Minorities in EM

[4paw]

My graduating EM class of 8 didn't have a single white male in it. We had one guy who looked white, but was actually light skin-toned guy of middle eastern descent.

vive la revolution!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[8744]

When I hear the word "diversity" I reach for my revolver.

 

[8744]

"Diversity," "multiculturalism," and the usual pap are most often code words for the leftist idea du jour.

 

[GeneralVeers]

"Diversity," "multiculturalism," and the usual pap are most often code words for the leftist idea du jour.

Agreed. The code phrases are "We need to increase diversity" or "A multicultural society is essential". Why these things are good, is never completely explained.

Is a culturally diverse EM residency better than an all white one? How about an all female residency? Should we try to get Samoans into every residency class to improve "diversity"?

It's always interesting to me that the very people who are activists against racism are the ones counting the number of people who are black, female, lesbian, etc.

 

[Jeff698]

And it's true, too, that Rochester is, for some reason, like another universe. One would think that with the Mayo and IBM both employing so many people, the population of Rochester wouldn't have to be so (as you said, referring to the Mayo patient mix) homogenous.

I don't think it is.

On my second look there, I toured the public school system to decide if my kids would be well served there. It turns out they have some unbelievable variety of primary languages spoken in that district. I remember asking how many other languages were represented. It was easily more than I could name.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[8744]

I don't think it is.

On my second look there, I toured the public school system to decide if my kids would be well served there. It turns out they have some unbelievable variety of primary languages spoken in that district. I remember asking how many other languages were represented. It was easily more than I could name.

Take care,
Jeff

Oh man. You definitely don't want "diversity" in your kid's school as this is usually a code word for "crappy." Find a nice middle-class school district with the minimum of "diversity" and buy a house in that district.

Don't sacrifice your children to someone else's social crusade.

 

[quideam]

Oh man. You definitely don't want "diversity" in your kid's school as this is usually a code word for "crappy." Find a nice middle-class school district with the minimum of "diversity" and buy a house in that district.

Don't sacrifice your children to someone else's social crusade.

Man, Panda, you sound... like my father!!

 

[FirstMANdown]

Not to venture too far off the topic at hand, but there is another thing to consider besides the black and white issue in this country. Why has no one mentioned the fact that the real problem is FMG's!!! They fill in many spots such as EM, Surgery, IM, FP and so on.....I am not against FMG's working in this country but I feel that ALL American grads should be filled in first before ANY FMG's are considered. Most foreign medical schools are free rides while the average American medical school debt is $200,000.00 Maybe if we gave 100% fill rate for American grads first then there probably would be more "American Minorities" in the different specialties of medicine. Many programs say they give prefrence to US grades but I dont believe this to be entirly true, most PD's just sell out for the person with the highest board scores which in my opinion is Bull@*^#! The average FMG probably studies 1 to 2 years to take and score high on Step 1 & 2 whereas the average US medical student has 4 to 6 weeks to study and score high on the Step 1 & 2 exams....now is that a fair way to compare two people shooting for the same position. The medical system is all screwed up. But hey, thats just my opinion. In another 20+ years the Native whites in this country will be dying out like old dinosaurs just like the Native blacks/Latins as this profession will slowly grow for the hoard from around.

 

[Telemachus]

Not to venture too far off the topic at hand, but there is another thing to consider besides the black and white issue in this country. Why has no one mentioned the fact that the real problem is FMG's!!! They fill in many spots such as EM, Surgery, IM, FP and so on.....I am not against FMG's working in this country but I feel that ALL American grads should be filled in first before ANY FMG's are considered. Most foreign medical schools are free rides while the average American medical school debt is $200,000.00 Maybe if we gave 100% fill rate for American grads first then there probably would be more "American Minorities" in the different specialties of medicine. Many programs say they give prefrence to US grades but I dont believe this to be entirly true, most PD's just sell out for the person with the highest board scores which in my opinion is Bull@*^#! The average FMG probably studies 1 to 2 years to take and score high on Step 1 & 2 whereas the average US medical student has 4 to 6 weeks to study and score high on the Step 1 & 2 exams....now is that a fair way to compare two people shooting for the same position. The medical system is all screwed up. But hey, thats just my opinion. In another 20+ years the Native whites in this country will be dying out like old dinosaurs just like the Native blacks/Latins as this profession will slowly grow for the hoard from around.

Requiring programs to choose from ALL available American grads before considering any FMGs is not the optimal way to go, in my opinion. Programs should be able to choose the residents they want, no matter where they are from, or what criteria the programs use to make this determination; and programs need to be able to decide which residents they don't want under any circumstances (i.e. not rank at all). I don't want to train at a program where the PD is anything less than totally happy about the crop of residents he/she got that year.

Under your brilliant plan, what happens when NO program wants some POS American grad, would you force some program to take him/her before allowing any FMGs to match?

 

[8744]

Man, Panda, you sound... like my father!!

Turn that music down...and you kids get off my lawn!

 

[GeneralVeers]

Turn that music down...and you kids get off my lawn!

Panda are you from a "red state"? (I'm conservative living in SoCal, so I have to keep a low profile)

 

[DOnut]

To the OP, I think this forum has degraded to one of no value. Also from reading the majority of the posts above, you can clearly see why our views are considered a "minority" opinion.

 

[8744]

Panda are you from a "red state"? (I'm conservative living in SoCal, so I have to keep a low profile)

I am from Louisiana. I am in North Carolina right now. I have always been very outspoken ever since I was a conservative student activist back in the early 1990s at UVM when political correctness first gained a strangle-hold on higher education.

 

[Jeff698]

Oh man. You definitely don't want "diversity" in your kid's school as this is usually a code word for "crappy." Find a nice middle-class school district with the minimum of "diversity" and buy a house in that district.

Don't sacrifice your children to someone else's social crusade.

While I would normally agree with you, I was very impressed with the schools I saw there. This is coming from someone who'll have two kids in private schools next year (on a resident's salary...ouch).

Take care,
Jeff

 

[colforbinMD]

 

[colforbinMD]

Not to venture too far off the topic at hand, but there is another thing to consider besides the black and white issue in this country. Why has no one mentioned the fact that the real problem is FMG's!!! They fill in many spots such as EM, Surgery, IM, FP and so on.....I am not against FMG's working in this country but I feel that ALL American grads should be filled in first before ANY FMG's are considered. Most foreign medical schools are free rides while the average American medical school debt is $200,000.00 Maybe if we gave 100% fill rate for American grads first then there probably would be more "American Minorities" in the different specialties of medicine. Many programs say they give prefrence to US grades but I dont believe this to be entirly true, most PD's just sell out for the person with the highest board scores which in my opinion is Bull@*^#! The average FMG probably studies 1 to 2 years to take and score high on Step 1 & 2 whereas the average US medical student has 4 to 6 weeks to study and score high on the Step 1 & 2 exams....now is that a fair way to compare two people shooting for the same position. The medical system is all screwed up. But hey, thats just my opinion. In another 20+ years the Native whites in this country will be dying out like old dinosaurs just like the Native blacks/Latins as this profession will slowly grow for the hoard from around.

Oops I forgot include the quote that cracked me up

 

[corpsmanUP]

Oh man. You definitely don't want "diversity" in your kid's school as this is usually a code word for "crappy." Find a nice middle-class school district with the minimum of "diversity" and buy a house in that district.

Don't sacrifice your children to someone else's social crusade.

Some of the things you say, whether tongue and cheek or just in gest, really bother me. You and the General are prime examples of why I no longer consider myself a conservative. In my opinion, the basic foundation of blue and red, democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives comes down to one word to define each party.

Democrats care first about "people", and everything they believe in stems from wanting to improve the lives of all people.

Republicans care first about "protection", meaning they want to protect themselves first and foremost from anyone and anything that would seemingly infringe on their personal liberties. Of course unless its a "moral issue" like the Shiavo case where they will happily get in your business and reject the "goverment hands off" policy they live by the other 364 days a year.

BTW, Rochester, Minnesota has one of the best public school systems in the country. I too interviewed there and was blown away by the opportunities available to my kids.

Diversity is what makes our country unique, and it is the origin of our country back to Ellis Island. That comment about Somoans was downright stupid and was as irrelevant as you could possibly have come up with. If you want to talk diversity though, how about African Americans and Hispanics? The combination of these 2 races alone will outnumber whites in our country in the next decade for certain. But yet we still have few physicians from these racial groups. You have to wonder why, and if you don't wonder why or care, then you are the classic example of what is wrong with our conservative party.

People are the basis for why we all entered medicine, or at least it should have been. Its easy to place your own values on a set of people and expect them to perform at the same level that you were able to perform at, but not everyone is as "Advantaged" financially, or "intelligence"-wise.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

NO DIVERSITY (i.e. all white men). I think this question should be addressed. .

I resent this. There is more to diversity than race. Why do you believe all white men are the same?

 

[8744]

Some of the things you say, whether tongue and cheek or just in gest, really bother me. You and the General are prime examples of why I no longer consider myself a conservative. In my opinion, the basic foundation of blue and red, democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives comes down to one word to define each party.

Democrats care first about "people", and everything they believe in stems from wanting to improve the lives of all people.

Republicans care first about "protection", meaning they want to protect themselves first and foremost from anyone and anything that would seemingly infringe on their personal liberties. Of course unless its a "moral issue" like the Shiavo case where they will happily get in your business and reject the "goverment hands off" policy they live by the other 364 days a year.

Come on now Corpsman. I think we can all agree that if diversity in one's childrens school means that they rub elbows with the children of the Indian Nephrologist down the street, the Chinese Engineer who lives a few houses down, or the black real estate guy next door than we are all for it. Unfortunately "diversity" also means that the school system will bus your kids to some inner-city ****hole where they will be sacrificed to some lefitst's idea of racial and social justice.

The Durham county schools are thinking of doing this next year, hoping to send some of the affluent suburban kids into the crappy schools to hopefully pull the statistics up enough where they don't look so bad on their reports.

You should note that rich leftists also send their kids to public schools at about the same rate as rich conservatives which, despite all the talk, should show you how they really feel. It is a natural and commendable instinct to want to to protect and shelter your children. I don't think their growth will be stunted if they wait until 12 or 13 to learn how to smoke crack. I also don't think it's unreasonabe to want them to go to a seventh grade without the occasional baby-shower.

Do you know that it would cost me close to 20K to send my three kids to private schools? Of course I can't afford that. I would if I could but that's half of my gross pay. We still have to eat. The only alternative we have is to find a good school district where we are moving and pay a premium for a house. (Good school districts drive the price of real estate up.) If that means that we have to sacrifice a little bit of diversity then so what?

 

[corpsmanUP]

Come on now Corpsman. I think we can all agree that if diversity in one's childrens school means that they rub elbows with the children of the Indian Nephrologist down the street, the Chinese Engineer who lives a few houses down, or the black real estate guy next door than we are all for it. Unfortunately "diversity" also means that the school system will bus your kids to some inner-city ****hole where they will be sacrificed to some lefitst's idea of racial and social justice.

The Durham county schools are thinking of doing this next year, hoping to send some of the affluent suburban kids into the crappy schools to hopefully pull the statistics up enough where they don't look so bad on their reports.

You should note that rich leftists also send their kids to public schools at about the same rate as rich conservatives which, despite all the talk, should show you how they really feel. It is a natural and commendable instinct to want to to protect and shelter your children. I don't think their growth will be stunted if they wait until 12 or 13 to learn how to smoke crack. I also don't think it's unreasonabe to want them to go to a seventh grade without the occasional baby-shower.

Do you know that it would cost me close to 20K to send my three kids to private schools? Of course I can't afford that. I would if I could but that's half of my gross pay. We still have to eat. The only alternative we have is to find a good school district where we are moving and pay a premium for a house. (Good school districts drive the price of real estate up.) If that means that we have to sacrifice a little bit of diversity then so what?

I had a feeling you would come to your senses and stop talking out your bamboo shoot Panda! You comments were simply a bit too arrogant and you know it. Perhaps you were trying to be a comedian, but that too was a failed attempt. You and the General can take your anti-diversity rhetoric on tour someplace else, because you ain't selling many tickets here.

Specifically for you Panda. Re-read your comments on this thread. Jeff stated he felt the Rochester school district was an excellent place for his children because there were many languages represented. Since when did multiple languages turn into a sign that pointed toward poor schools? Most inner city schools that have diversity and less affluent children doubtfully have many languages represented. The schools you are eluding to would in all liklihood have two, English, and Spanish. Jeff was eluding to the type of school you were speaking so highly of (the Chinese engineer's kids, the Indian professional's kids, etc...) Thats where you get multiple languages, and true diversity. I understand you not wanting to bus your kids to some ghetto school with few people of your own ethnicity represented, and that is understandable. I agree with you there. But lets be serious, reverse busing is not going to happen and it does not happen in this day and age. The dominant racial group will never allow it to happen, so don't make your case based on a North Carolina speculation.

The bottom line is you sounded like a racist, not a concerned parent. But I guess coming from the stomping ground of David Duke that would be understandable in your case. You should just watch what you say on a professional forum where people of all backgrounds like to hang out. That shi$ might have flown in Cajun country but it won't fly in the ED where you are now a physician for crying out loud.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Wow - I'm not touching this thread with a ten foot pole. Although it is interesting.

 

[drdrtoledo]

Wow - I'm not touching this thread with a ten foot pole. Although it is interesting.

My latino butt isn't touching it either .

 

[GeneralVeers]

The comment about Samoans was meant to be ridiculous and pointless.

I'm still uncertain as to what the complaint is. So far I hear a call for "more diversity". That's a hard thing to argue for or against, since it could mean anything.

Please give me specific policy changes you'd like government to make to address your concerns. Spouting vague language about a utopian society doesn't provide me with enough information.

 

[8744]

I had a feeling you would come to your senses and stop talking out your bamboo shoot Panda! You comments were simply a bit too arrogant and you know it. Perhaps you were trying to be a comedian, but that too was a failed attempt. You and the General can take your anti-diversity rhetoric on tour someplace else, because you ain't selling many tickets here.

Specifically for you Panda. Re-read your comments on this thread. Jeff stated he felt the Rochester school district was an excellent place for his children because there were many languages represented. Since when did multiple languages turn into a sign that pointed toward poor schools? Most inner city schools that have diversity and less affluent children doubtfully have many languages represented. The schools you are eluding to would in all liklihood have two, English, and Spanish. Jeff was eluding to the type of school you were speaking so highly of (the Chinese engineer's kids, the Indian professional's kids, etc...) Thats where you get multiple languages, and true diversity. I understand you not wanting to bus your kids to some ghetto school with few people of your own ethnicity represented, and that is understandable. I agree with you there. But lets be serious, reverse busing is not going to happen and it does not happen in this day and age. The dominant racial group will never allow it to happen, so don't make your case based on a North Carolina speculation.

The bottom line is you sounded like a racist, not a concerned parent. But I guess coming from the stomping ground of David Duke that would be understandable in your case. You should just watch what you say on a professional forum where people of all backgrounds like to hang out. That shi$ might have flown in Cajun country but it won't fly in the ED where you are now a physician for crying out loud.

Well, Jeez, Corpsman. I don't think anybody will argue that inner-city and predominantly minority schools are pretty crappy. Or rather they will argue it but will silently make sure that they live in a good school district or send their kids to private schools. The difference is that I will say it and some won't out of fear of offending the politcally correct orthodoxy. A typical wealthy democrat will talk a good game but will make good and sure that his children go to the best schools.

As for bussing children around, this is not speculation but an actual plan put forward by the public schools to be implemented next year. And the reason is exactly as I told you. Some of the Durham city schools have such low scores that thet school system is trying to fix the problem by spreading the suburban kids around to hopefully raise the test scores enough to take the heat off. It is shameless, especially because we are paying a substantial premium for housing for the privelege of living in a good school district. We could have literally paid half as much for the same size house if we didn't care about or kid's schools or could afford to send them to private school simply by buying a house in a crappy school district. We researched the school districts, you understand, before researching the real estate.

Like the General, I do not worship at the altar of Diversity. Nobody has yet explained to me why diversity is better than conformity. In fact, the result of diversity as implemented by the usual leftist suspects is balkanization, the division of the nation into little groups of victims perpetually airing their grievances instead of working to secure their prosperity.

 

[8744]

...I understand you not wanting to bus your kids to some ghetto school with few people of your own ethnicity represented...

Don't you understand? Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. The public schools in the inner-city are just crappy and part of this is the mindless liberal worship of diversity as an end in itself which manifests itself as a rejection of traditional teaching methods, standards, and even expectations that children conform to some external standard. (The "good" schools aren't immune from this either, by the way)

Part of this is an entirely unhealthy pre-occupation with race.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Don't you understand? Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. The public schools in the inner-city are just crappy and part of this is the mindless liberal worship of diversity as an end in itself which manifests itself as a rejection of traditional teaching methods, standards, and even expectations that children conform to some external standard. (The "good" schools aren't immune from this either, by the way)

Part of this is an entirely unhealthy pre-occupation with race.

I wouldn't send kids to a black inner-city school for the same reason I wouldn't send them to a rural redneck school. Lack of educational priorities, and dangers with drugs and violence top that list.

 

[8744]

And yes, if you must know I've been kicked off of the "Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name Forum" so since I'm starting my residency in June I thought I'd start hanging out here.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I grew up in very very ethnically diverse Miami. One High School down there is miami northwestern. It is 98% black, (not african american because the majority of students there are from the carribean and have as close a tie to Africa as I do). They have a great football team and have probably 5 or 6 guys in the NFL.

My HS was 44% black 44% hispanic and 12% white (when i went there, I dont know how it is now). It was beneficial to interact with these other groups of people. All that being said most people (say 70%) of people in my HS 3,300 students couldnt pass the SAT. Blame it on the system or whatever but thats a serious problem. For the record my HS football team which was awesome has 4 guys in the NFL and my sr yr out of 40 or so seniors only 4 of us passed the SAT. We did whoop northwestern and win our district title.

I played against some future 2nd tier nfl players and had a future pro-bowl WR on my team who didnt contribute (he was a Jr).

 

[corpsmanUP]

Read my initial reply to this thread. I am not a donkey-riding liberal. It was simply your off-the-cuff, from-the-hip lipservice about diversity that pissed me off. After you re-read my post and then yours (General and Panda), you hopefully will have a better sense of why you were both inappropriate in your comments. If you still can't see it, continue all day the art of commenting...followed by some unrelated diatribe as a rebutal. Are you guys in the businnes of EM or are you the next anchor of Fox News? I actually watch FNC, but that doesn't mean I agree with all its rhetoric...now yours.

 

[BKN]

Read my initial reply to this thread. I am not a donkey-riding liberal. It was simply your off-the-cuff, from-the-hip lipservice about diversity that pissed me off. After you re-read my post and then yours (General and Panda), you hopefully will have a better sense of why you were both inappropriate in your comments. If you still can't see it, continue all day the art of commenting...followed by some unrelated diatribe as a rebutal. Are you guys in the businnes of EM or are you the next anchor of Fox News? I actually watch FNC, but that doesn't mean I agree with all its rhetoric...now yours.

\

Let's see. The suspected troll who set this up was last seen at post #16 and we're now on #78 with three of my favorite posters arguing with each other over very little.

It's time to let it go, IMHO

 

[GeneralVeers]

\

Let's see. The suspected troll who set this up was last seen at post #16 and we're now on #78 with three of my favorite posters arguing with each other over very little.

It's time to let it go, IMHO

We've been arguing about this for over 200 years already. The odds that it can be dropped at this point are very slim.

 

[mfleur]

We've been arguing about this for over 200 years already. The odds that it can be dropped at this point are very slim.

That's optimistic...I say we start here. No point in arguing anymore. So boring anyway.

 

[GeneralVeers]

That's optimistic...I say we start here. No point in arguing anymore. So boring anyway.

I agree. Much better to just watch the magic picture box, and suppress all urge to question authority.

 

[BKN]

I agree. Much better to just watch the magic picture box, and suppress all urge to question authority.

 

[corpsmanUP]

\

Let's see. The suspected troll who set this up was last seen at post #16 and we're now on #78 with three of my favorite posters arguing with each other over very little.

It's time to let it go, IMHO

Out of respect for Pappa EM Smurf ( ), I will do just that. You guys are off the hook (General and Panda).

 

[8744]

Out of respect for Pappa EM Smurf ( ), I will do just that. You guys are off the hook (General and Panda).

Whew. I was just about to break out my, "But some of my best friends are.."

 

[GeneralVeers]

Whew. I was just about to break out my, "But some of my best friends are.."

....are Smurfs?

 

[Wonderous]

bump - this was really funny!

 

[Hard24Get]

bump - this was really funny!

Hey I though Papa Smurf closed this thread!

I think the best way to avoid discrimination is to not disclose your race. Then, by the time you show up to the interview, they're stuck with you for the whole day! WAHAHAHAHA!

 

[TPS report]

Is anyone familiar with websites or sources that provide information on residency programs that have a good reputation for interviewing a good proportion of minority applicants?

Gosh- you would think future docs wouldn't be this easy!

 

[TPS report]

Is anyone familiar with websites or sources that provide information on residency programs that have a good reputation for interviewing a good proportion of minority applicants?

Gosh- you would think future docs wouldn't be this easy!

 

[TPS report]

Is anyone familiar with websites or sources that provide information on residency programs that have a good reputation for interviewing a good proportion of minority applicants?

Gosh- you would think future docs wouldn't be this easy!