OMT/OMM

[DOFOSHO]

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[DOFOSHO]

I guess my experience is a little different. While I'll agree that Cranial and Chapman's are BS. For the most part, I thought the stuff I learned first year is pretty useful.

I don't know much about other school, but at the one I went to they hammered in basic anatomy. In terms of boards, MSK and anatomy is one of my strongest section with the least amount of studying. Several classmates agree, even the ones that dislike OMT.

 

[wjs010]

Define useful. I think most non kool aid drinkers feel the same way. Cranial, Chapmans, and some other stuff are horse manure. The other more reasonable stuff may or may not provide some relief with little downside. OMM is like suggesting a nap to a patient. It may or may not make them feel better but probably won't hurt.

As for cervical HVLA, venture into the Emergency Medicine forums. There is a literally a discussion right now about how several physicians agree they see a couple vertebral artery dissections a year with history of recent chiropractor/HVLA adjustments.

Are these dissections also from DOs? They always told us cervical hvla is like 1 million times safer than NSAIDs. Also, if you have a negative spurling test , shouldn't you have a relatively safe cervical hvla technique? I guess I'm wondering if these were innocuous techniques or if they were done poorly ( asian med/chiro). I actually don't know why I'm wondering, since I don't like OMM. Lol

 

[ortnakas]

Are these dissections also from DOs? They always told us cervical hvla is like 1 million times safer than NSAIDs. Also, if you have a negative spurling test , shouldn't you have a relatively safe cervical hvla technique? I guess I'm wondering if these were innocuous techniques or if they were done poorly ( asian med/chiro). I actually don't know why I'm wondering, since I don't like OMM. Lol

Spurling's is about compressed nerve roots, not the vertebral artery.

Definitely in the not-a-fan-of-cervical-HVLA camp myself.

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[jw3600]

Are these dissections also from DOs? They always told us cervical hvla is like 1 million times safer than NSAIDs. Also, if you have a negative spurling test , shouldn't you have a relatively safe cervical hvla technique? I guess I'm wondering if these were innocuous techniques or if they were done poorly ( asian med/chiro). I actually don't know why I'm wondering, since I don't like OMM. Lol

I'm sure they did. They also taught you cranial.

 

[hallowmann]

...As for cervical HVLA, venture into the Emergency Medicine forums. There is a literally a discussion right now about how several physicians agree they see a couple vertebral artery dissections a year with history of recent chiropractor/HVLA adjustments.

To be fair virtually all of those cases are chiropractic cases gone bad. Most studies I saw had single digit cases of adverse cervical HVLA events by DOs and triple digit cases with chiropracters. If you look at some chiro videos, they go practically to the anatomic barrier with the thrust. We were constantly told we should be nowhere close to it.

I still don't plan on using any cervical HVLA ever again though. Not comfortable with it at all.

Are these dissections also from DOs? They always told us cervical hvla is like 1 million times safer than NSAIDs. Also, if you have a negative spurling test , shouldn't you have a relatively safe cervical hvla technique? I guess I'm wondering if these were innocuous techniques or if they were done poorly ( asian med/chiro). I actually don't know why I'm wondering, since I don't like OMM. Lol

What, seriously? There are some DO schools that don't even let the students practice cervical HVLA. At first my school was like you don't have to follow through with the thrust unless you're comfortable with it. Now the new director seems to want to see the real thing. Still not going to do it again.

 

[wjs010]

To be fair virtually all of those cases are chiropractic cases gone bad. Most studies I saw had single digit cases of adverse cervical HVLA events by DOs and triple digit cases with chiropracters. If you look at some chiro videos, they go practically to the anatomic barrier with the thrust. We were constantly told we should be nowhere close to it.

I still don't plan on using any cervical HVLA ever again though. Not comfortable with it at all.



What, seriously? There are some DO schools that don't even let the students practice cervical HVLA. At first my school was like you don't have to follow through with the thrust unless you're comfortable with it. Now the new director seems to want to see the real thing. Still not going to do it again.

Yea they backed it up with "research" in the PowerPoint too.

 

[DrZed]

Well I've personally helped a family friend be able to walk straight who walked with a hump for as long as I knew her.

I threw out my radial head twice in a day both exquisitely painful. First treatment from a classmate got it all better, threw it out again because I'm an idiot, got a friend to fix it, sat out the rest of the day with no pain or anything. Went from deep aching muscle pain to 0 pain and could enjoy the rest of my vacation in under 5 minutes of treatment.

Had a chronic cough that caused me to throw a rib out and pain with every breath. NSAIDs and inhaler obviously didn't work. After almost 3 months of pain with every breath, I gave up and went to a professor. Fixed it in 2 minutes with immediate relief and 0 pain since.

I'm not saying OMT works for everything, but for basic anatomical dysfunction, I don't see why it's so hard to think it can't help. Heck, having a tenderpoint go away is enough for me to say counterstrain makes some difference.

At my school, most of the basic techniques that I found helpful in reducing pain I learned first year. Second year was where all the crazy stuff in OMT starting popping up.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I threw out my radial head twice in a day both exquisitely painful.

threw it out again

caused me to throw a rib out and pain with every breath.

Real osteopaths don't throw, they fling.

 

[wjs010]

Well I've personally helped a family friend be able to walk straight who walked with a hump for as long as I knew her.

I threw out my radial head twice in a day both exquisitely painful. First treatment from a classmate got it all better, threw it out again because I'm an idiot, got a friend to fix it, sat out the rest of the day with no pain or anything. Went from deep aching muscle pain to 0 pain and could enjoy the rest of my vacation in under 5 minutes of treatment.

Had a chronic cough that caused me to throw a rib out and pain with every breath. NSAIDs and inhaler obviously didn't work. After almost 3 months of pain with every breath, I gave up and went to a professor. Fixed it in 2 minutes with immediate relief and 0 pain since.

I'm not saying OMT works for everything, but for basic anatomical dysfunction, I don't see why it's so hard to think it can't help. Heck, having a tenderpoint go away is enough for me to say counterstrain makes some difference.

At my school, most of the basic techniques that I found helpful in reducing pain I learned first year. Second year was where all the crazy stuff in OMT starting popping up.

You threw out a rib?

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[wjs010]

no, dude. its impossible to "throw out" a rib. its a made up story (aka "case") just like all the others.

I once inhaled so forcefully that I created an inhaled rib and used inhalation to fix the problem

 

[DocVapor]

I once inhaled so forcefully that I created an inhaled rib and used inhalation to fix the problem

You must have been inhaling the spirit of AT Still.

 

[ortnakas]

What, seriously? There are some DO schools that don't even let the students practice cervical HVLA. At first my school was like you don't have to follow through with the thrust unless you're comfortable with it. Now the new director seems to want to see the real thing. Still not going to do it again.

Our year's semester on cervical with the new course director started with all sorts of lectures on how he wanted us to feel safe and comfortable.... and then being able to follow through with the thrust turned out to be crucial for the final. Still planning on doing it as little as I possibly can.

 

[GUH]

no, dude. its impossible to "throw out" a rib. its a made up story (aka "case") just like all the others.

It is also technically incorrect to describe a patient as having "thrown out" his back. It is a term used colloquially to describe when someone experiences a sudden, sharp pain in the area in question (such as the back), particularly while doing some activity. Patients can experience a sudden onset of sharp pain to any part of their body. That doesn't mean that we automatically get to say that the patient has "made up" a story. Try telling that to an attending on rotations with as little information as you have!

If you are not aware that ribs, like vertebrae, can experience tenderness and asymmetry, then you shouldn't have passed even your first year of osteopathic medical school.

Likely you are perfectly aware but you have decided that you don't like osteopathic medicine and are too afraid to leave the profession, so you will criticize and judge while simultaneously exercising all of the powers and privileges associated with being a DO or DO student.

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[GUH]

I'm actually fully aware of the layman-to-medical translation of "to throw out." Thank you for your elaboration. In addition to knowing about tenderness and asymmetry, I'm also familiar with range of motion and tissue texture changes - 2 things you failed to mention which makes me doubt your own competence as an osteopathic medical student. Some things OMM can't treat, such as your overly defensive attitude. Luckily there is a medicine for that, and it has evidence and clinical trials on real people to support its therapeutic benefit.

Be snarky all you want, I just hope that you don't/didn't try to pull the "the patient must be faking since he said he threw out his rib" crap on rotations.

 

[DOFOSHO]

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[Kevin Baker]

It is also technically incorrect to describe a patient as having "thrown out" his back.

If you are not aware that ribs, like vertebrae, can experience tenderness and asymmetry, then you shouldn't have passed even your first year of osteopathic medical school.

Likely you are perfectly aware but you have decided that you don't like osteopathic medicine and are too afraid to leave the profession, so you will criticize and judge while simultaneously exercising all of the powers and privileges associated with being a DO or DO student.

We were taught all these rib somatic dysfunctions entail the bony rib itself being stuck out of place along with subsequent TART changes. Call me a skeptic but when every other med student and every hospital pneumonia patient gets diagnosed with a rib dysfunction, and when most dysfunctions are ribs 1-7, the ones with the strongest ligament connections and the hardest to dislocate, I get suspicious. Add in no radiological evidence of rib dislocation and I start calling shenanigans. I'm happy to treat the psychomusculo pain but let's not start claiming the bone is actually out of place. We're not chiros

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Just got an email from the AOA to fill out a survey about how they can better serve the profession or some such nonsense. I assume all DO students will get this. Tired of OMM bs like cranial (or OMM in general)? Tired of the COMLEX existing? Tired of no unified match date? Then take a little time and FILL IT OUT!

 

[magicdo]

since we're on the subject of OMM. What study resources do you all recommend? I just saw this new card in the bookstore that looks good (Pub:Bruckmeier) but just wondering what other people use? Some say Savarese.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

since we're on the subject of OMM. What study resources do you all recommend? I just saw this new card in the bookstore that looks good (Pub:Bruckmeier) but just wondering what other people use? Some say Savarese.

Are you talking about boards or class?

 

[ortnakas]

since we're on the subject of OMM. What study resources do you all recommend? I just saw this new card in the bookstore that looks good (Pub:Bruckmeier) but just wondering what other people use? Some say Savarese.

Savarase is gold.

There's an iPhone app called "OMM Guide" that's handy as a quick reference, but more for looking up a technique in the hallway before a quiz, not for actual studying/understanding.

 

[maral.morta]

I need a tutor for some OMT/OMM multiple choice questions, is anybody able to help me? I really want to learn the concepts and I have some trouble understanding. I'm OMS I, and really need your help.

Thanks

 

[Roxas]

I need a tutor for some OMT/OMM multiple choice questions, is anybody able to help me? I really want to learn the concepts and I have some trouble understanding. I'm OMS I, and really need your help.

Thanks

So I'm confused, do you need an OMM tutor? Your 8 posts in various threads on the subject haven't cleared that up yet

 

[Dharma]

Likely you are perfectly aware but you have decided that you don't like osteopathic medicine and are too afraid to leave the profession, so you will criticize and judge while simultaneously exercising all of the powers and privileges associated with being a DO or DO student.

EDIT: I just saw how old this post is. Oops. Still, I keep it here.

I don't think he means harm; just letting off some OMM-lab induced steam. Not sure it's fair (or even logical) to expect someone to leave DO school because they don't like OMM. (How many DOs would there be if this were the case? At least half, I'm guessing). Let's face it, there is a lot of BS a DO student has to deal with and sometimes OMM lab/class does not bring out the best in every student. Unfortunately it reaches the point of such extreme resentment that students are completely turned off, treat is as a nuisance they have to deal with, pass the class, and never look back again. Some of them will go as far as badmouthing this skill set they probably never even approached becoming competent at but instead barely went through the motions to pass. A lot of this resentment comes from the more esoteric practices such as cranial and the better-than-MDs attitude a lot of faculty spew.

OMM is a nice set of skills one can have as a physician but it is not necessary to have and not all of us will have the level of skill (or talent for the matter) to perform at a high level. That said, as DOs we should respect the skill set and at least pay notion to the fact that a lot of this stuff works.