Over 9000 EM residents

[2021Doctor]

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Glad to see we will be at $150/hr nationwide very soon.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

View attachment 344152

View attachment 344153

Would you share the source please?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

View attachment 344152

View attachment 344153

Will be interesting to see the application numbers this year. I feel like the word has gotten out that this is not the specialty to be pursuing.

 

[2021Doctor]

Would you share the source please?

ACGME public information.

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

 

[southerndoc]

Glad to see we will be at $150/hr nationwide very soon.

With that surplus, nurses will be paid more than physicians. Certainly PA's and NP's will be the same. Then again, I think the NP market has been flooded for a while. Their pay hasn't decreased, but many of them cannot find jobs.

Out of curiosity, how many spots for family and internal medicine?

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

With that surplus, nurses will be paid more than physicians. Certainly PA's and NP's will be the same. Then again, I think the NP market has been flooded for a while. Their pay hasn't decreased, but many of them cannot find jobs.

Out of curiosity, how many spots for family and internal medicine?

Medicine: 31,116
FM: 14,874
Peds: 9,538
Surg: 9,371
EM: 9,099
Psych: 7,430
Anesthesia: 7,149

 

[Tenk]

 

[EctopicFetus]

Check mate. We lose. Keep in mind we only need 50-60k eps and that includes rural eds. At 3k per year and given that many are so young we won’t just have over a 10k surplus in 2030. We will have a 20k surplus shortly after. But the acep gods say the future is bright. Did anyone on here see the Facebook posts about the EM residencies at hca?

 

[CajunMedic]

Then again, I think the NP market has been flooded for a while. Their pay hasn't decreased, but many of them cannot find jobs.

Between the mass exodus of nurses and our ridiculous boarding situation, my system is now hiring NP's with ED experience (mostly the ones that left for NP school) that will work 2-person teams exclusively in the waiting room. They'll alternate Nurse/NP roles between patients, since the nursing assessment and discharge can only be done by exclusively the nursing role; to treat and street whatever low acuity patients they can

 

[southerndoc]

Between the mass exodus of nurses and our ridiculous boarding situation, my system is now hiring NP's with ED experience (mostly the ones that left for NP school) that will work 2-person teams exclusively in the waiting room. They'll alternate Nurse/NP roles between patients, since the nursing assessment and discharge can only be done by exclusively the nursing role; to treat and street whatever low acuity patients they can

That's both a creative solution and a limitation imposed by your system. Hospital bylaws dictate what should be done by a nurse. You can change that so that physicians, techs, etc. can remove IV's and allow physicians to hand someone their paperwork. When we're really short staffed, I'll take out a patient's IV while going over their discharge information and discharge them myself.

 

[Rekt]

Check mate. We lose. Keep in mind we only need 50-60k eps and that includes rural eds. At 3k per year and given that many are so young we won’t just have over a 10k surplus in 2030. We will have a 20k surplus shortly after. But the acep gods say the future is bright. Did anyone on here see the Facebook posts about the EM residencies at hca?

Didn't HCA spew some nonsense about them not realizing it was an issue and they'll consider it as they open more residencies. Such a joke.


"I don't know what a CMG is." "The future is bright!" - acep president.

 

[skougess]

That's both a creative solution and a limitation imposed by your system. Hospital bylaws dictate what should be done by a nurse. You can change that so that physicians, techs, etc. can remove IV's and allow physicians to hand someone their paperwork. When we're really short staffed, I'll take out a patient's IV while going over their discharge information and discharge them myself.

No disrespect but I really disagree with that philosophy. It’s what allows admin to get away with chronic understaffing. “We don’t need to hire more nurses, southerndoc will just do even MORE work when we are understaffed!”

 

[southerndoc]

No disrespect but I really disagree with that philosophy. It’s what allows admin to get away with chronic understaffing. “We don’t need to hire more nurses, southerndoc will just do even MORE work when we are understaffed!”

Yea, I agree with you. I have mixed feelings about it. I don't want it to become a norm and accepted practice (much like physicians in NYC start their own IV's), but at the same time, I don't want a patient just sitting around waiting on a nurse who is overworked to be discharged while I'm surfing the web or staring at the nurse working his/her tail off.

 

[skougess]

Yea, I agree with you. I have mixed feelings about it. I don't want it to become a norm and accepted practice (much like physicians in NYC start their own IV's), but at the same time, I don't want a patient just sitting around waiting on a nurse who is overworked to be discharged while I'm surfing the web or staring at the nurse working his/her tail off.

I think the answer is to let them flail and let them quit to be replaced by travel nurses at $6k/week, and let patients leave without being seen. The only thing that speaks to admin is their pocketbooks.

 

[HeyDalaron]

View attachment 344182

 

[GeneralVeers]

I think the answer is to let them flail and let them quit to be replaced by travel nurses at $6k/week, and let patients leave without being seen. The only thing that speaks to admin is their pocketbooks.

Agree completely. I don't do any ancillary tasks. I'm happy to watch Netflix on my laptop while patients wait due to nursing "shortages". Let's be truthful though, the nursing "shortage" is just cost-cutting on the part of hospitals. Like any market-driven commodity they could get enough nurses if they paid enough, and improved the work environment. By helping take the IV out, handing patients discharge paperwork, and other tasks, you are just facilitating big fat bonuses for the admins.

 

[CajunMedic]

Yea, I agree with you. I have mixed feelings about it. I don't want it to become a norm and accepted practice (much like physicians in NYC start their own IV's), but at the same time, I don't want a patient just sitting around waiting on a nurse who is overworked to be discharged while I'm surfing the web or staring at the nurse working his/her tail off.

We're starting to get the "You know, If you can help the nurses by putting them on the monitor, starting their IV. etc. they'd appreciate it" from admin. I don't mind doing it when the patient is sick and it's all hands on deck, or they're really busy. But, I'm afraid they'll try to make it the norm.

I think the answer is to let them flail and let them quit to be replaced by travel nurses at $6k/week, and let patients leave without being seen. The only thing that speaks to admin is their pocketbooks.

I spent last month on an administration elective, I actually posed the question if anyone had attempted a cost-benefit analysis of keeping the nurses happy, upping their pay vs. the ridiculous amounts they pay for travelers. No one could give me a real answer.

 

[southerndoc]

I spent last month on an administration elective, I actually posed the question if anyone had attempted a cost-benefit analysis of keeping the nurses happy, upping their pay vs. the ridiculous amounts they pay for travelers. No one could give me a real answer.

I think many healthcare systems look at it being easier to hire a new grad than to retain experienced nurses. Experienced nurses have gotten raises. New grads start at the bottom of the pay scale.

 

[GeneralVeers]

We're starting to get the "You know, If you can help the nurses by putting them on the monitor, starting their IV. etc. they'd appreciate it" from admin. I don't mind doing it when the patient is sick and it's all hands on deck, or they're really busy. But, I'm afraid they'll try to make it the norm.

They absolutely will make this the norm if you let them. Just like how they figured doctors can call patients from the waiting room and put them in rooms for exam at my place. Anything you do to "help" will inevitably just make it your responsibility in the future.

I spent last month on an administration elective, I actually posed the question if anyone had attempted a cost-benefit analysis of keeping the nurses happy, upping their pay vs. the ridiculous amounts they pay for travelers. No one could give me a real answer.

 

[turkeyjerky]

They absolutely will make this the norm if you let them. Just like how they figured doctors can call patients from the waiting room and put them in rooms for exam at my place. Anything you do to "help" will inevitably just make it your responsibility in the future.

"It is the expectation, going forward, that procuring sandwiches and blankets for patients will be a physician-only task."

 

[Rekt]

They absolutely will make this the norm if you let them. Just like how they figured doctors can call patients from the waiting room and put them in rooms for exam at my place. Anything you do to "help" will inevitably just make it your responsibility in the future.

It becomes a much different story when every shop is forcing a move to RVU based care. Lazy ass nurses or admin understaffing directly cuts your paycheck.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I am in an RVU heavy system. I do a lot of non doc tasks. I then torture the Admin on Call. I suffer they suffer. Things have gotten better for now. Still below the line of what is acceptable.

The ACA screwed docs. If I could fully run my ED nurses techs x ray etc I would. They are incredibly short sighted from a business perspective. I saw long ago that FI had to be achieved ASAP. Mission accomplished.

Young docs save money and invest wisely. Spend later.

 

[namethatsmell]

Hypothetical HCA Admin A: Wooohoooo, we've finally laid the groundwork to destroy EM! Their loss is our bonus.

Hypothetical HCA Admin B: Hooooray! What's next?

A: Well, I'm getting tired of having to pay nurses in real people money during this pandemic thingy. It's way more expensive than the guilt and pizza parties that normally works. It's making my bonus hurt.

B: So...what do we do?

A: Let's start a new nursing program! We take anybody with a GED and put them through a rigorous our month program. And at the end they'll get their...HCA-RN!

B: [head explodes secondary to trying to process just how big a boat the resultant bonus will get him]

 

[GeneralVeers]

It becomes a much different story when every shop is forcing a move to RVU based care. Lazy ass nurses or admin understaffing directly cuts your paycheck.

Yes, and that's the bad part. To actually see patients and make money I have to pull them from the waiting room.