Nontrad Canadian

[NotHereForMe]

Hi, I'm posting this on behalf of my spouse (who's focused on doing the actual application process, rather than posting on forums) Obviously I'm not going to be as knowledgable about his ECs as he is, but I'm curious to see what you all have to say. So I wanted to post a thread anyhow.

You might notice he attended BYU, served as a Mormon missionary, etc. - but he's no longer LDS.

US/Canadian dual citizen, Canadian Resident
undergrad at BYU (Film)
went back to school at a Canadian college here in Alberta to fulfill science prereqs

He's going to be 28 this year, married, one child. Came from an anti-science, artistic family (hence the film degree). After graduating realized he had a passion for science and medicine and went back to school. Has been rejected from Canadian schools for two application cycles (the application process here is brutal).

He's applying to four Ohio schools (we have family connections in Ohio, I grew up there, etc.): WSU-Boonshoft, Toledo, Cincinnati, and NEOMED plus he's planning on applying to six other US schools (currently considering Marshal, Mayo, Rush, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, Commonwealth, Jefferson, and a few Virginia schools).

MCAT 37S
cGPA 3.59 (low, but for schools that look at trends, once he started taking science courses he got all As)
sGPA 3.84 (I think. It's possible I might have calculated this incorrectly.)

ECs:
volunteered assisting ER reporter 20 hours or less (total)
employed as lab monkey for research lab for a summer
employed as producer/videographer for website for non-profit organization (just under two summers)
employed as lab monkey for testing lab (test food supply for things like e coli) - more than full time
employed part time as community rehab. worker (for individuals with mental disabilities) (part time for two years)
currently volunteering with Dying With Dignity (Canadian non-profit that provides education on end-of-life options)
volunteered as a full-time (60-80 hours a week) missionary for two years (including filling leadership positions/training other missionaries)
vice president of Science and Engineering student society (also organized yearly video and video contest) - over 200 hours over 2 years
tutoring (chemistry, organic chemistry, physics) - over 100 hours over two years

Less important ECs:
played trombone/section leader/organized jr. band
played piano
choir
plus lots of smaller volunteer commitments (judging science fair, helping with bake sales, teaching positions at church, etc.)

ETA: The Alberta schools seem to think his ECs suck. Do you agree? Would a US school view them differently?

ETA: Basically, while WSU or UC would be his top choices, we mostly want to know if it looks reasonable to assume he will get accepted to at least one school.

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[GimpGenius]

A couple of points (I'll let the hardcore SDN'ers go more in-depth if they'd like):

1) Some physician shadowing may be in order. It looks like he has quite a bit of volunteer experience, which is good; but shadowing an MD/DO in their "day-to-day" environment can't hurt (it's often considered one of the "boxes to check" on the applications).

2) GPA/MCAT looks good, although with the Canadian residency he may want to apply a bit more broadly. Is he considering Canadian schools as well, or is that out?

3) Boonshoft and NEOMED have a reputation for being heavily in-state biased; so while your connections may weigh slightly in his favor, the fact that he's not a state resident may offer some problems. NEOMED in particular only takes ~20-25% of its class (initially) as direct entry, and there are some partnership programs going on with Ohio universities that may make that number (and his odds) slightly lower.

3a) I'd add Ohio State to the list, unless there's a compelling reason he doesn't want to go there. With his stats and experience, Case may be a viable (if pricey) option, as well.

That's all I've got for now. Good luck!

 

[NotHereForMe]

2) Is he considering Canadian schools as well, or is that out?
.
.
.
3a) I'd add Ohio State to the list, unless there's a compelling reason he doesn't want to go there. With his stats and experience, Case may be a viable (if pricey) option, as well.

That's all I've got for now. Good luck!

Thanks!

Re: 2 - he's going to apply to University of Calgary again (he got an interview two cycles ago, no interview last year). University of Alberta has never given him an interview. And applying out of province here, you pretty much need to have a 3.9 and have volunteered in Africa. . Despite the doctor shortage here, there are very few med schools in Canada, with very few seats available. His cGPA here, from an application standpoint, is considered quite low. UofC is a long shot, but it's his top choice, so he's got to give it one more try.

Re: 3 - He doesn't meet the new anatomy requirement for OSU. its a bummer, but nothing he can change for this application cycle. But Go Bucks anyhow!
There was one prerequisite at Case he was missing at well (I think it was either a psych class or being one semester short on calculus or something).

And quick question re: shadowing: is it worth delaying submitting his application via AMCAS until the end of June to be able to add it? It isn't really something Canadian premeds focus on, so he never did it.

 

[GimpGenius]

Makes sense; I forgot OSU added the A&P requirement. If a DO is an option, he could throw OU on the list of Ohio schools. There's a social sciences requirement there too, so if that's a route you're both willing to look at, I'd suggest calling them and discussing it. I've also heard Michigan State's DO program is Canadian-friendly; it may be worth checking that out too, if he's willing to go DO.

As the shadowing goes, I wouldn't forgo applying this cycle strictly on those grounds. If he can break away for a day or two to get some basic shadowing (family med or maybe a nighttime ED shift if that fits the schedule better), it would only help his application. Maybe he could get in touch with the hospital he assisted in and see if they can give him a point of contact for shadowing?

 

[NotHereForMe]

As the shadowing goes, I wouldn't forgo applying this cycle strictly on those grounds. If he can break away for a day or two to get some basic shadowing (family med or maybe a nighttime ED shift if that fits the schedule better), it would only help his application. Maybe he could get in touch with the hospital he assisted in and see if they can give him a point of contact for shadowing?

Sorry, I think I was unclear. He's not going to skip applying this cycle for any reason. I'm just asking should he wait a few weeks to submit the AMCAS application to fit in shadowing. Based on your answer, it sounds like he should. He was planning to complete it and submit by the end of the first week of June (with rolling admissions the sooner the better, right?). They don't do rolling admin. at the Canadian schools, so in previous years he's only had to worry about submitting before the final deadline. I'll pass along your advice. We don't live in the city where he did the volunteering at the hospital anymore. So he'll have to make some cold calls I guess. We're within walking distance of two hospitals now (a children's hospital and a teaching hospital), and several doctors clinics. Hopefully someone won't mind him tagging along for a few days. Thanks so much for the advice. I appreciate it and am passing it on.

Oh, and no, he doesn't consider DO an option.

Any more feedback from anyone is greatly appreciated.

 

[NotHereForMe]

Bump for further input from others. Surely you wonderful, smart people have more to add.

 

[NotHereForMe]

If he can break away for a day or two to get some basic shadowing (family med or maybe a nighttime ED shift if that fits the schedule better), it would only help his application. Maybe he could get in touch with the hospital he assisted in and see if they can give him a point of contact for shadowing?

Our family doctor is letting him shadow her. He'll hopefully get at least three days of shadowing with her, but possibly more if he can get off work and she's agreeable to more. She's got the best bedside manner of any doctor I've ever met, so I'm excited for him getting to shadow her. If he delays submitting his application for two weeks to fit in the shadowing, that'll be worth the delay right?

 

[NotHereForMe]

I am sorry to bump this over and over again. But I would really love to hear from more than one person. Any constructive input would be welcome.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi, I'm posting this on behalf of my spouse (who's focused on doing the actual application process, rather than posting on forums) Obviously I'm not going to be as knowledgable about his ECs as he is, but I'm curious to see what you all have to say. So I wanted to post a thread anyhow.

You might notice he attended BYU, served as a Mormon missionary, etc. - but he's no longer LDS.

US/Canadian dual citizen, Canadian Resident
undergrad at BYU (Film)
went back to school at a Canadian college here in Alberta to fulfill science prereqs

He's going to be 28 this year, married, one child. Came from an anti-science, artistic family (hence the film degree). After graduating realized he had a passion for science and medicine and went back to school. Has been rejected from Canadian schools for two application cycles (the application process here is brutal).

He's applying to four Ohio schools (we have family connections in Ohio, I grew up there, etc.): WSU-Boonshoft, Toledo, Cincinnati, and NEOMED plus he's planning on applying to six other US schools (currently considering Marshal, Mayo, Rush, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, Commonwealth, Jefferson, and a few Virginia schools).

MCAT 37S
cGPA 3.59 (low, but for schools that look at trends, once he started taking science courses he got all As)
sGPA 3.84 (I think. It's possible I might have calculated this incorrectly.)

ECs:
volunteered assisting ER reporter 20 hours or less (total)
employed as lab monkey for research lab for a summer
employed as producer/videographer for website for non-profit organization (just under two summers)
employed as lab monkey for testing lab (test food supply for things like e coli) - more than full time
employed part time as community rehab. worker (for individuals with mental disabilities) (part time for two years)
currently volunteering with Dying With Dignity (Canadian non-profit that provides education on end-of-life options)
volunteered as a full-time (60-80 hours a week) missionary for two years (including filling leadership positions/training other missionaries)
vice president of Science and Engineering student society (also organized yearly video and video contest) - over 200 hours over 2 years
tutoring (chemistry, organic chemistry, physics) - over 100 hours over two years

Less important ECs:
played trombone/section leader/organized jr. band
played piano
choir
plus lots of smaller volunteer commitments (judging science fair, helping with bake sales, teaching positions at church, etc.)

ETA: The Alberta schools seem to think his ECs suck. Do you agree? Would a US school view them differently?

ETA: Basically, while WSU or UC would be his top choices, we mostly want to know if it looks reasonable to assume he will get accepted to at least one school.

I'm concerned that you don't specifically mention experience with sick people through volunteerism or employment. US schools tend to want evidence that mnedicine as a career has been tested over time.

I'd agree that the application should be delayed until some quick intense shadowing is completed.

What exactly was his role as a community rehab worker?

What is the total time of the lab experiences?

How long is the current volunteer position ongoing?

Were the Alberta adcomms more specific about what they thought needed improving?

Does he have a green card?

 

[NotHereForMe]

I'm concerned that you don't specifically mention experience with sick people through volunteerism or employment. US schools tend to want evidence that mnedicine as a career has been tested over time.

I'd agree that the application should be delayed until some quick intense shadowing is completed.

Canadian med students don't shadow until they're actually in med school. In fact, many physicians here won't let a non-student shadow. Fortunately our family doc is letting him tag along. He'll be able to get in a few days before submitting his app this month. He got a half day on Friday, and is planning a full day on Wednesday, then hopefully at least one more day.

What exactly was his role as a community rehab worker?

He worked with a few individuals with mental disabilities. He was there to assist them in whatever ways they needed. Sometimes this meant going grocery shopping, or cleaning their homes, or moving. Some times it meant helping them attend social events or reading to them. It varied based on what each individual wanted and needed. He also did a limited amount of assisting physically disabled individuals with personal care.

What is the total time of the lab experiences?

I'd have to ask him, but it's a lot. He's been working 50-60 hour weeks at the lab where he's currently employed since this past fall, and was working part time for a few years before that. So at the very least, 1500 hours. Most of it has been scut work, but he seems to enjoy it despite that.

How long is the current volunteer position ongoing?

Unfortunately, this one is new. Last year we moved to a city three hours away from our previous home. That interrupted his opportunities a bit. Not ideal, I know.

Were the Alberta adcomms more specific about what they thought needed improving?

GPA and ECs seem to be his weak points. UofC doesn't care about the MCAT (they only look at verbal scores), so he doesn't have that to help balance things.

Does he have a green card?

He's a US citizen (dual Canadian/US citizenship). So that's not an issue.

There isn't much (besides the shadowing) that he can do to improve this year's application other than write a killer personal statement. I'm just wondering if he's likely to get in at at least one school. Sure, we have some personal favorites (like WSU), but all he really wants is to get in and get started on his education. I think being out of school is driving him a little batty.

 

[Catalystik]

The issues of lacking active clinical experience and being weak in shadowing are two different ones. Most US med schools will want to see both. By "experience with sick people" I refer to actively engaging them in some helpful way, where one focuses on the patient's needs. Shadowing is more of a passive observership, where one focuses on what the physician is doing.

I realize that it's difficult to get shadowing experiences in some parts of Canada, and that he's lucky to have found an opportunity, but there is no place there I've heard of where a volunteer position can't be acquired in a clinical facility, like a hospital, clinic, rehab center, hospice, or skilled-level nursing home. He really, really needs to start getting exposure to sick people where he can interact wih them (letting schools know via periodic update letters, where they are allowed). Most Canadian applicants to US schools have plenty of this type of experience. I'm surprised he didn't realize its importance, considering how many rounds he's been through already. Maybe Alberta wasn't sufficiently specific in their critique.

 

[NotHereForMe]

So, do I understand this correctly, if he were to start volunteering in a clinical setting now, he'd want the supervisor to send updates to the schools he's applying to this cycle?

 

[Catalystik]

No. He would be the one sending in update letters to each school, reporting on the activity and accumulated hours, in hopes of swaying adcomms positively on his file. Ideally, by the time he has interviews, he would have a solid base of experience. He should continue this activity through the cycle.