Most unpleasant aspects of your job as a pharmacist?

[VeeSee]

Dealing with people

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[Rouelle]

Not being able to do a good job because not enough tech hours

 

[Corpseman]

Dealing with patients like Unchained

 

[Got Em]

Please do shadow. AAs and CRNAs have it pretty nice compared to most pharmacists. My friend, who just graduated, just agreed to an offer of $120k, M-F 8-4, with a 1 hr lunch in Houston, Texas. No weekends. She stated that other places were offering her $170-180k in smaller cities or with a busier schedule. If you're okay with being on call and working weekends, that salary goes much higher than just $120k.

For you to receive an offer like this in pharmacy is very difficult, and you may need to do 1-2 additional years for residency. It's just not worth the 5-6 years to come out and be making much less, unless of course, you're really, really interested in pharmacy. It may be a very bad decision for most people, but hey, you do you.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Please do shadow. AAs and CRNAs have it pretty nice compared to most pharmacists. My friend, who just graduated, just agreed to an offer of $120k, M-F 8-4, with a 1 hr lunch in Houston, Texas. No weekends. She stated that other places were offering her $170-180k in smaller cities or with a busier schedule. If you're okay with being on call and working weekends, that salary goes much higher than just $120k.

For you to receive an offer like this in pharmacy is very difficult, and you may need to do 1-2 additional years for residency. It's just not worth the 5-6 years to come out and be making much less, unless of course, you're really, really interested in pharmacy. It may be a very bad decision for most people, but hey, you do you.

Thanks for responding. The thing is, as you pointed out, in order to get the really high salaries as an AA/CRNA, you have to either work out in the middle of nowhere, or take lots of extra call shifts/OT. However, I'm really set on being able to return to my hometown after graduating, and there, the anesthesia groups start new graduates off at the $120k-$130k you quoted, but that salary actually requires them to work 3 additional OT/call shifts per month. In other words, to make more than $120k-$130k, they'd have to work at least 4 extra shifts per month (I.e., only the 4th shift would count as OT). But like you said.... if someone is willing to live in the boonies (e.g., Wisconsin), then making $170k - $180k isn't unheard of.

You mentioned that it isn't worth spending the extra time in school to become a pharmacist and come out making much less, but don't most pharmacists make $100 - $110k to start? And if a pharmacist chooses (if the opportunity is there) to work 3 extra shifts per month in order to match the work schedule of local AAs/CRNAs, wouldn't that bump the pharmacist's salary to somewhere in the neighborhood of $115k - $120k (I.e., close to the base salary of most anesthetists)? Or is my math off here (seriously -- please do correct my calculations if they're wrong)?

 

[Got Em]

Thanks for responding. The thing is, as you pointed out, in order to get the really high salaries as an AA/CRNA, you have to either work out in the middle of nowhere, or take lots of extra call shifts/OT. However, I'm really set on being able to return to my hometown after graduating, and there, the anesthesia groups start new graduates off at the $120k-$130k you quoted, but that salary actually requires them to work 3 additional OT/call shifts per month. In other words, to make more than $120k-$130k, they'd have to work at least 4 extra shifts per month (I.e., only the 4th shift would count as OT). But like you said.... if someone is willing to live in the boonies (e.g., Wisconsin), then making $170k - $180k isn't unheard of.

You mentioned that it isn't worth spending the extra time in school to become a pharmacist and come out making much less, but don't most pharmacists make $100 - $110k to start? And if a pharmacist chooses (if the opportunity is there) to work 3 extra shifts per month in order to match the work schedule of local AAs/CRNAs, wouldn't that bump the pharmacist's salary to somewhere in the neighborhood of $115k - $120k (I.e., close to the base salary of most anesthetists)? Or is my math off here (seriously -- please do correct my calculations if they're wrong)?

How many shifts do you have to do per month and how long are they? Also, is this a situation where you do 8-4 M-F, with 4 additional shifts/call that may be overnight? We probably need more information to know how good or bad your situation is in your home town.

Pharmacist pay can vary, but most retail would pay you about $110-130k for 40 hours of work. The problem is that if you're working for CVS or Wag, you'll be doing 8-4 one day and 2-10 another day, with usually every other or every 3rd weekend. There are plenty of variations with 9-9s, 8-10s (14 hrs), etc, but the point is that it is very difficult to find a 8-4 job for most days. The schedule will be usually better with AAs/CRNAs.

The average salary for CRNAs was $189k per Merritt Hawkins 2-3 years ago. MGMA's 2014 data showed CRNAs/AAs to be making a median of $160-175k, so $120-130k is on the very, very low end, where most have either a great schedule, or a very desirable location. I'm just surprised that you'd have to do 4 extra shifts/call to get to 120-130k.

 

[Got Em]

I forgot to point out that staff pharmacist pay in retail does not increase with experience. It actually may hinder you to have many years of experience. Many DMs want to have "fast" pharmacists, so the older, more experienced ones may be less desirable.

Also, you forgot about opportunity cost. If you go to pharmacy school, that's at least 4 years of your salary that you'll forgo, with an additional year or two for taking the PCAT and getting through the application process. After taxes, you'll be looking at more than half a million of salary that would be compounding in interest all these years. You'll also be paying tuition, living poorly, and studying again for the prime years of your life. I haven't even mentioned the saturation that's very prevalent in pharmacy. Just take a look at all these posts on here lol.

 

[PAtoPharm]

How many shifts do you have to do per month and how long are they? Also, is this a situation where you do 8-4 M-F, with 4 additional shifts/call that may be overnight? We probably need more information to know how good or bad your situation is in your home town.

Pharmacist pay can vary, but most retail would pay you about $110-130k for 40 hours of work. The problem is that if you're working for CVS or Wag, you'll be doing 8-4 one day and 2-10 another day, with usually every other or every 3rd weekend. There are plenty of variations with 9-9s, 8-10s (14 hrs), etc, but the point is that it is very difficult to find a 8-4 job for most days. The schedule will be usually better with AAs/CRNAs.

The average salary for CRNAs was $189k per Merritt Hawkins 2-3 years ago. MGMA's 2014 data showed CRNAs/AAs to be making a median of $160-175k, so $120-130k is on the very, very low end, where most have either a great schedule, or a very desirable location. I'm just surprised that you'd have to do 4 extra shifts/call to get to 120-130k.

Basically, it's always been common for CRNAs/AAs to have to take call (I.e., work extra shifts). So in my hometown, for example, most of the anesthetists have had to work those extra 3-4 shifts per month for many years. However, the catch is that they used to be considered (and therefore paid) as OT shifts, and about a year ago, the anesthesia group (I.e., the boss) basically decided that the anesthetists would still have to work those 3-4 call shifts every month... but now, the difference is that they're no longer paid OT for working them. In other words, the extra shifts are now considered to be part of their salaries. So in order to earn OT, they have to work additional shifts beyond those 3 or 4 call shifts.

Also, another issue is that I have very specific location preferences, and after having lived out-of-state to attend AA school for the last few months, I can say without a doubt that I don't want to live here on a long-term basis. In fact, I hate living away from my hometown so much that I'll say that if I actually make it to the end of AA school and have to live in a city/town/state I don't want to live in, I will pursue another career anyways (and at that point, I'll have ~$200k in debt to pay back). Or, to put it another way, I don't want to do this kind of work (anesthesia) badly/passionately enough to be willing to live in an area that I absolutely despise.

The reason I stated the above regarding location preferences is because AAs aren't really hired in my hometown (it's basically a matter of "policy"), so the chances are very slim that I'll ever be able to return home. Now, I realize that there's also no guarantee that I'll be able to return home as a pharmacist, but the chances of it happening would be MUCH higher as a pharmacist. If I do a random search on Indeed.com for pharmacist jobs in my hometown, there's almost always a mix of 15-20 open FT/PT/floater positions for pharmacists. So even if the market gets saturated at some point over the next few years, there's still a good likelihood that something will open-up eventually due to retirements, turnover, etc. On the other hand, I might never get to return home as an AA.

BTW -- I'm definitely apprehensive about the oversupply issue in the pharmacy job market, but you'd be surprised to learn that a massive oversupply of CRNAs has been predicted by a large healthcare statistics group (RAND) to occur very soon. Apparently, according to the study, there are now so many CRNA programs pumping out graduates that if things don't slow down within the next few years, there will be an oversupply of at least 10,000 (jobless) CRNAs by 2018 - 2020. To give you an idea of how things are, there are more than 10 CRNA programs in the state of FL alone. It sounds like both professions (pharmacy and anesthesia) have gotten carried away with opening school after school. :/

 

[gwarm01]

It's not too surprising. Everyone I know that's interested in nursing plans to either become an ARNP or CRNA. The funny thing is we still struggle to keep enough quality RNs around, so they are offered plenty of bonuses and overtime.

There just aren't that many positions available. Out hospital employs hundreds of nurses and maybe 10 nurse practitioners.

 

[W19]

The Golden days for CRNA and even Anesthesiologists are over... When I worked in the OR a few years ago, I know a couple of CRNA who were making 250k+/year by just picking a couple of extra shifts or having another part time job... One gas doc i know was making 450k+/year and had 10 weeks vacation... With CRNA schools pumping new grad into the market and AMA companies buying these groups, a lot of things have changed...

 

[PAtoPharm]

The Golden days for CRNA and even Anesthesiologists are over... When I worked in the OR a few years ago, I know a couple of CRNA who were making 250k+/year by just picking a couple of extra shifts or having another part time job... One gas doc i know was making 450k+/year and had 10 weeks vacation... With CRNA schools pumping new grad into the market and AMA companies buying these groups, a lot of things have changed...

Yep, those are all good points; however, depending on someone's perspective, I think being a CRNA/AA can still be a good gig, especially if they enjoy the work. The reason I say that is because, even though things have tightened up over the last few years, anesthesia still offers a good "bang for the buck" in the sense that you're still able to make $110k - $130k to start with a 2 - 2.5 year-long master's degree. You also mentioned something that a lot of people aren't aware of, which is the fact that lots and lots of anesthesia groups are being bought-out by corporate anesthesia companies that offer lower salaries, less vacation time, and worse/less benefits. In other words, many of the same kinds of issues that have occurred in the pharmacy profession over the last decade or so that folks on here tend to complain about are also occurring in the anesthesia profession.

I guess what it really comes down to is answering the question of what someone would enjoy doing. It will definitely be interesting to see how my shadowing experiences go in a couple weeks. I'm going to talk to and spend the day shadowing a pharmacist who owns his own pharmacy, as well as a retail pharmacist or two for a potentially more "realistic" experience...

 

[W19]

Yep, those are all good points; however, depending on someone's perspective, I think being a CRNA/AA can still be a good gig, especially if they enjoy the work. The reason I say that is because, even though things have tightened up over the last few years, anesthesia still offers a good "bang for the buck" in the sense that you're still able to make $110k - $130k to start with a 2 - 2.5 year-long master's degree. You also mentioned something that a lot of people aren't aware of, which is the fact that lots and lots of anesthesia groups are being bought-out by corporate anesthesia companies that offer lower salaries, less vacation time, and worse/less benefits. In other words, many of the same kinds of issues that have occurred in the pharmacy profession over the last decade or so that folks on here tend to complain about are also occurring in the anesthesia profession.

I guess what it really comes down to is answering the question of what someone would enjoy doing. It will definitely be interesting to see how my shadowing experiences go in a couple weeks. I'm going to talk to and spend the day shadowing a pharmacist who owns his own pharmacy, as well as a retail pharmacist or two for a potentially more "realistic" experience...

It is obvious from your posts that you don't like anesthesia... Shadow pharmacists both in the hospital and retail settings, and if you like what they do and can see yourself doing it for 20+ years, cut you loss now and move one...

 

[W19]

Another thing you should consider is that if anesthesiologist salary continues taking hit to the point that it gets to 200k-250k/year, these AMA companies might not have the incentive to hire CRNAs/AA since they can get a doc who can do everything for the 'cheap'...

 

[PAtoPharm]

It is obvious that you don't like anesthesia... Shadow pharmacists both in the hospital and retail settings, and if you like what they do and can see yourself doing it for another 20+ years, cut you loss now and move one...

We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks. I figure I might as well give it a few more weeks or so since I apparently wouldn't receive any sort of tuition refund if I dropped at this point anyways. I've heard other people say that lots of students have gone through a "phase" of thinking that they've made the wrong choice, don't like what they're doing, etc., but that their attitudes change after giving it some time and trying to build more confidence. I just don't want to make the wrong choice, regardless of whether that would be transitioning to pharmacy or continuing on the path I'm on now...

 

[W19]

We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks. I figure I might as well give it a few more weeks or so since I apparently wouldn't receive any sort of tuition refund if I dropped at this point anyways. I've heard other people say that lots of students have gone through a "phase" of thinking that they've made the wrong choice, don't like what they're doing, etc., but that their attitudes change after giving it some time and trying to build more confidence. I just don't want to make the wrong choice, regardless of whether that would be transitioning to pharmacy or continuing on the path I'm on now...

These people might be right because the 'schooling' might be totally different from what you will do on the job... I am in med school now and I am not enjoying it that much, but I know I will probably enjoy being a physician ...

All I can tell you from my limited OR experience, it is not easy dealing with surgeons and a lot of these guys are dingus...

 

[Digsbe]

We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks. I figure I might as well give it a few more weeks or so since I apparently wouldn't receive any sort of tuition refund if I dropped at this point anyways. I've heard other people say that lots of students have gone through a "phase" of thinking that they've made the wrong choice, don't like what they're doing, etc., but that their attitudes change after giving it some time and trying to build more confidence. I just don't want to make the wrong choice, regardless of whether that would be transitioning to pharmacy or continuing on the path I'm on now...

I think almost everyone hits a phase like that. I've hit it before and seriously questioned why I'm in pharmacy (which was in P3 year). I kept thinking what if I went to NP/PA/MD/DO school since the more I thought about it the more I wanted to be a primary provider with seeing patients, managing/prescribing meds, critically thinking through a case, etc. I still think about that as well.

At some point though you also have to weigh in why you work, and that's to earn money. It's not always bad to compromise on your dreams or whims and just go for the cash and let your hobbies and any free time be what brings you joy in life and not work. I think many hit the "phase" when reality hits that what schools say or what your view of the job looks like isn't all roses and perfection. You'll have to do tasks on any job that you hate, in medicine I see the docs documenting hours each day writing up notes/chart stuff and having to review others. I was with an attending once and she had a screen full of notes she had to review/sign. If I did medicine I know I'd very much dislike the clerical/paperwork type stuff that is becoming ever increasingly prevalent, not to mention the rarity of an actual 40 hr (or even 50 hr) workweek. There will be aspects about any job you'll hate, and I think when we realize that it makes us second guess. Don't fall prey into thinking there is a "perfect" job anywhere because there isn't. My only advice is don't live life for your job and compromise with the fact that there will be things you are forced to do that you hate. Go to pharmacy school if it's your calling and you'll know you'll be happy, but don't also think there is any "perfect" job out there.

 

[83ky]

Well, now that hydro has gone c2 most of my day is spent counting and calling on past due and script sync sign ups sounds exciting Hugh?..

 

[PAtoPharm]

I think almost everyone hits a phase like that. I've hit it before and seriously questioned why I'm in pharmacy (which was in P3 year). I kept thinking what if I went to NP/PA/MD/DO school since the more I thought about it the more I wanted to be a primary provider with seeing patients, managing/prescribing meds, critically thinking through a case, etc. I still think about that as well.

At some point though you also have to weigh in why you work, and that's to earn money. It's not always bad to compromise on your dreams or whims and just go for the cash and let your hobbies and any free time be what brings you joy in life and not work. I think many hit the "phase" when reality hits that what schools say or what your view of the job looks like isn't all roses and perfection. You'll have to do tasks on any job that you hate, in medicine I see the docs documenting hours each day writing up notes/chart stuff and having to review others. I was with an attending once and she had a screen full of notes she had to review/sign. If I did medicine I know I'd very much dislike the clerical/paperwork type stuff that is becoming ever increasingly prevalent, not to mention the rarity of an actual 40 hr (or even 50 hr) workweek. There will be aspects about any job you'll hate, and I think when we realize that it makes us second guess. Don't fall prey into thinking there is a "perfect" job anywhere because there isn't. My only advice is don't live life for your job and compromise with the fact that there will be things you are forced to do that you hate. Go to pharmacy school if it's your calling and you'll know you'll be happy, but don't also think there is any "perfect" job out there.

Thanks for the advice. I think what makes the decision difficult for me is that I came so close to deciding to pursue pharmacy in the past, and it seems to be becoming clear to me that I chose the route I chose (I.e., anesthesia) over pharmacy for the wrong reasons -- somewhat higher income, maybe an additional 1-2 weeks of PTO, shorter overall path, etc. The thing is, anesthesia is very critical care-oriented, and I'm just not sure if I'm the kind of person who really makes a good fit for this kind of work. Heck, even some of my family members said they always thought pharmacy was a better fit for me when I told them recently that I might have to pursue a different path. Either way, I'm looking forward to doing some shadowing in a couple of weeks...

 

[knight on horse]

Retail is
Constant interruptions
menial work
Not enough sleep
Low prestige
Low opportunity for advancement
Working weekends and holidays

The constant loading of the working memory, that which comprises integral parts of the executive functions and which the rich and powerful rely on to achieve their goals, is the most damning

Of course, if pharmacist is the be all end all that you could be, then congrats I guess

 

[rxlea]

When nurses tell me they can't get something out of Pyxis or Omnicell.

 

[panasoniku]

Politicking with MBAs that are not trained in healthcare

 

[radio frequency]

You think I haven't had pharmacists pick up shifts here? All the negative ones are horrible to work with. You guys continue to bitch about retail and I'll continue to enjoy it.

I enjoy retail myself, but your attitude is insufferable. To say there are no downsides is laughable. Of course there are downsides. It's a job. Not a bad one, but you needn't be so self righteous about what terrible pharmacists everyone else is because they see good and the bad.

 

[radio frequency]

I would say the worst part of my job is working with incompetent techs or floats and dealing with unexpectedly rude patients. Most techs are good, but it can be hard -- we do not pay enough to keep really fabulous techs. Our local hospital offers much better pay and benefits and is a huge employer, so good techs have little incentive to work for us. I try to have a good comeback when patients are rude and ask them where I can transfer their prescriptions to, but sometimes they catch me off guard. That's frustrating.

The best part of the job is actually feeling like you make a difference. It doesn't happen everyday, but when it does, it's gratifying.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I enjoy retail myself, but your attitude is insufferable. To say there are no downsides is laughable. Of course there are downsides. It's a job. Not a bad one, but you needn't be so self righteous about what terrible pharmacists everyone else is because they see good and the bad.

Lol you don't see any topics about the best part of your job. This forum has turned into a bitch-fest.

I'll answer the question though, the worst part is working weekends.

 

[radio frequency]

Lol you don't see any topics about the best part of your job. This forum has turned into a bitch-fest.

I'll answer the question though, the worst part is working weekends.

See my post above for the best parts of my job. There are great things about the job, I just think it's naïve to say that everybody else must be an incompetent pharmacist if they have any gripes whatsoever.

 

[wagrxm2000]

See my post above for the best parts of my job. There are great things about the job, I just think it's naïve to say that everybody else must be an incompetent pharmacist if they have any gripes whatsoever.

I agree that I shouldn't, just based on all my years, the ones that bitch are the bad ones. The hard working ones seem to enjoy themselves more.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Dealing with patients who seemingly waste the time of the pharmacist (I.e. Irrelevant questions having nothing to do with health/science/medicine/insurance/Doctor calls/etc., wanting me to be cashier to store front items or do any other solely store front tasks, & most irritating...wanting me to do math/economics for their purchases). Getting treated like I am a cashier because patients can not read a name tag (everyone wears white coats, which is insulting for any one having to work their way into a White Coat ceremony).

Constant interruptions...literally I am so hesitant to walk outside the pharmacy because all what people will do is interrupt me mid-sentence to ask something. Society has no patience/manners, ADHD, &/or Tourretes Syndrome.

Finally, the obvious, getting treated constantly with disrespect for things outside of my control...prior authorizations, meds not called in, medication prices, violation of state laws for controls, etc.

I have absolutely no hang ups about working anytime of day weekday, weekend, holiday, etc. yet receive no gratitude for being there to help others at "inconvenient" hours.