Obstacles as an Osteopathic Student

[laboholic]

I get what you're trying to say, I really do, but you're pushing it a bit far. Even if they meant "typically" and not "never", it still describes a tendency to not consider DO applicants for interviews and ranking simply because they are DO applicants. I don't think anyone is saying that rare superstars never get interviewed and ranked, but we're looking at an overall trend, and the trend is that if 71% of a big sample of ACGME PDs said they typically consider DO applicants, that means 29% typically don't. That's more than 0-1%, it's practically 1/3.

Now I know sometimes people really emphasize DO discrimination, and I don't always think it's productive or reasonable. That said, it's also not reasonable to be unaware of it or pretend it's smaller than it is. Like I said, it shouldn't make us bitter, scared, or ashamed, but it should make us take extra steps to be prepared.

The truth is that there are many ACGME PDs that won't look at a DO's app simply because they're a DO. Again, this isn't something to get discouraged about, it just is the way things are.

I'm glad to be a DO student. I like my school, I like the curriculum, I even like most of OMT, and you better believe I'm going to be proud to wear that "D.O." on my chest. As DO students we don't need to let that knowledge of how some PDs are discourage us from reaching for the programs we want. We just need to do so either with a longer app list and/or a backup just in case (really almost everyone should do this).

Thank you for putting some thought into your response. I was definitely going for extreme so as to balance out the other extreme.

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[meliora27]

I know I wasn't ranked highly at a program in Chicago solely because I am a DO. One of my interviewers told me. He actually said he felt sorry for me because he thought I deserved to be there. I didn't rank the program that highly, so it didn't really matter.

Do you mind sharing what field this was in?

 

[cliquesh]

Do you mind sharing what field this was in?

Anesthesia

 

[Mad Jack]

I spoke to an MD friend of mine a few years ago who related to me her MD cousin's experience with DOs. "All the DO residents suck," her cousin said.

I asked, many, many residents and attendings about how they felt about DOs they had worked with over the years before I applied. Never heard such a sentiment.

 

[JimmyB123]

Really good perspective on this thread. I understand that there are obstacles as a DO student and honestly, it's fine. I've faced so many obstacles in college and even applying to medical school that I'm used to it by now.

Being the underdog is fun.

 

[DermViser]

It was a joke. I mean only that the biggest obstacle for any given Osteopathic medical students with any given set of board sores, research, third year grades, pre-clin grades, etc..., will be the simple fact that they are DOs. They will automatically be held in lower regard when evaluated for admission to any given residency program or field because of that one fact. Other obstacles are those that have been mentioned, like having to spend time with OMM (which will hinder your pre-clin performance), or getting crappy third year rotations (which is the standard at many DO schools), or having to relocate to some $hitty city (which is where many if not most DO schools are located). All of this plays into the fact that the degree and associated training are perceived as inferior and necessarily make it more challenging for any given DO student to achieve some arbitrary level of success compared to his/her MD equivalent.

This x 1000.

 

[OCDEMS]

This x 1000.

I thought you would have commented earlier, but you didn't disappoint. I even bet it would be that particular comment. Like a mosquito to a light.



Not to say that anything in the comment is particularly false.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

This x 1000.

I'm sure this is more true for high level academic/research centers than low tier academic centers/community hospitals.

 

[DermViser]

I thought you would have commented earlier, but you didn't disappoint. I even bet it would be that particular comment. Like a mosquito to a light.



Not to say that anything in the comment is particularly false.

Didn't say it was false, which you admit it isn't. Those are exactly the reasons why. It isn't bc of the letters.

 

[DermViser]

I'm sure this is more true for high level academic/research centers than low tier academic centers/community hospitals.

Academic medical centers are not at all like community hospitals. Since most ACGME residencies operate in academic medical centers, they will be wary of people who haven't done their MS-3 rotations in academic medical centers but in community hospitals.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Academic medical centers are not at all like community hospitals. Since most ACGME residencies operate in academic medical centers, they will be wary of people who haven't done their MS-3 rotations in academic medical centers but in community hospitals.

Audition rotations should count for something.

 

[DermViser]

Audition rotations should count for something.

You can't do a year's worth of audition rotations - not to mention electives are graded differently than clerkships.

 

[hallowmann]

You can't do a year's worth of audition rotations - not to mention electives are graded differently than clerkships.

I think what he's getting at is that an audition would give a program some sense of how prepared a student may be.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I think what he's getting at is that an audition would give a program some sense of how prepared a student may be.

Yes I am.

 

[DermViser]

I think what he's getting at is that an audition would give a program some sense of how prepared a student may be.

Except it's an elective, not a required clerkship, which are graded differently. There's a reason MS-4s suddenly don't care unlike MS-3.

 

[hallowmann]

Except it's an elective, not a required clerkship, which are graded differently. There's a reason MS-4s suddenly don't care unlike MS-3.

I don't think you're getting what we're saying. For example, if I want to apply to say UCI for IM, doing an IM audition rotation at UCI would give the people at the program at least some idea of my capabilities and how prepared I might be. I don't think he's talking about how it would look to other programs, just how it would look to the ones you're auditioning at.

 

[fancypantsdance]

My only regret is doing OMT on a a bunch of family members and friends. Now literally everytime I see them, they ask if I can take a look at their neck, back, etc...I can't really say no lol so I end up just treating. Don't get me wrong, I like OMT and being able to do it. But when I have studying to do, or dishes, or just wanna relax and my friends visit, I don't really wanna drop everything and spend an hour working on everyone. I just wanna relax.

But then again, now that I think about it, its not really a regret, just an occasional annoyance. Love me some OMT

 

[DoctorSammyU]

As a DO who had to search for many clinical rotations during my 3rd and 4th year, it taught me to be more forward and helped me to become more persistant. There were some hospitals who would tell me that they had filled all clinical rotation spots during certain months, but persistence led me to obtaining clinical rotations. I think the downside to having to do this is that it takes time away from studying, but I learned to stand up for myself and help define my education, all on my own. As a result now as an attending, I have learned to engage consultants - some 20-30 years older than me - and I have no problem questioning them or challenging their decisions. Im not trying to portray myself as a know it all, but it helped my confidence level. I also was exposed to students - both allopathic and osteopathic - at various hospitals that all helped me to get by. We helped each other.

doctorsamurick.com - Attending, St. Clair Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA

 

[HoboCommander]

I've had zero problems. Most family and relatives have never heard of a DO so they don't know what it is, and you have to explain to them several times that yes, you are studying to be a doctor. But as DO schools expand, people are becoming more aware what DOs are.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Two weeks in so far, and we do 1.5 hours a week of omm

I'd give anything for just an hour and a half. I have to deal with 4 hours of that.

 

[wjs010]

I'd give anything for just an hour and a half. I have to deal with 4 hours of that.

Ouch. Lol

 

[Dr. Zombie]

The things we gotta sacrifice our time with in order to be physicians.