Nontrads: What was your first year of medical school like?

[beemo]

Hello all! I'm a recent admit and future MS1. Most of my friends that have entered and survived medical school have described it as a 'gauntlet' that was basically hell to get through. Most of them, however, entered in as traditional students and had very little real world experience. I am curious if you fellow nontrads had a different perspective seeing as we possess real world experiences and need to tackle very different challenges (families, relationships, etc) that your standard 22/23 year old MS1 would not have. I'm especially interested in whether or not you experienced a 'culture shock' of sorts when you entered in.

I'll admit that I am pumped for medical school, but am anxious of what is to come. Whereas I won't get a true gauge of how difficult it will be until I get there, I feel like some perspective from you guys would certainly help.

As a side-note, I had similar feelings about starting my post-bac program (I remember being a sophomore RA and watching my students suffering orgo while thinking 'omg I am so glad I never have to do that'), but found that the premed curriculum was hard work, but certainly nowhere near as life-threateningly challenging as others had claimed. I'm hoping the same is true for medical school lol

Many thanks all!

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[mdambitions]

Interested in some of these responses as well... I'm 28, married, with an almost 1 year baby girl. Since getting accepted I still wake up thinking... "No way is this actually about to happen... am I absolutely SURE I read that email correctly?" How did you successful nontrads handle M1? Any tips for us newbies?

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

It's been pretty rough for me. I think my estimate of how much work med school would be was pretty accurate, but I was surprised to see how difficult it's been for me to learn everything. I've been consistently at the very bottom of the class in almost every subject. That isn't too much of a problem yet because I go to a P/F school and I've managed to pass everything, but if my grades are indicative of my future Step 1 score, there's no way I'll get the residency I'm hoping for. The strange thing is that I did great in my postbac. I got A's in everything without too much of a struggle. Even organic was no problem at all. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't drop a dozen IQ points in the gap year between my postbac and MS1 year, because I've never felt so stupid before. I don't think my experience is typical for nontrads, though. I'm sure someone will come along with a more positive story than mine.

 

[orthogenes]

Hug! That stinks.

It's been pretty rough for me. I think my estimate of how much work med school would be was pretty accurate, but I was surprised to see how difficult it's been for me to learn everything. I've been consistently at the very bottom of the class in almost every subject. That isn't too much of a problem yet because I go to a P/F school and I've managed to pass everything, but if my grades are indicative of my future Step 1 score, there's no way I'll get the residency I'm hoping for. The strange thing is that I did great in my postbac. I got A's in everything without too much of a struggle. Even organic was no problem at all. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't drop a dozen IQ points in the gap year between my postbac and MS1 year, because I've never felt so stupid before. I don't think my experience is typical for nontrads, though. I'm sure someone will come along with a more positive story than mine.

 

[abolt18]

I've loved it. Tons of work and tons of time (as expected) but I enjoy what I'm learning and manage stress well. Had a 9 month old girl when school started and now just had #2 recently, so that's been a trial of time management and helping my wife while still getting my studying done, but I've done well (top 1/4 of class) as have many of my other non-trad married friends with kids (most of them are in the top 5 to 15 percent). You'll do great! Be ready to constantly adapt and pull high yield information from text and lectures quickly. Again, it's a TON of work, time, and money, but it's great,

 

[QofQuimica]

Are you looking to be AOA and score 260+ on Step 1, or are you looking to just get through somewhere in the middle of the pack? Because if it's the former, it will be hellish, absolutely. You haven't seen hellish until you've seen what it takes most people to make it to the top 10% of their med school class. But if it's the latter, you'll probably find it's about like any other full-time job you've ever had. As in, hellish right before big projects (i.e., exams) are due, and otherwise pretty manageable if you do a solid amount of work every day.

 

[Law2Doc]

The day to day stuff isn't that huge a change from college. We've all done the large lecture hall thing. The couple of big issues for most people in first year are (1) the pace/volume. It really is "like drinking out of the proverbial Firehose" You need to read and review everything regularly, daily, and stay on a schedule, because the time you'll have at the end of each block to review won't be enough. You can never allow yourself fall behind because you don't really ever have time later that you can catch up. (2) the curve. Med school admissions culls out all the "average" people you have previously been in class with. These 20 year olds you are in class with are scholastic freaks who can learn and process information far better than most mortals. Nonethless, half of your med school class will be in the bottom half of the class. This freaks a lot of people out. The stress level after the first test or two becomes palpable. You see people, maybe you, who have never been below average in their lives, suddenly faced with the notion that for med school they have to step it up just to be close to average. (3) learning how to learn. Not all college study methods work in med school. People have to figure out what works, make them more efficient. This tends to be more important first year than the information itself because learning to pack massive amounts of info into your head is critical for the subsequent years. You want to be able to be awoken at 2 am from a deep sleep and still somehow remember the major contraindications of the meds a nurse is asking you to prescribe. (4) blood and guts. Few other forms of education start you out cutting into dead bodies and ultimately allow you to cut into live ones. You will have classmates who shy away, and others who dive in. It's a unique learning and bonding experience. (5) you have to get comfortable with invading people's privacy. Taking a complete history is hard for some. In what other profession are you deemed not doing your job if you don't have a stranger get undressed into their underwear, look them in the eye and ask them with a straight face if they have sex with "men, women or both"? Being a doctor is a fascinating role where you need to have patients tell you things they can't even tell their spouse, priest, etc. (6) the time. The first two years your time is reasonable if you become efficient. Some rotations in third year, and then residency, you realize your time isn't your own. You show up before 5am At times, you stay overnight, you lose countless weekends. You can't schedule anything. Your hair grows long because you don't have time to get it cut. You have to pick and choose which family/friend events are most important because you can't go to most.

You will survive med school. But it's a pretty unique and difficult process, with multiple hurdles, and anyone who suggests it's like a continuation if college/postbac is lying. Same goes for the transition to the clinical years of med school and later to residency -- it's all new territory and kind of hard to explain all the challenges you don't yet really have a good frame of reference for. It's rewarding, but tough -- don't let anyone sugar coat it.

 

[sazerac]

Well, we've heard from the top of the class and the bottom of the class, so I guess it's my turn.

When I started, I worked incredibly hard. All day and almost all night. For some reason I had this huge fear of failure and the end of my dream. I became socially isolated and got really depressed. I was also angry a lot, which is not like me. My grades were just slightly above average.

I was about 2 or 3 months in when I realized that I was utterly miserable, I never would be turning in those perfect performances anymore, and being average really was okay now. Since I couldn't figure out how to raise my grades any higher, I experimented with doing less work and devoting more time to having fun instead. My grades didn't change, but my attitude sure did.

I kept that same strategy during MS2, and it's worked great for me. Since I'm going to be average anyway, I have become incredibly efficient at being average, which leaves me a lot of time to devote to outside non-medical interests like my new wife, the imminent arrival of baby #2, and partaking in the sorts of distractions that make New Orleans such a popular place to visit.

First year may take some adjustment, OP, but you'll figure it out. You definitely won't be in undergrad anymore.

 

[ejw5075]

premed curriculum was hard work, but certainly nowhere near as life-threateningly challenging as others had claimed. I'm hoping the same is true for medical school lol

This is true. Most people will tell you med school is more challenging than premed but I'm not entirely convinced. I think it really depends on what type of learner you are and what you enjoy. Premed bored the crap out of me & the MCAT was probably the biggest waste of my time and energy in the grand scheme of my academic career. Doing things that mean nothing to you, THAT is hard.
I went into medical school expecting that "life-threateningly challenging" as you stated, it has yet to come true going into MS4.
It is all about perspective and life experiences. If you worked + took classes + did whatever else it is nontrads do and did not fall apart, med school will be no different.
And that advice stands if you want to be top 10% and get great board scores.

 

[Crow T. Robot]

I was about 2 or 3 months in when I realized that I was utterly miserable, I never would be turning in those perfect performances anymore, and being average really was okay now. Since I couldn't figure out how to raise my grades any higher, I experimented with doing less work and devoting more time to having fun instead. My grades didn't change, but my attitude sure did.

This is what I fear. I'm in a SMP right now and I spend all my time striving for As. I hit the mark most of the time, but I have no life. I'm not looking forward to doing this in med school and I hope I can stop trying to be perfect (it's so hard after being ingrained into us for so long!)

Question- what is average? Is it truly right around 85%? Getting solid Bs?

 

[abolt18]

This is what I fear. I'm in a SMP right now and I spend all my time striving for As. I hit the mark most of the time, but I have no life. I'm not looking forward to doing this in med school and I hope I can stop trying to be perfect (it's so hard after being ingrained into us for so long!)

Question- what is average? Is it truly right around 85%? Getting solid Bs?

Average in my class is somewhere around 83-85% I believe.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is what I fear. I'm in a SMP right now and I spend all my time striving for As. I hit the mark most of the time, but I have no life. I'm not looking forward to doing this in med school and I hope I can stop trying to be perfect (it's so hard after being ingrained into us for so long!)

Question- what is average? Is it truly right around 85%? Getting solid Bs?

Average is usually in the B range, and below 70 is failing, but that's all a meaningless frame of reference for you because you don't really know what "B range" means once they've culled out the average people you were with in undergrad and postbac.

I actually Think the advice sazerac is giving above is dangerous and can't be extrapolated usefully to others. I think the problem with deciding not to be "perfect" and trying to have a life more often than not backfires in med school. Its not something you can just ease up on, and decide i need to work X hard to get an A but i can relax this many hours and still get a B. Doesn't work that way. More often you are going in working your hardest just to be comfortble you arent going to be on the wrong side of passing. Again, admissions culled out all the C students who used to make you look good in your premed classes -- there is nobody in your med school class who didn't get their share of good grades, and yet half of them will be below average, and some will even fail things. In my experience, Most people work their hardest, from the top to bottom of the class, and the spread happens pretty naturally. The person who eases up really can fail. You've invested too much to risk that. Med schools don't like to fail people out, and will give you second and third chances, but at most med schools you will absolutely know people who have to retake tests, courses, and even whole years. And that's not unreasonable considering the stakes to patients if doctors didnt give their all in school. So, while there are always outliers who pulled this off, don't go to med school thinking you can simply decide to be average or not perfect and be able to coast. doesn't usually work that way, and odds are it won't for you.
for most of us, we had to swim as fast as we could the whole time just to not get swept away by the undertow, and doing well was more of a pleasant surprise than a volitional choice of how high to turn up the effort. Expect to have to work hard and make med school your priority. If you are one of those rare individuals who can decide to study less and not be "perfect" great, but odds are very good that won't be you. In most cases you will be wratcheting things up to make sure you pass, not wratcheting things down to have more of a life. It would be nice if we had such control of our destiny that you could say -- I'm going to work 10% harder and get derm or I'm going to work 10% less and do something less competitive. But for most people, it's more -- I'm going to give 100% and see what my options are. That's just the way med school us. You won't have the option to ease up and still be where you need to be -- you don't have that kind of control over the process.

 

[LingoLaine]

For most of us, we had to swim as fast as we could the whole time just to not get swept away by the undertow, and doing well was more of a pleasant surprise than a volitional choice of how high to turn up the effort.

This one sentence sums up my entire med school experience thus far. I've never in my life worked SO hard just to achieve mediocrity. It's an extremely humbling experience.

 

[grt398]

These 20 year olds you are in class with are scholastic freaks who can learn and process information far better than most mortals.

More often you are going in working your hardest just to be comfortble you arent going to be on the wrong side of passing...But for most people, it's more -- I'm going to give 100% and see what my options are. That's just the way med school us. You won't have the option to ease up and still be where you need to be -- you don't have that kind of control over the process.

Have to agree with these in particular. I was shocked at the number of my classmates who were able to cram a 3 week block into a 4 day non-stop study session and pass throughout the first 2 years of school; that wasn't an option for me. It was a minimum 60-70+ hour/week job, and that was just to make sure I passed every exam while keeping up with the mandatory stuff my school required. I go to a P/F school with no internal ranking so...grades weren't the concern. I tried easing up twice during 1st year and found myself uncomfortably close to the pass line. It's just worth mentioning b/c I got all A's in my post-bac while working 40+ hours/week and doing everything else, so that's no real indication of how you'll do in med school. Things did get a bit easier second year when the material became more interesting to me.

 

[Crow T. Robot]

I took 12 credits per quarter and worked FT while getting all As in my post-bacc as well. But here in my SMP, studying is a full time job for me, so I completely understand the difference. In order to get As, I study about 8 hours a day on average, something I never had to do before. I work pretty darn hard to get those As, mostly because I was still trying to gain entrance into med school, but also because I knew I could achieve them. Its not that I want to slack off, but I would like to start striving for Bs instead of As in order to regain some more time with my family. It's not at all that I want to slack off, but I'm willing to sacrifice an A for a B in order to tuck my kid in at night.

 

[sazerac]

I actually think the advice sazerac is giving above is dangerous and can't be extrapolated usefully to others.

Oh yes! It was never my intention to give advice, only to report on my own adventures in med school as requested by the OP. My academic performance isn't high enough to be worth emulating.

If anybody else finds themselves giving med school their all, getting mediocre results, and your huge effort is causing you psychological harm, I hope you find a solution that both relieves the harm and improves your performance. I wish I did.

 

[alpinism]

It's been pretty rough for me. I think my estimate of how much work med school would be was pretty accurate, but I was surprised to see how difficult it's been for me to learn everything. I've been consistently at the very bottom of the class in almost every subject. That isn't too much of a problem yet because I go to a P/F school and I've managed to pass everything, but if my grades are indicative of my future Step 1 score, there's no way I'll get the residency I'm hoping for. The strange thing is that I did great in my postbac. I got A's in everything without too much of a struggle. Even organic was no problem at all. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't drop a dozen IQ points in the gap year between my postbac and MS1 year, because I've never felt so stupid before. I don't think my experience is typical for nontrads, though. I'm sure someone will come along with a more positive story than mine.

Study your butt off for step 1 (FA, Pathoma, and as many UWorld questions as possible) and you should end up with a solid score. GL!

Are you looking to be AOA and score 260+ on Step 1, or are you looking to just get through somewhere in the middle of the pack? Because if it's the former, it will be hellish, absolutely. You haven't seen hellish until you've seen what it takes most people to make it to the top 10% of their med school class. But if it's the latter, you'll probably find it's about like any other full-time job you've ever had. As in, hellish right before big projects (i.e., exams) are due, and otherwise pretty manageable if you do a solid amount of work every day.

Pretty much this.

This is what I fear. I'm in a SMP right now and I spend all my time striving for As. I hit the mark most of the time, but I have no life. I'm not looking forward to doing this in med school and I hope I can stop trying to be perfect (it's so hard after being ingrained into us for so long!)

Question- what is average? Is it truly right around 85%? Getting solid Bs?

Most schools with grades have a B average.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

Most schools with grades have a B average.

But again, saying the average is "a B" is trying to put a scale on something that has no real external frame of reference. No idea why you guys think that's useful information or that it will help you decipher how much studying is involved -- the average could just as easily be a C, D, M, R. It's just an arbitrary designation of scale -- it doesn't translate to something meaningful for you. Average in med school is the average you are left with after they cull away all the people that got Cs and Ds in college. Nobody wants to be in the bottom half of the class, and frankly the way you are truly "graded" in med school is mostly via "class rank" -- doesnt really matter if all your grades were Bs, Cs or Rs, whatever, the Deans letter is going to indicate if you are one of the top students, an average student, a lackluster student. So don't get hung up on meaningless scales that don't translate. When running from the bear, nobody cares how fast you are running, just that you are outrunning the other campers and surviving. You guys focusing on the average grade in med school is basically the equivalent of the scene in Spinal Tap where one of the characters thinks his amp is better because it goes up to 11 instead of 10. Doesn't work that way.

 

[yossarian444]

Like Law2Doc says, I was one of the people who had to give it my all just to avoid the fear of failing - there was no easing up. I worked harder than most people in my class - I easily averaged 80+ hours per week of studying. While I always felt one step away from failing, but I ended up after M2 year in the top 3rd of my class and ultimately did pretty well on Step 1 and 2 (and later Step 3).

Looking back, I sometimes miss those days of setting my own schedule. No flexibility in residency.