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Like? I only hear about military and VA. Do private practice employment gigs cover students loans to any significant amount?
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Like? I only hear about military and VA. Do private practice employment gigs cover students loans to any significant amount?
I thought you saved $50k with a low relatively low debt burden? In what financial scenario would it not pay for itself?
Just idle curiosity. I'm hope it but not counting on it. There are plenty of other options for help with loan debt.
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Yes, in that case, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness might not be for you.I suppose it depends on your career goals. For example, I have a very clear goal of working in a small private practice or starting my own practice.
Yes, in that case, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness might not be for you.
In fairness, it wasn't even remotely designed to be. The real debate is whether or not it's palatable for those intending to work in public institutions and/or whether or not it will still be around by the time folks can take advantage of it.
Sucks for us current med students I guess. Sigh.There's nothing but paperwork and headache keeping someone from setting up their practice as a non-profit.
Second, the secretary of education has said that any changes made to PSLF a will be for future disbursements, as they have always been. I'm fairly confident that those of us that are already done will be able to take advantage of it as planned for now. I would not expect this to continue though.
Sucks for us current med students I guess. Sigh.
As long as I can make more than [PSLF loan forgiveness amount] over the 10 years during which I'm earning forgiveness eligibility, then, from a financial perspective, I'd rather just pay the loans off, take the increased compensation, and call it a day
It's 6 years, not 10, and that's assuming you don't want to do a fellowship. Residency/fellowship counts towards the forgiveness years.
Above is true assuming you make IBR loan payments throughout residency. Also assuming you are attending a public entity for residency (it will be unclear if Kaiser residencies will qualify, for instance).It's 6 years, not 10, and that's assuming you don't want to do a fellowship. Residency/fellowship counts towards the forgiveness years.
Where did you see that? Per the DoE eligibility requires 120 loan payments, which would be 10 years.
I meant 6 years after residency. Your point was that you want to do PP. You can't do PP until you finish residency and residency takes care of 4 years of payments, assuming, as @notdeadyet said, you make payments through residency (on a sidenote: why would anyone NOT make payments during residency?)
Or look into programs that will pay down your debt for or with you. Yes, it may not be in the sexy office you'd imagined, but if you're willing to work with the poor, you can get a good chunk of debt paid off for you. No second job needed.Just running through a calculator.... $300k @ 5% interest accrues about $1250 /month simply in interest (ie: the first $1250 that you pay every month doesn't even make a dent).
More fun calculations!- $150k with a full pre-tax retirement contribution of 18k, leaves you with 132k. If you subtract pretax health insurance costs of, let's say, $500/month that comes to 126k. A nice effective tax rate of 25% will bring your net take home down to ~ $7800 /month. Subtract your $2500 in student loan payments, and now you've got $5300/month to spend on all your necessities for the next 25 years. Congratulations, Doctor! It's time to find a second job.
There is no crime in taking a year out after undergrad and working (and yes, making big sacrifices) to pay that down. There's also no crime in working your way through college, even if this draws out the experience. There's also no crime in going through the community college system to minimize loans.
Or look into programs that will pay down your debt for or with you. Yes, it may not be in the sexy office you'd imagined, but if you're willing to work with the poor, you can get a good chunk of debt paid off for you. No second job needed.
Agreed. But it's hard to argue the financial dire straits of a career while also talking about the huge opportunity costs of not doing it sooner.Financially taking a year off after graduating undergrad for the purpose of paying undergrad loans doesn't make any sense.
Double agreed, but I'd also toss in to get a cheaper undergrad experience.F
From a financial standpoint the real key is to get scholarships or go to cheap medschool.
Me too. And we could smoke during H&Ps...I'd like an office from Mad Men, complete with the sexy martini parties.
I'm waiting on the education loan bubble to burst.
Or better would be lenders to have to map out the monthly payments and time required to pay off the loans and interests.The best political solution would be to eliminate the income phase out and $2,500 limit on student loan interest deduction, raise it to a realistic # like $10k or $15k. Write your Senators!
Or better would be lenders to have to map out the monthly payments and time required to pay off the loans and interests.
No one signed these loans involuntarily. I can't in good conscience request relief for having $200-300k in loans for a $250k/year job for life. This remains one of the best educational investments out there. But nothing comes for free.
Right. I get that. What I don't get is the crisis. With a $250K/year job, you can pay off your loans. Is it easy? No. But who said it was going to be easy? Taking out $300K in loans is a BIG decision. This is why going to community college/state school for undergrad isn't a bad idea for anybody. It's fun to go to Acme University and their $40K/year tuition, but it's better to avoid it if you're debt averse. There might be better facilities at a $300K medical school, but if you have a state school that's a possibility for $200K, you should think long and hard if you're debt averse. And if your only options are an expensive DO program, you need to map out what taking out $300K in loans looks like and come to terms with the fact that if you're paying this off yourself over 20 years, it is certainly do-able, and you will have a nice upper-middle class life, but you will not be wealthy.The problem isn't taking out $200K in loans. The problem is in the interest that builds because you're too poor to pay it off before you make that $250K/year job. That's why people do IBR, PAYE, and PSLF.
Right. I get that. What I don't get is the crisis. With a $250K/year job, you can pay off your loans. Is it easy? No. But who said it was going to be easy? Taking out $300K in loans is a BIG decision. This is why going to community college/state school for undergrad isn't a bad idea for anybody. It's fun to go to Acme University and their $40K/year tuition, but it's better to avoid it if you're debt averse. There might be better facilities at a $300K medical school, but if you have a state school that's a possibility for $200K, you should think long and hard if you're debt averse. And if your only options are an expensive DO program, you need to map out what taking out $300K in loans looks like and come to terms with the fact that if you're paying this off yourself over 20 years, it is certainly do-able, and you will have a nice upper-middle class life, but you will not be wealthy.
I get that it's a lot of money and I get that it sucks making big payments for 20 years. What I don't get is the crisis. We have it MUCH better than almost everyone else. I just can't get too caught up in the hand wringing.
Yeah mine has fangs too. I just try to keep the perspective that the bounce in my step once I shrug it off will be a lot higher than 97% of working folks out there...I can speak for me specifically that it's not hand wringing per se rather the obese monkey on my back.
2 questions related to PSLF
1) An attending told me there is either very recentely passed legislation or legislation working through congress caping PSLF forgiveness at ~55k regardless of when loans originated. No idea if true
2) I've heard that the way physician groups are set up, even a lot of places you would expect to qualify like academic centers may not actually qualify? No idea if true
Right. I get that. What I don't get is the crisis. With a $250K/year job, you can pay off your loans. Is it easy? No. But who said it was going to be easy? Taking out $300K in loans is a BIG decision. This is why going to community college/state school for undergrad isn't a bad idea for anybody. It's fun to go to Acme University and their $40K/year tuition, but it's better to avoid it if you're debt averse. There might be better facilities at a $300K medical school, but if you have a state school that's a possibility for $200K, you should think long and hard if you're debt averse. And if your only options are an expensive DO program, you need to map out what taking out $300K in loans looks like and come to terms with the fact that if you're paying this off yourself over 20 years, it is certainly do-able, and you will have a nice upper-middle class life, but you will not be wealthy.
I get that it's a lot of money and I get that it sucks making big payments for 20 years. What I don't get is the crisis. We have it MUCH better than almost everyone else. I just can't get too caught up in the hand wringing.
Schools charge massive amounts because they're guaranteed loan money due to the federal government extending the loans to everyone. Becomes a viscous cycle.The problem really is in schools charging outrageous tuition. Even without undergrad debt, med students can easily wind up with $250,000 in debt. Now add interest and they'll owe over a half million dollars by the time they're attendings. Yes, you can argue until the cows come home that you're going to be making a lot as an attending and can pay that off over 20 years, but at the same time, I'd argue that without some viable other way to handle all that debt, the incentive to dedicate your life to becoming doctor is less than it would be otherwise.
Until schools start charging less, there will be a loan crisis. And as a sidenote, it's not just DO schools that charge astronomical tuition fees. Some MD schools do as well and some DO schools are cheaper than MD schools.
The plot thickens...Schools charge massive amounts because they're guaranteed loan money due to the federal government extending the loans to everyone. Becomes a viscous cycle.
Or the debt piles up...The plot thickens...
Schools charge massive amounts because they're guaranteed loan money due to the federal government extending the loans to everyone. Becomes a viscous cycle.
Schools charge massive amounts because they're guaranteed loan money due to the federal government extending the loans to everyone. Becomes a viscous cycle.
Do we need more of this here? I think so.The plot thickens...
You can see if the hospital you're wanting to collaborate is an institution which qualifies for PSLF - you'll know this when you interview with them. But then again, who knows how long PSLF will be around - just look at what happened to NHSC.
What happened to the NHSC?
2 k a month? How long is your repayment?Paying off loans is a bummer....I'm doing it now. I pay about 2k a month, but remember that you have to make over 3k a month to actually pay 2k back. So basically im 'starting' off 3k in the whole every month. None of this is going to be tax deductible by the way.
As for pslf, I wouldn't count on that. Anyone counting on that who makes > 150k doing anything is a moran in my opinion.
If paying back loans is a big concern for you, I would recommend picking a higher paying field. Again, depending on how much you value money.
then your post is silly. When I said "I pull that on a monthly basis", I obviously mean pro-rated(over 33-34k or so per month, on pace for over 410k for the year). Awhile back someone asked me what I'm going to make in 2015 and I gave them a number based on how I'm doing these last several months. Obviously it's hard to predict the future(and how contracts will play out over a whole years time), so that's why I referenced things in months.
Right on. I don't think anyone sees a problem with earning more by working more or more efficiently.
It was indeed a silly post. It would be called joking...
...Kind of like how your hyperbole is also a joke.
"No money compared to most other fields"?
What is that? What does that even mean "no money"? 25k less? 50k? 100k? 500k?
MGMA has the 90th% for all hospitalist varieties, IM, Peds, etc around 300k.
You want to bet those folks in that 90th% for their field aren't "hustling" too?
Hell, how many hours per week do you think the average general surgeon puts in? More than 50... their mean is around 330k...BUT if YOU were magically a general surgeon working 60 hours, your efficiency would put you at 600k+...because you are special and those other general surgeons are slackers not worrying about efficiency?
Let me guess, MGMA is way off and the average general surgeon working 50 hours per week already pulls in 500k per year...Right?
Do you know the average hours put in by the different specialties? Oh yea, that's right you claim Derm makes ~1M working 40 hrs/week. IM makes 600k working 60 hours. Neurosurgeons make multi-M working 60 hours. It is ridiculous.
You often make ridiculous claims. You often have for years now.
Lies, bad recommendations, and hyperbole: the go-to trifecta.
EDIT: Not always the case. Sometimes give good input, maybe even solid advice. "But..."