Match 2008? CARMS VS. NRMP

[ocean11]

Hi guys,

Does anyone have any clue which system will be matching first in 2008. For the last few years CARMS has matched before NRMP which gives Canadian students, and those who want to match in Canada an advantage (b/c if you get rejected from CARMS you're still eligable for NRMP match) BUT this year, 2007, CARMS decided to match after the NRMP putting Canadians at a disadvantage... does anyone know whats up for 2008?

thanks!

Ocean11

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[Jspev]

Actually CaRMS is a day before the NRMP this year. Not sure about next year though.

 

[UofTGradStudent]

It was my understanding that CaRMS always matched before NRMP. The CaRMS website, for as long as I can remember, mentioned this big caveat:

From: http://www.carms.ca/eng/ERAS_intro_e.shtml


--
Applying to the US (ERAS) Residency in the US through ERAS

U.S.

Applying to both CaRMS and National Resident Matching Program (NRMP)

In order to facilitate applicants who wish to participate fully in both the U.S. and Canadian Matches, CaRMS honours the contract for the U.S. NRMP Match.

Applicants may register with both matches and apply to canadian and american programs, with the understanding that the NRMP match is run before the CaRMS match.

An applicant can submit a rank order list to both the NRMP and CaRMS.

This year (2007), when participating in both matches, the applicant will have chosen to try to match to American programs before Canadian programs.

If matched to a PGY-1 or PGY-2 position through NRMP, the applicant will automatically and without any notification be withdrawn from CaRMS. It is the applicant's responsibility to inform CaRMS in writing if (s)he has applied to both CaRMS and NRMP.

If, for any reason, an applicant is released from either the Canadian match contract or the U.S. match contract, the Applicant is NOT eligible for the second iteration of the CaRMS Match in the same year. For the purpose of such match, the applicant shall be deemed to be a matched applicant.

 

[Jspev]

True...my misunderstanding. The Canadian match day is March 14 and the US is March 15. However the US actual matching of positions is on March 12.

 

[ocean11]

True...my misunderstanding. The Canadian match day is March 14 and the US is March 15. However the US actual matching of positions is on March 12.

so dosn't that mean that you would get pulled out of Carms if you matched into the NRMP because the ACTUAL date is March 12th?!? and Canada's is March 14?!? could someone clarify this?

Thanks!!

 

[jbish]

My understanding was that this year if you are "matched" on Scramble/Unmatch Day (march 12) through the NRMP (meaning you are not notified that you are unmatched...therefore you matched somewhere) you are withdrawn from CaRMS. But, vice versa is not possible...you cannot see if you go unmatched in CaRMS and then hold on to whatever spot you had through NRMP.
That would mean it's U.S. first, then Canada as a back-up. In previous years (last year comes to mind), the CaRMS match was in February (?) and the U.S. was therefore the back-up to CaRMS when it occurred in March. And at some point (2004?) there was a screw-up due to SARS and the whole process was bumped back in order to give people enough time to interview. This year I know they are trying out a new interview schedule including IMGs and therefore are interviewing people in February instead of January, therefore making a later match-date in March necessary.

 

[EJL]

The best thing to do is to check the NRMP website, because the official dates are posted there.

The thing is that even though the match dates are two days apart between Can and the US, the rank order list deadline for the US match is much earlier. You're getting into a bit of a pinch if you submit a rank order list, and then you have to withdraw. It's risky (in my opinion). So, really, the US match is before the Canadian one, because the Canadian rank order list is due March 7, and the American one is due Feb 21st (that's how it works this year).

If you match to US, then you're withdrawn from CARMS, but because the US match is first, you'd have to officially withdraw (or refrain from submitting a rank order list) from the US match.

EJL

 

[ocean11]

Thanks for the replies,

Dosn't this sort of screw Canadian medical graduates who say want a super competitive specialty like say... Dermatology or Plastic Surgery and want to stay in Canada first BUT don't want to risk going unmatched... YIKES! that sucks!

Good thing I want IM, still though.... I'm matching in 2008 and if the same deal happnes next year... I'm not sure what I'll do... risk going unmatched or apply EVERYWHERE in Canada and hope and pray I get in to at least Saskatchewan YIKES!!!! WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS PEOPLE!!!?!?!??!

 

[Duckie24]

Dosn't this sort of screw Canadian medical graduates who say want a super competitive specialty like say... Dermatology or Plastic Surgery and want to stay in Canada first BUT don't want to risk going unmatched... YIKES! that sucks!

Well, if the matches were flipped wouldn't it screw the US grads in the same position?

 

[ocean11]

Well, if the matches were flipped wouldn't it screw the US grads in the same position?

Ofcourse not for two reasons:

1) If you're not a Canadian citizen I wouldn't bother applying to Canadian school's in the first place (because many residencies won't take you unless you're a permanent citizen)

2) with SO many more programs in the US why would you even bother applying to Canada unless you have family there etc....

 

[roo]

Ofcourse not for two reasons:

1) If you're not a Canadian citizen I wouldn't bother applying to Canadian school's in the first place (because many residencies won't take you unless you're a permanent citizen)

2) with SO many more programs in the US why would you even bother applying to Canada unless you have family there etc....

I agree it would make better sense to have all Canadian citizens do the Canada match first and the US match for a backup for the above reasons, as the ratio of residency positions for the country's med school graduates to is alot closer in Canada than it the US. At some point, I should drop a letter to the policy makers to let them know, as their current focus is trying to prevent Canadian citizens from US postgrad if possible.

Best wishes,
roo

 

[andros]

Hey Ocean,

I think the best thing for you to do would be to relax.

You're not matching until next year. If you know what you want to do already (IM), then work on making yourself the best possible candidate so that applying to the States doesn't matter. It looks like internal is getting more competitive, but it's not that bad. Get involved in research, attend conferences, get known in your department (in a good way... not that super-annoying-clerk way ).

I'm going with the apply everywhere approach. Hopefully it won't come down to the bottom of my rank list, but so be it. Things tend to have a way of working out. Hopefully I'll still think that come March 14th...

Best of luck.

Thanks for the replies,

Dosn't this sort of screw Canadian medical graduates who say want a super competitive specialty like say... Dermatology or Plastic Surgery and want to stay in Canada first BUT don't want to risk going unmatched... YIKES! that sucks!

Good thing I want IM, still though.... I'm matching in 2008 and if the same deal happnes next year... I'm not sure what I'll do... risk going unmatched or apply EVERYWHERE in Canada and hope and pray I get in to at least Saskatchewan YIKES!!!! WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS PEOPLE!!!?!?!??!

 

[Duckie24]

1) If you're not a Canadian citizen I wouldn't bother applying to Canadian school's in the first place (because many residencies won't take you unless you're a permanent citizen)

Hmmm....that doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

[sdn4em]

um....i'm confused....so say you apply to both Carms and the american match, ultimately if you're donig an early match, US first, Cdn match out; If you're doing regular match, then if you submit rank lists for US first, does that mean US match first anyway even if Cdn results come out first? ....yah, the latter is what I'm confused about - please, someone clarify?

 

[sdn4em]

oops guys, i was particuarly tired that post-call day and couldn't follow the train of thought thru this forum initially, but re-reading, think i get it. Now, did I miss something or does anyone know in 2008 which come first Carms or NRMP?

was SARs the only reason things got switched around so that US match is always first or is it random each year? thanks again guys

 

[ocean11]

Hmmm....that doesn't seem very fair to me.

I agree its not fair at all...

 

[AK11111]

Carms has posted its future match dates for the next 5 yrs:

2008: Mar.6
2009: Mar.5

So as long as NRMP match happens around its usual date, Carms will be first.

 

[michelle2013]

Hi ocean 11.

I understand that you'e already applied both to CaRMS and NRMP in 2008.
I am an IMG and plan to do the same this year. What I don't quite understand is the statement
on http://www.carms.ca/eng/ERAS_intro_e.shtml:

'ERAS. CaRMS acts as the Dean's Office (DWS) for Canadian medical students and graduates ONLY applying to positions in the United States.'

What about the IMGs? I suppose that we will have to use both NRMP and ERAS when applying for the US match and CaRMS for applying for the Canadian match.
Is there a cooperation between CaRMS and ERAS (like CaRMS sending electronic copies of the received documents to ERAS or so?

Then, it seems that the deadline for submitting the LoR to ERAS is 1. August (http://www.ecfmg.org/eras/2012-timeline.html), vs. mid November for CaRMS. I find it a little bit strange, as the electives/observerships done after July won't be taken into account. Is it right?

Please tell me about your application experience, any tips?

Thanks.

Michelle