joe Joe on da Radio
on my interviews this year, women definitely dominated over men. i was the only guy at one of my interviews out of 15! i felt like the token male.

surprisingly enough, I had the opposite experience, twice.

 

[altoid]

a lot of the female premeds at my undergraduate ended up in pa and nursing, while most of the males I knew ended up applying to med school... again just an observation. i am female and i still hope to go to med school so there is that too. a lot of the girls that changed their end goal were worried about families and the such...

 

[relatively prime]

Well, I can only talk about the female pre-meds at my school... but I noticed with them that they were at first all excited about "helping people" and being a heroic fighter against pain and misery... then once they realized how difficult the pre-med life is... and how hard it is to get into med school... they bailed. But I'm sure that happens to guys too. I don't know...

 

[TeinVII]

Originally posted by seaworthc
surprisingly enough, I had the opposite experience, twice.

good times...good times.. :]

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by TeinVII
good times...good times.. :]

you know that is just what I like

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Originally posted by vigils
The idea that females are discriminated against in admissions is riduculous. Fewer females apply yet the percentage of matriculants is about 50% male and female. Anyone can tell from those stats that females have an anvantage. I'm not saying thats bad, just the facts. In my interviews I observed there was always a good balance of males and females.

I don't think anyone was saying there's gender discrimination in med school admissions (although there is in some residency programs), just hypothesizing as to the reason for the self-selection out of the med school application process.

I also think women are more likely to be scared out of applying by overzealous pre-med advisors. I'm not blaming the pre-med advisors, as they have their reasons for those tactics, but women are less likely to challenge that kind of confrontation, whereas men are more likely to want to prove them wrong.

 

[sd77]

hmm. you bring up an interesting point viennesewaltz. I had a very rude, put-down type of pre-med advisor. The first time I went to her was the fall of my freshmen year and she told me I couldn't get into med school and that because I had never had chemistry that I wouldn't be able to pass it. This was very frustrating, but as you said, it actually made me want to do it that much more to prove her wrong...

I did, and I never went to see her again because she was so rude. Unfortunately, for that reason I was very ill-prepared for the application process right out of college. Not being a bio or chem major, I wasn't hanging out with pre-meds or surfing the studentdoctor forums, and honestly knew very little about it.

but I would like to know what you are referring to regarding the "tactic" the advisors use, and why would discouraging someone from pursuing something be justified. I guess they can justify it to themselves by trying to discourage students that for some arbitrary reason they believe can't do it so that they will have better entrance stats or something. hmmm...kind of sounds like the poor selection process that med schools are using (not that I am proposing a better one...well, maybe). Just wanted to hear more thoughts on shady pre-med advisors.

 

[relatively prime]

Originally posted by VienneseWaltz
... but women are less likely to challenge that kind of confrontation, whereas men are more likely to want to prove them wrong.

I smell a stereotype

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by VienneseWaltz
I also think women are more likely to be scared out of applying by overzealous pre-med advisors. I'm not blaming the pre-med advisors, as they have their reasons for those tactics, but women are less likely to challenge that kind of confrontation, whereas men are more likely to want to prove them wrong.

not a big factor. A much bigger issue? Many young women start thinking about eventually having a family & realize that this will be much more difficult as a physician than it will in many other careers.

 

[denali]

Originally posted by DrMom
not a big factor. A much bigger issue? Many young women start thinking about eventually having a family & realize that this will be much more difficult as a physician than it will in many other careers.

The type of questions asked by the women who interviewed with me seem to support this. Many were very interested in quality of life issues and school's willingness to help out with balancing medicine and family concerns. I did not hear any questions like that from the men.

mdf

 

[The Chronic MD]

The bottom line is that the ratio of GOOD LOOKING women to men remains small regarding medical school demographics.

"Did he just say that?"

You know I did.

 

[Mylaina]

Originally posted by vigils
The idea that females are discriminated against in admissions is riduculous. Fewer females apply yet the percentage of matriculants is about 50% male and female. Anyone can tell from those stats that females have an anvantage. I'm not saying thats bad, just the facts. In my interviews I observed there was always a good balance of males and females.

Actually, applicants are 50/50 M/F as are acceptances nowadays. There were more female applicants this year than male. I would check your stats before making statements that women are given "help" to get in.

 

[smartreader]

I'm one of five guys in my major at McGill.

 

[finnpipette]

Originally posted by smid
I actually had an interviewer (the Dean at UCSD) ask me how I felt about affirmative action for MEN (i.e. the # of men applying to med school is dropping, what should we do about it?) It was a strange conversation.

I would have said, they need advertising, like beer commercials. Show a bunch of ripped, good looking men in scrubs giving orders to submissive, hot nurses. Yeah baby!