Military ER

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IgD

The Lorax
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It seems to me that we have overlooked the military ER! We have had extensive discussion about the outpatient clinic, the OR, deployments, GMO, military staffing but we haven't given the ER an equal drubbing.

As an intern, one of my fondest memories was when one of my intern clinic patients showed up delirious. It turned out she had been seen a day or two before in the ER. Her UA was way positive for a UTI but she didn't get treated.

My favorite ER consult is "he is supposed to go on deployment tomorrow..."

I'll probably disappoint most of you by saying that I've had a positive experience in the ER. There was the time my daughter had an asthma attack and another when she stuck a Q-tip in her ear. Then there was the time my wife needed surgery at 2 am on a Sunday...

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You got some smack to talk about the ER, newbie? :smuggrin:

If you want accounts of doing more with less, dealing with unresponsive ancillary services and disgruntled consultants, I've got 'em. I've also got lots of stories about the woes of being the overflow for all those understaffed clinics you've already heard so much about, not to mention being the way-station and downtown-transfer central when the hospital fills up, yet patients still drive from two states away to come to an MTF, not realizing what the cuts have done to our staffing and beds.

If that's what you need, I can do that for you.
 
Quite possibly the best story I have about why the urgent care clinic a.k.a. UCC a.k.a. useless care clinic is not on my top list of military care centers is the following.

Thursday afternoon within my first month of starting active duty I was called to the UCC to see a patient with Bell's palsy. When I arrived, it was obvious that the patient had left-sided 100% loss of the facial nerve on that side. It was clear even at rest. When I asked him when this began he could not articulate at all and was slurring his words.

I asked his wife that this was normal and she said, "No, this began within the last couple of hours." I asked him if he felt weak in any other part of his body. He indicated that he could not raise his right arm and that he had a right footdrop with a weakened right lower extremity entirely. Asking whether this had recently began he indicated that it had.

I went to the attending covering the UCC and said, "This patient does not have Bell's palsy which by definition is idiopathic."

UCC doc, "Whaddya mean?"

"A stroke isn't an idiopathic cause. Could you arrange for him to be transferred to a stroke center and consult a neurologist to find out if they want him scanned here STAT or if they'd prefer for it to be done there."

UCC doc [and I still cannot believe he asked this] "You think it's that urgent?"

"He needed to be there 2 hours ago. Yeah. Now. Please."

Our urgent care clinic then called 911 to handle the emergency in our facility. How's that for excellence in all we do.

I have a few more, but I'm sure many other people would like to chime in.

At our facility, I've never been "wowed" by any care provided to patients needing ENT care, although I think most of the time it does meet standard of care. Nope, I take that back, one time a fairly good family doc did a nice nasal packing on a nosebleed so I ddin't have to come in. I did appreciate that. However, she was a former general surgery resident.

I'm very fortunate I've never had to utilize our UCC yet. In fact, if I even thought I would have to, I'd been on the way to the local hospital so fast, the UCC wouldn't even be a blur en route. They are probably great for general practice type things including asthma and stuff like that. It's just I've seen too many things go wrong to put a lot of trust in that system. Individually, I like the providers. Collectively, the place scares the bejeebers out of me sometimes.
 
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Thursday afternoon within my first month of starting active duty I was called to the UCC to see a patient with Bell's palsy.

You're an ENT, right?

I think the fact that your UCC was calling an ENT surgeon to see a "Bell's palsy vs stroke" is pretty pathetically hilarious in and of itself . . .

Ah, well . . . what, after all, is an ER doc but a family practitioner who can intubate . . . ;)


X-RMD
 
Ah, well . . . what, after all, is an ER doc but a family practitioner who can intubate . . . ;)

Yep, I'm ENT. And it was a family practice doc not an ED physician blowing that call. I konw lots of good FP docs that can handle most issues, but there is a reason people go to different specialties. Even though I can probably handle some of the stuff in radiology, I shouldn't be staffing it and reading everyone's x-rays.

There hasn't been an EM doc on our base for several years. Another interesting sidebar that is worthy of it's own discussion.:scared:
 
Yep, I'm ENT. And it was a family practice doc not an ED physician blowing that call. I konw lots of good FP docs that can handle most issues, but there is a reason people go to different specialties. Even though I can probably handle some of the stuff in radiology, I shouldn't be staffing it and reading everyone's x-rays.

There hasn't been an EM doc on our base for several years. Another interesting sidebar that is worthy of it's own discussion.:scared:

Anybody see a good reason for that? My medical school is affiliated with a hospital whose ED uses family practitioners and internists to staff its non-critical beds, but has emergency medicine docs for trauma. Does the military staff its EDs as big clinics? I am virtually certain that emergency medicine will be my area of practice and since I'm already bound to serve out my time in the AF I'm wondering where I'll fit in. Is there a ED physician shortage?
 
I guess I ought to weigh in since I'm one of the few EPs on here. I'm having a hard time deciding whether to be nice or not. First, for the interested students/residents etc, a bit of information about military EM in general. I work in two military facilities, the first a "useless care clinic" at a base where I am the only active duty emergency physician. We are staffed with 1 military FP, 1 military PA with an EM fellowship, 1 experienced emergency civilian PA, 3 or 4 civilian contractor FPs, and 1 civilian contractor EP, and myself. The level of acuity we see is somewhat greater than most civilian urgent cares, but less than most military EDs. (You'll notice most EPs don't use the word ER, a holdover from the 60s and 70s when the ER was literally a room in the basement of the hospital where the medicine and surgery residents watched patients die, I mean attempted to practice emergency medicine without attending support.) We are overwhelmed with patients turned away by the clinics but do a fair number of abdominal pain, vaginal bleed, minor ortho, minor ophthalmologic, primary care, chest pain etc work-ups. My AF consultants are generally quite responsive to my needs, mostly because they know I don't call them unless I really need them. The last peds consult I called on was a 3 month old with a subdural that I had just put an IO line in because none of our staff could get access. But I frequently bounce things off of ENT, Ophtho, and ortho and arrange close follow-up. I rarely call any of those specialties down/in to see a patient. Cardiology, GI, neuro, neurosurg are at "the big house" down the road and I do mostly phone consultations with them. If a patient needs to be admitted there, the patients are transferred to the care of the medicine team at the big house. The second facility I work in is the ED of "the big house" a military emergency medicine residency program. It is staffed with medical students, interns, EM residents, and board-certified EPs. Its level of acuity is intermediate between my useless care clinic and a civilian community ED. It is not a trauma center and in 8 shifts I have not yet had a patient that needed intubation, but after the trivial stuff is drug off to the fast track, I seem to be admitting about 10% of the patients, mostly to IM and gen surgery, rarely to the ICU. The consultants are mostly residents and of course, as with any academic center, take FOREVER to come and see the patients. CT scan, US, x-ray, and lab are available 24-7 at both facilities and the big-house has an MR, if you can talk the resident radiologist into letting you use it.

Now the mean part:
EPs work in a fish bowl, everyone gets to see our mistakes. But I am quite confident that the sum of my missed diagnoses are less than the amount of work I have saved the other physicians in the hospital every week. In the last week I have seen patients that were turned away by psych, peds, medicine clinic, and family practice clinic. I have seen patients turned away by ophtho, ENT, and ortho. I see post-surgical complications (and post-surgical patients who think they have complications) on nights, weekends, and holidays and keep those doctors at home with their families. Yes, sometimes I wake them up to chat for a minute, but I rarely call them in unless a patient needs to go back to the OR. I even write holding orders most of the time late at night. I see patients referred to the ED by surgical sub-specialists for chest pain that was so obviously not cardiac nor emergent it wasn't even funny. I have taken care of apneic hypotensive patients given retro-orbital blocks by ophthalmologists in an outpatient surgical center without an anesthesiologist within shouting distance. I have seen the children of our staff pediatricians. I have seen the spouse of the chief of staff of the hospital. The wife of a four-star admiral comes to me for emergency care. Surely someone thinks our care is decent, because emergency care is the one thing that NO military member has to go to a military facility for. Tricare pays for all emergencies to be taken care of in a civilian ED. Don't trust us? Go somewhere else. Better yet, get the patient I admitted to you out of the ED within 3 hours of the time of consultation so I can actually take care of the 30 people in the waiting room. (8 hours for ortho to finally make a decision and provide care to a patient the other night)

For every stroke I've consulted ENT on (OK, I admit, that was a huge miss) I bet I've seen 10 bleeding post-tonsillectomy patients. For every time I didn't get enough x-rays for the ortho consultant I've saved them 10 consults for ankle pain, knee pain, back pain etc. For every time I consult medicine for a chest pain patient I've sent 5 chest painers home. For every abdomen I call surgery to evaluate because the radiologist thinks the appy has a bit of fat stranding on one slice, I've sent 8 belly painers home.

I mean, I'm just a family practice doc who can intubate, but those who would prefer that emergency medicine didn't exist can go back to the world where you were lucky to be seen by a medicine/surgery resident in a dark corner of a hospital. The reason EDs are crowded is because either the care elsewhere is unavailable or the care in the ED is good. Either way, its a gold star for emergency medicine.

Military emergency medicine deals with the same problems that military medicine deals with everywhere. The only difference is our training teaches us specifically how to take care of people in a broken medical system. We learned on the homeless, the drunks, and the stupid who couldn't line up follow-up care if their life depended on it (and it often did) so it is relatively easy to transition to a system where obtaining good medical care for a patient can often be difficult. I frequently do my own follow-up care because it is so hard to get a patient into primary care. I worry more about the care that my patients get from under-trained or under-employed consultants after they go upstairs than the care they receive in the ED. I mean, if the general surgeon's case load that month consisted of one appy and 12 colonoscopies....how well will he be able to care for this lady with SLE, CAD, and an ischemic colon?

My commanders at both facilities are physicians all the way up to the 0-6/0-7 level. We get stupid e-mails and extra administrative tasks that civilians don't deal with, but they're fairly minimal and we have the greatest population in the world. Higher acuity patients, higher pay, and fewer deployments would ALMOST make me consider a career.

If you're interested in military EM, I recommend you attempt to get civilian residency training and prepare yourself for the possibility of a GMO tour and/or a military residency. But in my case, I have been pleasantly surprised many times so far. Expect the worst and you frequently will be too. I'm still bitter about the flu-goo though. I just got my voice back today.
 
I'm residency-trained and board-certified EM, but I'll be the first to say that a lot of what we do in the ER is basic general medicine, and a sharp FP or Internist can probably manage 80% of it.

It's the other stuff that differentiates EM from other specialties... peds, trauma, airway disasters, etc. That 10-20% is where you might want an EM physician.

Another point: I'm not a residency-trained-only nazi. EM is one of those specialties where the fiery crucible of experience can teach an incredible amount... I don't care what specialty somebody initially trained in, I'll give serious consideration to anybody who's worked a busy ER for 20 years... nurses and techs included. That length and breadth of experience can really train your clinical eye, and that "he doesn't look right, doc" gestalt that a smart clinician takes seriously.

Was anyone here dumb enough as an intern to blow off that worried page from the 20-year veteran ICU nurse, and when you ignored it, how long did it take between when that pager went off and the code was called overhead? (it's ok... you don't have to answer).

Some things books simply cannot teach... I'll give anyone credit for experience.
 
As an ortho resident, considering that musculoskeletal system complaints are amongst the most common presenting complaints to physicians, I have been completely underwhelmed by the level of interest EM residents show in learning/studying the musculotskeletal system. It's not rocket science, but it is complex and detail oriented. Our EM residents seriously want to reduce fractures, but they don't want to learn all the details associated with these injuries/procedures (i.e. they want to yank it straight with reckless abandon). I would assume that military EPs see a greater than average amount of MSK complaints. I would hope that military EM folks show much more knowledge and interest than their civilian counterparts (in the six institutions I've worked/trained in). I work 80+ hour weeks (heavy on the "+"); with 60 hour weeks EM residents should have more time to bone up on this, but they don't. And why should they? What's the incentive?

It's always interesting to hear the perspective of someone who works as much as half the hours as you do who criticizes you for not working fast enough. An 80+++ hour week may include about <4 hours spent in the call room...

Agreed with EX-44E3A, the best EM staff is the most experienced and most dedicated, regardless of credentials and initials. The best EM doc I've ever met is a gray-haired IM doc who can manage a CVA, MI, trauma workup, and classify and reduce pretty much any fracture to satisfy the worst Axis II orthopod out there (in addition to the regular medicine stuff).
 
Desperado, I 100% agree with all that you said and cannot argue a single point.

I would also say that in the community hospitals, the ED docs do an amazing job of allowing me to stay home when I don't need to come in. They are fantastic and truly appreciated.

However, in the large Level I trauma centers, of which I have only covered 3 in the last 8 years, I find that they are so inundated with patients that I'm not "protected" by the EP's who do not have time to take care of the nosebleeds, the peritonsillars, the eyebrow lac, etc. I often have been and continue to get called in to deal with those situations mostly as an extra pair of hands. At times I get frustrated with them, but at the same time I know their time is better spent taking care of the true emergency patients. It's the lack of access of which you speak that is what really is the frustrating part.

It also hurts when those patients wait until 2AM to come in instead of doing it during the daytime.

Anyway, I think that the problem is the system, not the individuals. Other than a few blown calls, I rarely meet the individual provider for whom I don't have great respect. I have trouble with the system in the military where they want to maintain access with an UCC, but they fail to realize that they can't play ball with 1/2 a sphere. They've got to support it or pull the plug. Medicine is not meant to be an half-arse profession, but the way that our UCC runs at times it seems to want to do so. That's not a knock on the FP's or EP's, it's a knock on how the system runs it. The docs can't provide the care they want and sometimes aren't trained or equipped to handle the situations in which they find themselves. (e.g. This weekend a pt with a suspected parapharyngeal space abscess couldn't get tx because we couldn't have radiology come in do to a CT of the pt's neck--they do not man anything but plain films on the weekend. Pt had to be transported to the local hospital to get care. It wasted time and resources to go through that whole process.)

My community hospital on the other hand is a model of efficiency. I love that place and truly appreciate the good they do for both my patients and myself as a guy who enjoys his sleep.
 
Ex-44E3A-

Don't you love it when the ER docs describe themselves as the only docs 'doing less with more', and posture as the ultimate 'clinicians'.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but the vast majority of ER docs that I've dealt with are intellectual shrinking violets and glorified triage people.

Its ****ing shift work. You're not saving the world. Your fingers in the ****, until your shift is over, and you pull it out.

xTNS
 
You trying to start a fight, Navy? Sure sounds like it.

I just know you'd hate to reinforce that stereotype of the abrasive arrogant surgeon... :laugh:
 
Ex-44E3A-

Don't you love it when the ER docs describe themselves as the only docs 'doing less with more', and posture as the ultimate 'clinicians'.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but the vast majority of ER docs that I've dealt with are intellectual shrinking violets and glorified triage people.

Its ****ing shift work. You're not saving the world. Your fingers in the ****, until your shift is over, and you pull it out.

xTNS

"shrinking violet, a
An extremely shy person, as in She was a shrinking violet until she went away to college. This metaphoric idiom refers to the flower, but the precise allusion is unclear, since violets thrive under a variety of conditions and often are considered a garden weed. [Early 1900s] "

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but the vast majority of surgeons I've met are abrasive, dismissive fools who think working until their brains are numb helps their patients by virtue of their suffering. Being credentialed to perform a laparotomy doesn't somehow give a person the ability to care for all problems in medicine, despite the belief of many surgeons.
I've been on general surgery services that functioned as triage nurses. Arrythmia? Get a cards consult. Mid-shaft clavicle fx? Better have ortho tell us it doesn't need anything but a sling again. Broken nose? Have ENT look at it. 17 year old kid? Shouldn't peds take him and we'll consult? Everyone "triages" to a certain extent. Hurling insults just reinforces the stereotypes.

It's a F---ing appendix. You ain't saving the world. Your finger is in the **** until the operation is over, and you pull it out, leaving the ED to care for your complications.
 
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It's a F---ing appendix. You ain't saving the world. Your finger is in the **** until the operation is over, and you pull it out, leaving the ED to care for your complications.

Real nice, Desparado! :laugh:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but I'm going home in a hour! :smuggrin:
We're not out to save the world. We like to play for a while then leave. Make a little money, help a few people, have a real life. Sounds good to me.
I'll be sure to ask your opinion on how treat anaphylactic shock, ectopic pregnancy, setting a fracture, calming a psychotic druggie, a febrile 32 day old, acute CHF, STEMI, heat stroke, intubations, and even bullcrap I feel bads. Add to the list as you see fit that you will never remember how to manage if you ever learned in the first place. I may not know the ins and outs of Cards, Pulm or how to do a chole-docho-J, or anything else as well as the specialists, but I do guarantee I get to do almost all of the fun stuff to the patients and then let the poor 80+ hours a weekers watch them on the wards. Once the tubes and lines are in, the pressors and abx are on board and the patient is stable, I'm happy to leave the maintenance or 6 hour procedure to another. So f'n what, you're a cutter. Whee. I like the OR too, but after 1000 of anything it all gets old. If we're all going to get bored, I'll be happy with my 36 hours a week for about the same pay as your 70 nets you. And I still have time for golf, beer, cigars, my motorcycle, my wife and kids. (not necessarily in that order!)

BTW- you're right Desparado- I have never seen a "generalist" service turf so much easy crap. Of course we turf! We don't follow the patients upstairs, and we are not the specialists.

Flame off... Steve
 
It seems to me that we have overlooked the military ER! We have had extensive discussion about the outpatient clinic, the OR, deployments, GMO, military staffing but we haven't given the ER an equal drubbing.

Ya, I have: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4154779&postcount=2

The last time I had the misfortune of going to the Metropolitan Guatemalan Medical Center E.D. (ca. May 05), the E.R. physician in charge was asking the PA: "What do you think of this chest X-ray?" I shuddered, documented my intubation, and ran away weeping inside for the death of military medical excellence.

I am sure that there are brilliant and enlightened military E.D. docs. A sum total of zero were stationed at Andrews from 2000-2005.

--
R
 
first... they seemed to like being called the ED not the ER...

as a resident at wilford hall I was called to the ER to rule rupture AAA on at least five different occasions... I was able to do this each time by looking up on the computer a CT scan done on the same patient within the last 3 months. I also ruled out cholecystitis by printing out the patient's path slip on CHCS of when they had their gallbladder removed three years prior... they didn't seem to like to look up data on the computer...

they also liked the phrase "Do you mind coming down and 'laying eyes' on the patient... that particularly bugged me... I would have rather had the truth... "we have spun the triage wheel, come up with your specialty, and want to pass both the medical legal and the disposition buck to you"

As a 3rd year resident I carried the on call urology pager... I had a severe asthmatic attack at home one night that got me a trip into the Wilford Hall trauma room... I got placed on telemetry and jacked full of albuterol, iv steroids and benadryl... my pager goes off on the gurney and it is the ER calling to consult me... when they find out that I am there, one of them comes to my gurney "to run a patient by me"- this as I delirious from so much iv benadryl and steroids- still with the 12 lead ekg attached.

they also always page you to the phone in the ER that they run the continuous recording to- so they can secretly tape you. One of my resident colleagues got to sit through a playback of him whining on tape about having to come in and see an obvious non-issue. I always called back on another line that wasn't wired just to F with them.

However, when I was a patient or my kids were patients of the AF ERs we always got good treatment... which is nice.
 
so they can secretly tape you

Whatever.

Those big-brother tape recordings were an ER (ED now stands for "Erectile Dysfunction... thanks Pfizer!) life-saver; they often provided crucial corroboration for us when "issues" arose. Unfortunately, lots of people get off on treating the ER physicians like dirt, cussing us out, and generally acting like complete bozos.

If people had more integrity and were willing to take a little responsibility for their behavior towards their colleagues, it would never be a problem. I never understood physicians who felt it necessary to polish their nasty attitude and abuse their fellows. I can tell you that such behavior doesn't survive well outside academic centers or the military... the dynamics and politics of private practice provide plenty of corrective incentives for such people.

It's one thing if somebody comes back later and says "hey man, sorry about that... my bad." We all have bad days, and a genuine apology will get you a pass with me every single time... but you've got to be man enough to admit it. Some people don't seem to think they owe an apology to anybody (this isn't an issue for anyone who is married... you know what I'm talking about :D )

After I burned a few people using the phone-call-recordings (and exposed their behavior to a little light-of-day scrutiny), they stopped screwing with me. It's a little hard to lie when your own words are right there... takes that whole "one officers word against another" thing right out of play.

Bottom line: don't say anything you wouldn't mind having repeated in front of a room full of people. Besides... is there really any excuse for being that much of a flaming a$$hole? Is the satisfaction you get from venting your spleen really worth the enemies you make as a result? I'm genuinely curious, because I've only seen it come back to bite people.
 
The last peds consult I called on was a 3 month old with a subdural that I had just put an IO line in because none of our staff could get access.

I think I'm in love....

My biggest problem with the ED is that peds is not strongly focussed (go figure). I fear that the change away from transitional year and thus 0 peds clinic time will impair the newer ED docs ability to sort the sick from not sick kids. By and large, they do a pretty good job with kids. I just hate arguing with the attendings about why a fluid resuscitated kid with gastro can go home for 6 hours and be seen in the clinic rather than be admitted. Of course, now the interns write the notes for me, so I don't care who gets admitted.

Ed
 
I'm a 3rd year med student seriously considering EM. I know someone recommended civilian training vs. doing a military residency, but the IFB seems like it has no spots for civilian deferment.

Can anyone recommend which is better for EM - Lackland or Wright-Pat?


Initally I thought I'd do my residency in EM and then a fellowship in Peds. Would it be better to do Peds residency and then EM fellowship?
 
Can anyone recommend which is better for EM - Lackland or Wright-Pat?


Initally I thought I'd do my residency in EM and then a fellowship in Peds. Would it be better to do Peds residency and then EM fellowship?

Try to rotate at both programs during your fourth year. I can't say which is better in the way of training. I know that Lackland is combined with the Army program at Brooke. I know a couple of folks there and they are enjoying their training. Choose the program that you best fit into and will learn the most from. In the Army, all three programs are good, and each attract slightly different personalities and have a different feel to them. Try them both out and choose what feels best.

If I remember correctly it is possible to do and EM residency then a Peds fellowship and become dual boarded in both, but not the other way around. Someone with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I did a deferred civilian residency, but I did clerkships as both places. Here's what I remember.

IIRC, the WP EM program is basically a civilian program, and it's mostly civilian hospitals; you don't spend much time at the base hospital at all. In contrast, I think EM at Wilford-Hall/BAMC is mostly military hospital time.

The program at Wilford-Hall is very academically-oriented... their yearly EM inservice scores are uniformly outstanding, and higher than WP. On the other hand, when I rotated there, Wilford Hall had a reputation of being much more malignant than WP, and to hear the students on the other services tell it, the whole hospital was that way... even the pediatricians (how do you get a malignant pediatrician?).

Either program is probably fine, but do a frank assessment of your own needs and motivation. The people at WP were nicer and more relaxed, but if you're not self-directed, a program with Wilford-Hall-style in-your-face pimping/hazing might be a better choice.

This was some years ago (obviously), and programs change over time, so it could be just the opposite now... you'd be well-advised to check them out for yourself.
 
This is a really useful thread..... thank you. :thumbup:

So can anyone talk about Navy ER...er....EM...er...ED...ah hell...practicing as a Navy person in an emergency care environment.

And for what it is worth - I've had great care in all the.... um.... emergency places.... I or my family have used in the military. Granted, we're pretty healthy, so we aren't there that often.
 
Ah hell... that's too much nomenclature. I'm an "ER doc."

People don't know what you're talking about otherwise... Besides, haven't you been watching those TV commercials from Pfizer? ED = Erectile Dysfunction

(yeah... OK... it may be accurate, but you don't have to rub it in :laugh: )
 
I also work in a Navy ED, so if you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

Remember:
Specialty- EM Emergency Medicine
Place we work- ED Emergency Department
What we are- EP Emergency Physician
TV Show- ER

Well, just I am just a lowly MS0 (thank pre-allo for that term) and have only a vague idea about the specialties I think I like - I'll ask the basics first.

Do military EDs have enough of a patient population that you stay current on the serious stuff (I know we've got enough ear infections and late night asthma attacks to cover those!) - I've been told places like Portsmouth send out the real trauma cases to the local hospitals. But that is word of mouth.
 
Most of us are cool with being called ER Docs, but I have found a fairly large percentage of residency directors are irritated by applicants that use the term so I try to emphasize to medical students not to use it. For example, the EM residency director at Portsmouth...

That's an excellent point. Until you actually have your sheepskin, it pays to play the Program Director's game. Once you're boarded, you can call yourself whatever you want.

And the military environment does NOT provide enough sick people to keep your skills up, and that goes for many specialties. There's a reason why every single place I interviewed for jobs asked me if I moonlit outside the military environment.
 
There's a reason why every single place I interviewed for jobs asked me if I moonlit outside the military environment.

So is this possible? One of those "it is allowed but don't advertise that you are doing it" sorts of things?
 
Now you've heard from the only (or previously active duty) AF EPs on the board.

Ahem. You seem to have forgotten about moi. But, at least you guys had the benefit of being trained for the job. Just imagine having to do your jobs without the necessary training, i.e. the capital "A" at the end of 44E3.

I distinctly recall that my AFSC did not have that letter...
 
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