Men's Interview Clothing #2

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rHinO1 said:
Captainnerd, just stfu bro, and stick to the world of internet fashion advice. Oh, and cool story/anecdote :rolleyes:. The truth is the military demands a level of discipline and teamwork not seen in the civilian world. The people who serve in the military deserve our respect and appreciation, regardless of our country's current politics/foreign policy.

You can rationalize your beliefs all you want, but they are truly ignorant.

Edit: Also, your words diminish and insult generations of people who have done more for all of us than you could ever hope to do.
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Actually, he's completely right. People with intimate military experience understand what he's talking about. I don't know what your background is, but unless you've been in the military yourself, I doubt you know what you're talking about, in this case. I don't mean to be rude, but anyone who's been around grunts in the field has directly seen where the negative portions of the military stereotype (especially enlisted) comes from. Your only rebuttal to his post was propaganda regurgitation.
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FlowRate said:
Actually, he's completely right. People with intimate military experience understand what he's talking about. I don't know what your background is, but unless you've been in the military yourself, I doubt you know what you're talking about, in this case. I don't mean to be rude, but anyone who's been around grunts in the field has directly seen where the negative portions of the military stereotype (especially enlisted) comes from. Your only rebuttal to his post was propaganda regurgitation.
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You are putting far too much weight behind an anecdote. There was no substance to his post, besides a second hand story and his left-wing liberal attitude.
 
rHinO1 said:
You are putting far too much weight behind an anecdote. There was no substance to his post, besides a second hand story and his left-wing liberal attitude.
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I'm putting weight behind years of personal experience and over 100 years of combined close family experience. I've spent thousands of hours around both officers and enlisted people, at all levels of the food chain, in active, reserve, and retired life; at work and at play.
 
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Flowrate, I'm really not interested in arguing with you or anyone else about this. But, I would like to point out that we are talking about someone applying to graduate school. That person would be college educated, therefore, not a grunt.

I would also like to point out, that in the medical field, you will be working with a lot of military trained people (I know this from having worked in a hospital for 5 years). These people are hired b/c they are experienced and professional. I know several people who have been admitted to the best graduate schools in the country after having served in the military, including a friend who is at Harvard law after serving as a Navy Seal.
 
BushidoBrown said:
All signs point to 'yes'.
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really? most people say shoes= same color or darker..

I was just wondering what most people do for med school interviews.. If brown works, hey! I can finally use my brown shoes, lol.
 
vickpick said:
really? most people say shoes= same color or darker..

I was just wondering what most people do for med school interviews.. If brown works, hey! I can finally use my brown shoes, lol.
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Yes to the no-no.

If I wasn't clear: DO NOT WEAR BROWN SHOES WITH A BLACK SUIT.

Edit - What 'most' people do for medical school interviews (I'd say at least a good 70% of male interviewees I've met) wear black suits. If I were you, I'd leave the black suit at home and find something to go with those brown shoes instead.
 
BushidoBrown said:
Yes to the no-no.

If I wasn't clear: DO NOT WEAR BROWN SHOES WITH A BLACK SUIT.

Edit - What 'most' people do for medical school interviews (I'd say at least a good 70% of male interviewees I've met) wear black suits. If I were you, I'd leave the black suit at home and find something to go with those brown shoes instead.
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Grrr... just bought the black suit last week! return? I have another black suit.

and thanks for clarifying
 
vickpick said:
Grrr... just bought the black suit last week! return? I have another black suit.

and thanks for clarifying
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I don't know what would drive you to buy a second black suit, TBH. At the stage that you're at, income- and fashion-wise, a black suit is a black suit is a black suit (i.e. you only need one). If I were you, I'd return the suit and get a new one in a different color. Navy blue and charcoal are good choices for a 'second suit'.

As for the shoes, I have a pair of medium-light brown oxfords which I like to wear with a light grey suit, matching belt, and a light colored (pink or yellow) button-down shirt.
 
rHinO1 said:
Captainnerd, just stfu bro, and stick to the world of internet fashion advice. Oh, and cool story/anecdote :rolleyes:. The truth is the military demands a level of discipline and teamwork not seen in the civilian world. The people who serve in the military deserve our respect and appreciation, regardless of our country's current politics/foreign policy.

You can rationalize your beliefs all you want, but they are truly ignorant.

Edit: Also, your words diminish and insult generations of people who have done more for all of us than you could ever hope to do.
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The "truth" isn't what matters here. The relevance in captainnerd's post was in how admissions committee members may perceive the situation, which is what matters in deciding whether or not to wear the uniform.
 
Grom said:
The "truth" isn't what matters here. The relevance in captainnerd's post was in how admissions committee members may perceive the situation, which is what matters in deciding whether or not to wear the uniform.
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Sure, if you are going to wear the uniform you better be able to articulate why you are wearing it. The person being discussed probably went to West Point, so I would imagine he can explain why he chose West Point over other schools. West Point is very difficult to get into btw.

Also, not everyone shares Captainnerds views, and the military background probably helped him. In fact, we all know the screening process for medical school (except captainnerd b/c he's an optometry student), so we can conclude the military beckground probably helped him get the interview in the first place.
 
rHinO1 said:
Flowrate, I'm really not interested in arguing with you or anyone else about this. But, I would like to point out that we are talking about someone applying to graduate school. That person would be college educated, therefore, not a grunt.

I would also like to point out, that in the medical field, you will be working with a lot of military trained people (I know this from having worked in a hospital for 5 years). These people are hired b/c they are experienced and professional. I know several people who have been admitted to the best graduate schools in the country after having served in the military, including a friend who is at Harvard law after serving as a Navy Seal.
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My point is not to denigrate military service. I've thought about doing HPSP, myself. However, it's important to note that the military (stereotype) is not entirely positive, which directly relates to the question of whether or not to wear a uniform to the interview.
 
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FYI: This is my final post in this thread

FlowRate said:
Captainnerd, that was a very well reasoned response. In fact, I'd agree with all of it. My family has a very heavy military background and I would say the majority of what you just said is true... I would add one other thing; a potential health student has to be able to reconcile the fact that the military is expressly a violent organization with the idea that a physician (or other allied health person) is supposed to "do no harm" and what not.
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I'd just like to point out that this post does not compute. Do you honestly believe that any of the people that you have such intimate contact with could not express compassion? Do you believe that they could not uphold an oath (similar to the one they took upon entrance into the military - the whole defending the country against enemies, both foreign and domestic)? Sidebar - primum non nocere has more to do with weighing the risks of intervention vs. non-intervention than "do no harm," but that's for a later time

With all your contact, you must have run into individuals that are in the military that aren't grunts. How about enlisted individuals that aren't grunts? I can only assume that you're aware of the vast numbers of individuals that are never even issued a gun. I could give lots and lots of examples, but my point is that not every enlisted person is a grunt...especially if they make it to a med school interview.

captainnerd said:
The above is a rant on stereotyping. Here's my advice on military uniforms:

If you're an officer and have leadership duties in the military, you're intelligent and capable of discussing the pros and cons of military philosophy (volunteer military vs mandatory conscription, a military based economy, etc, etc), then go ahead and wear your uniform. Express an interest in taking medicine back onto the battlefield (even if it is a lie).

If you're a grunt who entered the military out of high school because it was the "logical route" —as is the majority of military enlistments— then wear a suit. It'll be a good sign you've transitioned to the civilian world quite nicely. List your military service, but wear a suit. And talk about your time in college and jobs. Discuss your interest in medicine/optometry/nursing.

Do not mention the time you got drunk/high with your buddies. Or the time you gutted a goat in the deserts of Mesopotamia because you were starving, regardless of your military status of PFC, captain, officer, etc.

Serve your country and do it quietly.
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I bolded the parts that are completely unnecessary. If you're an optometry student because you could couldn't get accepted into medical school - as is a majority of optometry students. See? Not only do I not believe that, but it's completely unnecessary. You don't know why people join just as much as nobody knows why you selected optometry.

Besides the fact that you come off as entitled and elitist, I pretty much agree with the advice. Even if I was AD I would not have worn my uniform to the interview. Personal choice.

Now to change the subject:

How do you feel about tie bars? Can they only be worn during formal occasions (similar to french cuffs)? Can you wear one without a jacket?
 
OSU2015 said:
I'd just like to point out that this post does not compute. Do you honestly believe that any of the people that you have such intimate contact with could not express compassion? Do you believe that they could not uphold an oath (similar to the one they took upon entrance into the military - the whole defending the country against enemies, both foreign and domestic)? Sidebar - primum non nocere has more to do with weighing the risks of intervention vs. non-intervention than "do no harm," but that's for a later time

With all your contact, you must have run into individuals that are in the military that aren't grunts. How about enlisted individuals that aren't grunts? I can only assume that you're aware of the vast numbers of individuals that are never even issued a gun. I could give lots and lots of examples, but my point is that not every enlisted person is a grunt...especially if they make it to a med school interview.
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You seriously misunderstood my posts and didn't read the rest of the thread. Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was that there are negative associations with military service, and also that some of those negative associations are true.
 
A few years ago an applicant who was active duty military PM'ed me & asked if he should wear his uniform to an interview. I said "yes". He did and managed to be admitted to Harvard, Hopkins, Pitt, UCSD (OOS), and at least 4 others (every school he where he interviewed).
 
OSU2015 said:
Now to change the subject:

How do you feel about tie bars? Can they only be worn during formal occasions (similar to french cuffs)? Can you wear one without a jacket?
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I don't consider a tie bar nor french cuffs to be formal at ALL. I worked at Banana Republic for three years, and so most of the shirts I have are french cuffed, and I've always worn them along with a tie bar to my interviews.

Formality is really determined by what your tie bar and cufflinks are made of, in my opinion. I usually wear a simple sterling silver tie bar and square cufflinks that are half sterling silver and half mother of pearl; they're understated, but I think it adds a touch of style to a bunch of interviewees in black suits. I've even had people (girls and interviewers) comment on how nice they looked, which I take as good sign ;)
 
OSU2015 said:


I bolded the parts that are completely unnecessary. If you're an optometry student because you could couldn't get accepted into medical school - as is a majority of optometry students. See? Not only do I not believe that, but it's completely unnecessary. You don't know why people join just as much as nobody knows why you selected optometry.

Besides the fact that you come off as entitled and elitist, I pretty much agree with the advice. Even if I was AD I would not have worn my uniform to the interview. Personal choice.

Now to change the subject:

How do you feel about tie bars? Can they only be worn during formal occasions (similar to french cuffs)? Can you wear one without a jacket?
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This. The comment that "most people in the military go in out of HS because it is the only logical thing to do" is simply not accurate. In fact, the irony is that the opposite is true. Nearly 70% of the military actually consists of the top 60% of income earners...despite popular depictions in the media, our military is the choosy one. Don't believe the media narrative that our military consists mostly of the poor/minorities who go in at age 18 after HS because it "is only logical" to them.
 
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Anyone here wear a tie without the jacket. I heard that was "in" now for interviews? Maybe it could help or hurt depending on the school. Also if the weather is warm at the time it could be more understandable.
 
Caesar said:
The conversation about Military uniforms can move on now.

This is not the place to debate the positive and negative stereotypes of military service.
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Disagree (it directly pertains to interview clothing.) Although the discussion is already over, anyway...


BTW I don't remember which posts exactly were asking about cuff links and tie bars.

Generally, both are sartorially accepted, but neither are necessarily recommended for interviews. Neither are pocket squares. But I wore a pocket square. If you have the foundations of your suiting down, you're free to make a few more risks with your interview clothing. If you're not sure whether brown shoes go with a black suit, I wouldn't recommend any of the items I just listed.

PS I think part of the confusion with the brown-shoes-black-suit thing is due to that stupid brown riding boots and black tights combination that's popular with hipsterish women right now.
 
Dice456 said:
Anyone here wear a tie without the jacket. I heard that was "in" now for interviews? Maybe it could help or hurt depending on the school. Also if the weather is warm at the time it could be more understandable.
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Wearing a tie with no jacket reminds me of a middle school dance ;)
 
BushidoBrown said:
What 'most' people do for medical school interviews (I'd say at least a good 70% of male interviewees I've met) wear black suits. If I were you, I'd leave the black suit at home and find something to go with those brown shoes instead.
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Is a gray suit okay for interviews? What color shoes should you wear with that? Black?
 
hiyaman said:
Is a gray suit okay for interviews? What color shoes should you wear with that? Black?
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BushidoBrown said:
As for the shoes, I have a pair of medium-light brown oxfords which I like to wear with a light grey suit, matching belt, and a light colored (pink or yellow) button-down shirt.
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What I quoted is a little less conservative, but I managed to pull it off well. However, black shoes are perfectly acceptable for a grey suit, but I would stick to darker shades for your shirt and tie if you want to go that way.
 
FlowRate said:
*snip*
PS I think part of the confusion with the brown-shoes-black-suit thing is due to that stupid brown riding boots and black tights combination that's popular with hipsterish women right now.
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glad somebody said it
 
gravitywave said:
glad somebody said it
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:)

With jeans it looks alright, since brown and blue go great. I think it's a shame that so many people (I'm not going to confine it to women, we see plenty of similar styles on the men's side of the pond) develop their fashion sense based off of ugly fads, and not a reasonable foundation in color and pattern combination.
WhizoMD said:
What Knot is this?

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It's a wide four-in-hand, most likely.
 
^ my half windsors look a bit like the one on the right. Not so much like the one on the left.
 
I wore a short sleeve dress shirt and tie to an interview for pharmacy school. Believe it or not I was 1 of two people out of twenty that they accepted in that group. They either felt sorry for me or I just really stood out...;). Either way when it comes down to it, this is not a fashion show and no one will remember what you wore. I would say if anything try to fit in but don't blend in.
 
sirmalcs said:
I wore a short sleeve dress shirt and tie...
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Any reason you didn't wear a long-sleeve shirt?

dwight_schrute.jpg
 
sirmalcs said:
I wore a short sleeve dress shirt and tie to an interview for pharmacy school. Believe it or not I was 1 of two people out of twenty that they accepted in that group. They either felt sorry for me or I just really stood out...;). Either way when it comes down to it, this is not a fashion show and no one will remember what you wore. I would say if anything try to fit in but don't blend in.
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Yeah, it is not a fashion show and we are not talking about fashion. I think the issues here are about men's style. Their are specific ways your jacket, shirt and trousers should fit (you can get started here.)

Most of you might say no one will notice if you are abiding by these "rules" and you would probably be correct. However, if your clothes fit properly then you will surely know. I believe that is what matters most.
 
FearAndInsomnia said:
Yeah, it is not a fashion show and we are not talking about fashion. I think the issues here are about men's style. Their are specific ways your jacket, shirt and trousers should fit (you can get started here.)

Most of you might say no one will notice if you are abiding by these "rules" and you would probably be correct. However, if your clothes fit properly then you will surely know. I believe that is what matters most.
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Moreover, many professionals know how to dress professionally. My point being that business and professional dress standards are essentially the uniform of this profession and others like or related to it. I would certainly have a negative first impression of a candidate who showed up looking clueless or immature. That doesn't mean I think med schools are in the business of rejecting people because they dress funny, but it's always good to put your best foot forward; that's the whole point of this thread, right?
 
Agh the short sleeve shirt and tie (not to be confused with the stereotypical Rainn Wilson character) but a profound statement of security of ones self being. Yes some may call it the fashion statement of the century, some may call it pure efficiency for dressing up in hot whether. I call it the tight budget of a poor college undergrad that didn't have daddy's money to buy a nice suit. Naw, for real though it was just all i had in my dorm on a short notice interview call. And I don't dispute that looking your best at all times is the best way to progress in this world. I advocate that, I just don't represent it. So continue with the banter as it is helpful for people like me who lack in common (fashion) sense. How's that for the devil's advocate non biased stance?
 
Hey guys, im not used to these dress shoes, how much room do you guys have in your dress shoes? can you fit a finger between the heel of your foot and the heel of your shoes? These definately take some getting used to.
 
Good dress shoes should fit almost as well as your regular shoes. Buy a smaller size... Because most dress shoes are leather, it's hard to compensate for fitting problems with the laces; instead, dress shoes usually come in a range of lengths and widths, as opposed to the single (sometimes with wide options) standard measurements used by most US sneaker makers.
 
thanks, that really helps. also, should collared shirts feel kinda tight or should you not really notice them. are they kinda bothersome at first?
 
FlowRate said:
Actually, he's completely right. People with intimate military experience understand what he's talking about. I don't know what your background is, but unless you've been in the military yourself, I doubt you know what you're talking about, in this case. I don't mean to be rude, but anyone who's been around grunts in the field has directly seen where the negative portions of the military stereotype (especially enlisted) comes from. Your only rebuttal to his post was propaganda regurgitation.
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I think it is absolutely unfortunate that the military has such a background. In so many European states where military service is mandatory, the military is often regarded with much respect.

Even the current Queen of England served as a medivac nurse during WW2.

I think Eisenhower was right. Our military industrial complex requires that the US go to war to sustain a portion of our economy whose interests outpower our own democracy.

Unfortunately, it means the poor end up going to war disproportionately.

It also means we do not respect their sacrifices as much as we should.

In many ways, we perpetuate the stereotypes upon ourselves. It is a reflection, pretty or not, of our own society's values.

I know countless engineers. After they graduated, they all went to work for military contractors. Maybe that's why our cars suck? We talk about subsidized housing, subsidized farms, subsidized health care.

But we ignore our subsidized weapons contractors.

As for the 70% of the military consisting of the top 60% of wage earners: okay.

I didn't feel the need to say this. But my dad fought against the Americans in the Vietnam War. And his dad fought against the French. My brother served in the Navy after high school for the GI Bill money but never went to college afterwards because he already had a wife and kids after he left the military. So many people enlist for the GI Bill but disqualify themselves while in the military that many Congressmen are annoyed by the marketing of the GI Bill (just like PTSD disqualifies so many for health benefits before the legislative changes). It is unfortunate.

"Volunteer military" is one of the best euphemisms out there. Almost as good as "friendly fire." It is marketing.

Hopefully, you guys will look past the marketing.

I, personally, would never join the military. I am too entitled and elite! Wait, am I already in the military?

I wonder where "Captain"Nerd came from.

You proles are starting to get boring. Seriously? Tie bars? What next? Collar pins?

Korean bespoke. Probably $600 US for two pieces. Probably $800 for three pieces. Rather affordable for you plebeians. What I'm more interested in is the engine turning on the cement blocks. Very nice stuff.
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A red tie I can get behind:
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Generally speaking, for interviews you want a charcoal gray or navy blue suit. It isn't a good idea to stand out in the way you dress.
 
The style is appropriate (the cut and buttons), but the colour is problematic. I would stray away from white...I'd stick to navy/charcoal (avoid black).
 
Asyouwereatrio said:
The style is appropriate (the cut and buttons), but the colour is problematic. I would stray away from white...I'd stick to navy/charcoal (avoid black).
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Before the ball gets rolling on this piece of advice, I would like to point out that I wore a black suit to all my interviews and got accepted at several schools. So if you find a black suit for a good deal, go for it.
 
moxche said:
Before the ball gets rolling on this piece of advice, I would like to point out that I wore a black suit to all my interviews and got accepted at several schools. So if you find a black suit for a good deal, go for it.
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I don't think that wearing a black suit is wrong, per se, just that wearing a gray or blue suit is considered more appropriate for an interview.

OP you can take that or leave it as you feel. The most important part is that you look and feel comfortable in it. Make sure it is tailored well! Nothing looks worse than a suit that is the wrong size.
 
I can't believe you guys fall for this every time. It's clearly a person trying to sell whatever is contained within that link...

But I would go for a solid color suit :p
 
Why not black? I have a navy suit too, but I don't know why black is off limits
 
Black used to be considered formal/severe and too standoffish for an interview.

It's sort of like skirt suit vs pant suit for women, while some people still consider a skirt suit a safer bet in a conservative environment, it really is a matter of personal preference and is pretty far down on the list of things to nit-pick about.

Loafers vs lace-ups is another "hotly" contested interview fashion item.
 
skirt suit all the way, man one girl I interviewed with was a dancer, had AMAZING legs.... probably received an acceptance everywhere she interviewed, hell if I was the interviewer 10 stars across the board for amazing calves. :love:
kami333 said:
Black used to be considered formal/severe and too standoffish for an interview.

It's sort of like skirt suit vs pant suit for women, while some people still consider a skirt suit a safer bet in a conservative environment, it really is a matter of personal preference and is pretty far down on the list of things to nit-pick about.

Loafers vs lace-ups is another "hotly" contested interview fashion item.
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