More important - GPA or DAT?

[chill45]

I know it's been asked before, well somewhat, but I was wanting to get some more opinions. I am currently trying to narrow my schools down to apply to but running into conflicting thoughts. My sGPA is 3.42 and oGPA is 3.47, AA/TS/PAT is 20/19/20...when I look at the ADEA book for school stats, I find a few schools that have an average GPA of 3.5-3.6 but AA of 18-19, so I put these on my "maybe" list. Do you think these schools would be in the realm of possibility given my lower than their average GPA but higher DAT?

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[tRad]

Hard to tell, I had somewhat similar stats to you, a 3.54o/3.41s 18/18/20. I applied late and still recieved a few interviews and one acceptance. In my opinon, as long as you have a decent DAT, schools will group you based on your GPA. Either way I think GPA is slighlty more important. Then again, I maybe wrong as every school has a certain way they like to group their applicants. If you APPLY EARLY you have a good shot at getting interviews to your "maybe" schools with your stats. But remeber, its not just about GPA/DAT.

 

[LoupeFiasco]

It takes 3+ years to build a respectable GPA, whereas it takes only 5 hours to attain a set of DAT scores. Some people just don't accel when it comes to standardized tests. GPA is more important, but to go along with that a respectable DAT score is very much so preferred if not required. Do remember that you will not find a concrete answer to this question, and each school will have it's own ranking of these criteria.

 

[Bereno]

Which is more important: The PB or the J in a PP&J?

Answer: neither, they are both required to make a PP&J. However, you can change the ratio of PB to the J slightly and make no difference either way. If you increase the PB a little, you can get away with a little less J, and likewise if you increase the J a little, you can get away with a little less PB. Unfortunately though, this balance can only go so far. For example if you have no PB, you cannot simply add lots of J to make up for it; you will have a mushy sandwich making you yearn for some PB, which anyone can tell you sucks... especially if you also have an apple in your lunch bag that can smash the J sandwich. Likewise if you have no J, you cannot simply add lots of PB to make up for it; you will have a sticky, hard to chew/swallow thing of PB making you yearn for some J. Also, you cannot just add more bread to make up for some missing PB, or J... then you just have bread, and no real PB&J fan will let that slide; they will call your ass out on that party foul! Essentially all are needed, and thus all are critical in getting you your PB&J... You need enough of all to make a good sandwich.

The analogy is there, I promise

 

[theleatherwalle]

It takes 3+ years to build a respectable GPA, whereas it takes only 5 hours to attain a set of DAT scores. Some people just don't accel when it comes to standardized tests. GPA is more important, but to go along with that a respectable DAT score is very much so preferred if not required. Do remember that you will not find a concrete answer to this question, and each school will have it's own ranking of these criteria.

GPA is variable. What is your major, what school did you go to, did you have easy professors, did you cheat?

DAT isn't variable. It is the only grade that is measured and put everyone on a fair plane.

DAT is slightly more important. Also search function is your friend. You're stats seem find though you look like a middle of the ball park applicant. Just apply and hope for the best. Also how can you be bad at standardized tests and have a high GPA. You still have to take tests to attain a high GPA so that argument is just faulty.

Here is the question to ask yourself. In reality when your sitting in that room before you meet the dean for the dental school interview. The most common thought running through your head is what about the other applicants. It is almost always I wonder what their DAT score was. That should give you an indicator of what the most important thing is.

 

[chill45]

Which is more important: The PB or the J in a PP&J?

Answer: neither, they are both required to make a PP&J. However, you can change the ratio of PB to the J slightly and make no difference either way. If you increase the PB a little, you can get away with a little less J, and likewise if you increase the J a little, you can get away with a little less PB. Unfortunately though, this balance can only go so far. For example if you have no PB, you cannot simply add lots of J to make up for it; you will have a mushy sandwich making you yearn for some PB, which anyone can tell you sucks... especially if you also have an apple in your lunch bag that can smash the J sandwich. Likewise if you have no J, you cannot simply add lots of PB to make up for it; you will have a sticky, hard to chew/swallow thing of PB making you yearn for some J. Also, you cannot just add more bread to make up for some missing PB, or J... then you just have bread, and no real PB&J fan will let that slide; they will call your ass out on that party foul! Essentially all are needed, and thus all are critical in getting you your PB&J... You need enough of all to make a good sandwich.

The analogy is there, I promise

This has to be one of the funniest things I've read in a while, kudos

 

[davaidavai1]

I know it's been asked before, well somewhat, but I was wanting to get some more opinions. I am currently trying to narrow my schools down to apply to but running into conflicting thoughts. My sGPA is 3.42 and oGPA is 3.47, AA/TS/PAT is 20/19/20...when I look at the ADEA book for school stats, I find a few schools that have an average GPA of 3.5-3.6 but AA of 18-19, so I put these on my "maybe" list. Do you think these schools would be in the realm of possibility given my lower than their average GPA but higher DAT?

Both your GPA, oGPA and sGPA, and your DAT score are pretty average. With that said you should apply broadly to 12 schools or more. Your DAT isn't high enough to warrant a school to look past your GPA unless you're a URM applying to Meharry or Howard. If you had a 21 or 22AA then I would say apply to Columbia because they'd look past your GPA, but a 20AA is close to the average for most schools.

 

[sfdent1]

Gpa for sure. My friends and I all had the same DAT score of 21 and I applied to 10 schools. They applied to 25 each. Our resumes we're the same but I had a much higher Gpa. I got into 8 schools while one of them got into one school and the other got into two.

In other words keep your Gpa up. I even went to a community college which I think helped.

 

[theleatherwalle]

I am gonna call massive BS.

so you got into 8 out of the 10 schools you applied to...right

Also you went to community college which proves my point about GPA being variable.

 

[Bereno]

Lol look, I think a lot of people are forgetting the bigger picture here. GPA and DAT are two important numbers (equally critical) however, there are lots of things that can really boost an applicant aside from just DAT and GPA. for example, a rocking PS might get you a few more interviews. Some awesome LORs, volunteer exp, or great shadowing exp might also get a few more interviews as well. One thing that some many people seem to forget is how important the interview is; its how you close the deal, and that's huge...

Like I said before, both GPA and DAT are equally important, but there are also a lot of other factors that can really boost an applicant besides these numbers. Try and not loose sight of the forest by looking at the trees.

 

[theleatherwalle]

That is true. I think once you get the interview it just boils down to how the school likes you. Sometimes you may think you did great at interview and get a rejection. Other times you can leave interview going well that was a waste of 500 bucks and a plane ride and get accepted two days later. You are honestly a middle of the ball park candidate just do your best. There is no right answer to the debate. I will never change my opinion because it is much easier to have high GPA than a high DAT. If people think you can bust out a 22+ with two weeks studying you're dead wrong.

 

[MrSummerlin]

Which is more important: The PB or the J in a PP&J?

Answer: neither, they are both required to make a PP&J. However, you can change the ratio of PB to the J slightly and make no difference either way. If you increase the PB a little, you can get away with a little less J, and likewise if you increase the J a little, you can get away with a little less PB. Unfortunately though, this balance can only go so far. For example if you have no PB, you cannot simply add lots of J to make up for it; you will have a mushy sandwich making you yearn for some PB, which anyone can tell you sucks... especially if you also have an apple in your lunch bag that can smash the J sandwich. Likewise if you have no J, you cannot simply add lots of PB to make up for it; you will have a sticky, hard to chew/swallow thing of PB making you yearn for some J. Also, you cannot just add more bread to make up for some missing PB, or J... then you just have bread, and no real PB&J fan will let that slide; they will call your ass out on that party foul! Essentially all are needed, and thus all are critical in getting you your PB&J... You need enough of all to make a good sandwich.

The analogy is there, I promise

The analogy is there...I like...

 

[MrSummerlin]

Lol look, I think a lot of people are forgetting the bigger picture here. GPA and DAT are two important numbers (equally critical) however, there are lots of things that can really boost an applicant aside from just DAT and GPA. for example, a rocking PS might get you a few more interviews. Some awesome LORs, volunteer exp, or great shadowing exp might also get a few more interviews as well. One thing that some many people seem to forget is how important the interview is; its how you close the deal, and that's huge...

Like I said before, both GPA and DAT are equally important, but there are also a lot of other factors that can really boost an applicant besides these numbers. Try and not loose sight of the forest by looking at the trees.

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=657139

 

[BU2012]

Most schools use a formula. I know one of mine was 25% DAT, 25% GPA (broken down into sub-sections), 25% interview, and 25% everything else (how you score that is a secret I guess). Anyway, DAT and GPA are equal and would balance each other out.

In my personal opinion, GPA is more important. Anybody can study and do well on the DAT if they really want it. Not everyone can balance a full course load, EC's, etc. and maintain a cumulative 4.00.

Then it depends on the school as well. Columbia wants high DAT. Harvard wants a more well-rounded applicant with more focus on the GPA. Some schools want high PAT; some don't care. There simply isn't a cookie-cutter model across the board. It varies from school to school and from individual to individual.

 

[dymm]

GPA is variable. What is your major, what school did you go to, did you have easy professors, did you cheat?

DAT isn't variable. It is the only grade that is measured and put everyone on a fair plane.

DAT is slightly more important. Also search function is your friend. You're stats seem find though you look like a middle of the ball park applicant. Just apply and hope for the best. Also how can you be bad at standardized tests and have a high GPA. You still have to take tests to attain a high GPA so that argument is just faulty.

Here is the question to ask yourself. In reality when your sitting in that room before you meet the dean for the dental school interview. The most common thought running through your head is what about the other applicants. It is almost always I wonder what their DAT score was. That should give you an indicator of what the most important thing is.

.


First of all, I have a high DAT and low GPA so I am biased .. but I'd like to add onto to this great PB vs. J debate
These are all true stories and I'll just let you decide what types of variations I'm talking about with regards to GPA.

1. I have experience in two different four year institutions, and I can honestly say that getting A's at one school is easier than the other.
2. My friend and I took the same physiology one quarter. We always studied together along with a few other classmates. I got a B+ and he failed the course. He retook that same class with a different professor the following quarter and got a B+.
3. I know a pre-med finishing up his 5th year of undergrad. Sure he has an amazing GPA, but his course load per quarter is very doable to say the least (e.g. taking 1-2 science classes and non-sci classes without lab component every quarter).

I take full responsibility for some of my sub-par grades, but I never regret being a biological sciences major at a "difficult" school... because I am genuinely interested in the subject, I learned a lot, and I'm confident that my science background will be useful in dental school, the field of dentistry, and beyond.

OP, I have no clue how they look at stats/apps during the pre-interview stage, but I would just be truthful and explain to them your own reasons for having what you have during the interviews if I were you.

 

[theleatherwalle]

I just sorta wanted to add this point. Doctoothache posted an excel file which basically showed this.

3.75 sci gpa=72% of applicants getting in
21 DAT AA=73% of applicants getting in

The average for admitted candidates is 3.5 GPA, 19 TS, 19 AA. So by doing a little math. You can come to realize a few things. Each DAT score is worth about .125 points.

I know that isn't gonna really end this debate, but I just don't think GPA is fair at all. Imagine if you had a guy from Princeton with a 3.3, some guy from UCLA with 3.5, someone from Tennessee with a 3.8, and someone from community college background with a 4.0. How would you judge them without a DAT. They could have taken different majors as well. DAT justifies GPA. Anyway im done responding to the topic since this topic has been all over this website.

 

[Bereno]

I guess I will chime in one last time.

The reason I am saying that they are on equal playing field is because one school might look at one aspect more than another (as others have pointed out). Knowing this, there is not a blanket statement that you can make about one vs the other. All we can know is that some schools favor GPA, others favor DAT. Just like some people like PB sandwiches while others like J sandwiches. However, on the whole, the general public prefers a sufficient amount of both, so I say that both are important. Just how important is moot, and will vary from school to school, so to me they are on equal footing.

IMO, DAT shows mental ability. Cool. Thats needed. GPA shows work ethic, ability to manage time and set priorities. Cool. Thats also needed. I don't see why one is more important than another when you need both to be a solid applicant.

 

[iralex801]

Of course it would be great if the applicant has a high DAT and a high GPA. However, the question OP is asking is if you could have one, but not the other, which would you choose. So, essentially if you could have a high DAT/low GPA or low DAT/high GPA, which would you prefer to have depending on what you "think" is more important.

Or we can use the Bereno analogy and ask: If you didn't have enough money to buy both peanut butter and jelly, would you want a sandwich with just jelly? or a sandwich with just peanut butter? I would personally choose the just peanut butter sandwich lol.

Personally, I believe the DAT is more important. DAT is the only measure that the evaluators (ADCOMs) have that is truly objective. GPA could be skewed depending on various factors (school, how easy your teacher is, how much you suck up to your teachers, how compassionate your teacher is, etc). EC's can be made up and LORs could be written by a family friend. On the other hand, it is impossible to cheat on the DAT and conditions are standardized. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bereno]

Of course it would be great if the applicant has a high DAT and a high GPA. However, the question OP is asking is if you could have one, but not the other, which would you choose. So, essentially if you could have a high DAT/low GPA or low DAT/high GPA, which would you prefer to have depending on what you "think" is more important.

Or we can use the Bereno analogy and ask: If you didn't have enough money to buy both peanut butter and jelly, would you want a sandwich with just jelly? or a sandwich with just peanut butter? I would personally choose the just peanut butter sandwich lol.

Personally, I believe the DAT is more important. DAT is the only measure that the evaluators (ADCOMs) have that is truly objective. GPA could be skewed depending on various factors (school, how easy your teacher is, how much you suck up to your teachers, how compassionate your teacher is, etc). EC's can be made up and LORs could be written by a family friend. On the other hand, it is impossible to cheat on the DAT and conditions are standardized. Just my 2 cents.

Haha, thats fair. In that case I would side with you and choose the PB

 

[deleted323428]

Here let me end this debate really quick.. There are no cut off scores for your GPA at schools there are cut off scores for your DAT at many schools..therefore the DAT is more important.. You can get into dental school with a 2.9 GPA but you can't get into Dental school with a 13 in a subsection

 

[hey123]

I agree! DAT is a standardized measure, whereas GPA is the combination of many factors that others have pointed out previously. IMO, DAT is a more accurate measure for differentiating between candidates.

 

[davaidavai1]

Here let me end this debate really quick.. There are no cut off scores for your GPA at schools there are cut off scores for your DAT at many schools..therefore the DAT is more important.. You can get into dental school with a 2.9 GPA but you can't get into Dental school with a 13 in a subsection

Most schools won't accept you if your GPA falls outside of their range. The ADEA guide lists GPA ranges and averages so if you fall within that range you have a shot, otherwise you probably won't get accepted. I believe the GPA is significantly more important. Average DAT scores don't vary as much from school to school as average GPAs. The ADEA guide paints a picture on how important the GPA is. Plus a higher GPA will compensate for a lower score for most schools i.e. 3.8 GPA with 19 AA = a lot of acceptances. meanwhile a 3.0 GPA and 21AA = a lot less acceptances.

 

[KAIN DDS]

I know it's been asked before, well somewhat, but I was wanting to get some more opinions. I am currently trying to narrow my schools down to apply to but running into conflicting thoughts. My sGPA is 3.42 and oGPA is 3.47, AA/TS/PAT is 20/19/20...when I look at the ADEA book for school stats, I find a few schools that have an average GPA of 3.5-3.6 but AA of 18-19, so I put these on my "maybe" list. Do you think these schools would be in the realm of possibility given my lower than their average GPA but higher DAT?

Really come on ask the schools check predents, think, well rounded always best and most important ! Are u well rounded, do u have research, lors, ps, etc!

 

[KAIN DDS]

Really come on ask the schools check predents, think, well rounded always best and most important ! Are u well rounded, do u have research, lors, ps, etc!

Yr on the cusp

 

[SN1]

This thread is 100% useless. You know why?

people with high DAT scores will say DAT scores are more important

People with high GPA will say GPA is more important.

I think GPA is more important than DAT scores thats because i have a 4.0 GPA.


In my opinion, people who have low GPA and high DAT scores feel the need to study their ass off to get high DAT score since that is the only way to save them. ON the other hand, people with high GPA won't study as much for the DAT because we feel that our GPA is high enough to NOT have to study as hard for the DAT.


THANK YOU VERY MUCh.

 

[yellowishbluish]

they measure different things

gpa's more about work ethic

whereas a standardized test arguably gets closer to a person's potential

adcoms look at both and if not equally at least 60/40 or something

it's not like if one school thinks dats are more important they'd just ignore a ****ty gpa

 

[theleatherwalle]

This thread is 100% useless. You know why?

people with high DAT scores will say DAT scores are more important

People with high GPA will say GPA is more important.

I think GPA is more important than DAT scores thats because i have a 4.0 GPA.


In my opinion, people who have low GPA and high DAT scores feel the need to study their ass off to get high DAT score since that is the only way to save them. ON the other hand, people with high GPA won't study as much for the DAT because we feel that our GPA is high enough to NOT have to study as hard for the DAT.


THANK YOU VERY MUCh.

So lets go through this quote. Alright you claim to have a 4.0 GPA, and I am guessing a low DAT score. Well, let me tell you something about 4.0 GPA people. They are highly dedicated to their work and usually want to score extremely well and will study for everything. If you have a 4.0 GPA and a low DAT. The bottom line is that your school is easy. If you care enough to keep a 4.0 then you will study your ass off to rock the DAT, because that is just the 4.0 GPA mentality. Bottom line your school is easy, your dat is low, and stop making excuses.

 

[punchdrunk7]

Predents are becoming more psycho each and every year! Do your best was the greatest advice I received. If you are accepted great, if not apply again. Hard work pays off!

 

[corymartin2012]

Lower GPA + Super DAT = Probably Acceptance

Lower DAT + Super GPA = Possibly Acceptance

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If in doubt have an amazing DAT and an amazing GPA. Then go and be fruitful and multiply in dental schools across you the nation.

 

[chill45]

Ok well the recent posters in this thread obviously have read the original post. It is asking whether I should apply to schools where my DAT is higher but GPA is lower than average, or where my DAT may be a point or two lower but my GPA is higher. Geeze y'all are ridiculous.

 

[SN1]

So lets go through this quote. Alright you claim to have a 4.0 GPA, and I am guessing a low DAT score. Well, let me tell you something about 4.0 GPA people. They are highly dedicated to their work and usually want to score extremely well and will study for everything. If you have a 4.0 GPA and a low DAT. The bottom line is that your school is easy. If you care enough to keep a 4.0 then you will study your ass off to rock the DAT, because that is just the 4.0 GPA mentality. Bottom line your school is easy, your dat is low, and stop making excuses.

I have not taken the dat but I agree that if u have a high gpa then u should get a decent dat.

 

[Toadesque]

I am gonna call massive BS.

so you got into 8 out of the 10 schools you applied to...right

Also you went to community college which proves my point about GPA being variable.

CC was more difficult than uni in my experience. Basically no curve at my CC in any classes and the exams weren't any easier. In uni it's hard to even get a grade lower than a B- bc of how generous the curves are most of the time. People need to stop with this CC is easy non sense.

 

[CedarZ4]

CC was more difficult than uni in my experience. Basically no curve at my CC in any classes and the exams weren't any easier. In uni it's hard to even get a grade lower than a B- bc of how generous the curves are most of the time. People need to stop with this CC is easy non sense.

Just because an institution is a "university" doesn't mean it's top tier. You could be a university and be "worse" than a CC.

Pace calls themselves a university. They are essentially, a private CC. No offense to the people who went to Pace, but someone who graduates from Pace does not have any bragging rights over someone who went to a CC in my book.

At my school, the only curve I've ever gotten was a 1 point curve on an exam in Orgo. 1 point, and not final grade, an exam grade. What does that equate to? Hmm...

 

[LeeLee92]

Just because an institution is a "university" doesn't mean it's top tier. You could be a university and be "worse" than a CC.

Pace calls themselves a university. They are essentially, a private CC. No offense to the people who went to Pace, but someone who graduates from Pace does not have any bragging rights over someone who went to a CC in my book.

At my school, the only curve I've ever gotten was a 1 point curve on an exam in Orgo. 1 point, and not final grade, an exam grade. What does that equate to? Hmm...

People kill me with that whole community college is easier and university is harder BS. It's NOT. And it surely doesn't make anyone better either. I'm taking a bio class right now at a CC and it is in no way shape or form easy. It's like going through boot camp.

And I've had NO curves given to me either just because it's CC. OMG who thinks of this crap? Just because ppl wanna save money and go there first instead of taking out money they don't have, then obviously the school and the person must be looked down upon? -__- Anyone who thinks like that should be ashamed of themselves.

How hard the class is depends on the professor, not whether it's a CC or university. An education is an education.

 

[larrys]

they are equal, but in the end the DAT is the standardized score and is equal among all applicants.

i would choose the person with the higher dat and lower gpa, than the higher gpa and lower dat, with all things being equal.

also there's no proof, but if i were on the adcom, i would think a higher dat would mean better board scores, since you're probably a better test taker, and thus will look good for the school (my biased opinion since i have a high dat and average gpa)

in the end, it doesn't matter as you try to get both as high as you can and what's done is done.

 

[theleatherwalle]

Anyone care stating what Universities they go to which are apparently easier than community college.

I seriously want to know.

As for what the user about above. I would do the exact same.

 

[Toadesque]

I go to UCI. and yes CC was without a doubt more difficult when it came to science classes

 

[Kahr]

This thread is 100% useless. You know why?

people with high DAT scores will say DAT scores are more important

People with high GPA will say GPA is more important.

I felt the opposıte. I had a faırly hıgh GPA and an average DAT, through the whole process I couldn't stop thınkıng about how that DAT was more ımportant and affectıng my applıcatıon so much more. (I would've gladly traded 0.05 to 0.10 of my GPA for an extra poınt on a few of my DAT sectıons)

I've always thought that the GPA ıs ımportant to have at a certaın level, but that ıt would be the DAT that would make or break you. Even wıth a sub-par GPA a good DAT can save you, wıth a stellar GPA a sub-par DAT can stıll easıly brıng you down.

I suppose each school plays a role ın thıs debate as well though, some seem to gıve more weıght to one or the other.

OP: In your case I thınk you've got pretty average stats overall, and have a faır chance at gettıng ın, but a lot wıll depend on whıch schools and how many you apply to, and the rest of your applıcatıon. To reıterate what I saıd above, I do thınk ın general a strong DAT can posıtıvely overshadow a slıghtly weaker GPA.