MD MD, MD/PhD, 41 MCAT, low GPA due to study abroad, what to expect?

[PianoManHG]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here! I need a little help with my school list and what to expect.
I just graduated and am applying to MD and MD-PhD programs this cycle. Also considering DO and DO/PhD. My primary interest is MD/PhD but I know many doctors also do excellent research, so MD is okay too depending on the school/program. Either way, at most schools you have to be accepted by the Medical school to be considered for MD/PhD.

Current job: Working full-time in a clinical research lab at the Mayo clinic. Involves patient interaction, clinical research skills, data analysis, and hopefully poster/manuscript composition.
School: Michigan State University (still a MI resident)
Degrees: BS Physiology, BS Neuroscience
MCAT: 41
cGPA/sGPA: 3.6/3.5 - performed poorly in some classes while studying abroad, without them my GPAs would be 3.86/3.8
-Has this ruined my chances? I scored 3.5/4.0s on my classed at MSU, but got 3.5s, 2.5s, and even 0.0s on my study abroad classes. It was a difficult time for me, but I think I can frame it as a learning experience that led to maturation and independence. Any suggestions on whether to do this in personal statement or work/activities section?
ECs:
-4+ years research experience. Est 2000 hours.
-Gave poster presentations at several national and local conferences
-Second author on one publication (experimental contribution), first author on another (ran experiments, composed manuscript and figures, reviewed manuscript, etc)
-Five research awards, including an APS Undergraduate Summer Research Fellowship and both David S. Bruce Award
-120 hours clinical volunteering at nearby hospital; three different volunteer positions over various summers/semesters
-270 hours volunteering at a nearby crisis center, developed empathy, compassion, and crisis intervention skills
-40 hours completed shadowing experience (a podiatrist and a clinical psychologist - do they count? The clinical psychologist worked with chronic pain patients, was very worthwhile because I got to see the process of medical treatment from their perspective),
-150 hours (expected) shadowing of a practicing MD/PhD while I'm at Mayo
-Intercollegiate athletics - rowed competitively for 3 years, started while studying abroad. We practiced 6 days a week, 2 to 2.5 hours a day - very good for discipline, time management, etc
-Other significant experience - Freshman year I was in an auto accident and spent a lot of time in hospital/rehab. Losing friends and almost dying changed my perspective of life, made me realize how awesome and fascinating human medicine is, and has motivated me to improve others' lives by going into medical practice - obviously this doesn't qualify me for anything but it is a part of my story that is unique and at the very least will get the ADCOM's attention.

Given my poor GPA and lack of shadowing/clinical experience, any suggestions of where I can reasonably apply? Especially this late in the summer? Do I have a shot at any top 10 schools? My plan right now is to apply to ~20 of the top 25.

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for your help!

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[md-2020]

You're a lock for MD; can't speak to MD-PhD. Apply broadly but especially this late don't expect much from Top 20. I'd wait until next year for more options, tbh.

 

[Goro]

My take on your situation is that a 41 MCAT is nothing to sneeze at. However, MD/PhD candidates are at the top of the top of the applicant pool, and so the GPA will hurt.

For MD, I think you're fine, but don't try to explain the poor overseas GPAs, it will only come off as excuses. If you got sick, you can work it in somewhere, but always be prepared for an reader/screener/interviewer to think, "why didn't you just come home in stead of foolishly trying to bull your way through when you weren't at the top of your game?"

Hi everyone,

First time poster here! I need a little help with my school list and what to expect.
I just graduated and am applying to MD and MD-PhD programs this cycle. Also considering DO and DO/PhD. My primary interest is MD/PhD but I know many doctors also do excellent research, so MD is okay too depending on the school/program. Either way, at most schools you have to be accepted by the Medical school to be considered for MD/PhD.

Current job: Working full-time in a clinical research lab at the Mayo clinic. Involves patient interaction, clinical research skills, data analysis, and hopefully poster/manuscript composition.
School: Michigan State University (still a MI resident)
Degrees: BS Physiology, BS Neuroscience
MCAT: 41
cGPA/sGPA: 3.6/3.5 - performed poorly in some classes while studying abroad, without them my GPAs would be 3.86/3.8
-Has this ruined my chances? I scored 3.5/4.0s on my classed at MSU, but got 3.5s, 2.5s, and even 0.0s on my study abroad classes. It was a difficult time for me, but I think I can frame it as a learning experience that led to maturation and independence. Any suggestions on whether to do this in personal statement or work/activities section?
ECs:
-4+ years research experience. Est 2000 hours.
-Gave poster presentations at several national and local conferences
-Second author on one publication (experimental contribution), first author on another (ran experiments, composed manuscript and figures, reviewed manuscript, etc)
-Five research awards, including an APS Undergraduate Summer Research Fellowship and both David S. Bruce Award
-120 hours clinical volunteering at nearby hospital; three different volunteer positions over various summers/semesters
-270 hours volunteering at a nearby crisis center, developed empathy, compassion, and crisis intervention skills
-40 hours completed shadowing experience (a podiatrist and a clinical psychologist - do they count? The clinical psychologist worked with chronic pain patients, was very worthwhile because I got to see the process of medical treatment from their perspective),
-150 hours (expected) shadowing of a practicing MD/PhD while I'm at Mayo
-Intercollegiate athletics - rowed competitively for 3 years, started while studying abroad. We practiced 6 days a week, 2 to 2.5 hours a day - very good for discipline, time management, etc
-Other significant experience - Freshman year I was in an auto accident and spent a lot of time in hospital/rehab. Losing friends and almost dying changed my perspective of life, made me realize how awesome and fascinating human medicine is, and has motivated me to improve others' lives by going into medical practice - obviously this doesn't qualify me for anything but it is a part of my story that is unique and at the very least will get the ADCOM's attention.

Given my poor GPA and lack of shadowing/clinical experience, any suggestions of where I can reasonably apply? Especially this late in the summer? Do I have a shot at any top 10 schools? My plan right now is to apply to ~20 of the top 25.

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for your help!

 

[jd989898]

@Goro if an applicant has good stats for MD (3.6-3.7/34-35), but is borderline for MD/PhD, what are their options? Retaking a 35 apparently looks foolish, and doing an SMP for a 3.7 is apparently unnecessary. Do they just end up having to get their MD and PhD separately?

 

[Goro]

Apply to the MD/PhD program where the odds would be highest (like your state schools) and hope for the best. You'll get dumped into the regular MD pool in the worst case scenario.

It would be very foolish to get both degrees separately, given that one can do just as much as a MD research-wise MD/PhD as an MD.

@Goro if an applicant has good stats for MD (3.6-3.7/34-35), but is borderline for MD/PhD, what are their options? Retaking a 35 apparently looks foolish, and doing an SMP for a 3.7 is apparently unnecessary. Do they just end up having to get their MD and PhD separately?

 

[PianoManHG]

Thanks for the feedback Goro & md-2020. I'll apply broadly and keep my fingers crossed!

 

[Doug Underhill]

Some schools let you apply MD only and join the MSTP later. Well, you can at my university, anyway, not sure about others.

 

[GrapesofRath]

@Goro if an applicant has good stats for MD (3.6-3.7/34-35), but is borderline for MD/PhD, what are their options? Retaking a 35 apparently looks foolish, and doing an SMP for a 3.7 is apparently unnecessary. Do they just end up having to get their MD and PhD separately?

The thing about MD/PhD's is even if you have good stats its still very possible to get completely shut out for them, even the state ones. That's just the nature of the beast.
3.8/35 are the stats for the AVERAGE matriculant. Note that even for top programs the stats don't vary that much. I linked Pitt's MD/PhD program stats below and even for a top 20 program there isn't too much variation from that. All MD/PhD programs are fiercely competitive.

As for MD/PhD's this will help the OP
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/121086/data/mdphd_isitrightforme.pdf

About 30% of matriculants are in your shoes GPA wise. Now granted there are a number of them with hooks(URMS or serious research excellence such as a really strong publication record) but I still think you can absolutely be competitive for MD/PhD's. Like I said above there are hardly any gurantees but a strong MCAT performance and strong research is what generates attention from MD/PhD ADCOMs. I don't think the GPA is a death sentence, even for some non-state school ones. What I will say is one semester like that where you legitimately didn't even pass some classes if it happened recently(junior or senior year) reflects poorly. It makes it look like you couldn't handle your priorties going abroad. And like Goro said, even if the issue was simply you were sick, it is going to ring kind of hollow somewhat to say I was still fine enough to stay abroad and not even come back to the States but not well enough to do well in classes.

Here is the other problem with looking at stats for MD/PhD's of top 20 programs; sample size. A perfect illustration for Pitt
https://www.mdphd.pitt.edu/admissions_statistics.asp

Hard to get too much out of the stats when there are literally FOUR people in a class some years. All in all though, I do think there is some leinancy for a poor GPA with that kind of MCAT and your research experience. Go ahead and apply. Just keep perspective.

 

[Banco]

For MD expect lots of interviews; your GPA is still decent, and your MCAT is awesome. Plus once an eye gets on your application it will be noticed that you had 1 bad semester, not consistently mediocre ones.

I think you're still competitive for MD/PhD due to your MCAT; your research exp. is very good as well. So go ahead and apply.

3.8/35 are the stats for the AVERAGE matriculant. Note that even for top programs the stats don't vary that much. I linked Pitt's MD/PhD program stats below and even for a top 20 program there isn't too much variation from that. All MD/PhD programs are fiercely competitive.

Interestingly enough Pitt's regular MD matriculant stats are higher than MD/PhD @ 3.85/36: http://www.medadmissions.pitt.edu/our-students/

 

[GrapesofRath]

For MD expect lots of interviews; your GPA is still decent, and your MCAT is awesome. Plus once an eye gets on your application it will be noticed that you had 1 bad semester, not consistently mediocre ones.

I think you're still competitive for MD/PhD due to your MCAT; your research exp. is very good as well. So go ahead and apply.



Interestingly enough Pitt's regular MD matriculant stats are higher than MD/PhD @ 3.85/36: http://www.medadmissions.pitt.edu/our-students/

That can tend to happen when you are literally comparing it to a sample size of FOUR people like it was last year for MD/PhD.

It does also bring the greater point that past a certain point stats just don't carry that much value once they reach a certain threshold of being so high