MD chances for a non-traditional pre-med

[kitanai]

Hi there, I am reapplying for the 3rd time this cycle. I have a foreign undergraduate degree but I did take a Masters Degree in Laboratory Medicine in a 4-year US university. My cGPA is 3.5. I had a lot of upper level sciences courses in grad school. My first MCAT was 11PS 7VS 10BS = 28N. My 2nd MCAT: 13PS 7Vs 12BS =32P. And my third was 10PS 8VS 11BS =29P.

I got interviews from my state school on my both attempts. I didn't get in because Univ of Washington's interviews are tough. I didn't get any interviews from out-of-state schools. So my question is would, it be fine if I re-take all of my pre-requisites in a community college? My plan is to apply this year for my state school while I taking pre-med courses so I can apply broadly to any US MD schools that won't accept foreign credentials. If I am lucky this coming cycle then I'll stop taking course works. What do you guys think? Do you think this is the best route? I am turning 30.

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[Catalystik]

Hi there, I am reapplying for the 3rd time this cycle. I have a foreign undergraduate degree but I did take a Masters Degree in Laboratory Medicine in a 4-year US university. My cGPA is 3.5. I had a lot of upper level sciences courses in grad school. My first MCAT was 11PS 7VS 10BS = 28N. My 2nd MCAT: 13PS 7Vs 12BS =32P. And my third was 10PS 8VS 11BS =29P.

I got interviews from my state school on my both attempts. I didn't get in because Univ of Washington's interviews are tough. I didn't get any interviews from out-of-state schools. So my question is would, it be fine if I re-take all of my pre-requisites in a community college? My plan is to apply this year for my state school while I taking pre-med courses so I can apply broadly to any US MD schools that won't accept foreign credentials. If I am lucky this coming cycle then I'll stop taking course works. What do you guys think? Do you think this is the best route? I am turning 30.

Where is the foreign undergrad degree from?
Did you have a transcript evaluation service "translate" your undergrad school's transcript? What was your cGPA for undergrad alone?
How many credit hours did you take in grad school?
Are you a US citizen or greencard holder? Are you ESL?
You are aware that US med schools generally require 60-90 credit hours earned in US or Canadian accredited schools, generally including all prerequisites? There are a few, mostly highly-selective schools, that require only 30 hours. Taking your prerequisites at a CC isn't the best possible move, but you might get by doing it that way.

 

[kitanai]

My foreign undergrad degree is from the Philippines. I have my undergraduate transcript evaluated and it turns out I have 294 credit hours. My cGPA is 3.2 from my undergraduate degree.

I had 91 credit hours taken in grad school from my home state university but it doesn't include pre-med prerequisites. My courses from graduate school are all 400 and above. I have 1 year of research as well.

I am a US citizen and english is not my first language but I can converse very well. I felt the biggest mistake I did was I should have taken my undergraduate here in the US but I didn't do it. Yet in reflection, I felt I had more clinical experience in my home country serving the underserved patients.

What could be then the best possible route to get in? Is there a disadvantage in taking all prerequisites in a CC? It is really expensive to take course works in a university and my salary cannot afford it. Thanks.

 

[Catalystik]

Unfortunately, your GPAs don't shine in either undergrad or grad school. The average cGPA for MD acceptees is 3.67 and for BCPM is 3.61. By taking more undergrad coursework, you have the opportunity to show the ability to get great grades once again. I suggest that a 3.7+ will be essential. Higher would be better considering that CC coursework is commonly assumed, right or wrong, to have less rigor. If you can't afford a 4-year school, then do what you have to do to get the coursework completed.

ESL might be a reason for adcomms to overlook your low VS, but if you resided in the US for > 7 years, thi is less likely. I see why you retook the MCAT, but unfortunately it did not work out for you. Many med schools mainly regard the latest MCAT. Some look at the best, and others will create a new composite from the best subscores. More and more, schools are expected to average all the scores based on new data showing this is most indicative of an applicants future performance. You may have to call schools to find out what their policy is.

So you have a year of research and some clinical experience from abroad. What is your US clinical experience and physician shadowing? What is your nonmedical community service? Any teaching or leadership? Hobbies, sports, or artistic endeavors? When you have weak stats, it is even more important to have well-rounded experiences to list.

Have you considered applying to a med school in the Philippines? Or to DO med schools which do accept foreign transcripts (and for which your stats are more on par)?

 

[kitanai]

Unfortunately, your GPAs don't shine in either undergrad or grad school. The average cGPA for MD acceptees is 3.67 and for BCPM is 3.61. By taking more undergrad coursework, you have the opportunity to show the ability to get great grades once again. I suggest that a 3.7+ will be essential. Higher would be better considering that CC coursework is commonly assumed, right or wrong, to have less rigor. If you can't afford a 4-year school, then do what you have to do to get the coursework completed.

ESL might be a reason for adcomms to overlook your low VS, but if you resided in the US for > 7 years, thi is less likely. I see why you retook the MCAT, but unfortunately it did not work out for you. Many med schools mainly regard the latest MCAT. Some look at the best, and others will create a new composite from the best subscores. More and more, schools are expected to average all the scores based on new data showing this is most indicative of an applicants future performance. You may have to call schools to find out what their policy is.

So you have a year of research and some clinical experience from abroad. What is your US clinical experience and physician shadowing? What is your nonmedical community service? Any teaching or leadership? Hobbies, sports, or artistic endeavors? When you have weak stats, it is even more important to have well-rounded experiences to list.

Have you considered applying to a med school in the Philippines? Or to DO med schools which do accept foreign transcripts (and for which your stats are more on par)?

I have considered applying to med schools in the Philippines and DO schools as well. This would be my last resort. I have tons of shadowing experience from 7 US MDs in various setting and specialties. I did volunteer with our senior citizens in a nursing home for 3 months. I had some TA experience for teaching clinical microbiology--would this count as teaching somewhat or leadership? I am thinking of getting more experiences to show my leadership potential but I don't know how. What do you think are experiences that can show leadership skills? I may have to do research on this.

OK, I'll take my pre-requisite courses in a CC (in a full load to finish in 1.5 years) and hopefully get a competitive GPA. I'll probably take more english and humanities courses. I think this is a great opportunity to have a higher GPA. So 3.7+ GPA is something I'll aim for. If I did not get in to UW this cycle then I'll probably continue my courseworks so I can apply broadly to private medical schools, and in schools in Texas and DO schools as well next cycle.

Do you have some more suggestions to improve my application? Thanks!

 

[Catalystik]

I have considered applying to med schools in the Philippines and DO schools as well. This would be my last resort. I have tons of shadowing experience from 7 US MDs in various setting and specialties.

1) I did volunteer with our senior citizens in a nursing home for 3 months.
2) I had some TA experience for teaching clinical microbiology--would this count as teaching somewhat or leadership?
3) I am thinking of getting more experiences to show my leadership potential but I don't know how. What do you think are experiences that can show leadership skills? I may have to do research on this.

OK, I'll take my pre-requisite courses in a CC (in a full load to finish in 1.5 years) and hopefully get a competitive GPA. I'll probably take more english and humanities courses. I think this is a great opportunity to have a higher GPA. So 3.7+ GPA is something I'll aim for. If I did not get in to UW this cycle then I'll probably continue my courseworks so I can apply broadly to private medical schools, and in schools in Texas and DO schools as well next cycle.

4) Do you have some more suggestions to improve my application? Thanks!

1) The average applicant has 150 hours of clinial experience gained over 1.5 years. Your US-based experience is sorta sparse and I suggest you do something about that. Shadowing is a separate category and yours would seem to be fine. Most schools expect to see both types of experience.

2) I would list it as teaching, which is also a valued category.

3) My favorite post giving examples of leadership:

From a conversation with an adcomm member I learned that (at his school) one gets points for the intensity of the leadership experiences listed. Here are some examples of activities I've learned of on SDN and how I'd rank them (opinions, as always, may vary). Multiple experiences increase the score. It's OK to shine in another area if leadership isn't your forte.

Level I: 1) President of a club for a year. Led meetings. 2) Start small, common-interest club eg card playing, sport, adventure, campus cleanup. 3) Train freshman mentors. 4) Initiate food drive among your friends and collect donations for a food pantry. 5) Member of student senate.

Level II: 1) Club officer multiple years, eventually president, key in initiating new projects. 2) Start new club, attracting 20+ members to do community service, and/or arranging speakers, and/or successfully campaigning for a change on campus. 3) Shift supervisor or trainer of new employees. 4) Team captain. 5) Officer of student senate.

Level III: 1) Board member for health-related organization or charitable foundation for several years who helps organize/participate in health fairs, involved in presentations to get funding for projects, brings opinions to the meetings and campaigns to effect change. 2) President of three clubs some of which do community service or raise money for projects. 3) Organize 3-4 charity concerts with large attendance coordinating multiple committees. 4) Direct a play or other large production.

Level IV: 1) Chief Editor of school paper, writing editorials to sway opinion. Direct policy and staff. 2) President of student senate; initiates and carries through major change, coordinating large subcommittees. 3) NCO or officer in the armed forces who trained/led a team/unit in combat.

Level V: 1) Founded a charitable group, raised thousands of dollars for many projects, multiple year involvement, group continues after your departure. Branch groups started in other locations under your leadership. 2) Start a free clinic, recruit doctors, nurses, and student workers to volunteer their time. Raise the money for supplies/pharmaceuticals or get them donated. Help hundreds to thousands of patients in the time you're involved. 3) Start a successful company with 5+ employees and make a profit. Guide growth, legal and financial aspects.

4) You are lacking nonmedical community service. UW particularly likes to see dedicated service to its neediest populations. I suggest you start this up, too and participate in an organization you care about on a weekly basis.

 

[kitanai]

1) The average applicant has 150 hours of clinial experience gained over 1.5 years. Your US-based experience is sorta sparse and I suggest you do something about that. Shadowing is a separate category and yours would seem to be fine. Most schools expect to see both types of experience.

2) I would list it as teaching, which is also a valued category.

3) My favorite post giving examples of leadership:
4) You are lacking nonmedical community service. UW particularly likes to see dedicated service to its neediest populations. I suggest you start this up, too and participate in an organization you care about on a weekly basis.

Thank you! I really appreciate your input! I now have a gut feeling or idea on how you show your leadership skills.

I would do more volunteering for the neediest population then, I think this is something that I feel like doing. Thank you so much.

 

[Catalystik]

Happy to help. Good Luck!

 

[Alejandro]

And remember to have strong reflections from the work you do. I'm from Seattle as well (UWash) and from a volunteer standpoint, the way how you'll shine more is being able to articulate something with meaning from your volunteer experiences. Too many volunteers in our ED, for example, clock-in and clock-out. None of them try to talk to patients. I do appreciate the fact they restock our linens and what not, but being a volunteer allows you to interact with people, which is what you'll be doing if you're a practitioner who has lots of patient interaction (minus rads and path).

 

[kitanai]

Yes, I am hoping that my volunteering application for Harborview Medical Center be approved. Thank you for your insights about articulating about getting meaning out of those volunteering experiences.

 

[kitanai]

Happy to help. Good Luck!

Hi Catalystik!

I just want to update and say thank you. I got at in at Univ of Washington. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Catalystik]

Hi Catalystik!

I just want to update and say thank you. I got at in at Univ of Washington. Thanks for the advice!

I'm so happy for you. It was a long road but your efforts paid off. I appreciate that you returned to this thread to let us know the outcome.

Do you have the time to tell us what changes you made in your application since posting here?

 

[kitanai]

I'm so happy for you. It was a long road but your efforts paid off. I appreciate that you returned to this thread to let us know the outcome.

Do you have the time to tell us what changes you made in your application since posting here?

I followed your advice. I retook my pre-requisites. I retook ALL my science courses at UW (because it's rigorous) and all my social sciences, humanities, writing and etc. at a local community college. I was able to pull out a 3.8 sGPA and 4.0 on non-science courses. I did all of this in a span of 1.5 years. I re-applied and I got accepted.

Personally, as a foreign non-traditional student, I realized that it was my low grades from my foreign institution that was hindering my success. But after I retook EVERYTHING in 1.5 years and got a good grade, I was able to convince the admissions that I can handle the rigorous courseworks of medical school. BTW, I didn't quit my job, I was working nightshifts during weekends to be able to attend classes during the days of MWF, from 7 am to 10:30 pm. Online classes for humanities and writing classes saved me some time just to get the credits. Also, there are combined courseworks as well that saved me time, for example you can take a history class with a writing component on it. So you get a 5 credit for history and 5 credit for writing just by attending one class.

In summary, my first two application was beaming with lots of clinical experience, shadowing experience but my foreign grades were lackluster so I didn't get in. However, retaking EVERYTHING and getting a good GPA helped, which you suggested I should improve!!!

 

[ZedsDed]

I followed your advice. I retook my pre-requisites. I retook ALL my science courses at UW (because it's rigorous) and all my social sciences, humanities, writing and etc. at a local community college. I was able to pull out a 3.8 sGPA and 4.0 on non-science courses. I did all of this in a span of 1.5 years. I re-applied and I got accepted.

Personally, as a foreign non-traditional student, I realized that it was my low grades from my foreign institution that was hindering my success. But after I retook EVERYTHING in 1.5 years and got a good grade, I was able to convince the admissions that I can handle the rigorous courseworks of medical school. BTW, I didn't quit my job, I was working nightshifts during weekends to be able to attend classes during the days of MWF, from 7 am to 10:30 pm. Online classes for humanities and writing classes saved me some time just to get the credits. Also, there are combined courseworks as well that saved me time, for example you can take a history class with a writing component on it. So you get a 5 credit for history and 5 credit for writing just by attending one class.

In summary, my first two application was beaming with lots of clinical experience, shadowing experience but my foreign grades were lackluster so I didn't get in. However, retaking EVERYTHING and getting a good GPA helped, which you suggested I should improve!!!

Good for you, you deserve it

 

[Catalystik]

I followed your advice. I retook my pre-requisites. I retook ALL my science courses at UW (because it's rigorous) and all my social sciences, humanities, writing and etc. at a local community college. I was able to pull out a 3.8 sGPA and 4.0 on non-science courses. I did all of this in a span of 1.5 years. I re-applied and I got accepted.

Personally, as a foreign non-traditional student, I realized that it was my low grades from my foreign institution that was hindering my success. But after I retook EVERYTHING in 1.5 years and got a good grade, I was able to convince the admissions that I can handle the rigorous courseworks of medical school. BTW, I didn't quit my job, I was working nightshifts during weekends to be able to attend classes during the days of MWF, from 7 am to 10:30 pm. Online classes for humanities and writing classes saved me some time just to get the credits. Also, there are combined courseworks as well that saved me time, for example you can take a history class with a writing component on it. So you get a 5 credit for history and 5 credit for writing just by attending one class.

In summary, my first two application was beaming with lots of clinical experience, shadowing experience but my foreign grades were lackluster so I didn't get in. However, retaking EVERYTHING and getting a good GPA helped, which you suggested I should improve!!!

Well done!