Most med schools don't require calculus anymore, right?

[AcornFactory]

I'm not majorly concerned about any of the other med school prerequisites....but calculus scares the **** out of me. I've successfully avoided math entirely unto this point. Now I'm in an algebra class, and that's fine, I'm getting an A; but I honestly think that I'm not capable of going up to the calculus level. I have a 4.0 and I'm pretty sure that'll drop fast if I try to up the ante on my math courses.

I've noticed that most med schools either don't have a math requirement, just have a general "college level math" requirement, or they're totally fine with a student taking two semesters of stats instead of calc. Would I be doing myself any major disservice by not taking calculus? Would I still have a reasonable chance at med school assuming all of the other factors (good MCAT and GPA etc.) are there?

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[Catalystik]

I'm not majorly concerned about any of the other med school prerequisites....but calculus scares the **** out of me. I've successfully avoided math entirely unto this point. Now I'm in an algebra class, and that's fine, I'm getting an A; but I honestly think that I'm not capable of going up to the calculus level. I have a 4.0 and I'm pretty sure that'll drop fast if I try to up the ante on my math courses.

I've noticed that most med schools either don't have a math requirement, just have a general "college level math" requirement, or they're totally fine with a student taking two semesters of stats instead of calc. Would I be doing myself any major disservice by not taking calculus? Would I still have a reasonable chance at med school assuming all of the other factors (good MCAT and GPA etc.) are there?

Last year's list of med schools and their math requirements: http://www.brynmawr.edu/healthpro/documents/USMDSchoolsMathRequirements-May2016.pdf

 

[Lawpy]

Hopefully all schools abandon the calculus requirement and focus on statistics instead. Statistics is significantly more useful than calculus.

 

[AcornFactory]

Last year's list of med schools and their math requirements: http://www.brynmawr.edu/healthpro/documents/USMDSchoolsMathRequirements-May2016.pdf

This is a great reference list. Thanks! It's weird though that they only list three medical schools in California. Those aren't the only allopathic schools right? Keck, Stanford, Irvine, etc....those are definitely all allopathic unless I'm totally off base. Haha. They also say that UCLA requires calc, but when I go to the UCLA site, I can't find any reference to that. Hmm.

 

[Catalystik]

This is a great reference list. Thanks! It's weird though that they only list three medical schools in California. Those aren't the only allopathic schools right? Keck, Stanford, Irvine, etc....those are definitely all allopathic unless I'm totally off base. Haha. They also say that UCLA requires calc, but when I go to the UCLA site, I can't find any reference to that. Hmm.

At the top of the page they discuss their contributing resources and what limited their inclusion of all schools. Some states are completely missing, so it's definitely not all-inclusive, but it's a good start to your further investigation of the issue.

Also, it's the most recent reference I could find. Nothing updated has been produced for the 2017-2018 cycle by that source.

 

[880cylon]

Hopefully all schools abandon the calculus requirement and focus on statistics instead. Statistics is significantly more useful than calculus.

I disagree. Calculus is the language of the universe.

 

[Catalystik]

Hopefully all schools abandon the calculus requirement and focus on statistics instead. Statistics is significantly more useful than calculus.

Be content that the requirement for a full year of Calculus is mostly abandoned.

 

[Lawpy]

I disagree. Calculus is the language of the universe.

Yeah calculus may be fun but for medical school admissions, it definitely shouldn't be required. I doubt calculus plays a significant role in medicine. As a useful tool for medical research and interpreting stuff? Yeah maybe for anyone interested, but requiring applicants to take calculus is excessive.

 

[Lawpy]

Be content that the requirement for a full year of Calculus is mostly abandoned.

That's good. Now they should abandon first semester of calculus.

 

[Catalystik]

That's good. Now they should abandon first semester of calculus.

Clearly, you will not be a candidate for Chief Engineer on the first interstellar voyage. Sad.

 

[Lawpy]

Clearly, you will not be a candidate for Chief Engineer on the first interstellar voyage. Sad.

I like simplifying requirements wherever possible

 

[Catalystik]

I like simplifying requirements wherever possible

I agree with you, but it's too late for me. I had to take a full year of it. Never used it once since then.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I disagree. Calculus is the language of the universe.

Calculus is the language of physics for sure, but calculus is not very useful for most med students or physicians. Statistics, on the other hand, is extremely useful as most med students and/or residents will engage in some sort of research project.

And this is coming from a mathematician.

 

[Gauss44]

I think you are correct about MOST medical schools not requiring calculus, but as you might know, some require it. Harvard does. If there is any school you REALLY want to go to, visit their website to make sure it's not required. If you get stuck with calculus, ask for more advice on here, but what I would do is try to take it at a school with great "free" help like more than enough math help room hours. Maybe audit the class first, and use all the help hours you can get to perfect it, and only after that, take it for a grade.

 

[hellobigcat]

Understanding calculus is vital for higher level statistics courses. I've encountered differentiation and integration in pretty much every higher level BPCM course I took in college, ranging from physics to protein crystallography.

It's all fun and games with lowering standards of admissions until you start accepting people with no prerequisites at all. Lol, I kid.

OP, take statistics for the requirement, but try out a calculus course, you might like it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Understanding calculus is vital for higher level statistics courses. I've encountered differentiation and integration in pretty much every higher level BPCM course I took in college, ranging from physics to protein crystallography.

It's all fun and games with lowering standards of admissions until you start accepting people with no prerequisites at all. Lol, I kid.

OP, take statistics for the requirement, but try out a calculus course, you might like it.

You don't need advanced statistics to do a research project in med school. Not requiring calculus is not lowering admissions standards. It's making them more appropriate. Calculus is very fun and interesting, and I personally don't think you can get a full understanding of the physics in the prereqs without it, but it isn't necessary.

 

[jqueb29]

I disagree. Calculus is the language of the universe.

Calculus has literally zero use for 99.999% of physicians. There's probably like 2 or 3 doctors in the world doing some random thing where calculus is actually useful. Meanwhile, statistics is useful for literally 100% of physicians.

 

[Lawpy]

Understanding calculus is vital for higher level statistics courses. I've encountered differentiation and integration in pretty much every higher level BPCM course I took in college, ranging from physics to protein crystallography.

It's all fun and games with lowering standards of admissions until you start accepting people with no prerequisites at all. Lol, I kid.

OP, take statistics for the requirement, but try out a calculus course, you might like it.

I mean yeah for higher level statistics course. I don't use statistics tables for inference tests since I can just calculate p-values from simply calculating integrals of probability distribution functions. Calculus helps for statistics (and for probability). It helps for upper level science courses in chemistry, physics and engineering. Calculus definitely has a role in medical image processing that's huge for radiology (just as how understanding advanced fluid dynamics helps for designing stents for interventional procedures).

The point is calculus serves as a valuable tool for a lot of fields but that does not justify requiring it for applicants who are not interested. It's an unnecessary hoop to jump through. It's not worth it. Basic statistics is useful to understand research methods and reading/analyzing clinical papers. These clinical research papers are made by research teams that have statisticians at hand to make all useful and math savvy statistical inference tests. Physicians are not required to know this knowledge but it may be useful.

Just because something is useful does not mean it should be required for everyone.

 

[aldol16]

I think you are correct about MOST medical schools not requiring calculus, but as you might know, some require it. Harvard does. If there is any school you REALLY want to go to, visit their website to make sure it's not required. If you get stuck with calculus, ask for more advice on here, but what I would do is try to take it at a school with great "free" help like more than enough math help room hours. Maybe audit the class first, and use all the help hours you can get to perfect it, and only after that, take it for a grade.

Harvard doesn't require calculus. Pathways is the main Harvard MD program and they have a competency-based system of admission and calculus is not one of the requirements. HST is the specialized biomedical research track and it's a much smaller program (roughly 1/5 the size of the Pathways program). HST does require higher-level math through linear algebra and differential equations, mainly because the level of science these students are presumably doing do require a strong understanding of the physical bases of medicine.

 

[aldol16]

Math is the language of science. That's the bare-bones truth. Science would not exist without mathematics. I would argue that a true understanding of chemistry or physics at an undergraduate level cannot be achieved without knowledge of at least differential calculus. You can walk through memorizing a lot of information but then you're not getting at the true beauty of the science. I don't think anybody can appreciate Maxwell's equations fully without knowing integral calculus.

But that's not the question here, I'm sensing. If the question is, would you be doing yourself a disservice in terms of medical school admissions and your future career as a doctor by not taking calculus, I think it can be universally agreed that the answer is no. But if the question is, would you be doing yourself a disservice in terms of fully understanding the material you would be taught in as a chemistry or physics major (and in certain cases, biology major) without taking calculus? My answer is yes.

 

[Gauss44]

Harvard doesn't require calculus. Pathways is the main Harvard MD program and they have a competency-based system of admission and calculus is not one of the requirements. HST is the specialized biomedical research track and it's a much smaller program (roughly 1/5 the size of the Pathways program). HST does require higher-level math through linear algebra and differential equations, mainly because the level of science these students are presumably doing do require a strong understanding of the physical bases of medicine.

I was reading #5 here, Requirements for Admission | HMS If it isn't required, let me know.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I was reading #5 here, Requirements for Admission | HMS If it isn't required, let me know.

5. Computational Skills/Mathematics

All applicants must complete a one year mathematics sequence that contains calculus and statistics. Biostatistics is preferred for the statistics portion of the requirement.

Computational skills are required for contemporary scientific literacy. Although the calculus of derivatives and integration represents important concepts for the precise, quantifiable understanding of dynamic physiological processes and systems, a full year of calculus focusing on the derivation of biologically low-relevance theorems is less important than mastery of more relevant algebraic and trigonometric quantitative skills. Still, to prepare adequately for the quantitative reasoning demands of the contemporary medical curriculum and certain medical specialties, to provide analytic perspective and to appreciate the uncertainties in evaluation of biological systems, students are required to have familiarity with calculus. A broader and more flexible range of requirements is encouraged, however, and, given the importance of statistics for understanding the literature of science and medicine, adequate grounding in statistics is required. Rather than increasing the one year devoted to mathematics preparation, the one-year effort should be more relevant to biology and medicine than the formerly required, traditional, one-year calculus course. Flexibility will be welcome in meeting these requirements (e.g., a semester course in calculus that covers derivatives and integration and a semester course in statistics; a calculus-based physics course and another science course that includes a firm grounding in biostatistics; or, preferably, a unified two-semester course that covers important, biologically relevant concepts in calculus and statistics).

Although a formal year-long course that covers these concepts will meet the mathematics requirement, other innovative approaches (including interdisciplinary courses taught together with biology and biologically relevant physical sciences) that allow students to master these “competencies” are encouraged and will be considered.

Advanced placement calculus credits may satisfy the calculus component of this requirement (Calculus AB and/or Calculus BC). A course in statistics does not satisfy the calculus component of this requirement.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I guess one question is, even if the school does not require calculus, will an unhooked applicant be at a disadvantage if most of the other applicants have taken calculus?

Is it possible that some med schools have removed the requirement to encourage more URM's to apply, but ORMs who have not taken calculus will be at a disadvantage ?

 

[Lawpy]

I guess one question is, even if the school does not require calculus, will an unhooked applicant be at a disadvantage if most of the other applicants have taken calculus?

Is it possible that some med schools have removed the requirement to encourage more URM's to apply, but ORMs who have not taken calculus will be at a disadvantage ?

You only need to complete the prereqs before matriculation. If a school requires it, matriculants can take the class in the spring or summer before orientation.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I was reading #5 here, Requirements for Admission | HMS If it isn't required, let me know.

You will still be close enough to see each other most weekends and you won't have to feel guilty for ignoring each other during the week because you are studying

I guess one question is, even if the school does not require calculus, will an unhooked applicant be at a disadvantage if most of the other applicants have taken calculus?

Is it possible that some med schools have removed the requirement to encourage more URM's to apply, but ORMs who have not taken calculus will be at a disadvantage ?

You only need to complete the prereqs before matriculation. If a school requires it, matriculants can take the class in the spring or summer before orientation.

That doesn't really address my concern.

As an aside...On AMCAS, doesn't the student list what classes they are going to take the following year? Maybe you're suggesting that a student put down that they are going to take calculus the following year, but then never takes it and will not be hurt because it was never a requirement

 

[Lawpy]

That doesn't really address my concern.

As an aside...On AMCAS, doesn't the student list what classes they are going to take the following year? Maybe you're suggesting that a student put down that they are going to take calculus the following year, but then never takes it and will not be hurt because it was never a requirement

It actually does. People apply without completing their prereqs and they still get accepted. Not having completed calculus for schools whose most applicants did complete calculus would not be a disadvantage. There is no requirement to have it completed before applying.

Acceptances are given on the condition that accepted applicants have completed all their prereqs before starting school. The prereqs have to be required by the school. In some cases, accepted applicants can apply for a waiver but whether it will be approved depends on the school.

If a school only recommends applicants to take certain courses, applicants are not obligated to take them and they are not in a disadvantage compared to those who did take them. These courses are only recommended, not required.

 

[TheBiologist]

Yeah calculus may be fun but for medical school admissions, it definitely shouldn't be required. I doubt calculus plays a significant role in medicine. As a useful tool for medical research and interpreting stuff? Yeah maybe for anyone interested, but requiring applicants to take calculus is excessive.

my opinion on this is that mathematics in general may not be directly related to medicine, but it "exercises" the parts of our brain that deal with decision making and problem solving, which are related to medicine. learning calculus helps us think

 

[Lawpy]

my opinion on this is that mathematics in general may not be directly related to medicine, but it "exercises" the parts of our brain that deal with decision making and problem solving, which are related to medicine. learning calculus helps us think

Calculus is useful and has applications. That doesn't justify making it a requirement.

I'll argue philosophy is a lot more useful than calculus for exercising logical and reasoning skills, and yet I see no school requiring it.

 

[aldol16]

I was reading #5 here, Requirements for Admission | HMS If it isn't required, let me know.

"Although a formal year-long course that covers these concepts will meet the mathematics requirement, other innovative approaches (including interdisciplinary courses taught together with biology and biologically relevant physical sciences) that allow students to master these “competencies” are encouraged and will be considered."

Competency-based requirements. As long as you can demonstrate that you fulfill the competency.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

As a radiology resident who took math up to linear algebra, I have never once need to use math more complicated than a log function in my career.

Statistics however, that's something I wish I am better at everyday.

 

[hellobigcat]

Calculus is useful and has applications. That doesn't justify making it a requirement.

I'll argue philosophy is a lot more useful than calculus for exercising logical and reasoning skills, and yet I see no school requiring it.

Ughh. I believe philosophy is just common sense, and there is no standardized way to test proficiency in such a subject. I have the same opinion of all social sciences, but that's just me.

I actually feel that programming would be another useful requirement, that hasn't been added. I really wish that I was more proficient with R and SAS for statistics stuff.

I'm really salty now.

Also, my Zebras have shipped!