Official 2018 Rank Order Lists

[splik]

SUNY is a community based program too. i wouldn't get too obsessed with whether a program is "university based" or not, most programs that claim to be university based are not.

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[Wounded Healer]

SUNY is a community based program too. i wouldn't get too obsessed with whether a program is "university based" or not, most programs that claim to be university based are not.

Yes I know, you are right. Which one you think is better? Would there any difference upon graduation; regarding the diploma's reputation?

 

[Ironspy]

I really loved UMass but SO would not be able to find a job in his field in Worcester. Discouraging to see posts regarding how bad the Worcester-Boston commute is. I've lived in areas where within 1 hour of a city is still within the commutable/suburb range. Is it lack of reliable train service?

Also, any thoughts on Stony Brook? Does anyone remember the call schedule? It seemed relatively heavy (most 6 day weeks first years)

I lived in Newton and commuted to Worcester. My SO worked in Boston and both our commutes (me driving and him train) were 40-45 min each way. Not great but doable. Fwiw I loved umass but ranked it lower for personal reasons

 

[psychapp93]

Can anyone comment on the call schedule at Michigan? I don't recall specifics but remember it being described as "heavy".

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Yes I know, you are right. Which one you think is better? Would there any difference upon graduation; regarding the diploma's reputation?

no

 

[deleted368119]

no

As a New York native, I believe otherwise. SUNY Downstate will keep more doors open for you in the academic setting if you ever happen to decide to pursue that route. Maimo, simply will not. That being said, to succeed at SUNY you must be a resilient and proactive resident. There are residents who have gone on to prestigious fellowships including ivy league research fellowships. The research/academic/leadership opportunities are there at SUNY but they have to be hunted down.


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[FlowRate]

I am not sure how logical it is to create a ROL based on how you felt on the interview day.

Logical? Not to the types who will tell you that emotions and intuition aren't logic. Meanwhile, that's how your brain tells you all sorts of information that it's deriving from obscure relationships that are mostly outside of your conscious thought processes. So yeah, listen to your gut.

 

[Wounded Healer]

no

As a New York native, I believe otherwise. SUNY Downstate will keep more doors open for you in the academic setting if you ever happen to decide to pursue that route. Maimo, simply will not. That being said, to succeed at SUNY you must be a resilient and proactive resident. There are residents who have gone on to prestigious fellowships including ivy league research fellowships. The research/academic/leadership opportunities are there at SUNY but they have to be hunted down.


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It is only a hunch, but I felt like Maimonides has more supportive environment than SUNY. I can't name it, but there is something I don't like about SUNY. I am not sure how logical it is to create a ROL based on how you felt on the interview day.

I would like to pursue fellowship training and work in an academic institution in the future. If there is no concern regarding location, where to put Penn State? There are lots of research opportunities, good faculty, Sleep research, mood disorders clinic, eating disorders clinic, etc. I can't decide between Penn State, SUNY, and Maimonides, how to rank them; my number 3-4-5 is changing on an hourly basis. Sorry, I kinda hijacked the thread.I would really appreciate any input.

 

[Dharma]

As a New York native, I believe otherwise. SUNY Downstate will keep more doors open for you in the academic setting if you ever happen to decide to pursue that route. Maimo, simply will not. That being said, to succeed at SUNY you must be a resilient and proactive resident. There are residents who have gone on to prestigious fellowships including ivy league research fellowships. The research/academic/leadership opportunities are there at SUNY but they have to be hunted down.


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How long have you been out of psychiatry residency?

 

[Amygdarya]

For what it's worth, even though Maimonides is a community program, they encourage research. I don't know what the program's outcomes are in terms of fellowships and academic careers, but quite a few Maimo residents submit their research papers for the resident research competition organized by the NY chapter of the APA and win. In fact, as told by someone who's on the review committee, in recent years there've been so many submissions from Maimo that they made almost half of all submissions (and we're talking NYC with a ton of residencies including some research power houses!).

From what I gather, Maimo attracts smart motivated IMGs and has a supportive PD. By contrast, if you're interested in research, SUNY Downstate had a "research track" that is simply a year of research on top of the 4 years of residency - in other words, their residents are workhorses that won't be allowed any time/accommodation for research, even if research projects are available in theory. (Unlike many other programs in the city, SUNY Downstate confirms the negative stereotype of NYC residencies.)

By the way, congrats on your rank list! A nice group of programs, especially on such a short notice. I'll be rooting for you in the Match!

 

[deleted368119]

It is only a hunch, but I felt like Maimonides has more supportive environment than SUNY. I can't name it, but there is something I don't like about SUNY. I am not sure how logical it is to create a ROL based on how you felt on the interview day.

I would like to pursue fellowship training and work in an academic institution in the future. If there is no concern regarding location, where to put Penn State? There are lots of research opportunities, good faculty, Sleep research, mood disorders clinic, eating disorders clinic, etc. I can't decide between Penn State, SUNY, and Maimonides, how to rank them; my number 3-4-5 is changing on an hourly basis. Sorry, I kinda hijacked the thread.I would really appreciate any input.

As Amygdara was getting at, definitely look into the fellowship placements of SUNY vs. Maimonides if you want to have a better idea of post-training career opportunities. There are a few SUNY residents doing PhDs concurrently during residency. Are the residents workhorses? Absolutely. It's a tough program as is and even tougher if you are more ambitious than average but there are a few PIs who can set you on great career paths (attending and presenting at conferences above the quality of regional APA chapters, not to mention publications). I would never claim that SUNY has a more supportive environment than Maimo and can understand that you feel something is off. In the end, you'll have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what's more important to you. Not a resident at SUNY, by the way. You can PM me for more details. Good luck!

 

[deleted368119]

How long have you been out of psychiatry residency?

Irrelevant. This is an anonymous board. I could tell you I've been out of training since you lost your first tooth and it would be meaningless. If Wounded Healer has doubts about what I am saying they can easily fact-check details such as post-residency placement of residents with the PDs, websites and other online resources. I simply hoped to provide the applicant with an alternative perspective.

 

[MrWonderful]

Can anyone comment on the call schedule at Michigan? I don't recall specifics but remember it being described as "heavy".

I don't remember specifics, but I know that when I interviewed there it was described as "brutal" by one resident. Also, the chief basically said it was resident-run and you are relied upon.

 

[Wounded Healer]

For what it's worth, even though Maimonides is a community program, they encourage research. I don't know what the program's outcomes are in terms of fellowships and academic careers, but quite a few Maimo residents submit their research papers for the resident research competition organized by the NY chapter of the APA and win. In fact, as told by someone who's on the review committee, in recent years there've been so many submissions from Maimo that they made almost half of all submissions (and we're talking NYC with a ton of residencies including some research power houses!).

That's awesome. Yeah, they told us that they encourage research, but hearing this from someone who is unbiased is more important. Thanks!

From what I gather, Maimo attracts smart motivated IMGs and has a supportive PD. By contrast, if you're interested in research, SUNY Downstate had a "research track" that is simply a year of research on top of the 4 years of residency - in other words, their residents are workhorses that won't be allowed any time/accommodation for research, even if research projects are available in theory. (Unlike many other programs in the city, SUNY Downstate confirms the negative stereotype of NYC residencies.)

SUNY has one month of protected research, but other than that, if you wanna do research, you can but should do it in your own time. That requires a bit of sacrifice.

By the way, congrats on your rank list! A nice group of programs, especially on such a short notice. I'll be rooting for you in the Match!

I appreciate, thank you so much!!! I got lucky, I am hoping the best. I am super excited for the match. I hope we match to a program we will be happy the most! Fingers crossed.

 

[splik]

Yes I know, you are right. Which one you think is better? Would there any difference upon graduation; regarding the diploma's reputation?

i suppose it depends on what you are looking for. maimonides has a very nice program director who is very supportive of IMGs in general. i dont know who the training director is at SUNY anymore. it used to be goldfinger who was also the chair but i believe he was deposed. he was quite supportive of the residents to a certain extent too. i have seen residents from maimonides present at national conferences btw so if you are proactive about that sort of stuff it definitely seems doable. now i dont want to play down the fact that there are wild differences between residency programs on the whole, but in general residents who succeed are those who work hard, bring solutions and not problems to the administration, say "yes" to things (learning to say no is a more advanced skill), and don't wait for people to come to them with opportunities but create them. i would suggest ranking based on where you feel you would be most supported because ultimately that matters more than how much research is going on or what opportunities may or may not be on hand. it's NYC there are plenty of opportunities to get involved with projects somewhere if you have the drive and are willing to put the work in. i have residents and med students across the country working with me on various projects (including from SDN!) so you are not limited to what is going on at your program, only by your imagination and determination!

 

[deleted736562]

It is only a hunch, but I felt like Maimonides has more supportive environment than SUNY. I can't name it, but there is something I don't like about SUNY. I am not sure how logical it is to create a ROL based on how you felt on the interview day.

Your instinct is one of the most important factors. It's the same thing when you go to a date and you feel there's something not quite there but you can't put your finger on it, and it's probably for a very, very good reason. Logic is overrated in these kind of decisions; don't underestimate feel/gut sense. I'm hesitating to say it's your best guide, but I do really think it is.

i would suggest ranking based on where you feel you would be most supported because ultimately that matters more than how much research is going on or what opportunities may or may not be on hand. it's NYC there are plenty of opportunities to get involved with projects somewhere if you have the drive and are willing to put the work in. i have residents and med students across the country working with me on variou

This. Also, don't underestimate the location factor in terms of opening up connections for you and pursuing your interests. This is rarely talked about.

And most fellowships are so noncompetitive that it's not really that hard to make it into an "ivy League" if that's your aim, regardless where you trained.

And I'm also a little skeptical about all the fancy research that goes on at SUNY. I interviewed there, they did mention that quite a few residents chose to pursue "the PhD track", except when I pubmedded some of those who graduated from the track I couldn't find anything. Not saying it's false, but keep a skeptical mind around all the promo the programs do. There are a lot of exaggerations and sometimes straight out lies.

 

[Wounded Healer]

I know that there is no such a thing as a perfect residency program, each program has their pros and cons. Ultimately, it is up to us what is more important to us, what we want to do and where we want to be. Still, it is soo difficult to decide!

Thank you so much to everyone who spends their time to answer my questions and guide me, I really appreciate! Your comments and suggestions had been very helpful and relieving. I hope everyone matches to a residency program that is a good fit for them and where they will be happy!

 

[anonymous1234567]

After a month of second guessing and changing order pretty much daily, I think I finally have my rank order list figured out...but now I have something new to stress about.

I have a question about Match etiquette/rules/violations if any of you PDs reading have an answer:

After one of my last interview days, I was really excited about that program and genuinely thought it would be my first choice program, so I mentioned that I was ranking that program first (unambiguously...I think my exact words were “I will be ranking your program 1st.”) to the PD in my thank you email after that interview day.

After a month of thinking things through and getting lots of advice and figuring out what’s actually most important to me in a program, I’ve now decided to rank that program second, rather than first.

Should I contact that PD and tell him/her that I’ve had a change of heart? Is (unintentionally) misleading/lying about rank order considered a match violation?

I obviously feel bad, and morally obligated to tell him/her, but I have no idea how to word such an email...”sorry, I decided I liked another program slightly more than yours...(but please don’t be offended... I still need you to rank me highly in case I don’t get my first choice because I do still like your program more than all the other places I interviewed and I would ultimately be happy to train at either program.)”

I don’t see any version of that going over well and I can’t think of a non-offensive and non-awkward way to relay this information.

Anybody (especially PDs) have any advice on how I should navigate this?

 

[Dharma]

Irrelevant. This is an anonymous board. I could tell you I've been out of training since you lost your first tooth and it would be meaningless. If Wounded Healer has doubts about what I am saying they can easily fact-check details such as post-residency placement of residents with the PDs, websites and other online resources. I simply hoped to provide the applicant with an alternative perspective.

So... you're still in med school?

 

[deleted368119]

So... you're still in med school?

Nope. But nice ad hominem.


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[Dharma]

Nope. But nice ad hominem.


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Hmm. I see.

 

[deleted368119]

Hmm. I see.

When's the last time you saw an optometrist?

 

[tellme_areyoufree]

After a month of second guessing and changing order pretty much daily, I think I finally have my rank order list figured out...but now I have something new to stress about.

I have a question about Match etiquette/rules/violations if any of you PDs reading have an answer:

After one of my last interview days, I was really excited about that program and genuinely thought it would be my first choice program, so I mentioned that I was ranking that program first (unambiguously...I think my exact words were “I will be ranking your program 1st.”) to the PD in my thank you email after that interview day.

After a month of thinking things through and getting lots of advice and figuring out what’s actually most important to me in a program, I’ve now decided to rank that program second, rather than first.

Should I contact that PD and tell him/her that I’ve had a change of heart? Is (unintentionally) misleading/lying about rank order considered a match violation?

I obviously feel bad, and morally obligated to tell him/her, but I have no idea how to word such an email...”sorry, I decided I liked another program slightly more than yours...(but please don’t be offended... I still need you to rank me highly in case I don’t get my first choice because I do still like your program more than all the other places I interviewed and I would ultimately be happy to train at either program.)”

I don’t see any version of that going over well and I can’t think of a non-offensive and non-awkward way to relay this information.

Anybody (especially PDs) have any advice on how I should navigate this?

It's not a match violation but you done goofed.

I don't have anything helpful to say, because you don't have a good choice to make there (be a liar or shoot yourself in the foot). You'll have to decide which bad choice you'll prefer. Silence might be the least bad option.

 

[splik]

Anybody (especially PDs) have any advice on how I should navigate this?

This is why you should not tell programs how you are ranking them until you have made your rank list (if at all). if the program director has any sense they will know things change and should not put much stock into such an email right after the interview. i would leave it be at this point, you may well end up there anyway! in the event you end up at your number one, unless you were really a highly ranked applicant at this other program, then they aren't going care/notice. if they do care and make a stink about it, then you lucked out by not ending up at a program with a narcissistic program director! since their ranking should not be swayed by how you plan to rank them, you do not have a moral obligation to tell them how you plan on ranking them now. the worst thing that could happen is you get black listed from said program in the future (which is a good thing!) just dont send anymore love letters to programs.

as an aside, when i was ranking programs way back when, my mentor inquired and was told i had a very good chance of matching at this program (my #1). well, i didn't match there. and they had MULTIPLE unfilled spots which means they didn't rank me at all. so programs aren't always honest or change their minds or whatever too. my mentor was so shocked they though i had lied about ranking this program #1

 

[anonymous1234567]

This is why you should not tell programs how you are ranking them until you have made your rank list (if at all). if the program director has any sense they will know things change and should not put much stock into such an email right after the interview. i would leave it be at this point, you may well end up there anyway! in the event you end up at your number one, unless you were really a highly ranked applicant at this other program, then they aren't going care/notice. if they do care and make a stink about it, then you lucked out by not ending up at a program with a narcissistic program director! since their ranking should not be swayed by how you plan to rank them, you do not have a moral obligation to tell them how you plan on ranking them now. the worst thing that could happen is you get black listed from said program in the future (which is a good thing!) just dont send anymore love letters to programs.

as an aside, when i was ranking programs way back when, my mentor inquired and was told i had a very good chance of matching at this program (my #1). well, i didn't match there. and they had MULTIPLE unfilled spots which means they didn't rank me at all. so programs aren't always honest or change their minds or whatever too. my mentor was so shocked they though i had lied about ranking this program #1

Thanks for the advice. And good to know that it’s not a Match violation. I know there is probably plenty of misleading happening (intentionally or not) on both the program and applicant sides- I just hate I didn’t choose my words more carefully (and more ambiguously). I really thought I had my mind made up. But oh well. Live and learn.

You’re probably right that it’s best to leave it be at this point and hope for the best. I guess I’ll just have to feel slimy for the next few weeks.

The one positive thing about the situation is that the 2 programs are on opposite coasts, so there’s pretty low odds that the PDs are going to communicate with each other about me.

 

[Doctorows]

Does anyone have any insight on how much research realistically happens at Montefiore during residency training, if any? There isn't much mentioned on their website, and I was so in love with them during my interview day, I can't even remember if that came up. I'm particularly interested in psychosis, though I don't intend on having a research (or maybe even academic at this point) career. Still, I'd love to have at least some exposure to it during training and want to keep that option open.

The obvious other choice here is Zucker Hillside, and I loved them as well, and academically they are the perfect program for me, but Montefiore just felt right during my interview day and I can't let go of that gut feeling... But I also don't want to give up my academic interests for a warm and fuzzy program. I thought I had it all figured out, but now that my rank list is certified I am so confused and have no idea how to rank the two relative to one another.

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

Does anyone have any insight on how much research realistically happens at Montefiore during residency training, if any? There isn't much mentioned on their website, and I was so in love with them during my interview day, I can't even remember if that came up. I'm particularly interested in psychosis, though I don't intend on having a research (or maybe even academic at this point) career. Still, I'd love to have at least some exposure to it during training and want to keep that option open.

The obvious other choice here is Zucker Hillside, and I loved them as well, and academically they are the perfect program for me, but Montefiore just felt right during my interview day and I can't let go of that gut feeling... But I also don't want to give up my academic interests for a warm and fuzzy program. I thought I had it all figured out, but now that my rank list is certified I am so confused and have no idea how to rank the two relative to one another.

Dr. Kane is an adjunct at AECOM if that'll make you feel better.

The chair at monte came and talked to us about his vision for research at the program. I don't remember what he said (but remember thinking highly of him if that matters)

 

[psychquestions2]

I currently have a hard time deciding between: UTSW, George Washington, BIDMC, UIC, UCSD, and Mt. Sinai Icahn. Location doesn't really matter. What I really want is the strongest possible training in community psychiatry, integrative care, and a strong CL program (with emphasis on outpatient CL). I tend to lean towards more of a biologic side of things but that's less important. I don't see myself doing a lot of research either. Thanks for your input.

 

[splik]

I currently have a hard time deciding between: UTSW, George Washington, BIDMC, UIC, UCSD, and Mt. Sinai Icahn. Location doesn't really matter. What I really want is the strongest possible training in community psychiatry, integrative care, and a strong CL program (with emphasis on outpatient CL). I tend to lean towards more of a biologic side of things but that's less important. I don't see myself doing a lot of research either. Thanks for your input.

FYI - integrative care is like acupuncture, homeopathy, coffee enemas, reiki and that sort of thing. I think you mean integrated care which is about psychiatry working closely with primary care or specialist medical care. out of the programs you mentioned GW has the strongest reputation for CL - both inpatient and outpatient followed possibly by BI.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Anybody (especially PDs) have any advice on how I should navigate this?

The previous PD before me tells a story about his first match. This was before the internet so it was all on paper and he was handed the list by the DIO's secretary. He looked at it and said "there must be a mistake". The DIO smiled and said "What's the matter, (begin patronizing baby voice) did someone promise you something..."

Don't worry, you are in good company. (Cue Frozen theme song, "Let it Go") We get this all of the time. Your best move is no further communication. You may see this PD again some day, but for all you know, you may not have been reached anyway.

 

[Monocles]

FYI - integrative care is like acupuncture, homeopathy, coffee enemas, reiki and that sort of thing.

One of these things is not like the other :0

 

[sportssososo]

Anyone have insight into the workload and culture at OHSU and University of Colorado? Posts in previous years have described both as workhorse programs/possibly borderline "malignant" but I didn't get that vibe at all from either on interview days. Also, does OHSU have 6-7 weeks of night float second year (as on their website) or 13 weeks (as reported in one of the reviews here and I vaguely remember hearing on interview day)? Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[stealthaf]

I currently have a hard time deciding between: UTSW, George Washington, BIDMC, UIC, UCSD, and Mt. Sinai Icahn. Location doesn't really matter. What I really want is the strongest possible training in community psychiatry, integrative care, and a strong CL program (with emphasis on outpatient CL). I tend to lean towards more of a biologic side of things but that's less important. I don't see myself doing a lot of research either. Thanks for your input.

If you're not interested in research, I would rank BIDMC and Mt Sinai lower. Theyre both known as heavy research programs

 

[raeka]

Feel solid on my top 4 and bottom 4. Really uncertain about the middle, mostly due to location. Priorities for me = well-rounded clinical experiences and good opportunities in addiction psych. Decent cost of living and work-life balance are a plus but not a deal-breaker for the right place--I'm not afraid of working hard, but would prefer to avoid programs that work residents to the bone without much educational value.


Penn
Yale
Emory
University of Colorado
UIC
Michigan
Wash U
Iowa
MUSC
Montefiore
Vanderbilt
University of Louisville
University of Chicago
Case Western/UH


UIC ended up being a wild card for me and I am feeling uncertain about ranking it above programs like Michigan and Wash U that may open more doors for me or provide more rigorous clinical training. Certain elements of the curriculum at UIC were very appealing and I loved all the faculty I met with, but I'm not sure about living in Chicago. I keep flipping back and forth on Michigan vs Wash U too.

Also feeling uncertain about how to rank Iowa, MUSC and Montefiore. Not sure how they compare with respect to reputation for graduating quality clinicians. MUSC definitely has the best opportunities as far as addiction, but I'm not a huge fan of Charleston. Obviously Iowa and Montefiore are extremely different but I liked them both equally for very different reasons. Trying to weigh the boredom of Iowa vs the intensity of living in the Bronx.

Sorry to bump my own post..

Does anyone have any thoughts on these 5 programs for someone looking for excellent, well-rounded clinical training and good addiction experience, with decent cost of living/work-life balance being an added bonus?

Wash U v University of Michigan
Iowa vs MUSC
UIC

Thanks!

 

[FlowRate]

I currently have a hard time deciding between: UTSW, George Washington, BIDMC, UIC, UCSD, and Mt. Sinai Icahn. Location doesn't really matter. What I really want is the strongest possible training in community psychiatry, integrative care, and a strong CL program (with emphasis on outpatient CL). I tend to lean towards more of a biologic side of things but that's less important. I don't see myself doing a lot of research either. Thanks for your input.

AFAIK, you will not find strong OUTPATIENT CL at most places in Boston. There are fledgling faculty trying to get things going, but it's not a strong point.

If you're not interested in research, I would rank BIDMC and Mt Sinai lower. Theyre both known as heavy research programs

This is untrue w/r/t BIDMC. I'm sure BIDMC is happy to have hard working folks who simply want to be excellent clinical psychiatrists. That said, it's not a bad place to be for research.

 

[WingedOx]

AFAIK, you will not find strong OUTPATIENT CL at most places in Boston. There are fledgling faculty trying to get things going, but it's not a strong point.

TBH, outpatient CL tends to miss more than hit in most places with only a few exceptions. A lot of programs are flirting with integrated primary care stuff, but for a resident that's usually a lot of really uninteresting pathology.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Sorry to bump my own post..

Does anyone have any thoughts on these 5 programs for someone looking for excellent, well-rounded clinical training and good addiction experience, with decent cost of living/work-life balance being an added bonus?

Wash U v University of Michigan
Iowa vs MUSC
UIC

Thanks!

None of these will hurt you at all.
Iowa will have lowest COL, but probably the least clinical diversity, so that's a trade-off.
I'm personally partial to...Michigan, just because I know a number of the attendings there, and most of them are, well, just great people to hang around with and learn from. But that's purely personal opinion.
Beyond that, I'd say it comes down to how you feel about Chicago vs. St. Louis, or Charleston vs. the Midwest.

 

[Mighty Muse]

I am curious on any other opinions concerning the Institute of Living, Rutgers RWJ, HSS, and Tufts. Is it crazy to put some of these programs above Vanderbilt and Emory because of location preference (NE)?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I am curious on any other opinions concerning the Institute of Living, Rutgers RWJ, HSS, and Tufts. Is it crazy to put some of these programs above Vanderbilt and Emory because of location preference (NE)?

Not if you'd strongly prefer to live in the NE.

 

[Mighty Muse]

Not if you'd strongly prefer to live in the NE.

If my goals are to ultimately shoot for a CAP fellowship at the upper tier programs in the NE (NYC mainly), would this strong preference hurt/hinder those odds?

 

[clausewitz2]

TBH, outpatient CL tends to miss more than hit in most places with only a few exceptions. A lot of programs are flirting with integrated primary care stuff, but for a resident that's usually a lot of really uninteresting pathology.

I am sure splik will appear to school me, but i can only muster enthusiasm for doing this in specialty clinica. For example, our program is embedded in the outpatient neurology clinics and we have dedicated transplant psychiatry and psycho-oncology outpatient services. We're also in several pain clinical as psychiatrists and not as psych-trained pain specialists but that seems like a very different animal.

 

[raeka]

None of these will hurt you at all.
Iowa will have lowest COL, but probably the least clinical diversity, so that's a trade-off.
I'm personally partial to...Michigan, just because I know a number of the attendings there, and most of them are, well, just great people to hang around with and learn from. But that's purely personal opinion.
Beyond that, I'd say it comes down to how you feel about Chicago vs. St. Louis, or Charleston vs. the Midwest.

Thank you, that's very reassuring. UIC is one of the 5 I have the most concerns about, mostly because 2 advisors at my medical school made very disparaging comments about it when I mentioned I was thinking of ranking it very highly. I really loved it but I'm concerned about the reputation it holds nationally, and whether it would hold me back at all if I wanted to practice back home out east in an academic setting.

 

[WingedOx]

I am sure splik will appear to school me, but i can only muster enthusiasm for doing this in specialty clinical. For example, our program is embedded in the outpatient neurology clinics and we have dedicated transplant psychiatry and psycho-oncology outpatient services. We're also in several pain clinical as psychiatrists and not as psych-trained pain specialists but that seems like a very different animal.

Yeah, this. Embedded primary care clinics are kind of a waste of a resident's time. Specialty care with a legit mentor on the other hand is a legit learning experience, but not many programs have them.

 

[WingedOx]

Thank you, that's very reassuring. UIC is one of the 5 I have the most concerns about, mostly because 2 advisors at my medical school made very disparaging comments about it when I mentioned I was thinking of ranking it very highly. I really loved it but I'm concerned about the reputation it holds nationally, and whether it would hold me back at all if I wanted to practice back home out east in an academic setting.

Well UIC and NW have traditionally been the big 2 in Chicago, though right now I think the consensus is that NW is ahead of them if only because they poached a couple big faculty members from UIC in the last couple years, but UIC certainly isn't going to hold you back from academics given the amount of research they have access to there, plus they've got a (new?) clinician educator track that looks interesting.

There are a couple UICers and other Chicago people floating around on this board if you have specific concerns to PM.

 

[Evidence Based]

If you were to pick between BIDMC and Montefiore, which one would you choose and why? Assuming location doesn't matter, although the latter does offer subsidized housing very close to the hospital, which may be a big factor? Factor enough to outweigh the BIDMC/Harvard opportunities for future career growth?

What's important to you? Would you rather be in Boston or NYC? I was under the impression that BIDMC and Monty are pretty different programs (patient population, academic opportunities, etc), although I only interviewed at Beth Israel.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

If my goals are to ultimately shoot for a CAP fellowship at the upper tier programs in the NE (NYC mainly), would this strong preference hurt/hinder those odds?

Probably help a teensy bit--mainly by increasing your level of familiarity with your options.

 

[Mass Effect]

AFAIK, you will not find strong OUTPATIENT CL at most places in Boston. There are fledgling faculty trying to get things going, but it's not a strong point

There are 4 programs in Boston that have outpatient CL as part of their CL fellowship. I don't know if these are available to residents though. Integrated care is becoming a thing, but as said above, most of it seems to be primary care clinics these days. Hopefully, more will expand to the specialty clinics.

 

[Mighty Muse]

Probably help a teensy bit--mainly by increasing your level of familiarity with your options.

I sincerely appreciate your assistance! When going through my list, I couldn't help but feel like I'm short-changing myself by ranking arguably lesser known programs higher due to location.

 

[splik]

I am sure splik will appear to school me, but i can only muster enthusiasm for doing this in specialty clinica. For example, our program is embedded in the outpatient neurology clinics and we have dedicated transplant psychiatry and psycho-oncology outpatient services. We're also in several pain clinical as psychiatrists and not as psych-trained pain specialists but that seems like a very different animal.

primary care psychiatry is painful. id rather gouge my eyes out. but then general psychiatry is equally awful. embedded neurology, transplant, or psycho-oncology services are NOT integrated care though. embedding a psychiatrist in a clinic is usually co-location at best. in true integrated care models, there is a care manager who fields the referrals, they follow measurement based practice, provide time limited evidence-based psychotherapies, the psychiatrist does not see most of the patient, and makes recs based on chart review and discussion with the care manager, and only sees the more complex patients. ideally, there should be a consultation based model (i.e. psychiatrist doesn't treat, prescribe, manage pts) and participates in team meetings or is otherwise recognized as an important part of the multidisciplinary team.

 

[Doc1401]

If my goals are to ultimately shoot for a CAP fellowship at the upper tier programs in the NE (NYC mainly), would this strong preference hurt/hinder those odds?

Program wise they do not compare to Emory for psychiatry but you will do best where you are happiest. If you excel in a middle tier program you can still land great fellowships