Non-traditional applicant

[ral22]

I am looking to apply MD-PhD programs in the 2017-2018 cycle. My question is what are my chances? I am a non traditional applicant and have some caveats in my background. I recently finished my ugrad in genetics and had some solid research experience (no pubs) but due to some personal circumstances that I will explain shortly my GPA took a hit (~3.0). I know this GPA is extremely low for MSTP programs but I feel the need to at least try for what I want. The reason my GPA took a dip was that my son spent 6 months I'm the NICU when he was born and continued to have some medical issues after that that divided my attention. Fortunately that is all finally being resolved. Now that I have graduated I have attained a position researching in a very productive ivy league lab. My PI encourages techs to be on pubs and even allows first pubs if you spearhead the project. Using my benefits I am going to complete a master's to improve my academic standing. I am also going to serve on the family advisory council at my son's children's hospital where I will give lectures to med students, residents, attendings, etc on the family perspective. I am also planning on doing some shadowing and other volunteering. I haven't taken the MCAT yes but scored fairly well on the GRE (Q:75% V:89% W:93%)

My question is: do I stand any chance or should I not even waste my money applying?

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[StIGMA]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances-read-before-asking.539268/

The GPA is what really hurts your chances. The average GPA of applicants who do not get acceptances is ~3.7.
GRE is meaningless (and the quant score is low for a potential bioscience PhD IMO- many people can ace the quant section [800] without preparing much, which used to be like 90% percentile). MCAT is all that matters, and for MD/PhD you should aim for 36+ (at least 95% percentile). The average person taking the MCAT is significantly more intelligent than the average person taking the GRE (which is to say I wouldn't predict a super-high MCAT score).

The only thing that would increase your GPA is re-taking/taking more undergraduate classes (eg: post-bacc). The masters program won't help you (classes in masters/graduate school are considered to be fairly easy to get goods grades in) because they do not affect your GPA that will be used in applying to medical school.

I'm sorry you had a tough time with your son. You need to focus extensively on the MCAT and aim for a 30+ score and apply to both MD and DO programs. MD/PhD programs are out of the question. You can pursue research at many MD and at some DO schools.

If you are actually very serious about the PhD, pursue PhD training now (ie: start this coming Fall if you can) and afterwards (in 5-6 years) apply to MD schools.

You could consider a "free" masters by applying to funded PhD programs and then dropping out once the master's degree is awarded after year 1/2 depending on the program and applying to MD programs during this time. I don't know your financial situation but kids are expensive and you should be trying to avoid loans as much as possible.

Sorry to be blunt, but you did not write very much information to go off of (so I assumed you were fairly naive about some of these things).

 

[ral22]

So there is essentially zero chance of me getting in? That's kind of what I thought. Thanks

 

[URHere]

So there is essentially zero chance of me getting in? That's kind of what I thought. Thanks

Right now, you don't have much chance of admission…but the main problem I can see with your situation is that you may be asking about your chances of admission about 2-3 years too soon.

How "solid" was your research experience as an undergraduate? Years? Full-time vs. part-time? Ability to work on projects independently? Number of presentations/abstracts? In my experience, if you haven't already spend at least 3-4 years working at least 20 hours/week in a lab on mostly self-directed projects (or at least 2 years full-time), then you don't have enough research experience yet. Your new research position will help, but that experience doesn't count until you have done it.

Your GPA is another very real problem. What was your GPA before it took this hit? If you dropped from something like a 3.7 to a 3.0 in 1-2 semesters, your grades had to have been failing-level terrible. If this happened towards the end of your academic career, you don't have the luxury of an upward trend, and (as you know) you need to do something to show that you are actually capable of handling upper level university coursework. I know that you are planning on doing a Masters degree, but be careful with this because there is a lot of grade inflation in many MS programs, and good grades in a program like that may not put anyone at ease. As Stigma has said, post-bacc programs would definitely be a better option for you. Also, with such a low GPA you need to do very well on the MCAT or you will only sow more doubts about your ability to perform academically.

Your position on the family advisory council sounds both unique and beneficial, but make sure you also have some other clinical/shadowing exposure. You don't need as much of this for MD/PhD programs, but in your case it may be worth shadowing and talking to some MD/PhDs to make sure that you really want to go down this path. If you decide against it, you may be a perfect candidate for DO programs, which allow grade replacement, so think about that.

Regardless, best of luck to you.

 

[ral22]

Right now, you don't have much chance of admission…but the main problem I can see with your situation is that you may be asking about your chances of admission about 2-3 years too soon.

How "solid" was your research experience as an undergraduate? Years? Full-time vs. part-time? Ability to work on projects independently? Number of presentations/abstracts? In my experience, if you haven't already spend at least 3-4 years working at least 20 hours/week in a lab on mostly self-directed projects (or at least 2 years full-time), then you don't have enough research experience yet. Your new research position will help, but that experience doesn't count until you have done it.

Your GPA is another very real problem. What was your GPA before it took this hit? If you dropped from something like a 3.7 to a 3.0 in 1-2 semesters, your grades had to have been failing-level terrible. If this happened towards the end of your academic career, you don't have the luxury of an upward trend, and (as you know) you need to do something to show that you are actually capable of handling upper level university coursework. I know that you are planning on doing a Masters degree, but be careful with this because there is a lot of grade inflation in many MS programs, and good grades in a program like that may not put anyone at ease. As Stigma has said, post-bacc programs would definitely be a better option for you. Also, with such a low GPA you need to do very well on the MCAT or you will only sow more doubts about your ability to perform academically.

Your position on the family advisory council sounds both unique and beneficial, but make sure you also have some other clinical/shadowing exposure. You don't need as much of this for MD/PhD programs, but in your case it may be worth shadowing and talking to some MD/PhDs to make sure that you really want to go down this path. If you decide against it, you may be a perfect candidate for DO programs, which allow grade replacement, so think about that.

Regardless, best of luck to you.

I have about 2 years of 20 hours a week experience (along with some industry stuff that I did before that but I don't usually count that). I worked independently and had a few presentations, nothing great though. I am going to spend the next 3 1/2 years working full time in this lab so that should bolster my stats (should be 2 1/2 when I apply June 2017). I have already started to study for the MCAT about 15 hours a week so I can score somewhere near where I need to. I also did the math and I would be able to do the post bacc and a master's in the time in between. Would that be worth it?

As for whether or not I want to go down this path it was my old PI that convinced me to do so and we had a couple of MD PhD rotations students through our lab that did the same. This is what I want to do, I just hope that I can

 

[URHere]

I also did the math and I would be able to do the post bacc and a master's in the time in between. Would that be worth it?

Do the post bacc and repeat whichever classes you bombed before. Do the Masters if you want to, but be aware that it won't add much to your GPA (or your research experience if you'll already have so much under your belt). Many people in my program (including myself) got a MS before matriculating, but debt accrues over most of a decade...

Follow your plan and work for it. That's the best you can do. If MD/PhD is really what you want, I think you owe it to yourself to try.

 

[ral22]

Do the post bacc and repeat whichever classes you bombed before. Do the Masters if you want to, but be aware that it won't add much to your GPA (or your research experience if you'll already have so much under your belt). Many people in my program (including myself) got a MS before matriculating, but debt accrues over most of a decade...

Follow your plan and work for it. That's the best you can do. If MD/PhD is really what you want, I think you owe it to yourself to try.

Debt won't be a problem because the masters is paid for by work. Most of my focus will be on research and trying to get the most out of that I can.
Thanks for the words of encouragement and I'm going to give it all that I can to get in.

 

[QofQuimica]

Besides what others have already mentioned regarding stats, I'd further ask how old you are and what your ultimate career goals are. You may not actually need both degrees to do what you want. We could give you some better recs if you give us a little more info along these lines.

 

[ral22]

Besides what others have already mentioned regarding stats, I'd further ask how old you are and what your ultimate career goals are. You may not actually need both degrees to do what you want. We could give you some better recs if you give us a little more info along these lines.

I am 28, so not ancient.

As for what I want to do, I am interested in translational cancer research that I could follow from bench to bedside

 

[ratherbefishing]

A) you are too old with too many red flags for md/phd
B) just get the md and you can do the same thing.