Match Violation Lost my position

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hakim100

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I recently lost my matched PGY1 position and I'm under investigation for a match violation. I found out I lost my position two weeks before most programs started. And then I was placed under investigation for a possible NRMP violation. I was told I can't look for another position affiliated with the match until the investigation is done, but it won't be complete until the end of july. It is probably already to late to find a PGY1 spot by now, but by then it will DEFINITELY be to late.

What are my options? Can I take a spot outside the match and how do I do that.

Is it legal for me to take an empty spot affiliated with the match since the match for this year is complete.

If I take a position outside the match, will I be banned from the match indefinitely or just this year (considering I might be banned from this year anyway).

Does anyone have experience with this, I really need help...

Please no flaming, or rude comments, I can't discuss the details of the violation.
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You can take any spot outside the match. Even positions usually affiliated with the match can be pulled out / used as "pre match". Of course, the fact that you violated the match might give programs pause. If you're found to have violated the match, you could be banned for up to a few years (or less).
 
aProgDirector, are you sure? my NRMP adviser is saying I can't take a position at any program affiliated with the NRMP. so even it is outside the match or a pre-match position, if the program is affiliated with the match, I am not allowed to talk to them...

I have to find a residency program that does not use the NRMP system

Is that even possible...

I feel hopeless...
 
It is already too late to find a PGY1 spot for this year anyway. My advice is that you just accept that you will be sitting out this year, and find a productive way to fill your time that will add to your CV. Sit tight, wait for the final outcome of the NRMP investigation into your case, and don't do ANYTHING to jeopardize your situation further. Basically you already are not going to be a resident this year (2010-2011), and may get banned from the Match for next year, BUT maybe not. However if you push your luck and try to go around the NRMP in ANY way, you risk much more severe consequences. I don't say this to be a downer. It's just that once a person is in potential trouble with the NRMP or a medical board or whatever, they pretty much hold all the cards, and your best shot is to show them that you are cooperative and following all their rules and requirements to the letter.
 
hakim100 said:
aProgDirector, are you sure? my NRMP adviser is saying I can't take a position at any program affiliated with the NRMP. so even it is outside the match or a pre-match position, if the program is affiliated with the match, I am not allowed to talk to them...
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Depends on what your status is.

If an investigation has shown and confirmed that you have violated the match, then the following applies:

b. In addition, the applicant may be barred from subsequent NRMP matches and/or identified as a match violator to participating programs for a period of one to three years or permanently, as determined by the NRMP. Violations committed prior to Match Day may result in the applicant being withdrawn from the match.

c. The applicant also may be barred from accepting or starting a position in another NRMP match-participating program that has a start date within one year from the date of the Final Report. If any NRMP match-participating program offers a position to that applicant to commence training during the one-year period or if the applicant accepts or starts such a position, the NRMP will initiate an investigation to determine whether the applicant or the program has violated the terms of the Participation Agreement.

So you can accept a position as long as it is outside the match and 1 year from the date of the final report indicating a violation occurred. The above can be found on the NRMP site.
 
my status is still pending...final report has not been issued...the final report probably won't be out until August, at which point a one year sanction is practically a two year sanction...

and how am I going to find a spot outside the match? From what I can tell they are practically impossible to find now.

The few I have found that are not currently affiliated with the NRMP, are going to be affiliated with the NRMP for the upcoming match

So basically because I made one small mistake, I can't start residency for one to two years...

The NRMP has entirely way to much power...there is nothing in this country like it...If I can't start residency for two years, I will be the worst intern ever...

Has anyone on this board ever received an NRMP sanction...any advice? there has to be a way to atleast start in a preliminary program...

I'm allowed to appeal the decision if a sanction is given? anyone have experience with that...unfortunately if I appeal it will prolong the final report, and in essence, if I'm found guilty again, prolong the amount of time that I'm banned from the match
 
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hakim100 said:
...So basically because I made one small mistake, I can't start residency for one to two years...

The NRMP has entirely way to much power...there is nothing in this country like it...If I can't start residency for two years, I will be the worst intern ever...
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:thumbdown: I don't know your case or what exactly your "one small mistake" was. However, you need to take some (maybe all) accountability for this matter. You are trying to be a practicing physician. The vast majority of residency applicants make it through without a NRMP violation. You need to act like a responsible, adult, professional.

This tone and theme [of it's unfair] seems rampant. Everyone needs to start taking this stuff seriously.... read your contracts for the NRMP (and also check with NRMP to find out your appeal questions... why are you even asking on SDN?!?!), read your residency contracts, read the rules to your medical license, read your employment contracts (and consider an attorney), etc, etc....

Yes the MCAT requires studying, yes the in-service can be tough, yes, yes... you are informed, now act accordingly. Stop with all the, "it's unfair, I was tricked (into not opening my eyes)....".
 
JackADeli said:
:thumbdown: I don't know your case or what exactly your "one small mistake" was. However, you need to take some (maybe all) accountability for this matter. You are trying to be a practicing physician. The vast majority of residency applicants make it through without a NRMP violation. You need to act like a responsible, adult, professional.

This tone and theme [of it's unfair] seems rampant. Everyone needs to start taking this stuff seriously.... read your contracts for the NRMP (and also check with NRMP to find out your appeal questions... why are you even asking on SDN?!?!), read your residency contracts, read the rules to your medical license, read your employment contracts (and consider an attorney), etc, etc....

Yes the MCAT requires studying, yes the in-service can be tough, yes, yes... you are informed, now act accordingly. Stop with all the, "it's unfair, I was tricked (into not opening my eyes)....".
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I agree. Be humble and cooperative in this process. Go do research while you wait out this mess you got yourself in. That's the price you have to pay for suspicious behavior, even if you escape charges later. You should never ever have the slightest whiff of unprofessional behavior (especially something as important as the USMLE steps or match process) because medicine has zero tolerance for it. Keep your nose clean as possible. We spend too much time and money for our training to sacrifice it over stupid stuff that we should have known better. It sucks that our careers can be completely derailed by some stupid actions, but that's the life you chose when you entered medicine.

I hope that you realize that if you are indeed found to be a match violator and you're allowed to resume the match after a period of time you will have a very difficult time matching. For the sake of your future, you better hope that you're completely exonerated of the charges.
 
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I kinda figured I would get posts like these. I can assure you it was a simple mistake, not something that warrants what is probably going to happen to me.

And you two have obviously not had to deal with the NRMP, because yes most students get through with out any problems.

But they are slow to respond, offer very little council or help, and take months to decided anything. This whole process has taken me 3 months. I have read all the contract information on the NRMP webpage, and i'm aleady aware of the violation and sanction policy. But some of it is ambiguous, and unfortunately in my situation there is no room for ambiguity.

I think what happened to me is going to continue to happen more often, because the NRMP has been growing in its power and university coverage exponentially. I made a very honest mistake and actually came forward with my mistake to the program when I realized the mistake...the NRMP and the program did not catch me, i reported my mistake when I realized it...

I came here seeking advice from someone who has been through what I have, and trying to discover if there are any good options for residency outside the NRMP...

If you have any information regarding that, I would appreciate it...
 
Sorry to hear that this happened to you. I haven't been through this situation but I hope it works out for you. Your best option might be to ask some of the people at your medical school about if they are aware of anyone in your specialty who needs help with research for the year while you wait to see what happens with this. Then hopefully next year you can apply looking for a pre-match position even if you can't go through the match.
 
I stand corrected. I find it somewhat intrusive that the NRMP tells me whom I can and cannot take outside of the match in order to participate in the match. It's not clear that it's legal for them to do so. What is clear is that no one is likely to challenge them on this -- it's simply not worth the effort.

It seems unlikely that a "small innocent" mistake has led to your termination from your residency program and a match investigation. I respect your decision not to post the details here, but usually full match violation investigations are reserved for those who 1) submitted fraudulent applications / credentials; or 2) accepted an out of match spot and then participated in the match anyway.

3 months to assess a situation like this is a reasonable timeline. It may not be as fast as you'd like it to be.

You can certainly contest their findings. The NRMP has a whole policy on violations. At the end:

E. Contesting a Review Panel Report

Nothing in these Policies and Procedures shall prevent any party to a Participation Agreement from seeking arbitration to contest a Review Panel Report under the terms of such Participation Agreement. Any party seeking to contest a Review Panel decision must notify the NRMP of the intent to seek arbitration within 10 business days from that party's receipt of the Panel's report and must file a demand for arbitration with the American Arbitration Association (AAA) within 30 calendar days of receipt of such report. If a party seeks arbitration to contest a Review Panel decision, the penalties imposed in and the distribution of the Review Panel Report will be suspended until the arbitration has concluded. If notice of a party's intent to seek arbitration is not received by the NRMP within 10 business days from that party's receipt of the Review Panel Report, or if the party does not file a demand for arbitration, including all paperwork and fees, with the AAA within 30 calendar days of receipt of the Review Panel Report, that party is deemed to have waived and is barred from later filing a demand for arbitration or seeking other relief.

All notices, reports, and other communications under these Policies and Procedures shall be in writing and shall be deemed received (a) when delivered personally; (b) when received if deposited in the U.S. Mail, postage prepaid, sent registered or certified mail, return receipt requested; (c) 24 hours after being delivered to a nationally recognized and receipted overnight courier service; (d) 24 hours after being sent by e-mail, unless the sending party is notified that the e mail address is invalid or that the message was not delivered; or (e) when sent by facsimile, provided the sending party has received confirmation that the facsimile was transmitted successfully, to the NRMP at the address shown in Section A or to any other party at the address on file at the NRMP or designated by written notice to the NRMP.
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San Francisco Match or AUA Match - Hope you like pediatric neurology, ophthalmology, or urology.

Different match systems from the NRMP
 
aprogdoctor, it was for providing inaccurate information. But the inaccurate information I provided was completely inadvertent, and had nothing to do with my credentials. Not to mention, once I realized my mistake I came forward with it to the program.

When the whole thing is said and done, I will post what happened. Any logical person will come to the same conclusion, I shouldn't be banned from residency for any amount of time. The NRMP has entirely to much power. They are supposed to just be a matching system. Who are they to tell me I can no longer seek a residency spot. Or tell a program they can't take me. The match is over, I need a residency spot, programs need a resident, all of this should no longer be their business...

and yes i'm fully aware of the arbitration process, which takes 3-6 months. And guess what, the final report is postponed until the arbitration process is complete. And sanctions start from the day the final report is issued. So basically if I appeal and i'm found "guilty" again, it will extend the amount of time that I am banned from the match
 
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Is participating in a residency match while in a categorical medicine residency program (because one is not happy with the program) a violation?
 
zestdoc said:
Is participating in a residency match while in a categorical medicine residency program (because one is not happy with the program) a violation?
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gutonc said:
No. To fulfill your Match obligation, you simply need to show up on Day 1 of residency.
Click to expand...
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It is more then just show up... I believe the NRMP/ERAS obligation is that you complete your year of training. I don't believe you are restricted from applying to NRMP for the next cycle while you are in your first year. I don't believe you can show up, start training and then during that year jump to another program without meeting certain guidelines.
 
JackADeli said:
It is more then just show up... I believe the NRMP/ERAS obligation is that you complete your year of training. I don't believe you are restricted from applying to NRMP for the next cycle while you are in your first year. I don't believe you can show up, start training and then during that year jump to another program without meeting certain guidelines.
Click to expand...

No...really...it's just show up.

5.1 Match Commitment

The listing of an applicant by a program on its certified rank order list or of a program by an applicant on the applicant's certified rank order list establishes a binding commitment to offer or to accept an appointment if a match results and to begin training on the date specified in the appointment contract.
Click to expand...

There are potential contract law issues if you show up on day 1 and quit without giving whatever notice the contract stipulates, but you wouldn't be a Match violator.
 
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Thanks folks!

Btw, how are these repeat applicants looked at? I mean- you are wriggling out of a commitment that you made, but at the same time- they know how to handle intern year.

@Hakim100: Sorry for trolling on your thread.
 
Its ok. So my analyst at the NRMP left for vacation this week right before my file could go to the review board. She won't be back until beginning of aug. So now my life is on hold two more weeks. I'm a strong happy person, but this has seriously tested me.
 
zestdoc said:
Thanks folks!

Btw, how are these repeat applicants looked at? I mean- you are wriggling out of a commitment that you made, but at the same time- they know how to handle intern year.

@Hakim100: Sorry for trolling on your thread.
Click to expand...

It depends on your application, LORs, evals and in some fields, your in training exams. There is no global answer to this question.
 
needhelp12 said:
Hi ,

I have also received a notice from NRMP that they have started an violation investigation regarding my action in SOAP and I should reply them in 10 days. I was SOAP-eligible and applied to a program and then I sent an email to that program mentioning that I have applied there.
Has anybody had such a story before and what happened then?
What should I do now?
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If I remember right, you aren't supposed to contact the programs.....did you read the SOAP rules?
 
needhelp12 said:
Hi ,

I have also received a notice from NRMP that they have started an violation investigation regarding my action in SOAP and I should reply them in 10 days. I was SOAP-eligible and applied to a program and then I sent an email to that program mentioning that I have applied there.
Has anybody had such a story before and what happened then?
What should I do now?
Click to expand...
A better question is why the school passed that information on to the NRMP at all. Panicking and jumping the gun is forgivable, assuming you didn't machine gun call all the schools, deans, PDs, etc. incessantly. It sounds petty. They don't really need to cover their ass if all they did was receive an email.
 
I'd be quite incensed if I heard that our PD was potentially harming the careers of applicants by reporting this kind of thing outside of the extremes I mentioned earlier. I'd probably take it to our board of directors to insure it never happened again.
I doubt they have an obligation to report something as trivial as a single email. It is draconian and foolish.
 
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IlDestriero said:
I'd be quite incensed if I heard that our PD was potentially harming the careers of applicants by reporting this kind of thing outside of the extremes I mentioned earlier. I'd probably take it to our board of directors to insure it never happened again.
I doubt they have an obligation to report something as trivial as a single email. It is draconian and foolish.
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On principle i agree with you. Maybe a, "stop contacting programs. It's a violation and will be reported if you do it again". A good scary warning to correct them as opposed to crush their future
 
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Any advice? What should I do now?
Have you heard anything similar and how they handled it?
 
Hey for DO students,
Let's say one matched into an ACGME spot via the NRMP. But the location is not desirable anymore due to a spouse being unable to move.

However, there is another position through the AOA that is not participating in the match that is available--would one be able to apply at the AOA program assuming the PD at your current residency is cool with it or even the PD at the new place is ok with it? I mean you didn't sign any employment contract or anything so you would not be breaching that.

You would be penalized for an NRMP violation, which could bar you from further matches through NRMP, but would it have any impact on you later on assuming you don't apply to anything via NRMP again?
 
as90 said:
Hey for DO students,
Let's say one matched into an ACGME spot via the NRMP. But the location is not desirable anymore due to a spouse being unable to move.

However, there is another position through the AOA that is not participating in the match that is available--would one be able to apply at the AOA program assuming the PD at your current residency is cool with it or even the PD at the new place is ok with it? I mean you didn't sign any employment contract or anything so you would not be breaching that.

You would be penalized for an NRMP violation, which could bar you from further matches through NRMP, but would it have any impact on you later on assuming you don't apply to anything via NRMP again?
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You'd be a scumbag and you'd ruin your schools reputation with that program.

You didn't sign anything except agree to the terms of the NRMP match.
 
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DrBowtie said:
You'd be a scumbag and you'd ruin your schools reputation with that program.

You didn't sign anything except agree to the terms of the NRMP match.
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This. And of course, you'd have a match violation that could lead to consequences all the way up to a lifetime ban from the match if the NRMP was feeling testy. Hope you weren't planning on doing a fellowship.
 
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DrBowtie said:
You'd be a scumbag and you'd ruin your schools reputation with that program.

You didn't sign anything except agree to the terms of the NRMP match.
Click to expand...

I don't want to be a scumbag, but circumstances change and I feel I have a right to change my mind based on them.

Also, could the school prevent me from graduating if I decide not to honor my NRMP match and just go for an outside match?
 
as90 said:
I don't want to be a scumbag, but circumstances change and I feel I have a right to change my mind based on them.

Also, could the school prevent me from graduating if I decide not to honor my NRMP match and just go for an outside match?
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The point of contracts is that you don't have a right to change your mind
 
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as90 said:
I don't want to be a scumbag, but circumstances change and I feel I have a right to change my mind based on them.

Also, could the school prevent me from graduating if I decide not to honor my NRMP match and just go for an outside match?
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you do...but you also have to accept the consequences of that decision...and you may end up being identified as a match violator and be banned from participating in the match...if you stay AOA the whole time and not apply for an ACGME fellowship (which starting this year, you can't if you don't do an ACGME residency or did they stay that with the merger?). Not sure how your school could do that, but certainly won't be happy if you are seen in a poor light by the program you matched at...won't look good for your school...
 
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as90 said:
I don't want to be a scumbag, but circumstances change and I feel I have a right to change my mind based on them.

Also, could the school prevent me from graduating if I decide not to honor my NRMP match and just go for an outside match?
Click to expand...

If everyone could just switch because they changed their mind, it would be total chaos. What makes you special that you would get to just switch? Nothing. Sorry. You are bound by contract. If you break it, you risk never getting to apply for fellowships or other ACGME programs in the future. Good luck with that.
 
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The NRMP does have a waiver process. If there is a true, new issue that has come up since the time that you certified your match list you can ask for a waiver. They will review the situation and decide. If you decide to simply not honor your match, as others have mentioned the only thing that will happen is a likely ban from the NRMP for some period of time. In that case, you had better hope that this AOA program you are going to is "worth it". Your school will not withhold your degree. With the upcoming ACGME/AOA merger, if the matches are combined (which seems likely) the AOA program could be "in trouble" for taking you, but I think any match merger is years away and this is likely to be water under the bridge by then.
 
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needhelp12 said:
It was the whole story.
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At this point, the best thing to do is describe your side of the story. If you contacted a single program, apologize, and take ownership it's unlikely that anything bad will come of this. Remember that if anyone reports a possible violation, the NRMP must investigate -- so it doesn't mean you've actually done anything seriously wrong. If you contacted 100's of programs, that's going to be harder to explain away.
 
as90 said:
I don't want to be a scumbag, but circumstances change and I feel I have a right to change my mind based on them.

Also, could the school prevent me from graduating if I decide not to honor my NRMP match and just go for an outside match?
Click to expand...

As usual, aPD's advice is spot on. If your spouse being unable to move is truly a new development since you certified your ROL, then you may be successful in applying for a waiver, and that's fine--there is a reason that the waiver process exists in the first place.

If it was a pre-existing problem... well, then you should never have ranked the program in the first place. The time for contemplating whether or not you would be willing to move away from your spouse for that program was last month. Backing out of a match affects the program, the other residents at that program, the people who may have been bumped further down their rank lists because you took a spot at that program, and ultimately some unfortunate soul who completely failed to match. As you say, you have the right to change your mind, but you have to accept the consequences that come along with doing so late in the game because it really creates a problem for a lot of people.
 
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I think NatMatch/AOA is a match particpating institution so ..I don't think you could do that as it states on NRMP website,:

Applicants with a confirmed violation of NRMP policy are subject to the following sanctions:

  • One year bar from accepting or starting a position in any program sponsored by a Match-participating institution
 
aProgDirector said:
At this point, the best thing to do is describe your side of the story. If you contacted a single program, apologize, and take ownership it's unlikely that anything bad will come of this. Remember that if anyone reports a possible violation, the NRMP must investigate -- so it doesn't mean you've actually done anything seriously wrong. If you contacted 100's of programs, that's going to be harder to explain away.
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I really freaked out and don't know what to write in response!! Do you think that is there any possibility of case withdrawal if I contact the program director and talk to him? It's very unfair that an email is going to ruin my career and future! Do you know any lawyer associate with these kinds of cases?
 
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needhelp12 said:
I really freaked out and don't know what to write in response!! Do you think that is there any possibility of case withdrawal if I contact the program director and talk to him? It's very unfair that an email is going to ruin my career and future! Do you any lawyer associate with these kind of cases?
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You dummy. Contacting the program director caused this....do not contact them again
 
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needhelp12 said:
I really freaked out and don't know what to write in response!! Do you think that is there any possibility of case withdrawal if I contact the program director and talk to him? It's very unfair that an email is going to ruin my career and future! Do you know any lawyer associate with these kinds of cases?
Click to expand...

You're kidding right?
 
needhelp12 said:
I really freaked out and don't know what to write in response!! Do you think that is there any possibility of case withdrawal if I contact the program director and talk to him? It's very unfair that an email is going to ruin my career and future! Do you know any lawyer associate with these kinds of cases?
Click to expand...

If you contacted a single program, simply explain to the NRMP that you made a mistake and that you are sorry. Explain why you sent it. Chances are, they will simply tell you not to do it again, and that will be the end of it. If you blasted an email to 200+ programs, then that's less good.
 
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hire a lawyer who is familiar w/ match and let them help you with everything you write/say right from the beginning. if you just do a simple google search you can find a good lawyer who has won cases against them. if you admit/apologize to anything it will be used against you because their rules are strict. most people would forgive an honest mistake, but this company is not like most people. good luck
 
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