Organic Chemistry has violated me countless times

[apumic]

My point was that a lot of this advice was so general as to be useless. If the OP really hasn't figured out that he/she needs to know the basics, read the textbook, do problems, go to tutorials, and so on, he/she doesn't belong in college in the first place.
Imagine someone asking "how do I get out of debt" and you get a bunch of people saying, "spend less than you earn". Or someone who wants to lose weight, and people say "exercise and watch what you eat". The point is that this is obvious, lazy advice. I mean, it's OK, it's an SDN forum, but there has to be a better way.
The real challenge is in HOW to go from feeling hopeless and lost to making genuine progress, and giving hyper-specific action steps, in my opinion, is more helpful than blanket statements about "learning the basics"

And yet in each case you mentioned, it IS what people need to do.

To get out of debt you must make PLAN a STRATEGY to SPEND LESS than you make. Yes, it's obvious. No, people are not smarter than the obvious. People are lazy. They want shortcuts. Sometimes, things need to be said. Sure, helping someone come up w/ a strategy can be helpful but at the end of the day, the strategy they come up w/ and decide to follow is going to be the best method for them.

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[UpQuark]

If you make a big deal out of Orgo, it will make a big deal out of you! It's NOT HARD, just crap ton of memorization (as you might know already)

Practice, practice, practice, and more practice, that's the key. I never read the book, just did problems.

 

[orthomyxo]

You could just not care and get a B while slaughtering all your other classes. That works quite well.

I had probably the best year of my life while in Orgo and nothing but science classes even though they sucked.

You can do it.

This sounds like good advice...I may have to follow it. Hopefully no gunners destroy the curve though

 

[SpaceDementia]

Sorry to tell you, but it gets much harder.

I loved organic, though. The key for me was truly understanding what's going on and actually visualizing and thinking about structures and mechanisms. It's all conceptual and intuitive, and memorizing will do you no good.

 

[Ottovon]

Ahhh....has anyone noticed that half the people say memorization while others say understanding? I obviously want to understand the material.

And we're not even UP TO mechanisms yet...that's Orgo II.

I'll do as many practice problems as I can.

 

[roseglass6370]

Ahhh....has anyone noticed that half the people say memorization while others say understanding? I obviously want to understand the material.

And we're not even UP TO mechanisms yet...that's Orgo II.

I'll do as many practice problems as I can.

I'm still in Orgo I, but please do yourself a favor and don't memorize. Everyone I've talked to that did exceptionally well in Organic allowed themselves to actually understand the material. If you understand why reactions occur the way they do, you can become capable of solving a reaction you've never seen before. That's what I've been told by numerous individuals.

 

[Ottovon]

I hope people still read this thread.

Thank you all for your advice. It has helped me in deciding what I need to do for this class. However, I still have a question I hope you all can answer. I'm making a list of what I have to say below so it's easier to read...(no tl;dr please!)


1.) I understand that practice problems are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Many of you have said do AS MANY as I can get my hands on. Do them over and over and as I keep doing them, I'll understand how the concepts fit together. Essentially, practice problems = understanding organic chemistry.

Now, this might be a minor question regarding that advice, but should I LITERALLY do every problem I can find? For example, my textbook has questions that directly relate to understanding the concepts, but there are also problems that require an extra-leg in thinking and applying knowledge. Oftentimes, it is these 'harder' problems that seem to convolute the material for me because I become confused on the concepts. I try to think the problems through, get lost in my thinking process, and end up looking at the answer key. This leads to discouragement and frustration and I end up wasting a lot of time focusing on single problems. I know this signifies gaps in my understanding, but these are for the 'harder' problems. For the more basic ones, I think I'm doing okay. Still...do every problem? The 'common-sense' answer is that it'll only help, I'm assuming. But is that what you all have done?

By the way, I attend tutoring sessions and study almost everyday. Except my studying feels counterproductive for some reason. I feel like my studying:hours spent studying ratio is very disproportional. Although this could be my lack of confidence speaking. I'm not sure- in lecture, I seem to be know what I'm doing.



2.) What I wrote above has been bothering me A LOT lately. I'm not unfocused, it's not that I don't know how to deal with the material, it's not that I don't "belong in college" (really? My situation is pretty normal, so excuse your arrogance here). Instead, I've realized that Organic Chemistry requires revamping your thought process. At least for me, I like subjects where you can derive certain steps and rules to follow (like Gen Chem...at least it worked that way for me). Organic Chemistry isn't about steps-- you really have to think and apply the material. Maybe that's where my trouble is too. Ah...


3.) ALSO, my textbook is by Maitland Jones (this super-renown professor) but the textbook is not even that helpful in my opinion. Does anyone have a good supplemental textbook they would recommend?

 

[imasadpanda]

Hmm here is what worked for me:

Read the book! Seriously...read it.

But most important, do ALL of the practice problems in the book. Memorization did not help me at all, save for some nomenclature, pKa values, and acidity trends. It's the repetition that really drove it in.

I got A's in ochem (that's what we call it in Oregon), so I know it works.

I spent probably 20+ hours a week and I didn't have much of a life for 9 months, but my hard work paid off. I tried to plan one day a week of no ochem, but the rest of the time I was pretty much studying.

Hope that helps.

 

[Pisiform]

ok, so I really feel the word 'violated' a bit awkward (Just my personal opinion). It sound like Organic Chem raped you and took advantage of your weakness !!

 

[Ottovon]

Hmm here is what worked for me:

Read the book! Seriously...read it.

But most important, do ALL of the practice problems in the book. Memorization did not help me at all, save for some nomenclature, pKa values, and acidity trends. It's the repetition that really drove it in.

I got A's in ochem (that's what we call it in Oregon), so I know it works.

I spent probably 20+ hours a week and I didn't have much of a life for 9 months, but my hard work paid off. I tried to plan one day a week of no ochem, but the rest of the time I was pretty much studying.

Hope that helps.

Ah. Literally every problem? Even those that would frustrate you because they were meant to test if you could apply the material in a whole different way? As opposed to the problems that tested you simply on the concepts.

 

[orthomyxo]

3.) ALSO, my textbook is by Maitland Jones (this super-renown professor) but the textbook is not even that helpful in my opinion. Does anyone have a good supplemental textbook they would recommend?

I'm using the same book, and I hate it. It does a fairly good job of explaining things, but at the same time it expects you to be a master of what you just read in order to understand what's happening on the next page. Kinda dumb IMO.

Also, the practice problems at the end are like ridiculously hard compared to the ones inserted into the chapter, so I know exactly how you feel when you need to look at the answer key. It's really annoying since I completely understand what's being said when I read the book, but when I get to these I'm lost.

 

[Ottovon]

I'm using the same book, and I hate it. It does a fairly good job of explaining things, but at the same time it expects you to be a master of what you just read in order to understand what's happening on the next page. Kinda dumb IMO.

Also, the practice problems at the end are like ridiculously hard compared to the ones inserted into the chapter, so I know exactly how you feel when you need to look at the answer key. It's really annoying since I completely understand what's being said when I read the book, but when I get to these I'm lost.

Maitland Jones is also my Orgo professor. My university graced us students with his presence. He is pretty good in lecture and is brilliant, but his textbook requires going over multiple times.

 

[wlee43]

I have the Maitland Jones book too, so annoying to read it

 

[roseglass6370]

Ottovon,

My advice would be to YES do EVERY problem. Even the ones that challenge you and frustrate you! If you can get through those problems, then you can probably get through any test the prof throws at you. Also, you said yourself that your instructor wrote the book. I'm assuming his tests won't be too far off either! Be over-prepared! It can't hurt!

The book I use is McMurry. My prof told me it's the most popular ochem book in the U.S. I think it's great!! I've also heard Organic Chemistry as a Second Language helps too.

 

[plzNOCarribbean]

Organic is one of the most enjoyable classes in undergrad. its true when they say "its the best liberal arts class you will ever take"; The subject makes perfect sense, as long as you don't go about learning it by trying to memorize everything ( like most bio majors do).

The classes teaches you a specific type of problem solving that is not offered in other courses; Some problems are solved forwards; others are solved backwards; and sometimes, there is more than one way to get to an answer. If you read, and do all the necessary problems, you should be fine. I have taken both Orgo I and II and now I am a TA and tutor for organic. I have used the McMurry book and yes it is terrific, but an even better book is the one written by Janice Smith. They book is hands down, the easiest book to follow. I would HIGHLY recommend it. Gluck. Don't get too stressed out.

 

[akay00]

Ok I am going to give you a resource that was INVALUABLE to me. It is called youtuBe. lol FREELANCETEACH just give it a little search.. this guy is a little slow but it is actually very helpful if you are struggling.. but make sure you are doing the problems with him and listen to everything he says. sometimes you dont catch it the first time.. watch it again to review and realize there was something quite fundamental that you did not understand.

BTW.. i would still highly suggest supplementing this with the text. I found it easier to watch the videos.. then read the text relating to the concept covered n the vids. you will find nearly everything in orgo covered by his vids.

i aced the course GL


OH AND YES YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST DO THE PROBLEMS IN THE BOOK.THE SOLUTIONS GUIDE IS ESSENTIAL

 

[OMGitsME]

to the OP,

I am in the same position you are, i am taking ochem also now, and its kicking my but.

I just feel like the sheer volume of information i am trying to memorize and at the same time learn what and how everything works, is alot. I do have to say, even though ochem is harder, i like it better than gen.chem.

I got my self a little erasable board bc of the ridic amount of drawing i am doing and erasing i do to practice structures.

After reading the posts in this thread, i ordered the , Ochem second language book.

My schools text book is, Solomons O.Chem, in my opinion from the first 3 chapters, i dont think the book can teach in a good manner, it seems to jump to much and not provide with enough detail in the right sections.

About the amount of time you put in, i feel the same way, the amount i put in compared to the amount i am learning is so little, i cant help but feel a little discouraged also. But i am going to put in a lot more time on the weekend.

 

[orgohacks]

I hope people still read this thread.

Thank you all for your advice. It has helped me in deciding what I need to do for this class. However, I still have a question I hope you all can answer. I'm making a list of what I have to say below so it's easier to read...(no tl;dr please!)


1.) I understand that practice problems are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Many of you have said do AS MANY as I can get my hands on. Do them over and over and as I keep doing them, I'll understand how the concepts fit together. Essentially, practice problems = understanding organic chemistry.

Now, this might be a minor question regarding that advice, but should I LITERALLY do every problem I can find? For example, my textbook has questions that directly relate to understanding the concepts, but there are also problems that require an extra-leg in thinking and applying knowledge. Oftentimes, it is these 'harder' problems that seem to convolute the material for me because I become confused on the concepts. I try to think the problems through, get lost in my thinking process, and end up looking at the answer key. This leads to discouragement and frustration and I end up wasting a lot of time focusing on single problems. I know this signifies gaps in my understanding, but these are for the 'harder' problems. For the more basic ones, I think I'm doing okay. Still...do every problem? The 'common-sense' answer is that it'll only help, I'm assuming. But is that what you all have done?

By the way, I attend tutoring sessions and study almost everyday. Except my studying feels counterproductive for some reason. I feel like my studying:hours spent studying ratio is very disproportional. Although this could be my lack of confidence speaking. I'm not sure- in lecture, I seem to be know what I'm doing.



2.) What I wrote above has been bothering me A LOT lately. I'm not unfocused, it's not that I don't know how to deal with the material, it's not that I don't "belong in college" (really? My situation is pretty normal, so excuse your arrogance here). Instead, I've realized that Organic Chemistry requires revamping your thought process. At least for me, I like subjects where you can derive certain steps and rules to follow (like Gen Chem...at least it worked that way for me). Organic Chemistry isn't about steps-- you really have to think and apply the material. Maybe that's where my trouble is too. Ah...


3.) ALSO, my textbook is by Maitland Jones (this super-renown professor) but the textbook is not even that helpful in my opinion. Does anyone have a good supplemental textbook they would recommend?

This is great - very detailed description of the problem. This psychological issue is one of the main barriers to doing well in ochem.

First of all not all problems are created equal. The easiest types of problems are more like "exercises" - they're designed to get you to practice to master a specific skill, like figuring out formal charge, drawing Lewis structures, turning structural formulas into line drawings, determining whether two molecules are isomers, rank acidity/basicity, etc. They test *one* thing and they are repetitive. Solomons is notorious for having questions with umpteen exercises like this - they are a real grind.

More difficult problems combine two or more of the skills/exercises together. For instance, "draw all Lewis structures of X and determine which resonance form is most stable". Draw isomers of X and determine which will have highest boiling point.

Even more difficult problems will combine three or more - you'll see this on your midterm, where you'll be asked to convert a line drawing to a Newman and using the stereochemistry, determine if a certain type of reaction will happen, for which you might also have to apply your knowledge of say, acid-base strengths. Chemistry is like this - building layers and layers of skills and concepts upon each other, and they all interconnect. These will be typical exam type questions for a tough course like Jones'.

Without being able to see your specific question, it's essential to do the "exercise" type problems to the point where you are routinely rocking them and they start to seem trivial.

The higher-order type problems come in many varieties and may require a specific trick or insight. It might be best to focus your attention - hard - on them for 15 minutes or so, and if you get stuck, stop. Try to break down the question into components - what specific concepts are being tested? What specific skills? How good is your command of them? Can you go back and test yourself on simpler applications of them? You might need to turn the problem around in the back of your mind.

In my experience Jones is the textbook that has the most thought-provoking questions and hence the most difficult. If it's any consolation, you are going to be an orgo machine when it comes time for MCATs.

BTW dude, I hope you understood I was implying that you were smart enough to already understand that to do well you have to study, attend tutorials, and work problems. No offense intended. That goes for SDN'ers in general, who have the intelligence and courage to ask for questions when they are struggling.

Sorry for the long post

 

[Mitch556]

Do problems over and over. And get a solution manuel. Very helpful.

 

[Dr Lennox]

I'm in week 2 of Organic Chemistry and I'm feeling SO discouraged. I was really good at Chemistry (and I know that Orgo and Chem don't really relate) so I was hoping Orgo would be interesting since I like theory, but it's not working out so well. It SERIOUSLY freaks me out. I can't make Friday night plans without thinking how far I am in my Orgo reading .

How does one study for Organic Chemistry? Please don't say memorization (I've seen this answer a lot of times on StudentDoc) because my professor believes in application of the material rather than giving us basic-testing concept problems. I have seen on this forum that "Organic Chemistry for Dummies" is a really useful book and I might get it. How much does it really help?

How many hours a day did you study or Orgo/O-chem? I'm trying to dedicate everyday to studying it but it takes a long time to read so I end up not getting much done. I try to absorb the information, go back, review, etc.

My life has really been taken over by this class and Biology. I'm just feeling really discouraged.

HELP PLEASE. Anyone who survived this.....THING....share your wisdom! (I'm....serious......>=( ). Thanks!

There are professors who know how to design an exam so skillfully that it will defeat nearly all attempts at memorization. The average on such exams is a 25%. This is meant to be certain that only the best of students become physicians.

Let's suppose you have a patient come to you with symptoms you've never seen before. How well will your memory serve you after having memorized every diagnosis there is to memorize?

Medical schools know you have good memories. They receive several times more applicants than they need with good memories. What medical schools want, now more than ever, is a highly developed aptitude for deductive reasoning.

One last thing. You're training to become a physician, a professional, and you're having a pity party for yourself in a public forum. "Organic chemistry has violated me..." Please lose the victim mentality. If you want to become a professional, then perhaps it will suit your ambitions to start acting like one, taking complete accountability for your actions as well as your inactions.

My best students put in a 60-hour work week studying, and they get into the medical schools of THEIR choosing. Once there, they work 80-100 hours per week. While earning my doctorate, I worked 120 hours per week. This is what you're up against. This is what you're competing with. People with determination so powerful they will do anything with integrity to succeed. This is the shape of things to come.

 

[beethousand]

If you're feeling really discouraged, maybe focus on some quick wins first.

Quick wins = fast things you can memorize NOW that will pay huge dividends later on in the course.
This is a tactic to just get your feet moving, then you can start worrying about the big stuff, like what's in "Organic Chemistry as a Second Language". There's a lot of big stuff, but you need to use the time at the beginning to get the small stuff down. Baby steps first.
Here's some ideas for getting started, things that are within your control to do.

1. Names of functional groups, for instance. There's about 16. Get their names down. Be able to write them from memory, lone pairs included. When I say "hydroxyl" you should immediately be able to picture an OH group. This is straight memorization. You'll use this for nomenclature at first, but it will become increasingly important as you get into reactions.

2. Electronegativities. This is key. Get the order straight, because electronegativity plays a huge role in all the chemistry you're going to learn. A workable mnemonic is the following: F,O,N (Phone) Cl (call), Br (be right back), C, S, I (CSI is on), P, H (please hold).
Look at your functional group table. Using electronegativities, which bonds are polarized? Which atoms are going to be partially positive and which will be partially negative? This is a BIG DEAL, this determines the behavior of these groups - their acidity, basicity, nucleophilicity and electrophilicity (worry about those two terms later).
Chemistry is all about negative charge going to positive charge. Nucleophile attacks electrophile. You'll learn about this later.
3. Look at your pKa table. Get the order straight. Strong acids have weak conjugate bases. Those weak conjugate bases iodide, bromide, chloride, sulfate, etc. - pay attention, they're going to come up soon as "leaving groups" in a number of reactions.
Again with your functional group table, you should be able to put the following acidities in order: amine, carboxylic acid, alcohol (or water), alkyne C-H, alkane. Maybe thiol if you're feeling frisky. These are the basics, you can elaborate later. But pKa plays a huge role in reactivity.

4. Terms. Go through chapter 1 and 2 of your textbook, look at the vocabulary at the end. You should know those terms from memory. Not verbatim, but be able to explain to someone what they are. Enlist your roommate or something. Involve someone else in your studying if at all possible. Your parents probably would love to hear from you, try explaining these concepts to them.

5. Orbitals. Sigma bonding, pi bonding, s and p orbitals - learn them, know them, tattoo them on you somewhere. I plug Steven's videos all the time even though he has no idea who I am - here's one specific to hybridization - http://is.gd/fbBWk . His full website is http://www.freelance-teacher.com/videos.htm. 30 minutes on the hybridization/bonding videos should get you cleared up, they are crystal.

6. Solidify your knowledge and find the gaps by doing problems.

7. Double down for now. Focus on these things, they are the foundation that the later parts of the course will build on. This is big-boy time. Memorization of the things at the *beginning* part of the course is OK, people screw up when they try to memorize things near the end - all the reactions, for instance. That's when books like Klein's come in handy.
It is like a language. What you're learning right now is vocab, the grammar comes later. Whatever way you can find to memorize - flashcards, writing things out, whatever - use it. You can make quizzes for free on memorize.com and quizlet. Give these a shot, they're useful. You'll even find people who made these quizzes themselves.

Hope this helped. Best of luck - James

This is good advice. Learn the importance of electronegativity and it's effect on reactivity, effects of electron withdrawing/donating groups on the strength of nucleophiles and electrophiles. Be able to recognize what contributes to resonance and what has an inductive effect. When looking at a molecule be able to recognize the most acidic and basic portions. Learn to recognize what makes a carbocation/radical most stable. Once you get some of these basic concepts down, life gets a lot easier. You start to get a chemical intuition for what is an electrophile (wants electrons) and what is a nucleophile (gives electrons and attacks the electrophile) and can better predict how things will react. For everything else I'd pretty much recommend flash cards, tons of practice problems and your model kit to start understanding stereochemistry. I was absolutely overwhelmed when I first started and through a lot of the year, as I thought this wasn't my forte. I think it's easy to let the class intimidate you, and there's certainly a lot of hype. Don't feed off of other people's anxiety. Work hard and practice with other people and you will be just fine. Good luck.

 

[apumic]

There are professors who know how to design an exam so skillfully that it will defeat nearly all attempts at memorization. The average on such exams is a 25%. This is meant to be certain that only the best of students become physicians.

Let's suppose you have a patient come to you with symptoms you've never seen before. How well will your memory serve you after having memorized every diagnosis there is to memorize?

Medical schools know you have good memories. They receive several times more applicants than they need with good memories. What medical schools want, now more than ever, is a highly developed aptitude for deductive reasoning.

One last thing. You're training to become a physician, a professional, and you're having a pity party for yourself in a public forum. "Organic chemistry has violated me..." Please lose the victim mentality. If you want to become a professional, then perhaps it will suit your ambitions to start acting like one, taking complete accountability for your actions as well as your inactions.

My best students put in a 60-hour work week studying, and they get into the medical schools of THEIR choosing. Once there, they work 80-100 hours per week. While earning my doctorate, I worked 120 hours per week. This is what you're up against. This is what you're competing with. People with determination so powerful they will do anything with integrity to succeed. This is the shape of things to come.

I thought Easter fell on a Sunday most years...so why are you Resurrecting things on a Saturday?

 

[Dr Lennox]

I thought Easter fell on a Sunday most years...so why are you Resurrecting things on a Saturday?

There is a phrase that has been popularized for some time, "Today is a good day to die." That's one way of looking at life. I prefer, however, "Today is a good day for a resurrection." It's more upbeat and cheery!

Well-trained professionals know that resurrections can come unexpectedly at any given moment. The past is always part of the present. It just so happens that, on some days, it's a part far more ignored than others.

Interestingly, it is Sunday in Beijing, and a few other places too.

 

[Dr Lennox]

This is good advice. Learn the importance of electronegativity and it's effect on reactivity, effects of electron withdrawing/donating groups on the strength of nucleophiles and electrophiles. Be able to recognize what contributes to resonance and what has an inductive effect. When looking at a molecule be able to recognize the most acidic and basic portions. Learn to recognize what makes a carbocation/radical most stable. Once you get some of these basic concepts down, life gets a lot easier. You start to get a chemical intuition for what is an electrophile (wants electrons) and what is a nucleophile (gives electrons and attacks the electrophile) and can better predict how things will react. For everything else I'd pretty much recommend flash cards, tons of practice problems and your model kit to start understanding stereochemistry. I was absolutely overwhelmed when I first started and through a lot of the year, as I thought this wasn't my forte. I think it's easy to let the class intimidate you, and there's certainly a lot of hype. Don't feed off of other people's anxiety. Work hard and practice with other people and you will be just fine. Good luck.

If I were to incorporate principles of conformational analysis of a bicyclic ring system into an elaborate problem based upon a simple E2 mechanism, then how would memorization help people if the problem I design is one that's never been seen before? Keep in mind, this is week 8/30 of O-Chem.

What if I asked for a detailed graphic explanation, without use of pKa numbers, to rank the relative acidities in an alkane, alkene and alkyne, all bearing four carbons? This is week 2/30 of O-Chem.

What if I asked a question requiring the ranking of functional groups (never seen before by the student) in direct accordance with decreasing IR stretching frequency? For some people, this is week 4/30 of O-Chem. At Cal Tech, this is General Chemistry.

What if I asked an NMR question, all focusing on one single proton in a spectrum, as a function of magnetic anisotropy of surrounding groups not directly attached to the carbon bearing the proton? Groups far enough away that induction has no significance? This is week 12 of O-Chem.

What if I asked for an 10-step retrosynthesis? How many people are able to memorize the synthesis of every molecule in reverse?

What if I tested you for an EAS reaction using a Lewis acid to trigger a biomimetic polyene cyclization?

How about an intramolecular Diels-Alder reaction leading to the formation of a macro-tricycle having an ee of 100%.

This list can become enormous. However I believe I have made my point.

Dependence upon memorization is a "comfortable glove" that results in more O-Chem issues than anything else. If the student spends the first ten weeks, under LOW risk conditions, building deductive reasoning skills, then relying upon those skills will not be frightening in O-Chem weeks 11-30. If these skills are not built by week 11-14, the risk of departing from memorization to something uncomfortable will become far too great.

Do yourself a favor. Break the habit of memorization by week 5. If you succeed in doing this, the effort will pay off.

There's only one other person on this thread sufficiently qualified to address the issues I've indicated, and that man has my complete respect.

If you go to a self-help group, and a Ph.D. clinical psychologist with 25 year of clinical experience gives you advice, will you listen to him/her? If at that same self-help group, there is a first year education graduate student (she took 2 psychology courses), would you listen to her? If you could choose only the advice of one person, to whom would you listen?

When you get teaching professionals giving you free advice, and then ignore it, you're making a less than optimal choice. Still, the choice is yours.

 

[rfvbnmju]

If I were to incorporate principles of conformational analysis of a bicyclic ring system into an elaborate problem based upon a simple E2 mechanism, then how would memorization help people if the problem I design is one that's never been seen before? Keep in mind, this is week 8/30 of O-Chem.

What if I asked for a detailed graphic explanation, without use of pKa numbers, to rank the relative acidities in an alkane, alkene and alkyne, all bearing four carbons? This is week 2/30 of O-Chem.

What if I asked a question requiring the ranking of functional groups (never seen before by the student) in direct accordance with decreasing IR stretching frequency? For some people, this is week 4/30 of O-Chem. At Cal Tech, this is General Chemistry.

What if I asked an NMR question, all focusing on one single proton in a spectrum, as a function of magnetic anisotropy of surrounding groups not directly attached to the carbon bearing the proton? Groups far enough away that induction has no significance? This is week 12 of O-Chem.

What if I asked for an 10-step retrosynthesis? How many people are able to memorize the synthesis of every molecule in reverse?

What if I tested you for an EAS reaction using a Lewis acid to trigger a biomimetic polyene cyclization?

How about an intramolecular Diels-Alder reaction leading to the formation of a macro-tricycle having an ee of 100%.

This list can become enormous. However I believe I have made my point.

Dependence upon memorization is a "comfortable glove" that results in more O-Chem issues than anything else. If the student spends the first ten weeks, under LOW risk conditions, building deductive reasoning skills, then relying upon those skills will not be frightening in O-Chem weeks 11-30. If these skills are not built by week 11-14, the risk of departing from memorization to something uncomfortable will become far too great.

Do yourself a favor. Break the habit of memorization by week 5. If you succeed in doing this, the effort will pay off.

There's only one other person on this thread sufficiently qualified to address the issues I've indicated, and that man has my complete respect.

If you go to a self-help group, and a Ph.D. clinical psychologist with 25 year of clinical experience gives you advice, will you listen to him/her? If at that same self-help group, there is a first year education graduate student (she took 2 psychology courses), would you listen to her? If you could choose only the advice of one person, to whom would you listen?

When you get teaching professionals giving you free advice, and then ignore it, you're making a less than optimal choice. Still, the choice is yours.

I hope OP is done w/ Ochem by now..

 

[alpinism]

There are professors who know how to design an exam so skillfully that it will defeat nearly all attempts at memorization. The average on such exams is a 25%. This is meant to be certain that only the best of students become physicians.

Let's suppose you have a patient come to you with symptoms you've never seen before. How well will your memory serve you after having memorized every diagnosis there is to memorize?

Medical schools know you have good memories. They receive several times more applicants than they need with good memories. What medical schools want, now more than ever, is a highly developed aptitude for deductive reasoning.

One last thing. You're training to become a physician, a professional, and you're having a pity party for yourself in a public forum. "Organic chemistry has violated me..." Please lose the victim mentality. If you want to become a professional, then perhaps it will suit your ambitions to start acting like one, taking complete accountability for your actions as well as your inactions.

My best students put in a 60-hour work week studying, and they get into the medical schools of THEIR choosing. Once there, they work 80-100 hours per week. While earning my doctorate, I worked 120 hours per week. This is what you're up against. This is what you're competing with. People with determination so powerful they will do anything with integrity to succeed. This is the shape of things to come.

60 hrs a week studying for classes in undergrad?

If you need that much time to get a A in undergrad, of course you'll need to study 80hrs a week in med school...to barely pass your classes.

120 hrs a week in grad school?

Lol this should sound familiar: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~azuma/grad.day

 

[Urnathok]

Nothing like a comparison to a sophomore science class and sexual violation to remind you that rape culture is consistent, if nothing else.

At any rate, Organic is a problem solving class; you get better at solving problems by solving more problems. Best thing for me in Organic was to go to my book and work a bunch of problems. Set up shop with a classmate one evening and have a synth party.

 

[487806]

There are professors who know how to design an exam so skillfully that it will defeat nearly all attempts at memorization. The average on such exams is a 25%. This is meant to be certain that only the best of students become physicians.

Let's suppose you have a patient come to you with symptoms you've never seen before. How well will your memory serve you after having memorized every diagnosis there is to memorize?

Medical schools know you have good memories. They receive several times more applicants than they need with good memories. What medical schools want, now more than ever, is a highly developed aptitude for deductive reasoning.

One last thing. You're training to become a physician, a professional, and you're having a pity party for yourself in a public forum. "Organic chemistry has violated me..." Please lose the victim mentality. If you want to become a professional, then perhaps it will suit your ambitions to start acting like one, taking complete accountability for your actions as well as your inactions.

My best students put in a 60-hour work week studying, and they get into the medical schools of THEIR choosing. Once there, they work 80-100 hours per week. While earning my doctorate, I worked 120 hours per week. This is what you're up against. This is what you're competing with. People with determination so powerful they will do anything with integrity to succeed. This is the shape of things to come.

Good advice, but alas, the OP stopped visiting SDN after 2011.

 

[Urnathok]

Oh wow, lookit that, 2010.

 

[jw3600]

Nothing like a comparison to a sophomore science class and sexual violation to remind you that rape culture is consistent, if nothing else.

At any rate, Organic is a problem solving class; you get better at solving problems by solving more problems. Best thing for me in Organic was to go to my book and work a bunch of problems. Set up shop with a classmate one evening and have a synth party.

He rustled your jimmies 3 years into the future. Very impressive OP.

 

[huskerdye]

I wrote the reaction mechanisms over and over until they were memorized.. My organic professor offered pretty good advice the first day of class, "regions of electron affinity react with regions of electron deficiency"

If you memorize the reactions, understand the functional groups, and remember that last line you will fine! Good luck!

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I'm in week 2 of Organic Chemistry and I'm feeling SO discouraged. I was really good at Chemistry (and I know that Orgo and Chem don't really relate) so I was hoping Orgo would be interesting since I like theory, but it's not working out so well. It SERIOUSLY freaks me out. I can't make Friday night plans without thinking how far I am in my Orgo reading .

How does one study for Organic Chemistry? Please don't say memorization (I've seen this answer a lot of times on StudentDoc) because my professor believes in application of the material rather than giving us basic-testing concept problems. I have seen on this forum that "Organic Chemistry for Dummies" is a really useful book and I might get it. How much does it really help?

How many hours a day did you study or Orgo/O-chem? I'm trying to dedicate everyday to studying it but it takes a long time to read so I end up not getting much done. I try to absorb the information, go back, review, etc.

My life has really been taken over by this class and Biology. I'm just feeling really discouraged.

HELP PLEASE. Anyone who survived this.....THING....share your wisdom! (I'm....serious......>=( ). Thanks!

I never even did readings, I just remember working through reaction mechanisms and retrosynthesis. try to notice the patterns in reaction mechanisms. It's really all just geometry and understanding how electronegativity influences the reaction

 

[vadeem]

Frankly I hardly even touched my orgo book, only rarely to clarify concepts. Your success in O-chem will depend almost entirely on how many practice problems you do prior to tests. You should thoroughly workout each and every practice problem your professor gives you, no matter how difficult the problem may be. If you're stuck on a particular problem/concept, use the internet. Seriously, google is your best friend. You may benefit from going to your professor's office hours, but I don't think it's necessary. Bottom line, don't waste time reading. Orgo is just like math, you need to practice to become proficient at it (a LOT of practicing, it's very time-consuming).

 

[Selah]

"Organic Chemistry has violated me countless times."

OP--please develop more sensitivity before you become a physician. If you had ever done countless rape evals in the ER, you would never dream of using the word "violated" in this context. Sure, Organic Chemistry is hard, but it is not comparable to being raped.

 

[GatsbyK]

I think orgo is known as the "weeder" of pre-meds in my school. We usually get 1000+ people into chemistry freshman year. Some in pre-med others for their electives. About 600 students hit organic chemistry, some with chemistry majors and others with pre-med track. It usually narrows it down to about 200 students at the end of the entire ordeal.

My advice to you from a organic chemistry TA with a poor background in the sciences at first, is to do LOTS of problems. If you have a chemistry tutor center, welcome to your new home! You will need to do problems KNOW HOW you got the question right and why the other problems are wrong. This helps solidify your understanding of the course. TBH its a lot of electron moving, bond forming / breaking, and overall just molecular visualization when its down to problem solving.