NYC internal medicine residency programs

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Just wondering, what is Columbia's reputation in NYC? I know it's a great program, but are residents happy? etc
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Columbia is definitely the most reputable program in NYC. From what I've heard, resident happiness is a mixed bag there. The program has an old reputation for being malignant, but I don't think that's really true anymore. Probably the worst part about the program is its location (the other 3 NYC programs are in much nicer areas), but the program itself is better overall.
 
jbz24 said:
Columbia is definitely the most reputable program in NYC. From what I've heard, resident happiness is a mixed bag there. The program has an old reputation for being malignant, but I don't think that's really true anymore. Probably the worst part about the program is its location (the other 3 NYC programs are in much nicer areas), but the program itself is better overall.
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Define "better". All NYC programs provide autonomy in droves, and you'll be competent manually because ancillary services are not willing to do as much in NYC due to strong unions.

It has been said before: go to a program that fits your style and one that you are happy with. All of these programs are accredited by the ACGME, and they'll get you where you want to be. Just as with medical school, if you rank based on perceived prestige or what someone "has heard" on SDN, it's your own fault if you don't like your match result.
 
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I don't mean to say that Columbia provides a better clinical experience than any of the other NYC programs, but it is definitely easier to match into a top notch fellowship coming from Columbia. Again, it's a personalized decision, but since many people will be applying for fellowship, that needs to be taken into account.
 
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Can anybody comment what ranks better: SUNY Downstate vs. Beth Israel vs. North-Shore?

NSUH is viewed as a community hospital, both Downstate and BI are recognized as university-based. I felt that Downstate got the best fellowship placement with the best reputation (a lot of discoveries, nobel prize etc.) But I have been having trouble as the rank approaches.
I want to do residency within NYC. Thanks for everyone that replies.
 
taztaz said:
Can anybody comment what ranks better: SUNY Downstate vs. Beth Israel vs. North-Shore?

NSUH is viewed as a community hospital, both Downstate and BI are recognized as university-based. I felt that Downstate got the best fellowship placement with the best reputation (a lot of discoveries, nobel prize etc.) But I have been having trouble as the rank approaches.
I want to do residency within NYC. Thanks for everyone that replies.
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Go to the place you like the best.These programs are essentially the same but each have unique aspects.NSUH will be a university program in 2011 when Hofstra Medical school opens and BI also has some nice fellowship matches so it really comes down to you and what you liked best out of these programs.
 
Thanks for the response J. I guess there is no real way to rank these programs. I am leaning towards placing Downstate above BI/NSUH because of its strong reputation in medicine and fellowship placement in-house.
Thanks for all your help.
 
Anyone have any views on St Lukes roosevelt vs SUNY downstate vs SUNY Brooke ?

Thanks
 
I've heard nothing from the residency program but I called the NRMP. St Vincent's has withdrawn from the match.
 
I was there today. It was pretty sad at St. Vincent's. The PD said they have tremendous financial debt and are hemorrhaging millions a month.Its a shame, that hospital has been around for over 150 years and serves a good part of the city and did a tremendous job on 9/11.It would have been great if it could have remain the same hospital under the proposed continuum deal but like everything in this world, its about the money. Continuum is gonna dismantle its infrastructure and use the hospital as ambulatory centers for BI and SLR.
 
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Because I was very bored and have too much time on my hands, I was trying to objectively compare fellowship match lists of the NYC programs. I know there’s more to it than match lists, but it still seems to be on our minds. I basically graded them as follows: matching into a top 10-15 program is 3 points, high-mid to top tier is 2 points, and everything else is 1 point. I only used years in which lists were available for all 4 of the NYC programs.

Cardiology:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brigham……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 27 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cooper……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Northwestern……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Duke……….3 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Total points: 17 points
Average: 1.55

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 2.14

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Brown……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
Cleveland Clinic……….3 points
Emory……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Georgetown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
St. Luke’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UChicago……….2 points
UColorado……….1 point
UNC……….1 point
WashU……….3 points
Total points: 30 points
Average: 1.43

Columbia 2008:
Pitt……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Yale……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Jefferson……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
Pitt……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.9

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….2 points
Baylor……….2 points
Temple……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
OHSU……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
LIJ……….1 point
UMiami……….1 point
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.58

Mount Sinai 2008:
Drexel……….1 point
Pitt……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 1.6

NYU 2008:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel-Long Island College……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
Total points: 10 points
Average: 1.43


GI:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 9 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
UPenn……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 12 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Winthrop……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
MSKCC……….1 point
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Temple……….1 point
UCLA……….2 points
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 1.88

Columbia 2008:
UPenn……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
UCSF……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2.33

Cornell 2008:
Brown……….1 point
UW……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2008:
UMDNJ……….1 point
UCSD……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
LSU……….1 point
Albert Einstein……….1 point
NYMC……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 1.4

NYU 2008:
Tufts……….1 point
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

It seems that Columbia has the strongest matches in both GI and cardiology. Interestingly enough, it seems as though Cornell is slightly better matching into GI than Mount Sinai, while Mount Sinai is better matching into cardiology than Cornell (generally people think it’s the opposite). NYU is the weakest of the bunch but still does well overall.
 
Jukebox said:
Because I was very bored and have too much time on my hands, I was trying to objectively compare fellowship match lists of the NYC programs. I know there’s more to it than match lists, but it still seems to be on our minds. I basically graded them as follows: matching into a top 10-15 program is 3 points, high-mid to top tier is 2 points, and everything else is 1 point. I only used years in which lists were available for all 4 of the NYC programs.

Cardiology:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brigham……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 27 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cooper……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Northwestern……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Duke……….3 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Total points: 17 points
Average: 1.55

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 2.14

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Brown……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
Cleveland Clinic……….3 points
Emory……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Georgetown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
St. Luke’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UChicago……….2 points
UColorado……….1 point
UNC……….1 point
WashU……….3 points
Total points: 30 points
Average: 1.43

Columbia 2008:
Pitt……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Yale……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Jefferson……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
Pitt……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.9

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….2 points
Baylor……….2 points
Temple……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
OHSU……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
LIJ……….1 point
UMiami……….1 point
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.58

Mount Sinai 2008:
Drexel……….1 point
Pitt……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 1.6

NYU 2008:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel-Long Island College……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
Total points: 10 points
Average: 1.43


GI:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 9 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
UPenn……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 12 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Winthrop……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
MSKCC……….1 point
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Temple……….1 point
UCLA……….2 points
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 1.88

Columbia 2008:
UPenn……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
UCSF……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2.33

Cornell 2008:
Brown……….1 point
UW……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2008:
UMDNJ……….1 point
UCSD……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
LSU……….1 point
Albert Einstein……….1 point
NYMC……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 1.4

NYU 2008:
Tufts……….1 point
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

It seems that Columbia has the strongest matches in both GI and cardiology. Interestingly enough, it seems as though Cornell is slightly better matching into GI than Mount Sinai, while Mount Sinai is better matching into cardiology than Cornell (generally people think it’s the opposite). NYU is the weakest of the bunch but still does well overall.
Click to expand...

Could you please one for Heme/Onc?
 
Jukebox said:
Because I was very bored and have too much time on my hands, I was trying to objectively compare fellowship match lists of the NYC programs. I know there's more to it than match lists, but it still seems to be on our minds. I basically graded them as follows: matching into a top 10-15 program is 3 points, high-mid to top tier is 2 points, and everything else is 1 point. I only used years in which lists were available for all 4 of the NYC programs.

[Interesting but ultimately flawed list snipped.]
Click to expand...

I cannot speak for cardiology matches, but as someone who recently matched into GI, I can say that Mt. Sinai and UCLA GI are both top tier programs and at least on par if not more renowned than Yale. Brown is also worth 2 points. It is a more laid back program excellent for those aiming for a clinical career. A large number of their fellows come from top-end, intense IM programs (off the top of my head I recall meeting those who come from UCSF, Columbia, and BID) and are interested in a more laid back place for fellowship.

I suspect the same goes for cardiology fellowship matches.
 
Jukebox said:
Because I was very bored and have too much time on my hands, I was trying to objectively compare fellowship match lists of the NYC programs. I know there’s more to it than match lists, but it still seems to be on our minds. I basically graded them as follows: matching into a top 10-15 program is 3 points, high-mid to top tier is 2 points, and everything else is 1 point. I only used years in which lists were available for all 4 of the NYC programs.

Cardiology:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brigham……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 27 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cooper……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Northwestern……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Duke……….3 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Total points: 17 points
Average: 1.55

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 2.14

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Brown……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
Cleveland Clinic……….3 points
Emory……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Georgetown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
St. Luke’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UChicago……….2 points
UColorado……….1 point
UNC……….1 point
WashU……….3 points
Total points: 30 points
Average: 1.43

Columbia 2008:
Pitt……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Yale……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Jefferson……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
Pitt……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.9

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….2 points
Baylor……….2 points
Temple……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
OHSU……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
LIJ……….1 point
UMiami……….1 point
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.58

Mount Sinai 2008:
Drexel……….1 point
Pitt……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 1.6

NYU 2008:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel-Long Island College……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
Total points: 10 points
Average: 1.43


GI:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 9 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
UPenn……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 12 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Winthrop……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
MSKCC……….1 point
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Temple……….1 point
UCLA……….2 points
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 1.88

Columbia 2008:
UPenn……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
UCSF……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2.33

Cornell 2008:
Brown……….1 point
UW……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2008:
UMDNJ……….1 point
UCSD……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
LSU……….1 point
Albert Einstein……….1 point
NYMC……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 1.4

NYU 2008:
Tufts……….1 point
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

It seems that Columbia has the strongest matches in both GI and cardiology. Interestingly enough, it seems as though Cornell is slightly better matching into GI than Mount Sinai, while Mount Sinai is better matching into cardiology than Cornell (generally people think it’s the opposite). NYU is the weakest of the bunch but still does well overall.
Click to expand...

Very interesting! Could you please do one for Heme/Onc?
 
NEXUS 5 said:
I cannot speak for cardiology matches, but as someone who recently matched into GI, I can say that Mt. Sinai and UCLA GI are both top tier programs and at least on par if not more renowned than Yale. Brown is also worth 2 points. It is a more laid back program excellent for those aiming for a clinical career. A large number of their fellows come from top-end, intense IM programs (off the top of my head I recall meeting those who come from UCSF, Columbia, and BID) and are interested in a more laid back place for fellowship.

I suspect the same goes for cardiology fellowship matches.
Click to expand...

I agree that Mount Sinai and UCLA are top tier. Obviously this is based off of my subjective opinions so my rankings can definitely be disagreed with.
 
Phineus said:
Very interesting! Could you please do one for Heme/Onc?
Click to expand...

I'm not as familiar with top heme-onc programs. I'll try my best but it might not be as accurate. Give me a few min.
 
Heme/onc:

Columbia 2009:
UPenn……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 12 points
Average: 3

Cornell 2009:
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Fred Hutchinson……….3? points
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 29 points
Average: 2.9

Mount Sinai 2009:
Northwestern……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 6 points
Average: 3

Columbia 2008:
MD Anderson……….3 points
Total points: 3 points
Average: 3

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….3 points
North Shore U……….1 point
Cornell……….3 points
Dana Farber……….3 points
Cornell……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
USF……….1 point
MSKCC……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 24 points
Average: 2.4

Mount Sinai:
NIH……….3? points
UCSF……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Total points: 12 points
Average: 3

NYU 2008:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
UChicago……….2 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

I’m not sure how to decipher this because they all seem to do well. I would give the nod to Cornell because they seem to put out a lot to highly competitive places, whereas Columbia puts out less to the same types of places. Mount Sinai and NYU seem to be a step down. I’ve heard people say that NYU does extremely well for heme/onc, but still they don’t do as well as Cornell or Columbia.
 
Jukebox said:
Heme/onc:

Columbia 2009:
UPenn……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 12 points
Average: 3

Cornell 2009:
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Fred Hutchinson……….3? points
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 29 points
Average: 2.9

Mount Sinai 2009:
Northwestern……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
MSKCC……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
Total points: 6 points
Average: 3

Columbia 2008:
MD Anderson……….3 points
Total points: 3 points
Average: 3

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….3 points
North Shore U……….1 point
Cornell……….3 points
Dana Farber……….3 points
Cornell……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
USF……….1 point
MSKCC……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 24 points
Average: 2.4

Mount Sinai:
NIH……….3? points
UCSF……….3 points
MSKCC……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Total points: 12 points
Average: 3

NYU 2008:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
UChicago……….2 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

I'm not sure how to decipher this because they all seem to do well. I would give the nod to Cornell because they seem to put out a lot to highly competitive places, whereas Columbia puts out less to the same types of places. Mount Sinai and NYU seem to be a step down. I've heard people say that NYU does extremely well for heme/onc, but still they don't do as well as Cornell or Columbia.
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You seem to be judging fellowship programs based on strength of the residency program, and I disagree with many of the points allotments. For example, I would say NYU is a better h/o fellowship place than either Cornell or Columbia. None of those 3 are 3 star places though. And I would argue Fox Chase is probably a better match than UPenn.
 
Hey this is a great ranking and I generally agree with the results. I'm trying to decide between the 4 New York programs and Yale. Where do you think Yale falls? in particular for cardiology?
 
Scaredshizzles said:
You seem to be judging fellowship programs based on strength of the residency program, and I disagree with many of the points allotments. For example, I would say NYU is a better h/o fellowship place than either Cornell or Columbia. None of those 3 are 3 star places though. And I would argue Fox Chase is probably a better match than UPenn.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I was reluctant to do heme/onc because I was unsure what the top programs are.
 
mbadoc said:
Hey this is a great ranking and I generally agree with the results. I'm trying to decide between the 4 New York programs and Yale. Where do you think Yale falls? in particular for cardiology?
Click to expand...

I didn't interview at Yale so I don't have access to their match list. Sorry.
 
Is Cornell a "3" for heme/onc. I speak out of ignorance, but with their affiliation with MSKCC I always assumed their inhouse program would be weaker.
 
taztaz said:
Can anybody comment what ranks better: SUNY Downstate vs. Beth Israel vs. North-Shore?

NSUH is viewed as a community hospital, both Downstate and BI are recognized as university-based. I felt that Downstate got the best fellowship placement with the best reputation (a lot of discoveries, nobel prize etc.) But I have been having trouble as the rank approaches.
I want to do residency within NYC. Thanks for everyone that replies.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of experience in these NY programs. In the end, it comes down to what you value.

SUNY Downstate has mostly IMGs and DOs, with a handful of AMGs. They have a large university program and heavily favor their own in fellowships. GI, cardio, you name it. If you don't mind staying with them for 6+ years, Downstate is the way to go. But be mindful of the infamously poor ancillary service. Don't believe the residents when they say the nursing (blood draws) are great, because the med students are often the ones doing it. or even the attendings!

Beth Israel is a university program, though not the main university hospital of AE. Very large hospital in a vibrant area of Manhattan. Down the block from NYU. Heavily front-loaded program. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into. PGY-1 year has 10-11 ward on-call months... 8-9 in-service + 1 CCU + 1 MICU. Don't fool yourself. It's heavy work. New PD is now former chief resident and former Penn attending, Dan Steinberg. Fellowship lists can be deceiving, and BI's list is not that strong, compared with Northshore.

Northshore is the richest hospital system in NY. Yes, richer than Columbia, Cornell, and Mt. Sinai. It also has the highest credit rating of all the hospital systems in the state. Rumored to buy near-bankrupt Lenox Hill Hospital in Upper East Side. Now that they merged with LIJ, more fellowship spots are opening up. I believe they also have the highest paying salary in the country for internal medicine. However, you are in Manhasset... not Manhattan. In the end, what it comes down to is reputation. Northshore, though known and expected to be a major player in the future, is still untested.

In my opinion, Downstate is the way to go, if you are considering academics as your career.
 
Jukebox said:
Because I was very bored and have too much time on my hands, I was trying to objectively compare fellowship match lists of the NYC programs. I know there’s more to it than match lists, but it still seems to be on our minds. I basically graded them as follows: matching into a top 10-15 program is 3 points, high-mid to top tier is 2 points, and everything else is 1 point. I only used years in which lists were available for all 4 of the NYC programs.

Cardiology:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Columbia……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brigham……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 27 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cooper……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Northwestern……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
Duke……….3 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Total points: 17 points
Average: 1.55

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 2.14

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Brown……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
CPMC……….1 point
Cleveland Clinic……….3 points
Emory……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
Georgetown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
St. Luke’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
St. Vincent’s……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UChicago……….2 points
UColorado……….1 point
UNC……….1 point
WashU……….3 points
Total points: 30 points
Average: 1.43

Columbia 2008:
Pitt……….2 points
BID……….2 points
Stony Brook……….1 point
Yale……….2 points
UMass……….1 point
Jefferson……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
UCSD……….2 points
Pitt……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.9

Cornell 2008:
Cornell……….2 points
Baylor……….2 points
Temple……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
OHSU……….2 points
Cornell……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
LIJ……….1 point
UMiami……….1 point
Total points: 19 points
Average: 1.58

Mount Sinai 2008:
Drexel……….1 point
Pitt……….2 points
Georgetown……….1 point
NYU……….2 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 1.6

NYU 2008:
NYU……….2 points
Beth Israel-Long Island College……….1 point
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
BID……….2 points
Northwestern……….2 points
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
UMDNJ-RWJ……….1 point
Total points: 10 points
Average: 1.43


GI:

Columbia 2009:
NYU……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
UPenn……….3 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 9 points
Average: 2.25

Cornell 2009:
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
UPenn……….3 points
Cornell……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
Total points: 12 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2009:
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Winthrop……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2

NYU 2009:
NYU……….2 points
NYU……….2 points
Albert Einstein……….1 point
MSKCC……….1 point
Johns Hopkins……….3 points
Temple……….1 point
UCLA……….2 points
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 15 points
Average: 1.88

Columbia 2008:
UPenn……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
UCSF……….3 points
UCSF……….3 points
Brown……….1 point
Columbia……….3 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 2.33

Cornell 2008:
Brown……….1 point
UW……….2 points
Columbia……….3 points
NYU……….2 points
Total points: 8 points
Average: 2

Mount Sinai 2008:
UMDNJ……….1 point
UCSD……….2 points
Beth Israel (NYC) ……….1 point
Cornell……….2 points
Brown……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
LSU……….1 point
Albert Einstein……….1 point
NYMC……….1 point
Mount Sinai……….2 points
Total points: 14 points
Average: 1.4

NYU 2008:
Tufts……….1 point
Yale……….3 points
Total points: 4 points
Average: 2

It seems that Columbia has the strongest matches in both GI and cardiology. Interestingly enough, it seems as though Cornell is slightly better matching into GI than Mount Sinai, while Mount Sinai is better matching into cardiology than Cornell (generally people think it’s the opposite). NYU is the weakest of the bunch but still does well overall.
Click to expand...

Good idea, but I think you are basing a lot of your ranking on the strength of IM. For example, in GI MSSM is a top 10 fellowship program whereas Columbia is lower down. There are also a lot of intangibles of these programs. Columbia has excellent match lists, the others overall are probably a bit lower down, but you will match in whatever you want to go into at above average to excellent places. For specialty areas, Columbia is tops for cards, hands down, Sinai is tops for GI; heme/onc I have less input on.
 
skiplesion said:
Good idea, but I think you are basing a lot of your ranking on the strength of IM. For example, in GI MSSM is a top 10 fellowship program whereas Columbia is lower down. There are also a lot of intangibles of these programs. Columbia has excellent match lists, the others overall are probably a bit lower down, but you will match in whatever you want to go into at above average to excellent places. For specialty areas, Columbia is tops for cards, hands down, Sinai is tops for GI; heme/onc I have less input on.
Click to expand...

Good point. I agree that MSSM's GI is regionally a top program, I just wasn't sure if it was as nationally known. It may tip it back to MSSM being stronger for GI matches than Cornell. And obviously the lists I made up are flawed to begin with, but I figured it would be interesting for others to see.
 
tarlovcyst said:
I have a lot of experience in these NY programs. In the end, it comes down to what you value.

SUNY Downstate has mostly IMGs and DOs, with a handful of AMGs. They have a large university program and heavily favor their own in fellowships. GI, cardio, you name it. If you don't mind staying with them for 6+ years, Downstate is the way to go. But be mindful of the infamously poor ancillary service. Don't believe the residents when they say the nursing (blood draws) are great, because the med students are often the ones doing it. or even the attendings!

Beth Israel is a university program, though not the main university hospital of AE. Very large hospital in a vibrant area of Manhattan. Down the block from NYU. Heavily front-loaded program. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into. PGY-1 year has 10-11 ward on-call months... 8-9 in-service + 1 CCU + 1 MICU. Don't fool yourself. It's heavy work. New PD is now former chief resident and former Penn attending, Dan Steinberg. Fellowship lists can be deceiving, and BI's list is not that strong, compared with Northshore.

Northshore is the richest hospital system in NY. Yes, richer than Columbia, Cornell, and Mt. Sinai. It also has the highest credit rating of all the hospital systems in the state. Rumored to buy near-bankrupt Lenox Hill Hospital in Upper East Side. Now that they merged with LIJ, more fellowship spots are opening up. I believe they also have the highest paying salary in the country for internal medicine. However, you are in Manhasset... not Manhattan. In the end, what it comes down to is reputation. Northshore, though known and expected to be a major player in the future, is still untested.

In my opinion, Downstate is the way to go, if you are considering academics as your career.
Click to expand...
Are there poor ancillary services at every program in NYC?
 
LadyJubilee8_18 said:
Are there poor ancillary services at every program in NYC?
Click to expand...


The academic programs, yes. But it is an overrated factor...with new rules on patient caps....doing 2 or 3 blood draws in a day is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things...wheeling a patient to a test occasionally...needing to be more vigilent on following up on things to make sure they get done....you get used to it...It is more of a problem in the less reputable programs where imgs are probably carrying more patients tha they are supposed to bee and where the ancillary services aren't just poor but nonexistent.
 
LadyJubilee8_18 said:
Are there poor ancillary services at every program in NYC?
Click to expand...

Not true any more. Many of the hospitals are magnet centers for nursing, and others have phlebotomy. At some hospitals the nurses may need some gentle reminding to draw the labs but by and large it gets done. Historically Columbia has the worst of the academic centers, the city hospitals (Bellevue, Elmhurst) as well, but MSSM and Cornell appear to have excellent ancillaries.
 
skiplesion said:
Not true any more. Many of the hospitals are magnet centers for nursing, and others have phlebotomy. At some hospitals the nurses may need some gentle reminding to draw the labs but by and large it gets done. Historically Columbia has the worst of the academic centers, the city hospitals (Bellevue, Elmhurst) as well, but MSSM and Cornell appear to have excellent ancillaries.
Click to expand...
of course i'd be interested in the program with the worst ancillary services
 
Hi Tarlovcyst,

Since you seem to know a lot about these programs, as it is coming down to the submission day, I was wondering what you think of St. Luke's Roosevelt? The impression that I got from the interview, is that the residents work very, very hard and for the most part seem too exhausted to be genuinely happy. However, the match list as it is posted on the website, seems very impressive to me. (I am not an IMG, however, I am also not that terrific of a candidate.) I am deciding between how to rank St. Luke's vs. Beth Israel. I know you commented that the match list at BI was decieving, I wonder if you have any input regarding that of St. Luke's?

Thank you again for all your help.
 
Phineus said:
Very interesting! Could you please do one for Heme/Onc?
Click to expand...

The problem with that giant point system of fellowship matches is that you have to proportion it out. Your points are flawed in this way. Mt Sinai, NYU, Columbia, and Cornell all have different size residencies. I believe NYU and Cornell have the bigger programs (i.e. as in more PGY-1 interns or residents per class). So the 10 people from Columbia (just say out of a class of 40) is not equivalent to the 10 people from NYU (just say out of a class of 60) that matched into GI.

But I must commend you... Nice work on the point system. Largely objective data, but must fix this flaw in your point system.
 
taztaz said:
Hi Tarlovcyst,

Since you seem to know a lot about these programs, as it is coming down to the submission day, I was wondering what you think of St. Luke's Roosevelt? The impression that I got from the interview, is that the residents work very, very hard and for the most part seem too exhausted to be genuinely happy. However, the match list as it is posted on the website, seems very impressive to me. (I am not an IMG, however, I am also not that terrific of a candidate.) I am deciding between how to rank St. Luke's vs. Beth Israel. I know you commented that the match list at BI was decieving, I wonder if you have any input regarding that of St. Luke's?

Thank you again for all your help.
Click to expand...

I interviewed at both programs and had the impression that St. Luke's Roosevelt had a stronger program, thus I ranked it higher. I know people who went to residency at both places and they seemed happy with their experience. You might have a harder time getting into a competitive fellowship in the NYC area coming from either of these places. I don't get the impression that St. Luke's takes lots of their own residents for in house fellowship so be prepared to apply to fellowship programs to increase your chances. They do match their residents in various fellowship programs but not necessarily in the New York area
 
Hi guys,

A few words on Saint Luke's, since the topic's come up. I'm a PGY-3 in the program.

I applied only to NYC programs, and Saint Luke's was at the top of my list. I'd have been crushed if I hadn't matched there. I had very specific reasons for this; here are some, from abstract to concrete:

--Happiness. It's important. Not only for its own sake, but also because if you are unhappy you will compensate by working less. While I'm admittedly way more of a cheerleader for the program than some, I think nearly everyone would agree that we're for the most part very happy. We have a program director who is a fierce advocate for his residents and he puts a lot of thought into how to make IM more humane for his residents. I've gotten lectured by him twice, and both times were for working too much.

--Innovation. Our program director is a big player on the national program director's committee. We are his laboratory. Usually this is for the better. People who like complete predictability will be annoyed by this; residents who want to be in a cutting-edge program will love it. When he started the job the program was regarded very poorly. When I applied nearly four years ago no one would have considered ranking it higher than Beth Israel. When you graduate four years from now it's a good bet you'll leave a program way more prestigious than when you started.

--Experience. I went to school in Arizona and did tons of rural rotations. When I came to New York as a med student, I was used to delivering babies, doing office vasectomies, throwing subclavians, etc. I was bitterly disappointed at the lack of hands-on opportunities in my NYC rotations. The rumor I heard was that St Luke's was the place to go for autonomy and procedures, and I haven't been disappointed. The amount of autonomy you have on your night shifts and the availability of procedures is as much as I can imagine being offered without crossing the line into recklessness.

--Versatility. We are a very large program. This lets you swap rotations fairly easily and essentially get a head start on your specialty. Critical care is my thing. Critical care at Saint Luke's is stellar, and I've spent around a third of my residency in some sort of ICU-related capacity. Many of my classmates hate the ICU and have spent most of their time elsewhere. This sort of focus is hard to attain without a critical mass of residents to facilitate block trades.

--Fellowships. We match very well, in-house and out. There are exceptions: To match in GI here you have to sell your soul. Cardiology requires a definite gift for the political. But I don't think that's so unusual for these specialties. Some of our fellowships, like nephrology, fill in-house almost exclusively. I wanted to residency in NYC because I wanted to do fellowship in NYC. I am interviewing now and I can't overstate the importance of knowing an attending who has connections. Our attendings, by and large, are easy to get to know and will fight tooth and nail for residents they believe in.

Downsides:

--Clinic. If you want to be a general internist with an outpatient practice, this isn't the best place for you. We are hospital-heavy, I think even more so than most NYC programs. The clinics are in a state of flux as we move them off-site and it's hard to say how this is going to work out.

Let me know if you all have any more questions about the program. I can say without reservation that if I were applying again and had my choice of any New York program, Saint Luke's would still be at the top of the list (along, maybe, with NYU).
 
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I loved my interview at St. Luke's and everything the program offers. However, I still have doubts about the strength of their endocrine program and if they promote hospitalist training which is the other career choice I'm contemplating. If you could shed some light on any of this it would be very helpful seeing as we are only a few hours away from the rank list deadline!
 
I heard on the radio last week that St vincents layed off many workers including 32 residents and closed several departments
 
Digoxin1 said:
I loved my interview at St. Luke's and everything the program offers. However, I still have doubts about the strength of their endocrine program and if they promote hospitalist training which is the other career choice I'm contemplating. If you could shed some light on any of this it would be very helpful seeing as we are only a few hours away from the rank list deadline!
Click to expand...

You should not have any problems landing a good hospitalist job coming from St. Luke's Roosevelt.
 
So is it pretty much consensus that the top 4 IM programs are columbia, cornell, nyu, mssm? How does montefiore fit into that mix?
 
In general, what is the new york city residency experience like? would you say that it is vastly different than any other city or more suburban area? The reason I ask is because I heard from someone who did a residency or who knew residents there that it was a complete horror, the work hours, how tired and burnt out people were, etc. Is this more so than any other city? For me, since I have to be in the area, I'm comparing NYC programs to north Jersey... Also, are residents at the community hospitals basically by default taking themselves out of the running for an academic career in medicine or fellowship? If this is the case, it really narrows down the number of options in NYC.
 
sime0n said:
So is it pretty much consensus that the top 4 IM programs are columbia, cornell, nyu, mssm? How does montefiore fit into that mix?
Click to expand...

I haven't heard much good about Montefiore, but nothing bad either. Seems like a decent program, but nowhere near the four you just mentioned. It's my impression that anyone getting into those 4 residencies and perform decently well will have their pick of fellowships. Can't really say the same for the other programs in NYC unless you're only looking at programs that favor their own for fellowship spots.
 
sime0n said:
So is it pretty much consensus that the top 4 IM programs are columbia, cornell, nyu, mssm? How does montefiore fit into that mix?
Click to expand...

AE is @ a noticeably lower tier than the 4, but significantly better than Downstate. However, even amongst the 4 there are grades. Columbia is significantly harder to get an interview at than the rest. MSSM seems next more selective, if not just for the fact they were assigning interview dates to people late this cycle; this seems like a good place for pre-GI. Cornell = NYU but still very strong and well-known. Huge difference between Cornell patient and Bellevue patient. Aside from Columbia, the other 3 seem interchangeable for career/fellowship, and you should rank based on your perceived fit for each hospital's character and residents.
 
The new york programs seemed a bit random for interviews.

Following my PD's advice, I applied to all 4 programs but ended up just getting MSSM and NYU.

A friend with a very similar application only got Cornell and MSSM. Another only got Cornell and NYU. A bunch more people only got NYU. No one that I know of got Columbia, even AOAs with strong board scores (but who didn't honor medicine).

So from my admittedly small sample size it seemed that in terms of getting an interview, Columbia was far and away the hardest, Cornell and MSSM were pretty similar, and NYU was the easiest. That said, some qualified people didn't even get NYU.

My conclusion off limited data is that NYC programs are crap shoots. Apply to all of them and hope for the best. (And ALL 4 of them are good).
 
RonBurgandy said:
The new york programs seemed a bit random for interviews.

Following my PD's advice, I applied to all 4 programs but ended up just getting MSSM and NYU.

A friend with a very similar application only got Cornell and MSSM. Another only got Cornell and NYU. A bunch more people only got NYU. No one that I know of got Columbia, even AOAs with strong board scores (but who didn't honor medicine).

So from my admittedly small sample size it seemed that in terms of getting an interview, Columbia was far and away the hardest, Cornell and MSSM were pretty similar, and NYU was the easiest. That said, some qualified people didn't even get NYU.
Click to expand...

I'll add to that sample size. I applied those 4 plus Monte. Got Monte (shocker), Sinai and Cornell invites, but not NYU or Columbia.

Totally random at best.
 
Any particular thoughts about North Jersey programs? For people that want to be within commutable distance from NYC, what programs are available? And how are they in terms of quality, resident happiness, etc?
 
Update on Montefiore for Heme-Onc -- best match in last 5-6 years

2 ppl to Mt. Sinai, 1 to Johns Hopkins, 1 to MSKCC

Einstein is actually a world class research institute in onc (NCI center) -- so the opportunity is there. Chairman helped develop Tarceva and CT surgery for lung cancer is particularly strong (heard him speak at ASCO this year).

Monte also is a lot of fun in training, with wonderful attendings on the ward service. It's also in the Bronx, which is a turnoff for some, although it is the main University Hospital system in the Bronx for more than 1 million people.

gutonc said:
I'll add to that sample size. I applied those 4 plus Monte. Got Monte (shocker), Sinai and Cornell invites, but not NYU or Columbia.

Totally random at best.
Click to expand...
 
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