Nepotism and Family Connections

[charmiedermie]

What if you were the best plumber in town. Your daughter aspires to be a plumber as well. After plumbing school, she wants to come back to her hometown. Would you force her to start her own business and compete with you? Or would you do as 99.9999% of Americans in the same situation do - let her join your business. It used to be respectable to follow in your parents footsteps. Blacksmiths, farmers, woodworkers, etc were all proud to teach their trade to their children, should they wish. Many of our surnames are remnants of that not-so-distant past.onnections and not because of merit. But those are the exception. At our white coat ceremony, the father and mother faculty got to give their children their white coats. I'd imagine it was a moment of great pride for those parents. If you were their I'd bet you'd be cursing those "spoiled brats."

Residency training is a requirement. Joining your dads plumber business asan "attending" is not the same.

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[volcomx]

My wife and I picked up half of my kid’s undergrad and one third of her med school. Merit scholarships, jobs and loans paid the balance.

My daughter went to a very tough college and majored in chemistry. She had a very competitive MCAT score but because she took the toughest possible road her grade point was a little bit below average for people who got into allopathic medical schools. We also live in a state whose allopathic medical schools give seats away to non-residents just to alleviate the boredom of the faculties of those med schools. As a consequence she had all of the odds stacked against her in spite of great letters of recommendation, foreign language proficiency, math and science talent and significant research credits.

On the flip side I have a friend who recently retired as President of a large university which included a medical school. This guy had turned this institution into a powerhouse and was the most powerful man in his community. My daughter applied to this university’s med school and got a secondary application. Her stats were competitive with the people this institution accepted. I will admit that I looked at our address book and telephone every day and thought about calling my friend to intervene to get her an interview. However, I resisted that temptation even though she would have been heartbroken if she hadn’t gotten into an allopathic med school. I knew calling him would be unethical and I didn’t want to be a sleaze bag. She didn’t get the interview there.

Well my daughter got into another allopathic med school. My friend found about her application to med school in our Christmas letter. Because I didn’t want him to feel uncomfortable I have never broached the subject of her admissions travail with him.

My kid will go through life knowing that it was her talent and hard work that got her into med school, residency and fellowship. When she hits the pillow every night she’ll know she did the right thing.

My parents paid for a quarter of undergrad because I got a large scholarship. And no, my daddy didn't phone in the Dean to beg for that scholarship. I earned it by doing well on the SAT and getting straight As in high school.

I too majored in a physical science, and doubled in biology. I worked for a few years after graduating to save up for med school, and when I applied I got a significant merit scholarship. So yeah. Parents don't have to help with med school. Please, go on about how I'm a spoiled brat and how my parents gave me everything.

And now I want to go into gen surg....which is a notoriously grueling 5 yr residency. It'd be nice to be near friends and family during those 5 years. And it's not like I'll be applying with a low pass Step 1....I'm significantly above average. And I have several first author pubs. >90% of people match with my scores and general ECs. I have a shot at A0A. Over the past few years, 123 out of 126 applicants with A0A matched. It's not like I'm shooting for Harvard or something....

"We also live in a state whose allopathic medical schools give seats away to non-residents just to alleviate the boredom of the faculties of those med schools." Lol.

I wonder what your daughter would think if she read some of your posts here. It's possible to discuss and debate nepotism issues without completely embarrassing yourself.

 

[IlDestriero]

Go ahead and let your connections abuse their power. You can then spend the next six years working with people who will know that you got the slot for reasons other than merit. Some of them will believe, like so many of the posters on this thread, that you made the smart move. Other people, who worked for everything they ever attained, will know what you did and think you are a spoiled kid who got everything handed to him. (Let me guess. Your parents picked up the entire college and med school tab.) Those latter people will be pleasant enough to you but they will never respect you.

And then join your father's lucrative practice and live happily ever after, while others rage on the interweb.

When she hits the pillow every night she’ll know she did the right thing.

Just like me.

 

[IlDestriero]

Residency training is a requirement. Joining your dads plumber business asan "attending" is not the same.

Joining the union as an apprentice is pretty much exactly the same as residency.
When Joe the master pipe fitters son applies for membership, nobody whines about it.

 

[volcomx]

Joining the union as an apprentice is pretty much exactly the same as residency.
When Joe the master pipe fitters son applies for membership, nobody whines about it.

Another thing is that a lot of attendings, especially in community residency programs, are essentially volunteering to teach residents for nearly nothing. Some get paid as little as 30k/yr to dedicate significant hours to training and overseeing residents. The attending's time could have been spent making big bucks back in their private practice, but instead they are overlooking residents taking hours on simple cases and correcting their mistakes.

And when the attending's son or daughter applies to their residency program, everyone yells nepotism. The attending has spent 30 yrs training residents for free....but all that is quickly forgotten.

 

[asmallchild]

Another thing is that a lot of attendings, especially in community residency programs, are essentially volunteering to teach residents for nearly nothing. Some get paid as little as 30k/yr to dedicate significant hours to training and overseeing residents. The attending's time could have been spent making big bucks back in their private practice, but instead they are overlooking residents taking hours on simple cases and correcting their mistakes.

And when the attending's son or daughter applies to their residency program, everyone yells nepotism. The attending has spent 30 yrs training residents for free....but all that is quickly forgotten.

Excellent point. I'm not sure if this is true in all other fields but at least in dermatology, there can be a significant difference between private practice and academic pay. Don't like the system? Put your money where your mouth is and stay in academics to change it. As many of my attendings in residency used to tell me, you will quickly find it's significantly more work for significantly less pay. I don't begrudge those in academics trying to give their children a leg up for their sacrifice.

 

[Mad Jack]

The topic is nepotism, not actively networking which we all do.

Cronyism and nepotism are different heads of the same beast. Networking is essentially just trying to make friends and connections that get your application considered above those of equal or greater merit based upon your personal relationship or friendship with the people involved, which is pretty much just cronyism. Personally I think it's all fair, as meritocracy is largely a myth anyways (hence the existence of the phrase, "it's not what you know, it's who you know").

 

[IlDestriero]

I'll share a little academic secret with you. While most academic programs are set up in the traditional manner, with departments and groups being servants to the Dean, tithing their clinical income, etc. to pay for the armies of researchers and what not, some academic practices are essentially private practices. Complete with full academic appointments, "Cadillac" university benefit plans and everything, but completely financially independent. Some very big name systems actually function this way. Those are the academic jobs you really want, and they're, not surprisingly, extremely competitive. All the rewards with limited pain.

 

[reno911]

I'll share a little academic secret with you. While most academic programs are set up in the traditional manner, with departments and groups being servants to the Dean, tithing their clinical income, etc. to pay for the armies of researchers and what not, some academic practices are essentially private practices. Complete with full academic appointments, "Cadillac" university benefit plans and everything, but completely financially independent. Some very big name systems actually function this way. Those are the academic jobs you really want, and they're, not surprisingly, extremely competitive. All the rewards with limited pain.

I'm familiar with some derm programs that run the way you describe, but even they are no match for a private practice (as far as generating revenue is concerned). No matter how independent the department is, the simple fact that they are part of a university adds a non-trivial amount of inefficiency, regulations, and overhead that a real private practice would not have to deal with. As a result, the dermatologist who works in such an environment will still make less money for the same amount of work. Now, if one is academically inclined, then that's a perfectly fine trade-off to make. And while such an arrangement is probably the best an academic dermatologist can hope for, the dermatologist is still paying a price (which one hopes is outweighed by the enjoyment they get from academia).

 

[reno911]

My wife and I picked up half of my kid’s undergrad and one third of her med school. Merit scholarships, jobs and loans paid the balance.

My daughter went to a very tough college and majored in chemistry. She had a very competitive MCAT score but because she took the toughest possible road her grade point was a little bit below average for people who got into allopathic medical schools. We also live in a state whose allopathic medical schools give seats away to non-residents just to alleviate the boredom of the faculties of those med schools. As a consequence she had all of the odds stacked against her in spite of great letters of recommendation, foreign language proficiency, math and science talent and significant research credits.

On the flip side I have a friend who recently retired as President of a large university which included a medical school. This guy had turned this institution into a powerhouse and was the most powerful man in his community. My daughter applied to this university’s med school and got a secondary application. Her stats were competitive with the people this institution accepted. I will admit that I looked at our address book and telephone every day and thought about calling my friend to intervene to get her an interview. However, I resisted that temptation even though she would have been heartbroken if she hadn’t gotten into an allopathic med school. I knew calling him would be unethical and I didn’t want to be a sleaze bag. She didn’t get the interview there.

Well my daughter got into another allopathic med school. My friend found about her application to med school in our Christmas letter. Because I didn’t want him to feel uncomfortable I have never broached the subject of her admissions travail with him.

My kid will go through life knowing that it was her talent and hard work that got her into med school, residency and fellowship. When she hits the pillow every night she’ll know she did the right thing.

This post is so hilariously bad.

1. Majoring in Chemistry at a "tough college", while possibly tougher than average, is nowhere near the "toughest road possible".

2 "We also live in a state whose allopathic medical schools give seats away to non-residents just to alleviate the boredom of the faculties of those med schools."

Seriously? I've heard parents come up with all sorts of theories about why their kids don't achieve/win something which the parent feels they should have. I think it's something all parents do, so I certainly understand. However, your creativity in this regard is quite remarkable.

3. "My kid will go through life knowing that it was her talent and hard work that got her into med school, residency and fellowship. When she hits the pillow every night she’ll know she did the right thing"

Or if she is as smart as you seem to believe, she will realize that she lucked out by having well-educated, rich parents who could provide her with an environment and educational opportunities that poorer parents could not provide. Somewhere out there in the world is probably a kid who could have been just as smart and successful that didn't have the opportunities that you could provide your child. I suppose in your twisted head she should feel really terrible about this.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I will admit that chemistry is not as tough a major as physics or some fields in Engineering but it is tougher than the majors selected by 87% of allopathic matriculants who slither into medical school with toughies like kinesiology and social anthropology,

Apparently some of you believe that state of residence has no effect on medical school admissions. How naive can you be? Here's a link to a Rand Corporation study from the late 1970s that might put your ignorance to rest.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R2014.html

If you think the Rand study is too old to be relevant all you need to see are the wide variations in MCAT score and GPA averages from state to state in Tables 20 and 21 published annually by AAMC. Here's the link.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

The variations in the MCAT and GPA averages are consistent from year to year. God help the applicants from Iowa, Wisconsin. New Hampshire and Rhode Island.

It is true that my wife and I did a fair job of raising our kids. Thanks for noticing. However, providing your kids with a solid home life is socially constructive. Making life easier for your spawn with resources provided by the federal taxpayers is not. .

Apparently my posts have touched many a raw nerve. Feeling guilty, are we? I havern't seen this much butt hurt since Michigan lost to Appalachian State in 2007.

 

[asmallchild]

I'm going to lock the thread since this is no longer productive

Everything that needed to be said has already been said

Life isn't fair, the selection process for dermatology is no different. If you dislike it enough, I highly encourage being part of the solution rather than simply whining on the sidelines.