Mid Term Elections- Lessons Learned

[jwk]

Dems shouldn’t be celebrating and running victory laps in my opinion. Still need to overturn Trump’s legal system he installed, fix the redistricting that helped republicans gain seats and find a stronger candidate then Biden.

Where the hell is Kamala, Bernie and Warren? Is Beto and Abrams done?

Beto and Abrams combined sucked $180 million out of Democrat donors for their failed elections. They're toast. My guess is Abrams ends up on The View where she'll fit right in.

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[pgg]

Where the hell is Kamala,

Incompetent. Always has been, since her days as CA AG. Listening to her speak is physically painful, almost on par with Trump, but for different reasons. Democrats need to find a graceful way for her to exit politics when this Biden/Harris term is up.

Bernie and Warren?

Too old. Too far left to win.

Is Beto and Abrams done?

Neither are winning in their home states, and nationwide they're even less electable.

Beto seems like a decent fellow in the aggregate but his 2A positions are a dealbreaker for me. Buttigieg is another decent person but I don't see being transportation secretary as anything more than a dead end consolation prize.


But a year is a long time. Come 2024 and the next campaign cycle, I bet the list of people who are actually viable has little resemblence to what we see now. Especially on the GOP side. DeSantis is the electable mini-Trump darling of the right today, but there's no telling how Trump will tear him down, or if Trump will be embroiled in criminal cases, or who'll emerge from the chaos.

Nobody really believes Biden or Harris will run so that field is wide open. Newsome? I'm skeptical.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I stand corrected.

All the more reason she shouldn't have been allowed to compete against women.

She lost a fair number of races when she started swimming against women.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Who cares. Beto is the only decent one out of that lot and he just lost.

Beto lost as soon as he said he was coming for everyone's guns. That was just beyond stupid politically. On par with Eddard Stark giving Cersei Lannister a chance to run away.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I can see this guy having a strong chance to emerge if people can look past Trump and the Desantis types:

Who is clamoring for Larry Hogan to run for president? - Washington Examiner

For whatever reason, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan thinks that the 2022 midterm results have Republicans clamoring for him to run for president in 2024.Hogan told CBS that the midterm results have pushed him closer to running for president. That seems unlikely, given that he has been floating...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[pgg]

She lost a fair number of races when she started swimming against women.

Her success or failure isn't actually that relevant. Every woman who finished behind her, whether they finished #2 behind her #1, or #9 behind her #6 (thus getting bumped out of the final 8 at a meet), was wronged.

Her wins just underscore the awfulness of it all, but even her "losses" unfairly hurt many people. The fact that eventually the testosterone effects began to subside, or that some exceptional female athletes were able to beat her, doesn't make any of it the least bit OK.

 

[GravelRider]

I don't even know how you'd measure it. Are we counting ads? What if an ad runs 1000 times? Is that 1000 mentions? Who would even have the interest, much less the endurance, to try to keep score?



This here is precisely the problem.

You're not interested in hearing why the left has a problem - but you sure are interested in talking about how stupid the right-wing mouthbreathers are about it. You're just knee-jerk assuming that all criticism from the right is just ... how did you put it? Oh that's right, "people who probably have Fox News on in the kitchen while they eat dinner", yeah, that was it.

Lia Thomas is the male-to-female transgender swimmer who competed at the University of Pennsylvania. After passing through male puberty, he competed without much success as a male swimmer of no special talent or ability at the collegiate level. After transitioning, she competed against women and won the Division I championship in one of her events, and finished near the top of several others. By winning and/or placing high in the standings, she bumped women off the podium. Women who'd trained and competed their entire lives to reach the peak of their chosen sport, only to lose to Lia Thomas.

Now, most of us don't care how she chooses to live, or what her pronouns are. But what she did, by denying women (who hadn't had a lifetime of testosterone shaping their bones and muscles) a fair field of competition, was awful. To me, it's forgivable - I won't pretend to understand her state of mind or the experiences that led her to make the ultimately selfish decision to compete as a woman.

But what isn't forgivable, and is even more awful, is how the sanctimonious woke have tried to normalize her participation in women's competition, and how the University of Pennsylvania thought her decision was actually commendable to the point that they nominated her for NCAA Woman Of The Year.

This is just one example of why there's such a backlash against the "woke" movement.

I'd go on with other examples, or bring up other topics (e.g. affirmative action) but I'm going to guess you're not interested in that either.

No. The right wingers are making a bigger deal out of something that is not a big deal. Try as you might to make it a big deal, it’s not. It really isn’t. Who gives a flying f@$ck at what the NCAA does. My caring about the NCAA goes only as far as caring that they continue to make March Madness an enjoyable event to watch and that’s it.

There you go using the word again. Is it a noun or a verb? I can’t figure it out. Woke made the NCAA allow a transgender compete as a woman? Should that have been wokeness or is woke also a thing? I thought woke was an adjective or maybe a verb. Is it code for saying “transgender” “lgbtq” “black?” Would have “But what isn't forgivable, and is even more awful, is how the sanctimonious transgender rights activists have tried to normalize her participation in women's competition…” been a better sentence?

As you said, it’s all marketing. What Nike, the NCAA, and any other organization does is marketing. It’s not politics, it’s not even law. It’s marketing and I don’t care.

My point is that using the word “woke” is actually a way to avoid discussion and debate about issues. It’s a garbage pail term used to lump groups of people together. It’s current use is lazy and just wrong. From what I can tell, woke can refer to activists for transgender, gay, black, the environment, anti-corporate economics, drug legalization. Anything else?

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[deleted1116990]

My point is that using the word “woke” is actually a way to avoid discussion and debate about issues. It’s a garbage pail term used to lump groups of people together. It’s current use is lazy and just wrong. From what I can tell, woke can refer to activists for transgender, gay, black, the environment, anti-corporate economics, drug legalization. Anything else?

Woke refers to the intersectionality hierarchy. At its core, it's about segmenting people into groups based certain personal characteristics and assigning them a victim status based on those characteristics, which is used to determine how resources should be preferentially allocated (thereby enriching and empowering those in charge of allocating those resources). It's not about drugs or the environment or whatever. It is simply Marxism. Every single time this has happened in history, it has resulted in misery for the masses. Ask anybody who grew up in Eastern Europe last century (or South America), and they will tell you, ah yes I have seen this kind of things before.

If you want to play the game "if you notice that something is happening and you label it xyz, then you are a bad guy for noticing and must listen to Alex Jones because nothing called xyz is really happening or xyz means something other than what you think it means, but coincidentally there is this thing happening called DEI or whatever and that is totally different from the word you are using to describe it" then sure, play that game. It's not a particularly clever trick, though.

 

[deleted1147063]

Her success or failure isn't actually that relevant. Every woman who finished behind her, whether they finished #2 behind her #1, or #9 behind her #6 (thus getting bumped out of the final 8 at a meet), was wronged.

Her wins just underscore the awfulness of it all, but even her "losses" unfairly hurt many people. The fact that eventually the testosterone effects began to subside, or that some exceptional female athletes were able to beat her, doesn't make any of it the least bit OK.

The advantages one gets by going through male puberty never "subside". The brain and body develop differently, the musculoskeletal advantages are for life (because the female body is designed for pregnancy, not survival of the fittest). Just look at the size differences, for Pete's sake. Just look at the male pelvis vs the female pelvis, and the whole mechanics of that, so important in sports, even if one ignores the muscle mass.

When a #200 ATP-ranked professional male tennis player beats the heck out of Serena and Venus Williams respectively in friendly sets, we should not have this discussion among educated people. When we have separate female sports for a reason, and that's because males are much stronger. Just because males don't beat their wives anymore, don't think it's because we are now equally strong.

It's by far not as simple as testosterone vs estrogen. Castrating a male with prostate cancer and giving him estrogen do not make him a biological woman.

Anybody who's gone through male puberty is not a biological female. End of story/science. There is nothing to debate, except among ideologues. The same way a black male or a gay male are as much a biological male as a white heterosexual one, a surgically- and hormonally-altered male with gender dysphoria is also still a biological male. The genetic code, the skeleton, and most of the body remain "male".

Let's not confuse politeness with science, truth, and fairness. Or, as our Marxist friends like to call it, EQUITY. How is this equitable to 99% of women?

 

[BLADEMDA]

My Socialist friends Vector2 and Southpaw will never vote for a true conservative like Ron Desantis. A person who stands up for traditional, conservative values of the USA: lower taxes, less government, individual rights, energy independence, and of course anti-wokeness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ron-desantis-has-moved-florida-from-purple-to-red/2022/11/09/f490022a-5ff5-11ed-a131-e900e4a6336b_story.html

"Finally, and perhaps most consequential for 2024, Florida has moved from purple to red. The realignment of Miami-Dade County, in particular, has been seismic. Whoever the Democrats nominate for president in two years will have to think hard before putting resources into contesting the state."

It’s official: Florida is a red state

The former swing state is now a lost cause for Democrats.

www.vox.com

 

[BLADEMDA]

Let me summarize the midterms:

Embrace Donald Trump and his MAGA craziness results in losing elections.

Embrace Candidates who reject the craziness and election deniers results in winning elections.

Yes, it is that simple because the Biden administration's policies are just that bad.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

My Socialist friends Vector2 and Southpaw will never vote for a true conservative like Ron Desantis. A person who stands up for traditional, conservative values of the USA: lower taxes, less government, individual rights, energy independence, and of course anti-wokeness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ron-desantis-has-moved-florida-from-purple-to-red/2022/11/09/f490022a-5ff5-11ed-a131-e900e4a6336b_story.html

"Finally, and perhaps most consequential for 2024, Florida has moved from purple to red. The realignment of Miami-Dade County, in particular, has been seismic. Whoever the Democrats nominate for president in two years will have to think hard before putting resources into contesting the state."

It’s official: Florida is a red state

The former swing state is now a lost cause for Democrats.

www.vox.com

I would say FL leans red but there was some help:

Florida redistricting 2022: Congressional maps by district

States are redrawing their 2022 congressional maps. Here's how many House districts the state will have following the 2020 census, and how voting power will shift.

www.cnn.com

 

[Arch Guillotti]

My Socialist friends Vector2 and Southpaw will never vote for a true conservative like Ron Desantis. A person who stands up for traditional, conservative values of the USA: lower taxes, less government, individual rights, energy independence, and of course anti-wokeness.

Like the right to choose?

And the right to shove christian nationalism down your throat?

He makes me sick, just like the rest of the right-wing religious zealots.

 

[pgg]

No. The right wingers are making a bigger deal out of something that is not a big deal.

The bigness of the dealio is very much in the eye of the beholder. And sometimes small deals are merely visible symptoms of a deeper problem.

Transgender athletes aren't a "big deal" in the grand scheme of western civilization, and I'm not a viewer of any NCAA sports (much less swimming), but the people who come down on the side of commending and glorifying the Lia Thomases of the world have a particular way of framing issues and viewing problems. And it's completely demented. I wouldn't trust their judgment in a anything else.

My point is that using the word “woke” is actually a way to avoid discussion and debate about issues. It’s a garbage pail term used to lump groups of people together. It’s current use is lazy and just wrong. From what I can tell, woke can refer to activists for transgender, gay, black, the environment, anti-corporate economics, drug legalization. Anything else?

This is a fair point, though I'd argue that it's about as useful (and limited) as any generalization or label. You could say the same about Marxist, leftist, liberal, progressive, communist... or even Democrat. None of those labels perfectly describe any person (except maybe Karl Marx himself ) or ideology but they still have utility in grouping mostly-like-minded people together for the purpose of discussion.

I also think it's funny that your followup to "No, wait, don’t tell me I already lost interest" is a comment about how using the term woke is a debate avoidance tactic.

 

[deleted1147063]

I would say FL leans red but there was some help:

Florida redistricting 2022: Congressional maps by district

States are redrawing their 2022 congressional maps. Here's how many House districts the state will have following the 2020 census, and how voting power will shift.

www.cnn.com

There is always "help" like that, in the blue states, too.

Gerrymandering is a national American sport. It could be easily fixed by a well-written computer program, so the only reason for it to exist is our corrupt political class.

 

[ucladoc2b]

There is always "help" like that, in the blue states, too.

Gerrymandering is a national American sport.

Except in NY where the dems blew it.

 

[Southpaw]

My Socialist friends Vector2 and Southpaw will never vote for a true conservative like Ron Desantis. A person who stands up for traditional, conservative values of the USA: lower taxes, less government, individual rights, energy independence, and of course anti-wokeness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ron-desantis-has-moved-florida-from-purple-to-red/2022/11/09/f490022a-5ff5-11ed-a131-e900e4a6336b_story.html

"Finally, and perhaps most consequential for 2024, Florida has moved from purple to red. The realignment of Miami-Dade County, in particular, has been seismic. Whoever the Democrats nominate for president in two years will have to think hard before putting resources into contesting the state."

It’s official: Florida is a red state

The former swing state is now a lost cause for Democrats.

www.vox.com

Do you read your own posts? Do you even care about your words? Individual rights? Less government? Lower taxes? Energy independence?

I don’t think your party is what you think it is. In fact I’m sure of it. I think you’re a single ticket voter who hasn’t given much thought to what a Republican is, or isn’t, since Reagan.

Im unaffiliated, but I’ll wear your labels with a badge of honor.

 

[ucladoc2b]

My Socialist friends Vector2 and Southpaw will never vote for a true conservative like Ron Desantis. A person who stands up for traditional, conservative values of the USA: lower taxes, less government, individual rights, energy independence, and of course anti-wokeness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ron-desantis-has-moved-florida-from-purple-to-red/2022/11/09/f490022a-5ff5-11ed-a131-e900e4a6336b_story.html

"Finally, and perhaps most consequential for 2024, Florida has moved from purple to red. The realignment of Miami-Dade County, in particular, has been seismic. Whoever the Democrats nominate for president in two years will have to think hard before putting resources into contesting the state."

It’s official: Florida is a red state

The former swing state is now a lost cause for Democrats.

www.vox.com

Florida is not as red as it is made out to be. The dems did not show up for some reason like they did in the rest of the country. 2018 to 2022 turnout in the urban counties was down (in some places down 15-20% in the context of significant population growth). 2024 will tell us more.

 

[nimbus]

We had a local megachurch that tried to get candidates on local school boards. Ironically the church is called Awaken Church.

 

[BLADEMDA]

In 2018, Desantis won his election against Gillum by 30,000 votes. It was a very slim margin of victory:

Florida Governor Election Results 2018: Live Midterm Map by County & Analysis

Get real-time 2018 Florida Governor election results & live maps by county. POLITICO's coverage of the 2018 midterm races for Senate, House, Governors & Key Ballot Measures.

www.politico.com

In 2022, Desantis CRUSHED Crist to win by a landslide. So yes, Desantis is what the GOP stands for in 2022 and he should be the nominee in 2024.

Florida Governor Election Results 2022: Live Map | Midterm Races by County

Live 2022 Florida election results and maps by county and district. POLITICO's coverage of 2022 races for Senate, House, Governors and Key Ballot Measures.

www.politico.com

 

[BLADEMDA]

Desantis only lost in 5 counties out of the entire state (67 counties). 3 of those 5 counties were the state's flagship universities where WOKENESS goes to thrive: UF and FSU.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Blade (or any conservative/republicans who favor DeSantis), do you think that Christian Nationalism is a threat to our democracy and do you think that DeSantis will do anything to reduce it? Honestly, the way I see, it doesn't matter how good the conservative policies are or what they might do, as long as they are aligned with Christian Nationalism, we are on a major downward slope and likely screwed as a country.

 

[deleted1116990]

Blade (or any conservative/republicans who favor DeSantis), do you think that Christian Nationalism is a threat to our democracy and do you think that DeSantis will do anything to reduce it? Honestly, the way I see, it doesn't matter how good the conservative policies are or what they might do, as long as they are aligned with Christian Nationalism, we are on a major downward slope and likely screwed as a country.

I'm really struggling to understand, as someone who grew up in the Bible belt and lived through the prayer in public school debates that we have moved way past a long time ago, how people believe this boogey-man of Christian nationalism. Do you think they are going to come back and round up all the gays or something? Christianity has been steadily taken out of the mainstream with consistent progress over the past what 4-5 decades at this point? Christians are one of the most vilified groups in the entire country. They are the only religion that can be openly mocked without reprisal, and are so in the mainstream. Practicing Christians are well in the minority with decreasing numbers every year. The sexual revolution declared victory over Jerry Falwell a long time ago and has been relentlessly pounding on his grave sense. Do people really have this short of a memory that they don't remember what it was like in the 90s? Let alone before that when TV shows couldn't even broadcast a husband and wife sleeping together in the same bed.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm really struggling to understand, as someone who grew up in the Bible belt and lived through the prayer in public school debates that we have moved way past a long time ago, how people believe this boogey-man of Christian nationalism. Do you think they are going to come back and round up all the gays or something? Christianity has been steadily taken out of the mainstream with consistent progress over the past what 4-5 decades at this point? Christians are one of the most vilified groups in the entire country. They are the only religion that can be openly mocked without reprisal, and are so in the mainstream. Practicing Christians are well in the minority with decreasing numbers every year. The sexual revolution declared victory over Jerry Falwell a long time ago and has been relentlessly pounding on his grave sense. Do people really have this short of a memory that they don't remember what it was like in the 90s? Let alone before that when TV shows couldn't even broadcast a husband and wife sleeping together in the same bed.

The left needs to make up "extremism" as the label for the entire GOP. We know "wokeness" has become the theme/center of the new Democrat party. The old Blue Dog Clinton Democrats are long gone as Hilary was the last of them. Even Biden has turned hard left during his term. So, how does a socialist, hard left party counter a traditional conservative like Desantis? You make him out to be an extreme ultra national Christian or a MAGA loving election denier.
But, the people/voters of Florida know that Desantis isn't any of those things; he is your traditional, conservative candidate like Jeb or George Bush and not like Donald Trump.

Both Desantis and Kemp cruised to victory because they represent traditional GOP values. I truly think most of those on SDN have no idea what those are because of the brainwashing by the hard left.

 

[deleted1116990]

The left needs to make up "extremism" as the label for the entire GOP. We know "wokeness" has become the theme/center of the new Democrat party. The old Blue Dog Clinton Democrats are long gone as Hilary was the last of them. Even Biden has turned hard left during his term. So, how does a socialist, hard left party counter a traditional conservative like Desantis? You make him out to be an extreme ultra national Christian or a MAGA loving election denier.
But, the people/voters of Florida know that Desantis isn't any of those things; he is your traditional, conservative candidate like Jeb or George Bush and not like Donald Trump.

Both Desantis and Kemp cruised to victory because they represent traditional GOP values. I truly think most of those on SDN have no idea what those are because of the brainwashing by the hard left.

My point is that the bible thumpers will never garner enough support to gain a national majority or anywhere close to it. It's just not going to happen. Why are the Californians freaking out about this if a couple ultrarural counties in Nebraska elect some local evangelicals. That's local politics. The progressives have made so much progress that if you have a presidential candidate that comes along and wants to outlaw all abortion federally, outlaw gay marriage and enact sodomy laws, push for prayer in public schools, criminalize marijuana possession, and just allover legislate morality the way it used to be, that person may not even get the majority of the republican vote nationally at this point. That candidate would be DOA, and that candidate is certainly not DeSantis.

When people talk about fear of Christian nationalism I think two things are going on:
- Using language to intentionally and disingenuously invoke the holocaust with "nationalism" (nazis) the same way that "denial" is used to invoke similar imagery (holocaust denial) to give their platform (climate, covid/science, whatever) more weight and implicit righteousness.
- Ignorance (whether intentional or otherwise) of traditional conservative Christian policy positions are. Trump and DeSantis are about as far from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as Biden when it comes to the evangenlical agenda. But again, I grew up around these people, and these ultra-liberal Californians freaking out about it almost certainly did not and hence you end up with this absurd notion that somebody like DeSantis is a "Christian nationalist"

 

[Southpaw]

The left needs to make up "extremism" as the label for the entire GOP. We know "wokeness" has become the theme/center of the new Democrat party. The old Blue Dog Clinton Democrats are long gone as Hilary was the last of them. Even Biden has turned hard left during his term. So, how does a socialist, hard left party counter a traditional conservative like Desantis? You make him out to be an extreme ultra national Christian or a MAGA loving election denier.
But, the people/voters of Florida know that Desantis isn't any of those things; he is your traditional, conservative candidate like Jeb or George Bush and not like Donald Trump.

Both Desantis and Kemp cruised to victory because they represent traditional GOP values. I truly think most of those on SDN have no idea what those are because of the brainwashing by the hard left.

It is interesting that you type such nonsense in a thread where you can’t get the word ‘WOKE’ out fast enough and repeatedly in everything you write. You can’t define it. You can’t give decent examples of it, and yet every problem under the sun in your world is because of wokeness. I still have no clue what it means. It certainly isn’t relevant to my life. The one example discussed in this thread was a transgender swimmer and how the NCAA treated her, which is completely outside the boundaries of politics.

 

[ucladoc2b]

My point is that the bible thumpers will never garner enough support to gain a national majority or anywhere close to it. It's just not going to happen. Why are the Californians freaking out about this if a couple ultrarural counties in Nebraska elect some local evangelicals. That's local politics. The progressives have made so much progress that if you have a presidential candidate that comes along and wants to outlaw all abortion federally, outlaw gay marriage and enact sodomy laws, push for prayer in public schools, criminalize marijuana possession, and just allover legislate morality the way it used to be, that person may not even get the majority of the republican vote nationally at this point. That candidate would be DOA, and that candidate is certainly not DeSantis.

When people talk about fear of Christian nationalism I think two things are going on:
- Using language to intentionally and disingenuously invoke the holocaust with "nationalism" (nazis) the same way that "denial" is used to invoke similar imagery (holocaust denial) to give their platform (climate, covid/science, whatever) more weight and implicit righteousness.
- Ignorance (whether intentional or otherwise) of traditional conservative Christian policy positions are. Trump and DeSantis are about as far from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as Biden when it comes to the evangenlical agenda. But again, I grew up around these people, and these ultra-liberal Californians freaking out about it almost certainly did not and hence you end up with this absurd notion that somebody like DeSantis is a "Christian nationalist"

There’s a substantial faction within the GOP with that viewpoint . It’s not really an extreme position within that party.

 

[nimbus]

The left needs to make up "extremism" as the label for the entire GOP. We know "wokeness" has become the theme/center of the new Democrat party. The old Blue Dog Clinton Democrats are long gone as Hilary was the last of them. Even Biden has turned hard left during his term. So, how does a socialist, hard left party counter a traditional conservative like Desantis? You make him out to be an extreme ultra national Christian or a MAGA loving election denier.
But, the people/voters of Florida know that Desantis isn't any of those things; he is your traditional, conservative candidate like Jeb or George Bush and not like Donald Trump.

Both Desantis and Kemp cruised to victory because they represent traditional GOP values. I truly think most of those on SDN have no idea what those are because of the brainwashing by the hard left.

The Republican base who control the primaries refer to the Bushs, Cheneys, and Romney as RINOs. The only reason Romney is still around is because he’s a Mormon from Utah.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Let me list what the traditional, conservative voter of 2022 is actually supporting these days. Please understand even though this what the voters want politicians don't always give a crap about the actual issues. There is definitely corruption. selfishness, greed, etc within both political parties.

1. Secure Borders- Biden has allowed in 3-4 million illegal immigrants during his short 2 years. This is more than any President in my lifetime. A country can't exist without secure borders.

2. Crime- Cashless Bail is absurd. GOP voters want all criminals punished and serving time in jail (especially violent crime). We support the Police and want funding increased. The war on drugs represents failed policy so leniency/tolerance is the general theme.

3. Abortion- A state's right issue and the average GOP voter in most states, not all, wants exceptions for Rape and Incest. Some, like me, want to allow abortion like in Florida, up to 12-15 weeks. Unlike the mainstream media, this issue is not black and white.

4. Govt. Spending- Out of Control. The GOP has failed on this issue and needs to do better. Get the spending under control.

5. Foreign Wars- Stay out of them as much as possible. The USA has lost blood and treasure for 2 decades without accomplishing a damn thing. Learn from those mistakes and don't repeat them.

6. Woke Agenda- Oppose the Woke Agenda at all levels. This type of stuff is anti-American, Anti-Family, Unconstitutional and unpopular among the masses.

7. Taxes- The money that you earn belongs to you not the government. Somehow, the left thinks lower taxes is the same as free handouts like student loan forgiveness. Redistribution of money to accomplish social goals doesn't work and hurts the economy.

8. Inflation- Stop printing and spending money we don't have.

9. Social Issues- Stay out of the bedroom and people's personal lives but maintain traditional sex definitions like MEN or WOMEN. Oppose the PRONOUN WOKENESS, keep sex out of elementary schools, let parents have a big say in their kid's education, etc

10. Oppose the Cancel Culture

 

[vector2]

DeSantis is a MAGA clown who would still be a trumpist but by the grace of he and trump are currently vying for the same thing.

He's endorsed multiple election deniers and afaik has still never admitted that Biden was lawfully elected. Blade is free to have all this anti-democratic, scare tactic based, morally bankrupt, intellectually bankrupt conservatism he wishes.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Rebublican base who control the primaries refer to the Bushs, Cheneys, and Romney as RINOs. The only reason Romney is still around is because he’s a Mormon from Utah.

That's how Trump will paint Desantis too. The only elet

DeSantis is a MAGA clown who would still be a trumpist but by the grace of he and trump are currently vying for the same thing.

He's endorsed multiple election deniers and afaik has still never admitted that Biden was lawfully elected. Blade is free to have all this anti-democratic, scare tactic based, morally bankrupt, intellectually bankrupt conservatism he wishes.

Desantis is a typical politician not a MAGA Clown. In order to win the national election for President he will move to the center. And, you love the name calling which is part of your WOKE CANCEL CULTURE Agenda.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

And, you love the name calling

Irony is dead.

 

[deleted1116990]

There’s a substantial faction within the GOP with that viewpoint . It’s not really an extreme position within that party.

To fact check you, define substantial. Sure it's not a fringe group like Nation of Islam or something, but it's a minority position of a minority party (29% of republicans in 2020 vs. 37% in 2006).
Evangelicals about to drop down into single digit percentage of the population declining with no floor in sight...

From WaPo of all places...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/08/rapid-decline-white-evangelical-america/

Furthermore, while I certainly don't fit in with that group, they are objectively not the most awful people on the planet. I can't take the moral panic over fears of "christian nationalism" seriously, nor should anybody who has even briefly studied history and can put worry over American evangelicals proposed policy positions in the context of past theocratic and autocratic regimes. So many of these whiny Americans have no idea how good they have it. Put down TikTok, leave California, get on a plane and go to South Sudan or Afghanistan or many dozen other places and spend a few months there and come back and talk about how it's the end of the world in America if DeSantis gets elected. Talk about privilege.

 

[vector2]

That's how Trump will paint Desantis too. The only elet

Desantis is a typical politician not a MAGA Clown. In order to win the national election for President he will move to the center. And, you love the name calling which is part of your WOKE CANCEL CULTURE Agenda.

Lmao, the proud two-time TRUMP voter has a problem with name calling in politics! Irony truly is dead.

But anyway, as I said before, you sold out any values you had when you voted twice for trump, and the post you wrote in the OP indicates you'd do it again if you thought trump would be a political boon to your election denying party.

 

[vector2]

Right, this guy reading art of the deal to his infant son isnt a clown. Sure thing.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Lmao, the proud two-time TRUMP voter has a problem with name calling in politics! Irony truly is dead.

But anyway, as I said before, you sold out any values you had when you voted twice for trump, and the post you wrote in the OP indicates you'd do it again if you thought trump would be a political boon to your election denying party.

Stop with the name-calling- it's what a lot of us can't stand about Trump or any politician. As for who I vote for on election day, that's my business and personal decision. I don't agree with a single thing about your political views but I respect your right to hold them and vote for whomever you choose.
In my neck of the woods it's called socialism, but I will let you call it anything your heart desires. You love to associate people with those you despise even though politics in the USA forces us to hold our nose at times and vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[deleted1147063]

I was also THIS close to voting for Trump in 2020. I just couldn't take the Democratic BS anymore. The only thing that held me back was the disgust for the humanoid being.

The fact that I couldn't vote for Biden either (this coming from somebody who still keeps his citizenship welcome letter with Obama's signature) should speak volumes.

I used to not even bother reading republican sources until about 2019-20, I had been that blue for two decades, without knowing it. I used to at the concept of MSM, for example. Big mistake. I had no idea I was in an echo chamber, like many democrats and republicans. There is no smoke without fire, on both sides of the isle. There are so many special interests and narratives, and conspiracy theories...

The partisan media and web sites never mention both sides of a story, the pros and the cons. It's all about brainwashing people into hating the other side. Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad! In the meanwhile, the rich get richer, the poor poorer, and the middle class gets squeezed.

We all have our own "lived experiences". Most of us here are decent people, otherwise we could not work as doctors.

 

[deleted1116990]

You love to associate people with those you despise even though politics in the USA forces us to hold our nose at times and vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

The obsession that some have that their guy or "side" is the only morally correct position (in its entirety) to support and that "both sides" is a fallacy is absurd. Politicians on, yes, "both sides" are in politics to enrich themselves and gain power/influence. You're duped if you think otherwise. Trump got elected because he came along, talked to the poor whites and told them the system was corrupt, and he knew it was corrupt because he was a part of it and was smart enough to take advantage of the loopholes the elites made for themselves, and to vote for him because he would clean it up and make it fair. That was a neat trick as no one had ever said the quiet part out loud before so it worked the first time as his opponent was obviously corrupt as hell and couldn't figure out how to fight back against that. But it then became apparent that he was only interested in continuing to push his family's brand and gain/influence power. He's done.

 

[vector2]

Stop with the name-calling- it's what a lot of us can't stand about Trump or any politician. As for who I vote for on election day, that's my business and personal decision. I don't agree with a single thing about your political views but I respect your right to hold them and vote for whomever you choose.
In my neck of the woods it's called socialism, but I will let you call it anything your heart desires. You love to associate people with those you despise even though politics in the USA forces us to hold our nose at times and vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

You use "socialist" as a pejorative even though neither Southpaw nor myself are socialists, and then you whine about name calling. You are a hypocrite blade, plain and simple, and I'm not going to apologize for calling a spade a spade, a buffoon a buffoon, or a clown a clown.

And your cries of "what you cant stand" are as hollow as they were in 2015. You pay lip service to these values and then cast your vote for what was definitely the worse of two evils. It's obvious why you never responded to the observation that true moderates like @pgg who would've benefited from trump voted third party (because they knew a trump vote was a vote against the best interests of the country). You know your vote was indefensible, but yet you continue this holier than thou bs charade even though we all know you would vote for "toxic trump" -who you freely admit is a narcissist and a criminal - if you thought he could win in '24

 

[BobLoblaw78]

What if you're her parents? Suck it up kid, sorry but because you transitioned, you can't swim anymore. What if you're UPenn? You tell her she can't swim, or force her to swim with dudes now? Seems....not the best situation really for anyone. It wasn't good, obviously, for her female competitors either. And I wasn't on board with Lia swimming against females. I just wasn't sure what else she should do. She made it clear she wanted to continue swimming. Forcing her to swim against males after transitioning to a female doesn't seem fair either.

I think that sums up the differences of opinions fairly succinctly. If I make a decision that creates an unfair situation then who should pay/suffer. Me or someone else? One side consistently chooses for others to suffer/pay for their decisions than for themselves to suffer/pay. For example trans-women competing against women, abortion, "democratic socialism", college loan "forgiveness", prosecuting criminals/rioters, etc. The list could go on and on. I have never quite thought of it this way, but it does seem to explain a lot of the stances on these issues.

I feel like both sides truly want fairness, but unfortunately both sides have a different viewpoint of what is fair.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I was also THIS close to voting for Trump in 2020. I just couldn't take the Democratic BS anymore. The only thing that held me back was the disgust for the humanoid being.

The fact that I couldn't vote for Biden either (this coming from somebody who still keeps his citizenship welcome letter with Obama's signature) should speak volumes.

I used to not even bother reading republican sources until about 2019-20, I had been that blue for two decades, without knowing it. I used to at the concept of MSM, for example. Big mistake. I had no idea I was in an echo chamber, like many democrats and republicans. There is no smoke without fire, on both sides of the isle. There are so many special interests and narratives, and conspiracy theories...

The partisan media and web sites never mention both sides of a story, the pros and the cons. It's all about brainwashing people into hating the other side. Four Feet Good, Two Feet Bad! In the meanwhile, the rich get richer, the poor poorer, and the middle class gets squeezed.

We all have our own "lived experiences". Most of us here are decent people, otherwise we could not work as doctors.

Your experiences with other doctors must be way better than my experiences with them

 

[Southpaw]

I think that sums up the differences of opinions fairly succinctly. If I make a decision that creates an unfair situation then who should pay/suffer. Me or someone else? One side consistently chooses for others to suffer/pay for their decisions than for themselves to suffer/pay. For example trans-women competing against women, abortion, "democratic socialism", college loan "forgiveness", prosecuting criminals/rioters, etc. The list could go on and on. I have never quite thought of it this way, but it does seem to explain a lot of the stances on these issues.

I feel like both sides truly want fairness, but unfortunately both sides have a different viewpoint of what is fair.

Have your really thought this through? Is that how I made it into and through med school and residency? Just putting my problems on others to solve? No way. Absolutely not. I paid off my loans, like many others, in the first couple of years after residency. I don’t come from money.

Did Lia Thomas transition so that she could compete against women, beat them, and bring pain and disappointment by beating them? Of course not. Life isn’t that simple.

Life’s pretty ugly. It doesn’t fit into a neat little box. Abortion absolutely fits into that territory, and the women who deal with decisions with regard to THEIR body.

Republicans love to paint life as white and black. White good. Black bad. No in between. Life is largely, for many, lived in the gray. Your thoughts are off.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

My point is that using the word “woke” is actually a way to avoid discussion and debate about issues. It’s a garbage pail term used to lump groups of people together. It’s current use is lazy and just wrong. From what I can tell, woke can refer to activists for transgender, gay, black, the environment, anti-corporate economics, drug legalization. Anything else?

Woke meet MAGA. MAGA meet Woke.

 

[deleted1116990]

Life’s pretty ugly. It doesn’t fit into a neat little box. Abortion absolutely fits into that territory, and the women who deal with decisions with regard to THEIR body.

Republicans love to paint life as white and black. White good. Black bad. No in between. Life is largely, for many, lived in the gray. Your thoughts are off.

You just did this though. You made abortion a black and white issue about a woman's body. The reason that it's a messy issue is that the argument the "pro-life" side has is that there are two bodies in the equation, not just the woman's body. The question is simply "at what point is acceptable to kill a human life?" But nobody on either side will honestly define the question that way because nobody wants to give a clear black-and-white answer to that question whether it's 5 seconds, 5 days, 5 weeks, or 5 months. Instead we get stupid mental twisting saying it's not a separate human life until it passes out the birth canal or a zygote is the same thing as a 45 year old.

 

[vector2]

. Instead we get stupid mental twisting saying it's not a separate human life until it passes out the birth canal or a zygote is the same thing as a 45 year old.

Neither of these extremes are prevalent views, though. A plurality of liberals think abortion should be legal with some exceptions and a plurality of conservatives think it should be illegal with some exceptions. That being said, a solid majority of Americans support the legality of abortion with some exceptions.

 

[deleted1116990]

Neither of these extremes are prevalent views, though. A plurality of liberals think abortion should be legal with some exceptions and a plurality of conservatives think it should be illegal with some exceptions. That being said, a solid majority of Americans support the legality of abortion with some exceptions.

That's exactly my point. Most people, whether identifying as pro-life or pro-choice, when pressed, will admit that taking a pill that prevents implantation of an embryo is not the same thing as first degree murder and will also admit that a person who is 37 weeks pregnant with a healthy baby and comes in and says "I just don't really feel like it anymore" is pretty horrifying.

Yet, how many politicians will get up there and say, "you know, it overall feels wrong to me at any point, but I can reasonably see where someone could disagree up until about 9-10 weeks or so based on my understanding of human development," which is basically my opinion. No instead neither side will acknowledge the messy reality and stick with an absurd black-and-white of it's purely a woman's body until delivery or a zygote is a baby. And sadly it's a non-zero number of people that fall for that and stick to the absurd reductionist party lines. The chart you posted is interesting. Presumably the "exceptions" mentioned are rape and incest, which are a vast minority of abortions, yet are constantly brought up. The exception that is interesting would be the age limit.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Have your really thought this through? Is that how I made it into and through med school and residency? Just putting my problems on others to solve? No way. Absolutely not. I paid off my loans, like many others, in the first couple of years after residency. I don’t come from money.

Did Lia Thomas transition so that she could compete against women, beat them, and bring pain and disappointment by beating them? Of course not. Life isn’t that simple.

Life’s pretty ugly. It doesn’t fit into a neat little box. Abortion absolutely fits into that territory, and the women who deal with decisions with regard to THEIR body.

Republicans love to paint life as white and black. White good. Black bad. No in between. Life is largely, for many, lived in the gray. Your thoughts are off.

I was referencing major political stances on major issues on a national level. Not on your microscopic personal level that you seem to have taken offense to when none was intended. Sorry you took it that way. But it does sound like you are against loan forgiveness which is something that we both have in common!

No. I can't imagine anyone transitioning for that reason. But Lia's decision had consequences that many women had to suffer for and they paid the price, not Lia. I feel for the women that got beat and you feel for Lia. We are both compassionate. We just have different viewpoints on what was fair.

I think all abortion is wrong. Yet I am willing to concede on certain abortions despite it going against my personal convictions. I think that shows much tolerance and nuance for living life in the gray... as opposed to how you paint republicans as only black and white. Agree, all life is in the gray.

I had an analogy that you can pick apart. Say I was immature and took out student loans way in excess of what I needed. Yes, it was a poor decision but it was fun at the time. Should I really be punished and let it ruin my life? I mean it was a bad decision so can't we just get rid of it? Or should I have to pay back the loans? Most abortions are for convenience and because of bad decisions. Those that are bc of bad decisions or that are for convenience are the ones that I can't defend.

 

[vector2]

That's exactly my point. Most people, whether identifying as pro-life or pro-choice, when pressed, will admit that taking a pill that prevents implantation of an embryo is not the same thing as first degree murder and will also admit that a person who is 37 weeks pregnant with a healthy baby and comes in and says "I just don't really feel like it anymore" is pretty horrifying.

The thing is, philosophically I think that viability should be cut off for when abortion is permitted, but when it comes down to brass tacks I'd rather there not be any fetal age restriction. In reality, the "I just don't feel like it anymore" late-term abortion is the rarest of the rare type of late-term abortion. It probably is a fraction of a fraction of the 1% of abortions which are late-term. The late-term abortions which do happen are usually some kind of edge case involving either fetal defects or some kind of harm to the mother. And these edge cases don't fit neatly into little restriction clauses in laws which pertain to survivability/health of the mother or baby. Ultimately, the woman and her doctor who have tough moral and health decisions to make don't need to be hamstringed by legislators (barely capable of mastering the 6th grade sex ex curriculum) who think they should decide the nuances of neonatal/obstetric issues.

Yet, how many politicians will get up there and say, "you know, it overall feels wrong to me at any point, but I can reasonably see where someone could disagree up until about 9-10 weeks or so based on my understanding of human development," which is basically my opinion. No instead neither side will acknowledge the messy reality and stick with an absurd black-and-white of it's purely a woman's body until delivery or a zygote is a baby. And sadly it's a non-zero number of people that fall for that and stick to the absurd reductionist party lines. The chart you posted is interesting. Presumably the "exceptions" mentioned are rape and incest, which are a vast minority of abortions, yet are constantly brought up. The exception that is interesting would be the age limit.

Liberals were FINE with leaving Roe/Casey well enough alone, a precedent which set the limit at 23-24 wks for states that wanted to enact some restrictions.

Conservatives were the ones who decided to blow it up, and furthermore enacted 15 state level laws which make NO exceptions, including for rape or incest.

I think it's pretty obvious which side has been more reasonable here.

 

[deleted1147063]

I was referencing major political stances on major issues on a national level. Not on your microscopic personal level that you seem to have taken offense to when none was intended. Sorry you took it that way. But it does sound like you are against loan forgiveness which is something that we both have in common!

No. I can't imagine anyone transitioning for that reason. But Lia's decision had consequences that many women had to suffer for and they paid the price, not Lia. I feel for the women that got beat and you feel for Lia. We are both compassionate. We just have different viewpoints on what was fair.

I think all abortion is wrong. Yet I am willing to concede on certain abortions despite it going against my personal convictions. I think that shows much tolerance and nuance for living life in the gray... as opposed to how you paint republicans as only black and white. Agree, all life is in the gray.

I had an analogy that you can pick apart. Say I was immature and took out student loans way in excess of what I needed. Yes, it was a poor decision but it was fun at the time. Should I really be punished and let it ruin my life? I mean it was a bad decision so can't we just get rid of it? Or should I have to pay back the loans? Most abortions are for convenience and because of bad decisions. Those that are bc of bad decisions or that are for convenience are the ones that I can't defend.

You had me until you started talking about abortions.

Unless you are a woman, you should not have such a strong opinion about this, no offense. I am a man, and I can only imagine how all of this feels to a woman, even just having a vagina that I cannot defend from a stronger male who wants to rape me. Or that, if I make a sexual mistake, I am supposed to carry it for 9 months, like a parasite, then live with the consequences for my entire life, even "just" with the consequences of an abortion. Let's not mention how unpleasant that whole process is, starting with going to a gynecologist. No, thanks.

When about abortion, we should vote what the women we love want. One should not make rules about other people's bodies. It's called "skin in the game".