My views on the Podiatry Admission Process

[Mr.Happy]

I'm not interested in becoming a podiatrist. I'm a pre-med student applying for MD/DO programs in the current cycle. I know that a lot of pre-med students like to mock pre-podiatry students for their low MCAT scores, low GPA etc. I consider such behavior to be juvenile and unnecessary and I am not of those insecure people who feel the need to put down others to make themselves feel better. I respect podiatrists and believe they play a valuable role in the healthcare spectrum.

That being said, I think there are some serious problems with the podiatry admissions process. The fact that podiatric medical schools accept students with below 20 MCAT score and below 3.0 GPA on a regular basis is shocking and unacceptable. Yes, I know that the average MCAT score of accepted applicants ranges from a 22-23, depending on the school. However even 22-23 scores are not acceptable. When you consider that that the national average MCAT score is 25 and the average MCAT score of applicants accepted to MD programs is 31, you can see a huge discrepancy. By having such low admissions standards, podiatric medical schools are sending out the message that podiatrists are comprised of below average, less capable students, which is not true.

I know a lot of students who join podiatry programs with low MCAT scores are not stupid or dumb, they just didn't bother studying for the MCAT because they didn't have to. And why should they when pod schools have such low standards? Frankly such low standards are an embarrassment to all current and upcoming pods. They are the reason why pods are not given their fair share of respect in the medical community, despite going through a grueling medical school and residency process. Is that fair?

I don't think so. I urge all attending pods, pod residents, pod students, and pre-pod students to email pod school admissions offices and urge them to increase their admissions standards. At the very least, increase their MCAT average to 25-26. One of the problems is that there simply isn't enough demand for all the pod school seats available but pod schools still want to make a lot of money, that's why admissions standards are so low.

Pods, it's in your best interests to have the admissions standards raised, I hope you all realize that. I wish the best for the excellent field of podiatry.

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[ezking]

Bro, I scored higher on the MCAT than you.

 

[WayneLarry]

Instead of posting this on the message board, why don't you just write to the schools themselves. I mean really who are you trying to reach?

 

[Mr.Happy]

Bro, I scored higher on the MCAT than you.

I'm glad to hear it. You further support my argument that podiatrists are not below average or dumb. Now tell me why you wouldn't want the admissions standards increased?

 

[Mr.Happy]

Instead of posting this on the message board, why don't you just write to the schools themselves. I mean really who are you trying to reach?

No need to be defensive or hostile. The reason I didn't write to the schools is because I support the pod students, not the school. Some of the pod schools remind me of the Carib MD schools, who will accept almost anyone with a pulse and a checkbook. It's in the interest of the pod schools to have low admissions standards, so they can enroll more students and make more money. I don't think that's acceptable, do you?

 

[WayneLarry]

I think if you want to change something, contact the people who can make the change.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I think if you want to change something, contact the people who can make the change.

The people who can make the change is the pod community. Enough pressure from the pod community will force pod schools to raise admission standards.

 

[WayneLarry]

Lol

 

[el_duderino]

For the OP:

 

[Mr.Happy]

For the OP:

How so? I'm not sure I understand.

 

[el_duderino]

Because this post comes across as extremely condescending. You know nothing about podiatry, podiatry school, the practice of podiatry, or the state of the industry. It's very patronizing for you, as a pre-med with no actual interest in podiatry, to come into a podiatry forum and tell people here how their industry should be run just because candidates for your type of school have higher MCAT scores than candidates for theirs.

Posting this was just a terrible idea all around. MYOB and focus on getting into school with your own well-below-median MCAT and 3.0 graduate GPA. You don't get to pass judgment on how podiatry schools operate just because you're pre-Caribbean.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Because this post comes across as extremely condescending. You know nothing about podiatry, podiatry school, the practice of podiatry, or the state of the industry. It's very patronizing for you, as a pre-med with no actual interest in podiatry, to come into a podiatry forum and tell people here how their industry should be run just because candidates for your type of school have higher MCAT scores than candidates for theirs.

Posting this was just a terrible idea all around. MYOB and focus on getting into school with your own well-below-median MCAT.

I think it's patronizing and ignorant of you to assume that I know nothing about podiatry. My aunt and uncle are podiatrists and my cousin is a pod student. I also have friends who are both pre-pod and in pod school too. I also shadowed a pod while in high school because I was considering pod school at that time. I think I probably know more about podiatry, podiatry school, and the podiatry industry than you do.

So as you now know, I have a lot more ground to stand upon than you think. My opinion is based upon the experiences of people in the industry, so to speak. They are not based on my non-existent experiences in podiatry.

You know the difference between me and you? I don't feel the need to make mean-spirited potshots at people who have a different opinion than my own.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Because this post comes across as extremely condescending. You know nothing about podiatry, podiatry school, the practice of podiatry, or the state of the industry. It's very patronizing for you, as a pre-med with no actual interest in podiatry, to come into a podiatry forum and tell people here how their industry should be run just because candidates for your type of school have higher MCAT scores than candidates for theirs.

Posting this was just a terrible idea all around. MYOB and focus on getting into school with your own well-below-median MCAT and 3.0 graduate GPA. You don't get to pass judgment on how podiatry schools operate just because you're pre-Caribbean.

Secondly, I'm not pre-Caribbean. I'm just thinking of applying to the well known Carib schools because like you mockingly pointed out, I have a low grad GPA and MCAT score. By the way, I hope my low stats made you feel better about yourself.

Also, I have a right to state my opinion, you can't stop me. Feel free to not read it but here's one quick life lesson, people will say and do things that you disagree with, deal with it buster.

I've been civil and polite this whole time. I genuinely want what's best for pods because I come from a family of pods. I have immense respect for the field of podiatry.

 

[el_duderino]

All right then. I look forward to the happy, productive discussion.

 

[WayneLarry]

I think it's patronizing and ignorant of you to assume that I know nothing about podiatry. My aunt and uncle are podiatrists and my cousin is a pod student. I also have friends who are both pre-pod and in pod school too. I also shadowed a pod while in high school because I was considering pod school at that time. I think I probably know more about podiatry, podiatry school, and the podiatry industry than you do.

So as you now know, I have a lot more ground to stand upon than you think. My opinion is based upon the experiences of people in the industry, so to speak. They are not based on my non-existent experiences in podiatry.

You know the difference between me and you? I don't feel the need to make mean-spirited potshots at people who have a different opinion than my own.

then why are you posting your concerns about the "podiatry industry" in a pre-pod forum? you're just blowing smoke here. how are pre-pods going to change anything?

 

[Mr.Happy]

the particular forum is


then why are you posting your concerns about the "podiatry industry" in a pre-pod forum? you're just blowing smoke here. how are pre-pods going to change anything?

Imagine for a moment. Imagine if pod admissions offices started receiving thousands upon thousands of emails from pre-pods, pods, and anyone else in the pod industry. Emails telling the admissions office to increase the pod admissions standards. What do you think will happen? Pre-pods are a part of the pod industry, never forget that. What happens in the pod industry is equally as important for pre-pods because the pre-pods are the ones who invests a lot of money in their future in the pod industry.

 

[el_duderino]

Imagine for a moment. Imagine if pod admissions offices started receiving thousands upon thousands of emails from pre-pods, pods, and anyone else in the pod industry. Emails telling the admissions office to increase the pod admissions standards. What do you think will happen? Pre-pods are a part of the pod industry, never forget that. What happens in the pod industry is equally as important for pre-pods because the pre-pods are the ones who invests a lot of money in their future in the pod industry.

Looks like you've really thought this through.

 

[ToeTickler323]

This is one of the most pointless posts I've seen on SDN in awhile. OP you have no clue how professional medical schools operate, let alone professional podiatry schools. If you think these programs care about your concerns for the "industry" you're sadly mistaken. Your post has no other point than to get a raise from the people actually interested podiatry. I'm only wasting my time responding because there's a break in World Cup action. Who are you to determine what is acceptable in terms of admission standards? The more I respond the more ridiculous your post seems. A person not interested in podiatry, slamming podiatry, looking to make their lack luster admission stats hurt just a little less. Your story is played out bro and I'd be willing to bet my MCAT score was higher than yours also.

 

[itsallgood19]

Why are you wasting your time discussing Podiatry admissions standards when you aren't even gonna go through the process of applying and enrolling in a school? It's just so unnecessary dude, seriously don't waste your breath over here.

You are better off posting in the forums that are relevant to you.

 

[heybrother]

I wouldn't get riled. I think he's an idealist. Unfortunately, emails won't keep the lights on.

Op - here's a few thoughts for you.
(1) What is the ratio of applicants to matriculants at podiatry schools? Do you know what the current marketing strategy the powers that be intend to pursue?
(2) How do podiatry schools generate revenue? What podiatry schools are affiliated with other institutions and what are entirely stand-alone?
(3) At what point do podiatry schools fill their classes?

 

[WayneLarry]

What do you think will happen?

nothing. the standards are fine

Imagine for a moment. Imagine if pod admissions offices started receiving thousands upon thousands of emails from pre-pods, pods, and anyone else in the pod industry. Emails telling the admissions office to increase the pod admissions standards. What do you think will happen? Pre-pods are a part of the pod industry, never forget that. What happens in the pod industry is equally as important for pre-pods because the pre-pods are the ones who invests a lot of money in their future in the pod industry.

the standards are the way they are because of the limited scope of the field. raising the standards aren't going to do squat for pod salaries at the end of the day. and if you care about your MD or DO friends not respecting you, merely changing requirements changes nothing. nobody here is writing a letter to pod schools to "please raise the standards"

 

[SuperFeisty]

While it's nice to be from a podiatry family, it really has nothing to do with admissions or the schools themselves. If the minimum MCAT and GPA were raised; a lot of schools would go out of business. Podiatry schools are not cash cows. The reason for low entrance admissions is simply the lack of awareness of podiatry. However, I do believe that as podiatry is growing: every year's incoming class's stats have improved.

 

[Mr.Happy]

This is one of the most pointless posts I've seen on SDN in awhile. OP you have no clue how professional medical schools operate, let alone professional podiatry schools. If you think these programs care about your concerns for the "industry" you're sadly mistaken. Your post has no other point than to get a raise from the people actually interested podiatry. I'm only wasting my time responding because there's a break in World Cup action. Who are you to determine what is acceptable in terms of admission standards? The more I respond the more ridiculous your post seems. A person not interested in podiatry, slamming podiatry, looking to make their lack luster admission stats hurt just a little less. Your story is played out bro and I'd be willing to bet my MCAT score was higher than yours also.

Your reply is defensive, hostile, and juvenile and it doesn't address my points at all. I'm certainly not the one who should decide the admissions standards for any professional school but I think most people would agree with me that the admissions standards for podiatry schools are lower than that of other professional schools despite the fact that podiatry school is as rigorous and demanding as MD/DO schools. In fact many pod students share basic science classes with MD/DO students!! So why the discrepancy in admissions standards? Is it fair that pods are looked down upon in the healthcare industry for their low admissions standards when their actual academic program is as rigorous and challenging as MD/DO programs? Is that fair?

My lackluster admissions stats is not what's sad. What's sad is that my lackluster admission stats would get me into all the pod schools with the highest amount of scholarship possible (remember, I did shadow a pod in high school). That's sad.

If your MCAT score is higher than mine, you further prove my point. Look at my response to ezking.

 

[el_duderino]

What's sad is that my lackluster admission stats would get me into all the pod schools with the highest amount of scholarship possible (remember, I did shadow a pod in high school). That's sad.

And there it is.

 

[itsallgood19]

This is seriously why I cannot stand some MD/DO students and pre-meds. thank god I am not going to a pod school that shares classes with them.

There is honestly no reason for you to be posting in this thread other than to piss people off. Cya.

 

[WayneLarry]

Your reply is defensive, hostile, and juvenile and it doesn't address my points at all. I'm certainly not the one who should decide the admissions standards for any professional school but I think most people would agree with me that the admissions standards for podiatry schools are lower than that of other professional schools despite the fact that podiatry school is as rigorous and demanding as MD/DO schools. In fact many pod students share basic science classes with MD/DO students!! So why the discrepancy in admissions standards? Is it fair that pods are looked down upon in the healthcare industry for their low admissions standards when their actual academic program is as rigorous and challenging as MD/DO programs? Is that fair?

My lackluster admissions stats is not what's sad. What's sad is that my lackluster admission stats would get me into all the pod schools with the highest amount of scholarship possible (remember, I did shadow a pod in high school). That's sad.

If your MCAT score is higher than mine, you further prove my point. Look at my response to ezking.

why the lower standards? one specialty, ONE. why would I apply to pod school over MD/DO if the standards were the same? you have to make the grade for the greater flexibility...some can, some can't.

 

[Mr.Happy]

This is seriously why I cannot stand some MD/DO students and pre-meds. thank god I am not going to a pod school that shares classes with them.

There is honestly no reason for you to be posting in this thread other than to piss people off. Cya.

If I came off as condescending or patronizing, I apologize. As I mentioned in this thread, I come from a pod family, shadowed a pod, and have immense respect for podiatrists. The fact that pod schools have low admission standards is not your fault, so don't feel less or inferior in anyway. Like I mentioned, many incoming pod students have low MCAT scores because they didn't study, not because they have a low IQ.

Anyway, looks like I've upset a lot of pre-pods. That was not my intention. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

 

[Mr.Happy]

why the lower standards? one specialty, ONE. why would I apply to pod school over MD/DO if the standards were the same? you have to make the grade for the greater flexibility...some can, some can't.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't justify lower admission standards by saying that pod school is somehow easier/less than MD/DO schools and then also say that pod school is as rigorous as MD/DO schools and that DPM= MD/DO.

You know, all your responses are making me very upset and sad. I'm going to send this thread link to my aunt, uncle, and grandpa (all practicing pods) and ask their opinion on this issue.

 

[el_duderino]

I would advise against that course of action. Consider the fact that you were unable to foresee the consequences of posting this thread here. You will be no better foreseeing the consequences of showing this post to your relatives.

 

[WayneLarry]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't justify lower admission standards by saying that pod school is somehow easier/less than MD/DO schools and then also say that pod school is as rigorous as MD/DO schools and that DPM= MD/DO.

You know, all your responses are making me very upset and sad. I'm going to send this thread link to my aunt, uncle, and grandpa (all practicing pods) and ask their opinion on this issue.

good luck applying to whatever school you can get into

 

[Mr.Happy]

I would advise against that course of action. Consider the fact that you were unable to foresee the consequences of posting this thread here. You will be no better foreseeing the consequences of showing this post to your relatives.

well my conscience is clear and my intentions were and still are pure and good.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Jonnythan, I admit defeat. I guess I'm just a naive idealist. I will show this thread to my family because I'm not ashamed of what I've done. They at least know me and know that my intentions were good. They know that I have the utmost respect for podiatrists. In retrospect, it is very naive and silly of me to think that pre-pods and pods will just share my logic and therefore send emails to the pod admissions office. Maybe it's true and everything's happening for the best. Maybe I just don't know better.

 

[ezking]

Jonnythan, I admit defeat. I guess I'm just a naive idealist. I will show this thread to my family because I'm not ashamed of what I've done. They at least know me and know that my intentions were good. They know that I have the utmost respect for podiatrists. In retrospect, it is very naive and silly of me to think that pre-pods and pods will just share my logic and therefore send emails to the pod admissions office. Maybe it's true and everything's happening for the best. Maybe I just don't know better.

But bro, I scored higher on the MCAT than you

 

[Robert De Niro]

To the OP,

Ok standards are low, but do you really think it's because admission staffs want to accept students with low GPAs/low MCAT? The answer is no, because they accept students based on the applicant pool that they have in front of them. There are only about 900 TOTAL applicants for all 9 podiatry schools. Here are some numbers: http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/AppStats/Applicant MCAT 2013.pdf

These are number of applicants, not the number of students who matriculate!!! This is because there is a low understanding and knowledge of what podiatrist do, as pointed out by SuperFeisty. To put things into perspective, one MD/DO school receives 1000's of applicants alone. Now who do you think is going to be more competitive, or as you phrased it, "higher application standards." That's right, that one MD/DO schools. The only way for pod schools to increase their "standards" would be to either reduce class sizes (which would mean less money, therefore will not happen), or pray that the number of applicants increases. It's that simple! Until that happens, contacting admission staffs with your concerns will do nothing more then tell them something they already know.

 

[Mr.Happy]

To the OP,

Ok standards are low, but do you really think it's because admission staffs want to accept students with low GPAs/low MCAT? The answer is no, because they accept students based on the applicant pool that they have in front of them. There are only about 900 TOTAL applicants for all 9 podiatry schools. Here are some numbers: http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/AppStats/Applicant MCAT 2013.pdf

These are number of applicants, not the number of students who matriculate!!! This is because there is a low understanding and knowledge of what podiatrist do, as pointed out by SuperFeisty. To put things into perspective, one MD/DO school receives 1000's of applicants alone. Now who do you think is going to be more competitive, or as you phrased it, "higher application standards." That's right, that one MD/DO schools. The only way for pod schools to increase their "standards" would be to either reduce class sizes (which would mean less money, therefore will not happen), or pray that the number of applicants increases. It's that simple! Until that happens, contacting admission staffs with your concerns will do nothing more then tell them something they already know.

then why not reduce class sizes? why this incessant need to make more money? to make more profit? Why even have 9 pod schools when there are only 900 total applicants? looks like pure unbridled greed to me.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Especially since there is a pod residency shortage too. I know my cousin is very worried about securing a pod residency next year.

 

[Robert De Niro]

Because whether you like it or not, if you're not making money you can't operate. The same will be true when you become a physician, and will be required to make money in order to keep your practice operational. That's how the world works!

As for the shortage, we should be a year or two away from eliminating the it, as long as we continue the grow the number spots (over 40 spots generated since 2013). If that growth continues, there should be no reason, other than personal ability/knowledge, preventing a student from obtaining post graduate training.

 

[newfeet]

This is seriously why I cannot stand some MD/DO students and pre-meds. thank god I am not going to a pod school that shares classes with them.

There is honestly no reason for you to be posting in this thread other than to piss people off. Cya.

Exactly I'm glad I went to NYCPM!

 

[itsallgood19]

Exactly I'm glad I went to NYCPM!

Will be attending in the Fall, and couldn't be happier to be attending there!!!

 

[Mr.Happy]

Hope you guys enjoy NYCPM! That's where my aunt met my uncle.

 

[Gigantron]

Secondly, I'm not pre-Caribbean. I'm just thinking of applying to the well known Carib schools because like you mockingly pointed out, I have a low grad GPA and MCAT score. By the way, I hope my low stats made you feel better about yourself.

My lackluster admissions stats is not what's sad. What's sad is that my lackluster admission stats would get me into all the pod schools with the highest amount of scholarship possible (remember, I did shadow a pod in high school). That's sad.

What.

 

[LittleMopeHead]

I'm not interested in becoming a podiatrist. I'm a pre-med student applying for MD/DO programs in the current cycle. I know that a lot of pre-med students like to mock pre-podiatry students for their low MCAT scores, low GPA etc. I consider such behavior to be juvenile and unnecessary and I am not of those insecure people who feel the need to put down others to make themselves feel better. I respect podiatrists and believe they play a valuable role in the healthcare spectrum.

That being said, I think there are some serious problems with the podiatry admissions process. The fact that podiatric medical schools accept students with below 20 MCAT score and below 3.0 GPA on a regular basis is shocking and unacceptable. Yes, I know that the average MCAT score of accepted applicants ranges from a 22-23, depending on the school. However even 22-23 scores are not acceptable. When you consider that that the national average MCAT score is 25 and the average MCAT score of applicants accepted to MD programs is 31, you can see a huge discrepancy. By having such low admissions standards, podiatric medical schools are sending out the message that podiatrists are comprised of below average, less capable students, which is not true.

I know a lot of students who join podiatry programs with low MCAT scores are not stupid or dumb, they just didn't bother studying for the MCAT because they didn't have to. And why should they when pod schools have such low standards? Frankly such low standards are an embarrassment to all current and upcoming pods. They are the reason why pods are not given their fair share of respect in the medical community, despite going through a grueling medical school and residency process. Is that fair?

I don't think so. I urge all attending pods, pod residents, pod students, and pre-pod students to email pod school admissions offices and urge them to increase their admissions standards. At the very least, increase their MCAT average to 25-26. One of the problems is that there simply isn't enough demand for all the pod school seats available but pod schools still want to make a lot of money, that's why admissions standards are so low.

Pods, it's in your best interests to have the admissions standards raised, I hope you all realize that. I wish the best for the excellent field of podiatry.

This is what I get from reading this thread.

"Mr. Happy" is smiling and saying this: I'm a pre-med on the MD/DO route and I respect podiatry, but I have no interest in podiatry. Podiatry students are smart, but lazy. It feels unfair that podiatry schools have such low admission standards for graduates to be so-called "doctors" in the medical field compared to MD/DO, etc. I still respect podiatry though. You guys need to change the admission standards.

All I can say to this is "welcome to the reality" of podiatry. Why are you here? Okay, enough of this thread.

 

[Toadesque]

With the amount of awareness surrounding the profession currently, raising the admission standards would serve no point other than to say, "Hey look at how difficult it is to get in, we're so competitive and prestigious!".

At the end of the day does it really matter if people with rather low stats get in (I think the average stats are a 3.3/23 anyway, it's not like they are letting people in who didn't try at all in undergrad). You can't get through the program and secure a residency unless you know your stuff and have the skills necessary to be successful in a health care profession. The people who aren't cut out for it will be weeded out early on. And honestly anyone who is surprised at the difficulty is pretty oblivious because all you have to do is look at the curriculum, compare it to that of an MD school, and realize it's going to be extremely difficult because of how similar they are. I haven't started yet, but I have plenty of family members in the medical field who have given me plenty of warnings about not slacking off because how fast it hits you.

 

[SLCpod]

It is sad that some schools matriculate students with low stats. It's ONE of the reasons we have residency genesis issues in the first place. There are schools that graduate plus OR minus 10-15 students a year. If the majority of classes graduate more than expected in one year then a shortage occurs. If schools with a larger class size would tighten the admissions process we would see less variation of graduates year to year.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I'm glad that there are some podiatry students such as @SLCpod that agree with my message. I've also received private messages from several pre-pod and pod students who agree with me and share my frustrations on this issue.

 

[Tomoloy]

This really is a simple issue of supply and demand. You are naive to think that you can simply shut down schools just to make podiatry a more competitive field...that is pure ignorance right there. Robert De Niro said it the best.

 

[YeastyMan]

Like my message if you think this is possibly one of the most offensive/condescending threads you have seen.