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O boy. Yeah you have alot to learn. Lets leave it at that.
I would actually argue that YOU have alot to learn.
O boy. Yeah you have alot to learn. Lets leave it at that.
And how do you know this? What basis can you back this up. There's no support or data to prove that professionals that get high on their own time over the long run are not detrimentally affected cognitively, judgement-wise, or that patients are affected or not affected. No one's ever going to admit to drug use so thats not going to be proven or known.
But something being stupid doesn't mean it should be illegal. It's stupid to go biking without a helmet, but it's not illegal. Legality doesn't fundamentally change the ultimate issue whether an action is right or wrong. The best way to view whether an action is right or wrong is to ask does it involve the use of force or fraud and does it cause harm to others. Marijuana use doesn't seem to meet that.[/QUOTE]
There are helmet laws, seatbelt laws and you will get a ticket if you dont wear them.
Using an illegal substance that impairs/ potentially impairs you is a breech in professional standard not comparable to wearing/ not wearing safety equipment.
There are helmet laws, seatbelt laws and you will get a ticket if you dont wear them.
Using an illegal substance that impairs/ potentially impairs you is a breech in professional standard not comparable to wearing/ not wearing safety equipment.
So Sirenomelia what do you think about alcohol? I mean honestly what somebody does when they're off is their business. If you're concerned about the effects of drug usage on performance, how about sleep deprivation? Legalize everything, end the nanny state.
But something being stupid doesn't mean it should be illegal. It's stupid to go biking without a helmet, but it's not illegal. Legality doesn't fundamentally change the ultimate issue whether an action is right or wrong. The best way to view whether an action is right or wrong is to ask does it involve the use of force or fraud and does it cause harm to others. Marijuana use doesn't seem to meet that.[/QUOTE]
There are helmet laws, seatbelt laws and you will get a ticket if you dont wear them.
Using an illegal substance that impairs/ potentially impairs you is a breech in professional standard not comparable to wearing/ not wearing safety equipment.
Nobody on here is advocating showing up high to see patients or getting high while on call, there is a difference between drinking and driving drunk, just as there is a difference between an individual smoking marijuana and seeing patients while high. No one here is advocating that, what most people support is that you should have the right to put what you want into your body, as long as you aren't endangering others.
Have you ever knowingly broken a law?
And yet we know that sleep deprivation actually is detrimental to health, cognitive ability, and ultimately patient outcomes. Why aren't you fighting to curtail some of the training practices that force residents and doctors to work overly long hours? In fact, what about all those selfish doctors who work so much that they don't get enough sleep, therby endangering their patients?
This has nothing to do with the topic. But since you mentioned it I trained before your nancy work restriction rules and patients were definitely better off when we were always there even though it sucked for me/us.
This isn't the same as jaywalking, speeding, etc. None of those actions, if not directly affecting your ability to practice, will affect your practice potential in the future unless there is an escalation of outstanding offenses..
This has nothing to do with the topic. But since you mentioned it I trained before your nancy work restriction rules and patients were definitely better off when we were always there even though it sucked for me/us.
My point is, it is not worth putting yourself in the position of possible future career consequences. Should a hospital be worried about what you're doing outside of work? No, I agree with you. Obviously intoxication on the job is a poor, poor choice. However, when speeding (which is illegal) you won't have the same legal ramifications on your career as if you're screened for drugs. You're going to get caught if you do them acutely enough. Is it fair? No. But until there is a test that can say you're using at work, you'll have to live with the consequences.MJ use is exactly the same as speeding. Both actions are equally illegal. They have comparable legal and social consequences. You are knowingly breaking the law in both cases. And neither one affects your ability to practice medicine (assuming you're not actually high at work). There is no reason why you should be fine with a history of speeding and judgmental about a history of recreational drug use.
Does anyone know anyone who has smoked or does smoke in medical school? What about residency? What about later in their career? I haven't smoked in over half a year, but I was just wanting to find out what happens if you do fail.
The OP is asking about implications of drug use entering, within and beyond medical school. Having myself participated and served my state medical board reveiwing applications, reinstatements, sanctions and restrictions for misconduct- often a drug-related issue, let me inform you of the facts since you've yet done any of those things yet still shoot your mouth off. Marijuanna is illegal now. Period. Its not vague at all. Nor are the questions on your state medical license applications- do you use drugs YES or NO. Few states have medical use cards but as I dont work in such a state, I cant say for certain, but I would be surprised if a working MD would be permitted privileges anywhere using marijuana even with a card. These cards are BS anyway and everyone knows the majority of people are purposefully circumventing the law to get high under the excuse of a phantom medical problem. Its bad enough we have jackasses in our profession making money hand over foot prescribing these cards with little/ no basis. Medical practice is emotionally, mentally and physically demanding work. Its not a place for people with drug problems. Its a profession, not like working at Burger King where you may get "fired" for doing something wrong. If you are not at your best at all times than other people will get harmed. A drug/DUI offense is a significant black mark on a professional application that will deny you licenses, privileges, etc etc. Its an enormous privilege to be trusted with the care of a person. The patient, their family, the whole healthcare team are expecting their doctor to be of sound mind and character to provide the highest standards. If one has to mull over whether they can give up drugs or not- you're not fit. Just stay out of our field. I want colleagues that least of all stay clean and obey the law.
This has nothing to do with the topic. But since you mentioned it I trained before your nancy work restriction rules and patients were definitely better off when we were always there even though it sucked for me/us.
Sirenomelia
And how do you know this? What basis can you back this up. There's no support or data to prove that professionals that get high on their own time over the long run are not detrimentally affected cognitively, judgement-wise, or that patients are affected or not affected.
If you change high to sleep deprived
You mean except- having BEEN there?
Funny I was actually one of the ginny pig residents used in a study time testing us with these technical obstacle courses with needle drivers, threading sutures through eyeholes, etc post-call vs fresh. Yeah I think slower times were recorded. We knew all our patients like the back of our hand. These cross-cover housestaff schemes are more like finger plugging holes in a breaking dam to keep patients barely alive until the sun rises and the real team comes in but thats just been my experience for what its worth.
You reject anecdotal evidence when its presented by your opponents yet use it yourself when supporting your argument. Interesting.
If your main argument against substance abuse is that it could impact your career because licensing and credentialing bodies effectively require you to follow the law, then you're correct. No one would deny that. However if you're trying to argue that something about private pot use specifically is inherently wrong or unethical, then you're failing miserably.
Me and my girlfriend keep talking that we would like to try it just once to see what it's like. Unfortunately we are both goody two shoes and would more than likely end up buying some from a cop if we tried to do that.
Sirenomelia, I don't understand what's so wrong with ignoring what people do in their private time. The only concern you should have is the merit of any individual's effort at school/work. Live and let live as long as you aren't harmed from those actions.
Using illegal drugs makes you a criminal. Nothing I enjoy more than ensuring that users never become doctors.
At my medical school we let every applicant know that drug use will not be tolerated and that each student will be drug tested at random over the four years of attendence. Expulsion from school is the result from a positive test. At orientation we show photos of students that were expuled from previous years. Every year 1 or 2 gets caught... once we had a MS4 that used MJ on an away rotation-- gone.
Using illegal drugs makes you a criminal. Nothing I enjoy more than ensuring that users never become doctors.
At my medical school we let every applicant know that drug use will not be tolerated and that each student will be drug tested at random over the four years of attendence. Expulsion from school is the result from a positive test. At orientation we show photos of students that were expuled from previous years. Every year 1 or 2 gets caught... once we had a MS4 that used MJ on an away rotation-- gone.
I hope you're doing the same thing with people who get speeding tickets. They're criminals as well.
Honestly, the fact that you enjoy publicly humiliating someone whose life is ruined is pretty upsetting to me. And, I'd rather pay money to be treated by a doctor who smokes pot at his free time than be treated by someone like you for free.
Using illegal drugs makes you a criminal. Nothing I enjoy more than ensuring that users never become doctors.
At my medical school we let every applicant know that drug use will not be tolerated and that each student will be drug tested at random over the four years of attendence. Expulsion from school is the result from a positive test. At orientation we show photos of students that were expuled from previous years. Every year 1 or 2 gets caught... once we had a MS4 that used MJ on an away rotation-- gone.
Yeah it sucks you have to play by the rules in life whether you agree with them or not. Its called being an adult.
So is your biggest qualm the legality of it or it interfering with your work?
Sirenomelia, I don't understand what's so wrong with ignoring what people do in their private time. The only concern you should have is the merit of any individual's effort at school/work. Live and let live as long as you aren't harmed from those actions.
why do you assume most people willing to break the law to continue their habit are never going to have it affect their performance at work or be impaired at work at some point? Its not some innocuous hobby like backgammon. Further, you're going to get drug tested and whether or not you did pot only at home or around the clock you're going to test positive for cannibis. How is anyone else supposed to know you never used it at work? Then there is a personal moral standard that doctors should be above such behavior IMO. Would you tell your patients or want them seeing you smoking dope and acting like a fool out and about? You going to tell your colleagues and expect them to respect you and refer patients? I wouldnt. Just if i knew someone had a drinking problem, or was abusing prescription narcs or whatever outside of work. I would just assume they lacked judgement and/or were impaired and dangerous.
http://www.addictionpro.com/article/address-client-myths-about-marijuana
And you guys want to be doctors... good luck with that. And don't forget to give customers hot sauce with their tacos.
Marijuana use is increasingly becoming socially acceptable.
http://www.addictionpro.com/article/address-client-myths-about-marijuana
And you guys want to be doctors... good luck with that. And don't forget to give customers hot sauce with their tacos.
Dan give up and stop giving objective data that goes against any notion that being an innocennt druggie is bad in any way when we have gallup polls from the jackass public supporting it as acceptable. One poster on this thread said the NIH is phony and uncredible on another thread of this topic.
And to all of you....what you do outside of work does matter. In fact much of the time an action against a licensee does not involve their practice. Ive seen a parade of clowns who used coke, wrote scripts to friends, had sex with patients, and even a guy who was arrested for slapping ho's at a strip club- when they got into professional jeopardy all say the same thing as the people here- its my personal life so why does it matter?
Don't, because this will happen to you ;p
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/daniel-chong-ucsd-san-diego-dea-149758275.html
Daniel Chong, the UC San Diego student who was left in a Drug Enforcement Agency holding cell for nearly five days, said the time spent in his cell was a life-altering experience.
Before holding a press conference Tuesday afternoon, the 23-year-old spoke with NBCSanDiego and said he was increasingly worried throughout the days he spent in a 5 ft. by 10 ft. cell, where he could not spread his arms out wide.
Source: DEA Ignored All My Cries: Student | NBC San Diego
Source: http://www.cbs8.com/story/18025968/suspect-forgotten-in-holding-cell-for-daysOfficials say they seized 18,000 ecstasy pills, marijuana, prescription medication, mushrooms, several weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition in the raid.
Dan give up and stop giving objective data that goes against any notion that being an innocennt druggie is bad in any way when we have gallup polls from the jackass public supporting it as acceptable. One poster on this thread said the NIH is phony and uncredible on another thread of this topic.
And to all of you....what you do outside of work does matter. In fact much of the time an action against a licensee does not involve their practice. Ive seen a parade of clowns who used coke, wrote scripts to friends, had sex with patients, and even a guy who was arrested for slapping ho's at a strip club- when they got into professional jeopardy all say the same thing as the people here- its my personal life so why does it matter?