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New MSAR highs and lows

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by DrMidlife, 05.01.07.

  1. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Most applicants
    11037 GWU
    10501 Drexel
    10032 Boston

    Fewest applicants
    261 U of N Dakota
    281 U of Mississippi
    286 U of Puerto Rico

    Biggest class
    324 U of Illinois (multiple campuses)
    288 Wayne State
    280 Indiana U
    255 (2) Jefferson, Drexel

    Smallest class
    43 Mayo
    51 U of S Dakota
    53 Morehouse

    Highest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
    * this is a MEDIAN not an average *
    3.91 WashU
    3.87 (2) Harvard, Johns Hopkins
    3.85 (3) Baylor, Duke, Mayo

    Lowest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
    * this is a MEDIAN not an average *
    3.38 (2) Universidad Central del Caribe, Howard
    3.46 (2) Meharry, Morehouse

    Highest overall median BCPM of accepted applicants
    * this is a MEDIAN not an average *
    3.91 WashU
    3.87 Johns Hopkins
    3.86 U of Tennessee (likely MSAR typo; see www.utmem.edu/Medicine/Admissions)
    3.85 (2) Harvard, Mayo

    Lowest overall median BCPM of accepted applicants
    * this is a MEDIAN not an average *
    3.15 Universidad Central del Caribe
    3.24 Howard
    3.31 (2) Meharry, Morehouse

    Alleged national MCAT median scores
    * per-section MEDIANS not averages *
    VR10 PS11 BS11 Q

    Highest MCAT composite median of accepted applicants
    * this is a sum of individual section MEDIANS, not a real median or average *
    37Q WashU
    35R Harvard
    35Q 21 schools

    Lowest MCAT composite median of accepted applicants
    * this is a sum of individual section MEDIANS, not a real median or average *
    20 Universidad Central del Caribe
    22 Ponce
    22 U of Puerto Rico

    Highest tuition, public in-state including fees
    31192 Penn State
    30349 U of Minnesota
    30100 U of Virginia

    Lowest tuition, public in-state including fees
    0 USUHS
    8565 U of Puerto Rico
    8649 U of Mississippi
    8994 E. Carolina U

    Highest tuition, OOS including fees
    62447 Medical U of S Carolina
    62122 S Illinois U
    59318 U of S Carolina
    (remember how U of Colorado had 1st yr 72k OOS tuition? It's now 46455)

    Lowest tuition, OOS including fees, actually admits OOS
    0 USUHS
    22457 Texas A&M
    23850 UT Houston
    (next 3 lowest are all TX)

    Highest tuition, private including fees
    45310 Tufts
    44400 Temple (36372 in-state)
    43201 GWU
    42230 Tulane

    Lowest tuition, private including fees
    24848 Baylor (11748 in-state)
    24691 Howard
    28300 Mayo
  2. mongrel

    mongrel Assoc. Prof. Dogsuit

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    Crappandahalf!
  3. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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    Those 21 35Q's were all V11 P12 B12 Q:
    * this are per-section MEDIANS not averages *
    Stanford
    UC San Diego
    UC San Francisco
    UCLA
    Yale
    Emory
    Northwestern
    U of Chicago
    Johns Hopkins
    U of Michigan
    Duke
    Columbia
    Cornell
    Mt. Sinai
    NYU
    Case Western
    U of Pennsylvania
    U of Pittsburgh
    Brown
    Vanderbilt
    Baylor
  4. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran

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    Thanks for the info!

    OOC, do you think its worth buying a new edition if I have last years?
  5. postbacker

    postbacker Removed

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    OP - are those GPA/MCAT stats for "applicants" or "matriculants?" Surely (hopefully) the latter...
  6. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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    Accepted applicants, which is not the same as matriculants. See http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396300 for discussion of why this might matter.

    Good catch, thank you. Original post edited.
  7. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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  8. postbacker

    postbacker Removed

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    The most sobering stat I have seen thus far is the list of schools with a median 35Q...yowser, that should give applicants pause before they throw away a bucket full of app $ on a 31P on what appears to be the USN Top 25, give or take a few...
  9. OncDoc19

    OncDoc19 MS4

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    Holy crap! Almost every school I want to apply to is on that list and I thought my MCAT would be above average :laugh:
  10. searun

    searun

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    So does Harvard just take the Wash U rejects? Or is Harvard the first choice of most of their matriculants?
  11. badasshairday

    badasshairday Account on Hold

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    LOL. That is great. 3 out of the 5 California state medschools have an average MCAT of 35Q. I think someone asked if CA state medschools are hard to get into. There you go buddy. I'm sure that UC Davis and UC Irvine aren't far behind.
  12. crimsonkid85

    crimsonkid85

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    hooooly mother of god. how do people make 3.9's! and that's only the MEDIAN. wow. i don't know how you guys do it! there is no way i can imagine the amount of work going into a 3.9.
  13. g3pro

    g3pro Dr. Mogley

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    You know, you can't just add the individual medians together to get a median total...

    5, 15, 5 = 25
    15, 5, 5 = 25
    15, 5, 5 = 25
    5, 5, 15 = 25 <--- Median
    5, 15, 15 = 35
    15, 15, 15 = 45
    15, 15, 15 = 45

    ---------------
    15, 15, 15 = 45 (by simply adding medians), but the actual median is 25.

    Which is why you shouldn't dwell on the MSAR median statistics. You can't make comparisons when you don't have all the data.

    And having a "Q" writing score is at the upper-tier (80th percentile), but it's not insanely high as would be suggested by the alleged 37 composite score (97th percentile?).


    The lesson learned: don't draw statistical conclusions when you statistically can't make the conclusion. If you have patients someday, it would be awesome if you could extend them that same courtesy.


    EDIT: I noticed that most of you have made that same erroneous statistical conclusion. I guess Nature really was right in its assessment of pre-meds...
  14. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student

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    Crazy people! Are people just getting smarter? Or is the MCAT getting easier? :D
  15. NervousNed

    NervousNed

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    after seeing this, i dont feel bad at all about getting rejected from some of the schools i applied, good lord 35 for 21 schools??????? so what is the new MCAT median for matriculants?
  16. NervousNed

    NervousNed

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    nonetheless, the median, meaning half the students at LEAST had a 35 for 21 schools is signifigant
  17. badasshairday

    badasshairday Account on Hold

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    Seriously what is the new MCAT median for matriculants. 31 or 32!? That would be crazy!
  18. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran

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    bump this question. I am getting scared...
  19. MDAdam

    MDAdam

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    Two comments (directed towards the schools, not intended to get an answer):

    Mayo, why must you only accept 43 students?

    Why not just look at my GPA? Why include the MCAT, WashU, Harvard, Hopkins, Yale?

    *slumps over and waits till MCAT scores come in*
  20. Psycho Doctor

    Psycho Doctor *** Angel

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    that's all that applied total??:eek: how many matriculate/ those seem like the schools to apply to if there's less competition.
  21. Psycho Doctor

    Psycho Doctor *** Angel

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    um i don't think your BCPM GPA: 3.81; Overall GPA 3.75 is exactly easy either. Your stats are fabulous and so are your acceptances; congrats!!!
  22. melissainsd

    melissainsd

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    Yup, not even my 3.96 could overcome my 31Q to with those schools. Oh well.
  23. OncDoc19

    OncDoc19 MS4

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    Your stats were awesome too (not much lower than that 3.9) and you have amazing acceptances! I was wondering if you ever found out why you got rejected from UCSF pre-secondary? You certianly were a very competitive applicant. I am very interested in UCSF for MD/PhD (not a CA citizen) and was wondering if you might be able to provide any insight about their screening processes.
    Thanks!
  24. chickenlittle84

    chickenlittle84

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    okay, but these crazy high numbers that scare me very, very much are for ACCEPTED students. But at some of these schools the numbers for MATRICULATING applicants has to be lower, right? Not for the top schools, but it seems like mid and low tier schools like Drexel and GWU, which got a crazy number of applications, must have accepted a lot of candidates with very high numbers that did not end up matriculating, which would falsely drive up their average?? Does the MSAR list what the school's yield is?

    Also, if someone has the MSAR, do you have the median overall GPA, BCPM, and MCAT for Tufts and GWU???
  25. Headred27

    Headred27 Lucy Lover

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    double bump
  26. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    I just ordered the '08-'09 MSAR. I've gotta see some of this...
  27. sunflwr85

    sunflwr85

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    I can't speak for any school but University of Mississippi, but I know that they only accept in state applicants for a class size of about 100 or 110. It's kind of frustrating going to school in the state but being out of state, because it seems like all my friends who are from MS just applied and were immediately accepted due to the lack of competition in the application process there... Oh well. (not to say they weren't qualified, but I'm no less qualifed and have had significantly more difficulty securing an acceptance, even with my own state schools.)
  28. notgettingin

    notgettingin

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    I choose to focus on the positive, and that is that I got an interview at Drexel out of that many applicants

    And please no-one point out the obvious, that many stellar applicants probably were not interviewed because the school figured they wouldn't attend anyway...let me live in my fantasy world :D
  29. mvenus929

    mvenus929

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    That's cause the policy used to be that you were OOS for one year, then you got residency status. Now you have to pay OOS tuition all four years. Makes it nice for those of us that are residents...
  30. enigma85

    enigma85

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    No. Calm down folks. Reread the post by g3pro. You CANNOT just add up the medians from individual MCAT sections and add them up to create a median overall score. Most of the 21 schools you think have a median of 35 probably have a median of somewhere between 32-34.
  31. nick_carraway

    nick_carraway

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    You and g3pro make me happy.
  32. moto_za

    moto_za Member

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  33. silverlining1

    silverlining1

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    This is frightening. I'm getting my MCAT score back in about a week, and I am going to be so worried if I don't meet the median...
  34. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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    That's why I said composite median, not overall median. I added up the section medians, and didn't pretend to do otherwise. If you've seen an MSAR, you know what data is in it and what's not. The actual real useful numbers simply aren't available.

    Original post edited to clarify.
  35. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    New highs: Number of applicants, GPA/MCAT required to get into medical school
    New lows: Acceptance rate to medical school, my confidence
  36. pennybridge

    pennybridge Removed

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    new low: apparently SDN's reading comprehension skills
  37. enigma85

    enigma85

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    Yes, I was not commenting on your original post, just the following ones by people who incorrectly assumed that the 21 schools listed have a median MCAT of 35. People on SDN are jacked up enough as it is. No need for everyone to wet their pants.
  38. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

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    Oh. My bad. Unclench, y'all.
  39. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    Someone remind me of the difference(s) between the MSAR and the USN book?
  40. Funky

    Funky This space is for sale

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    MSAR is directly from aamc and USN is well, US news.
  41. blargh

    blargh Removed

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    =(

    i'm scared
  42. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68

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    :laugh: :laugh:

    bumpin this one... these are medians you fools! Not means! There is a big difference... think about it for a second and you will realize we don't know what the standard deviation is! I would guess it isn't <2 at some of those 21 schools. Keep your chins up.
  43. bahblacksheep

    bahblacksheep

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    You clearly don't know your stats. Mean and median are both perfectly good estimates of the center of a distribution. In fact, in something non-normally distributed (i.e. nonparametric), the median would be a far more accurate measure of the center of the distribution than the mean (as it would not be as heavily affected by outliers).

    The truth remains that when they publish a median at 3.91, that means half their accepted students met or exceeded that number.
  44. paki20

    paki20 Member

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    damn 3.91 median...crazy...haha forget about applying to these schools
  45. postbacker

    postbacker Removed

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    The MCAT composite median does have limitations, but this poster is getting closer to correct about GPA - no composite mumbo jumbo going on here - those are quite revealing and indicate that for the distribution of GPAs for accepted applicants, the midpoint of the range is 3.91 - staggering.

    Furthermore, the stats indicate the MCAT breakdown medians for each section of the test which make it more like GPA - so if you don't like the additive composite, compare yourself to those sectional medians - not sure that I get any warmer or fuzzier feeling about median MCATs by doing that, but if it works for you, great...

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