Masters of Science Emergency Medical Services

[ROSC]

https://ems.creighton.edu/node/994

My intentions are to apply for the cycle of this fiscal year 2016 for possible Matriculation into the class of 2021, beginning in August of 2017.

In the event that I do not matriculate I stumbled upon this Masters Program. I've found the course content to be very interesting and subjective to my career and experiences- which is no surprise.

My rationale behind an Online MS is that I currently work full time as a Remote Medicine Paramedic/ Search and Rescue Paramedic. My schedule is 14-14 on assignment. I will not have the ability to attend class each day.

During my entire undergrad I worked full time nights on a high volume Unit and have no intentions of returning to that chapter of my life again. (Unless I absolutely have to)

Currently prepping for the MCAT
cGPA3.2 sGPA 3.2
cGPA last 60 hours 3.79
sGPA last 60 hours 3.6

2 year EMT
7.5 year Paramedic
Critical Care
FPC
PHTLS Instructor
CPR-First Aid Instructor

State school only accepts Residents so that will help some what (hopefully) -State school is mid to low tier
I will also be applying to OOS schools that are within "striking distance"

My question is with my lifestyle and current situation would this MS program suffice ?

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[Gurby]

Seems like it could be a good idea if your goal is to go into EM, become an EMS medical director, that sort of thing. If you're just trying to make your application to medical school stronger, the time would likely be better spent doing something else, IMO.

 

[ROSC]

I presume that I will continue to enjoy EM from this point forward. I will not be naive in the fact that I will be exposed to many other avenues with the possibility of specializing in an alternative.
Thanks for the input.

The value of this program lies in my ability to keep my Full Time employment status ....... and the Salary that comes along with it lol

 

[DrMidlife]

This program won't help your med school candidacy, at all. Not worth the time for med school. Down the road if you realize being a paramedic is where you're happiest, then this program is appropriate as you take on leadership and start being a policy-setter. Or if you're an EM doc in residency a decade from now, this program won't get you out of doing an EMS fellowship, if EMS management is what you want to be doing.

What I'd recommend is to do something that counters the extremely EMS-heavy background you have. Paramedics are great. Emergency med is great. But your app screams EMS so loudly that there's no more air for screaming about EMS. And you have low numbers. Med school is all about surviving med school academics. The average paramedic will crush an MD in the field, but that MD will crush the average paramedic on exams. Exams are everything for MDs. So do something that looks more like med school academics, or do something in clinical research. I'd even propose teaching as being more interesting for you than a masters in EMS.

Have you met with the admissions director at your home state public? Try really really hard to get that to happen as soon as possible. A school with a crazy strong instate bias should be open to pre-admissions meetings.

Best of luck to you.

 

[ROSC]

This program won't help your med school candidacy, at all. Not worth the time for med school. Down the road if you realize being a paramedic is where you're happiest, then this program is appropriate as you take on leadership and start being a policy-setter. Or if you're an EM doc in residency a decade from now, this program won't get you out of doing an EMS fellowship, if EMS management is what you want to be doing.

What I'd recommend is to do something that counters the extremely EMS-heavy background you have. Paramedics are great. Emergency med is great. But your app screams EMS so loudly that there's no more air for screaming about EMS. And you have low numbers. Med school is all about surviving med school academics. The average paramedic will crush an MD in the field, but that MD will crush the average paramedic on exams. Exams are everything for MDs. So do something that looks more like med school academics, or do something in clinical research. I'd even propose teaching as being more interesting for you than a masters in EMS.

Have you met with the admissions director at your home state public? Try really really hard to get that to happen as soon as possible. A school with a crazy strong instate bias should be open to pre-admissions meetings.

Best of luck to you.

Yes m'am I have.
It went fairly well.
I have confidence in my odds of matriculation at this particular school school.
Thank you very much for the valuable insight.

I did clinical research for a Higher level Allied Health Leadership Course I took last year.
It was based on Resuscitation rates with uninterrupted CPR and early Defibrillation per AED. Vs Conventional CPR.

It may not be much compared to what others have done, but it was a start.

Hence the name "ROSC"

 

[Goro]

Do you have a list of their coursework? I fear, big time, that this degree will, in no way, help you convince Adcoms that you can handle med school.

As a stepping stone to have a job until you apply to med school with evidence of academic prowess? That's fine.

Do you have the pre-reqs out of the way? if so, what are your GPAs?

Taken MCAT?

https://ems.creighton.edu/degrees-programs/master-science-emergency-medical-services

My intentions are to apply for the cycle of this fiscal year 2016 for possible Matriculation into the class of 2021, beginning in August of 2017.

In the event that I do not matriculate I stumbled upon this Masters Program. I've found the course content to be very interesting and subjective to my career and experiences- which is no surprise.

My rationale behind an Online MS is that I currently work full time as a Remote Medicine Paramedic/ Search and Rescue Paramedic. My schedule is 14-14 on assignment. I will not have the ability to attend class each day.

During my entire undergrad I worked full time nights on a high volume Unit and have no intentions of returning to that chapter of my life again. (Unless I absolutely have to)

Currently prepping for the MCAT
cGPA3.2 sGPA 3.2
cGPA last 60 hours 3.79
sGPA last 60 hours 3.6

2 year EMT
7.5 year Paramedic
Critical Care
FPC
PHTLS Instructor
CPR-First Aid Instructor

State school only accepts Residents so that will help some what (hopefully) -State school is mid to low tier
I will also be applying to OOS schools that are within "striking distance"

My question is with my lifestyle and current situation would this MS program suffice ?

 

[ROSC]

Do you have a list of their coursework? I fear, big time, that this degree will, in no way, help you convince Adcoms that you can handle med school.

As a stepping stone to have a job until you apply to med school with evidence of academic prowess? That's fine.

Do you have the pre-reqs out of the way? if so, what are your GPAs?

Taken MCAT?

Goro

Prereqs all complete aside from Bio Chem

Currently prepping for the MCAT
cGPA3.2 sGPA 3.2
cGPA last 60 hours 3.79
sGPA last 60 hours 3.6

I feel I may be a candidate for reinvention. First years were tacky.

I am in no way opposed to a more rigorous Science Based Masters program. My dilemma is in maintaining my employment along with benefits. The job I have I can't just take off for a semester and jump right back in until first day of class. If I shove off to complete an in house SMP after completion. I'll more than likely transgress back onto a ground unit for a 50% salary cut. With out the guarantee of first cycle acceptance.

Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.

Once again thanks for all of the input

 

[DrMidlife]

It was based on Resuscitation rates with uninterrupted CPR and early Defibrillation per AED. Vs Conventional CPR.

Researchy, yes, but again, it's pure saturated pharmaceutical grade EMS experience. I honestly think you're in trouble if you don't have SOMETHING that isn't EM on your app. It's one thing for an otherwise inexperienced premed to volunteer in an ED or drive an ambulance, it's another thing entirely for somebody to have been a paramedic as a CAREER. You're keyholed.

Consider that there could be not one single EM doctor in your app review or interview. Please have something other than resus to talk about. Do something that allows your reviewers to IMAGINE you as something other than a paramedic. Give them something of themselves to see in you.

How about this: get up close and personal with some patients being treated for chronic DM that are NOT in DKA. Like at a free clinic. Have some things to say from an experience in preventive medicine that keeps people OUT of the ED. Or do some psych, a nursing home, etc. Just something else.

 

[ROSC]

Researchy, yes, but again, it's pure saturated pharmaceutical grade EMS experience. I honestly think you're in trouble if you don't have SOMETHING that isn't EM on your app. It's one thing for an otherwise inexperienced premed to volunteer in an ED or drive an ambulance, it's another thing entirely for somebody to have been a paramedic as a CAREER. You're keyholed.

Consider that there could be not one single EM doctor in your app review or interview. Please have something other than resus to talk about. Do something that allows your reviewers to IMAGINE you as something other than a paramedic. Give them something of themselves to see in you.

How about this: get up close and personal with some patients being treated for chronic DM that are NOT in DKA. Like at a free clinic. Have some things to say from an experience in preventive medicine that keeps people OUT of the ED. Or do some psych, a nursing home, etc. Just something else.

Noted
I just completed an ENTIRE remodel on a house. It took 18 months.
I did EVERYTHING on my own
re-wiring
plumbing
windows
vinyl siding
Ect ect

I know this may seem trivial, but during my re-model I tried to absorb lessons from it that would assist me during medical school.

Things such as:
Logistical planning
Resourcefulness
Stamina
Diligence
Foresight
Self awareness

Real world, real life, diversification as an applicant.

 

[ROSC]

Researchy, yes, but again, it's pure saturated pharmaceutical grade EMS experience. I honestly think you're in trouble if you don't have SOMETHING that isn't EM on your app. It's one thing for an otherwise inexperienced premed to volunteer in an ED or drive an ambulance, it's another thing entirely for somebody to have been a paramedic as a CAREER. You're keyholed.

Consider that there could be not one single EM doctor in your app review or interview. Please have something other than resus to talk about. Do something that allows your reviewers to IMAGINE you as something other than a paramedic. Give them something of themselves to see in you.

How about this: get up close and personal with some patients being treated for chronic DM that are NOT in DKA. Like at a free clinic. Have some things to say from an experience in preventive medicine that keeps people OUT of the ED. Or do some psych, a nursing home, etc. Just something else.

I will definitely look into these things Doc.
I know that my experiences with contracting may not apply on a clinical basis, but I thought that tidbit may help to justify that I'm not just an EMS drone.

If I get into school I'll have a place to come back to that's my own. If I'm accepted OOS then it'll be a small income by renting the house.

10 years from now if and when I complete residency it will be a place for me to live note free while I knock down some interest sensitive student loans.

 

[DrMidlife]

I dig home remodeling. One time I spent an entire backpacking trip talking with my friends about drywall. But again, it won't help you get into med school. It's not a clinical contrast to EMS.

When I say your reviewers/interviewers want to "see something of themselves" I mean they want to be thinking "this guy could do my job someday". So spend some time with BORING doctors to see what I'm talking about. Find a doctor who speaks WAY too slowly and uses WAY too many words and doesn't seem to know there are clocks with second hands. The guys that you'd kick out of the room when there's blood spurting. That lady who never smiles or laughs that helped your aunt get pregnant after 10 years of trying. Like when you're doing paperwork in the ED, start looking for who's consulting - neurology, ID, psych, etc.

 

[ROSC]

What should my target range be for shadowing hours ?
I've got plenty of time to get them done.

 

[DrMidlife]

i'd say quality over quantity. you have infinite clinical hours. maybe give yourself a goal to have a meaningful conversation about disease processes and practice characteristics with 5 docs whose jobs you don't want. podiatrists & dentists count.

I'd actually put that as a separate EC, if i did it. Like, "focused specialty shadowing" yada yada "in order to round out my clinical experience"

 

[Goro]

The massive upward trend and a good MCAT will do vastly more than this MS in EMS. Frankly, it's not going to help you at all.

Goro

Prereqs all complete aside from Bio Chem

Currently prepping for the MCAT
cGPA3.2 sGPA 3.2
cGPA last 60 hours 3.79
sGPA last 60 hours 3.6

I feel I may be a candidate for reinvention. First years were tacky.

I am in no way opposed to a more rigorous Science Based Masters program. My dilemma is in maintaining my employment along with benefits. The job I have I can't just take off for a semester and jump right back in until first day of class. If I shove off to complete an in house SMP after completion. I'll more than likely transgress back onto a ground unit for a 50% salary cut. With out the guarantee of first cycle acceptance.

Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.

Once again thanks for all of the input

Don't even go there with this.
I just envision the interview going like this:

Q: So why not just be a contractor? You won't be in massive debt, won't kill anyone, won't have people die on you, and you make money right away, instead of waiting for residency to finish?????

Noted
I just completed an ENTIRE remodel on a house. It took 18 months.
I did EVERYTHING on my own
re-wiring
plumbing
windows
vinyl siding
Ect ect

I know this may seem trivial, but during my re-model I tried to absorb lessons from it that would assist me during medical school.

Things such as:
Logistical planning
Resourcefulness
Stamina
Diligence
Foresight
Self awareness

Real world, real life, diversification as an applicant.

 

[ROSC]

The massive upward trend and a good MCAT will do vastly more than this MS in EMS. Frankly, it's not going to help you at all.





Don't even go there with this.
I just envision the interview going like this:

Q: So why not just be a contractor? You won't be in massive debt, won't kill anyone, won't have people die on you, and you make money right away, instead of waiting for residency to finish?????

I have spent the last decade moving myself closer towards my goal of being a physician, and frankly I can not envision myself doing anything else for a magnitude of reasons. Every sacrifice I have made thus far has been to push myself in the direction of a higher education in medicine. Albeit they have been in the appendage of EM up until this point, but EM has been my gestation.

 

[CajunMedic]

Researchy, yes, but again, it's pure saturated pharmaceutical grade EMS experience. I honestly think you're in trouble if you don't have SOMETHING that isn't EM on your app. It's one thing for an otherwise inexperienced premed to volunteer in an ED or drive an ambulance, it's another thing entirely for somebody to have been a paramedic as a CAREER. You're keyholed.

Consider that there could be not one single EM doctor in your app review or interview. Please have something other than resus to talk about. Do something that allows your reviewers to IMAGINE you as something other than a paramedic. Give them something of themselves to see in you.

How about this: get up close and personal with some patients being treated for chronic DM that are NOT in DKA. Like at a free clinic. Have some things to say from an experience in preventive medicine that keeps people OUT of the ED. Or do some psych, a nursing home, etc. Just something else.

I'm with @DrMidlife on this one, and was in the same boat myself. My UG degree was in Disaster Science and Management with research in disaster medicine/EMS. I volunteered at a local free clinic whose purpose was to provide primary care and keep people away from EMS and out of the ED. It gave me something to talk about other than EMS when I was asked "So, what else have you done for humanity?"

 

[ROSC]

I wouldn't mention working as a contractor. Has absolutely nothing to do with medicine and very little to do with aptitude generally. Plus it sounds like you enjoy it enough to call it a career - if you have a little capital you can make A LOT of money in construction if you're intelligent, and sounds like you love it.

For what its worth, I'm debating mentioning leadership in college athletics.

Have you ever contracted ? lol

Its something that I have done 7-8 of my 14 days off at a time. It has not been my career, just more of a hobby.
Father is a Contractor/ Master Carpenter.
I'm a first generation college student who has the aptitude and ability to excel in more fields than one.
My passion is medicine, I have gained great self satisfaction in my time with patient interaction.
When I am studying I am fully engaged and love the challenges that come with this field.

 

[DrMidlife]

It's much more important to fit yourself into the med school admissions paradigm than it is to explain why your paradigm is relevant.

You don't want to spend any time justifying your perspective. You will lose the reviewer in seconds.

The reviewer has a pile of apps from 21 year olds. You are in that pile. The fact that you have a lifetime of experience that has colored your perspective and added to your personal armamentum for general problem solving will be incredibly annoying for the reviewer who needs to find his/her checklist items: your GPA, MCAT score, clinical experience, extra curriculars, recommendability, motivation for pursuing medicine, absence of red flags. You need to be easy to understand in a pile of 21 year olds. You need to get through initial cookie cutter review to get to the eyeballs that give a crap about your unique special unicorn snowflake-ness.

Hint at your special sauce. Emphasize your similarity to a traditionally well-qualified 21 year old premed. Be kind to your reviewer.

 

[ROSC]

Full time nights for 6 years.
Took the 2 year Paramedic Program in 6 months through a Selective- Accelerated Course my former Employer offered
Passed National Registry and Skills first attempt
Maintained >3.5 during the course

Began a refocus towards my Bachelors
Here are a few of the Major prereqs and my earnings
in no particular order

Bio I -B
Bio II- A
Bio 318 Anatomy A
Bio 320 Physiology B
Chem I C
Chem II A
Ochem I A
Ochem II B
Physics I A
Micro A
Genetics B
College Algerba A
Trig B


Besides refocusing, preforming well on the MCAT, and gaining shadowing hours I can't think of any other way to lump myself into the general application pool other than to get a hold of 1.21 Gigawatts at 88 mph

 

[DrMidlife]

You spent time in this thread explaining why contracting is relevant to your med school app.

It's not. Give it 25 words in your 15000 word app.

I'm not arguing with your med school specific med school prep.

 

[DrMidlife]

BTW FWIW I spend a lot of time explaining things generally because a lot of these threads get over 10,000 or 100,000 views. My advice is a whole lot less personal than it might seem.

 

[ROSC]

I'm going to get some shadowing and volunteering hours between now and the beginning of the cycle, try and Kill the MCAT, fabricate a solid P.S. If I get an interview hopefully it will work out in my favor.
If I don't get accepted first time applying I will consider my MCAT performance (if applicable). Go in for a counseling session with the Asst Dean of Admissions be receptive to his suggestions, and possibly do a Post Bacc.
I just DONT want to go back to Nights on the Unit for half the pay lol
But will do what I must for matriculation that's how dedicated I am. Along with everything else that I have done up until this point.

 

[ROSC]

BTW FWIW I spend a lot of time explaining things generally because a lot of these threads get over 10,000 or 100,000 views. My advice is a whole lot less personal than it might seem.

Thank you m'am.

In no way am I attempting to be snarky, just trying to lighten the mood.
I value your input, and understand your premise.

Your advice has continuously been noted

 

[Gfliptastic]

I'm going to back a lot of DrMidlife even tho I believe the point is made. You are pigeon-holing yourself in if you make your med school application one-dimensional. Granted, it usually does happen that when EMT's/paramedics are able to make the jump into med school they end up in EM, but that's not what a med school AdCom is looking for. They aren't looking for EMT's to be come ED docs. They are looking for candidates who might be more "malleable", cuz the fact is, the whole reason med schools are expanding is NOT to stock the ED w/ physicians. It's to stock clinics w/ PCP's. CajunMedic had a nice point too.

"Blank slates" are a lot more attractive than "I'm going to be a surgeon" "I'm going to be an ob" or in your case "I'm going to be an ED doc"

To go along w/ what was stated I'm not sure your exposure to EM is realistic of what you really end up doing. ED's are fast-paced glorified clinics. You'll get 4 diarrheas and 6 coughs before you get an exciting case that actually revs your pulse. You will in all likelihood not get a trauma where you get super bloody. If you want blood, you need to be a trauma surgeon. And in modern ED's, there are PA's who do all the "fast-track" cases. You probably won't even suture anyone. Nope, you're ordering labs, imaging, and trying to figure out how to a) discharge this patient or b) admit this patient. THEN, you get to spend a decent amount of time dictating or documenting each patient.

(And in general, medicine is a lot less doing and a lot more documenting)

THAT is EM! So DO go shadow. DO go see that you'll get maybe a neato pneumonia, but guess what? If it's really neat, you're admitting that patient to me. If it isn't, you are discharging that patient and having them follow up w/ their PCP. Stabbing? You are going to have a nurse apply pressure, run some IV fluids wide open, maybe transfuse some PRBC's and platelets, and...call the OR. Heroin overdose? You of all people know that guy/gal probably got narcan on the rig, you're just there to keep them on a monitor to make sure they keep their ABC's.

Get a feel for it all! And be open-minded. Cuz it's almost more status quo to go into med school w/ very specific specialty, yet pop out the other end (sometimes) hating the very thing you were gaga over.

Good luck!!

 

[Fedekz]

I'm a paramedic (worked full time for several years) and got accepted to medical school (MD) for fall 2016 matriculation, I'll give you my 0.02.

I too went through an accelerated paramedic program. Mine ended up being about a year, but could have been shorter if I wanted to rush through it. A shorter or accelerated paramedic program won't matter to medical schools, and typically looks bad when applying for EMS jobs. The fact of it is, most physicians and I would imagine some portion of adcoms don't distinguish or truly know the different between paramedics and emts. Some EMTs call themselves paramedics, which doesn't help our case.

On the interview trail I met numerous EMTs (including some who said they were paramedics, but later came back to said they were just emt basics), and a few paramedics. Most of them didn't work full time, and their experience was limited to campus volunteering, or 1 shift a month of a volunteer fire department. With your years of full time experience it should carry some weight.

At all my interviews but one, my EMS experience and background was negligible and a very short talking point. I was very fortunate to have an interviewer at one school be an ER doctor with interest in EMS, so we talked about EMS and EM for 45 minutes - it resulted in my only acceptance so far, so I'm very fortunate. But I consider this plain luck that out of all the potential interviewers I happened to be matched with an ER doctor.

I would try to get involved in other healthcare fields if you can. I stopped working as a paramedic and took a large pay cut and started working as an aide at a psychiatric hospital. I also started working as a police officer. Every interviewer or application reviewer have their own interests, and get excited reading about particular things. At each separate interview, my other experiences came out. One was particularly interested in my experience working in a psych unit, others wanted my informed position on policing. Only having EMS experience sort of backs yourself into a corner, and can work out really well if your app slides over a former paramedics table, but might not be fully appreciated if a long time psychiatrist looks at it - EMS is a relatively new field, just 20-30 years ago we were essentially taxi cabs for the sick, and some people still see us as that.

 

[alpinism]

Just do whatever interests you the most.

That being said, an MS in EMS is unlikely help very much for med school admissions.

As a side note I'd take advice from non EM residents with a grain of salt. EM can range from glorified primary care to an almost constant onslaught of critically ill patients.
At one of the hospitals where I trained it wasn't uncommon to get as many as 4-5 resuscitations/cardiac arrests in one shift. It all depends on your patient population.