MD vs (non-MD) PhD admissions

[mariambaby3]

How difficult is PhD program admissions (just Ph.D; not MD-PhD) compared to medical school? For an applicant who is qualified for matriculation to a top-20 medical school, would they be equally likely to gain admissions to a top-10 science (non-MD) PhD program?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[efle]

Selectivity of PhD programs varies a lot with the subject (for example Math PhD programs are generally tougher to get into) as well as the school (Harvard PhD's are just as tough to get as Harvard MDs, while at average state universities the PhD programs are a lot easier to get into than the medical schools are).

You can't really compare between MD and PhD admissions at top schools because very different things are stressed - for the PhD they want to see successful self-directed research first and foremost, especially with publications, and stress your standard test scores and GPAs a lot less than MD schools.

So, for example, a 99.9th percentile standard test scorer and 3.95 GPA applicant from HYPSM with lots of shadowing, volunteering, and a couple semesters of lab experience, but no pubs, has a very good shot at a Washington University MD acceptance, and very little chance of a STEM PhD admission to MIT. Apples and oranges.

 

[zaben]

.

 

[altblue]

A friend with a 3.3 GPA (brought down when he was a chem major, admittedly) had minimal ECs got into an okay stats program at a large school....
Another friend is on track toward a good botany program with just a senior thesis and a 3.5.

I'm happy for them, but hell I'd be okay if I just got into a low-tier MD school and I have a 3.9...

n=2 but yeah

 

[efle]

Yeah, at a typical public school, the PhD programs are nowhere near the MD, and that's exactly why - they don't feed into high-employment rate, high-paying careers. There is a reason engineering/comp sci, law, and medicine have very different reputations than PhD work. OP was only asking about Top 20 MD vs Top 10 PhD and at that level everything is competitive, just in different ways

 

[pluto101]

For a top-10 PhD, it's all important, just like for a top-20 MD. However, for the PhD, standardized tests mean almost nothing, as do non-research ECs. Letters of Rec and research experience can compensate for a low ish (3.4-3.5) GPA. Direct research experience is best.

 

[efle]

For a top-10 PhD, it's all important, just like for a top-20 MD. However, for the PhD, standardized tests mean almost nothing, as do non-research ECs. Letters of Rec and research experience can compensate for a low ish (3.4-3.5) GPA. Direct research experience is best.

Haha "Everything's important, except for standardized tests, low GPA, your ECs for volunteering and fun, and half your rec letters."

So really, not much is important except having done a lot of good undergrad research and impressed your boss while doing so.

 

[pluto101]

Haha "Everything's important, except for standardized tests, low GPA, your ECs for volunteering and fun, and half your rec letters."

So really, not much is important except having done a lot of good undergrad research and impressed your boss while doing so.

Well, your commitment to helping others (ECs) and your ability to take standardized tests actually impact your ability to be a doctor. There's no standardized test to certify you as a PhD. As for GPA, you can be average at school, but if your boss says you have the mind of a scientist, that means much more. Research just requires different things from people than medicine does. And all your letters of rec matter. (Unless you're talking about letters from a doctor or whatever. I mean, for a PhD program, who cares if you are good with patients if you can't work a pipette or design an experiment?)

 

[efle]

I totally agree with you pluto101, I just thought it was funny how you phrased the requirements as everything - except all the MD things.

I wonder what made OP post this

 

[Microglia]

Yea the market for bio PhD's is pretty brutal at the moment. I hear engineering PhD's have great job opportunities, though. This is largely due to non-regulated admissions standards, similar to lower tier law schools having lower employment rates.

My understanding is that even the vast majority of MD/PhD's don't end up running a basic science lab. Wondering if I'll be able to cut it myself after watching some pretty brilliant up and comers get shut out of academia..it's scary stuff.

 

[efle]

Come to think of it, the MD/PhDs I know have ended up in clinical practice instead of research. I wonder if that was from much greater demand for the MD part of their degree

 

[BMC11]

How difficult is PhD program admissions (just Ph.D; not MD-PhD) compared to medical school? For an applicant who is qualified for matriculation to a top-20 medical school, would they be equally likely to gain admissions to a top-10 science (non-MD) PhD program?

I'm finishing a PhD at a top 5 school right now. PhD adcoms look for different things so the process is not comparable in my opinion (esp since I've now done both MD and PhD). Imagine all the time and energy applicants spend on their med school apps--years of preparation--that's how some people prepare for grad school. At competitive schools, positions are fully funded and thus very desirable. Basic science research is more important than anything else (even grades) in the admissions process. If you are a whiz in the lab, that can overshadow a C on the transcript. These people are looking for scientists, pure and simple. A lot of pre-meds have worked in a lab, but they haven't done anything close to what's needed for PhD admission. If you think you have the research background to be competitive, you may want to talk to a knowledgeable PI and have them look over your package. A lot of my classmates had logged years in the lab by the time of admission, published (basic science, not clinical), had excellent grades and solid GREs (above average but they don't have to be amazeballs). Plus, their applications were designed to explain scientific motivation and desire for a PhD (very very important). Volunteering and shadowing are virtually useless in this process.

Basically, if you want to go to a top school, you have to present yourself as a true scientist with a resume to back it up. Graduate students are a large financial investment and no one wants to flush half a million dollars down the drain if they can help it (which is what my school will have put into me when I hit graduation). They want people who can do the work, who will finish, and who won't bail with a terminal masters after two years.

 

[BMC11]

I totally agree with you pluto101, I just thought it was funny how you phrased the requirements as everything - except all the MD things.

I wonder what made OP post this

I just saw your post. Love it (everything except the MD reqs). also wondering what made OP post this.

 

[mariambaby3]

OP here, thanks for the responses everyone. The question was mainly just for personal curiosity. Not that I have any regrets about attending medical school, I just began wondering what else I would have done if I had not chosen medicine.