path sub-internships

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hematogone

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I am a 4th year med student with some up-coming path sub-i's in surg path and hemepath.

I have been told there isn't a really standard way to prepare for these and to basically show up eager and willing to learn. So far I've done a 3rd year selective rotation in path where I got to spend time with attendings in surg path, hemepath, cytopath, and some others going through cases. I did get to observe the grossing and frozens, but never actually did them myself.

Is there any really good way to prepare for these? Would it be fine to just learn on the job - with regard to grossing, frozens, and spending time at the scope? I've firmly been told to not do anything beforehand and just show up with a positive attitude and happy to learn. But the OCD side of me wonders if at the very least maybe I should brush up with Robbins, or maybe even get a grossing manual plus a Rosai's. Or something else to that effect..

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

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I am a 4th year med student with some up-coming path sub-i's in surg path and hemepath.

I have been told there isn't a really standard way to prepare for these and to basically show up eager and willing to learn. So far I've done a 3rd year selective rotation in path where I got to spend time with attendings in surg path, hemepath, cytopath, and some others going through cases. I did get to observe the grossing and frozens, but never actually did them myself.

Is there any really good way to prepare for these? Would it be fine to just learn on the job - with regard to grossing, frozens, and spending time at the scope? I've firmly been told to not do anything beforehand and just show up with a positive attitude and happy to learn. But the OCD side of me wonders if at the very least maybe I should brush up with Robbins, or maybe even get a grossing manual plus a Rosai's. Or something else to that effect..

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

No dont get Rosai, that is beyond what you need to know at this point. Sounds like you have the right plan...just show up willing to learn and I would recommend learn as much as possible. Jump on every learning opportunity (tumor boards, M&Ms, etc) without coming across as a gunner or annoying. That way when you start residency you will be ahead of the game. Get your basic histology down. Oh yeah read about your cases in Robbins. If you want to consult any other book when it comes to reading about your cases, I am sure the program will have it in their library.
 
Second this.

No dont get Rosai, that is beyond what you need to know at this point. Sounds like you have the right plan...just show up willing to learn and I would recommend learn as much as possible. Jump on every learning opportunity (tumor boards, M&Ms, etc) without coming across as a gunner or annoying. That way when you start residency you will be ahead of the game. Get your basic histology down. Oh yeah read about your cases in Robbins. If you want to consult any other book when it comes to reading about your cases, I am sure the program will have it in their library.
 
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Second this.

i'm applying to match into path and so i did 4 path rotations last year (3 mo worth). i would say that i shined more on clincal path (my area of interest and b/c i have research experience and a strong background in it) and sometimes during surgpath rotations felt a little lost - not that didn't know what we were looking at under the scope but more so that i didn't have clear expectations of me and that the personalities tended to be more intense (dunno if its b/c they interact more often with surgeons but some of them def had the surgeon personality in terms of expectations). i got some good advice later on (which would've helped had i known b4) so i'll pass that on to u.

1) read up on your cases - if u know ahead of time that u r sitting w/ say the gi person that day, read up on gi in robbins/wheater and def know the normal histo so that u can at least answer the 'what tissue is this?' question at least. if there's sth u don't know during sign-out, write it down (though be disruptive or look disinterested in doing this...u can wait til after to write urself a note if its better) and really do look it up when u have some free time. when i had signout at cdc (did a public health/infectious disease path rotation), there was always some obscure thing that i didn't know at signout but i showed interest by reading up on it and letting them know what i learned at signout the next day (this showed that i actually did look it up, too). if attendings/residents/etc spend their time/effort to teach/ask u sth, show some respect (take notes or at least don't not know what they're asking if they ask u about what they taught u the next day - don't look up on ur phone, i got scolded for this twice early on, read up, and let them know that u r making an effort w/o being obnoxious)

2) find a resident who is willing to teach or help u - sometimes, its hard to know how things r done in the dept, find info like who is assigned to what rotation if u r doing more than just one thing like surgpath (most of my rotations were tailored so i rotated thru multiple subspecialties), or where anything is - find someone who u can tell (it could be the clerkship director, too) that u're interested in spending some time in x (eg - autopsy where its unpredictable when one will come but the resident on that service will get a page and if s/he knows ahead of time that u'd like to go, then they'll come find u and u don't miss out on an opp); i had a good resident who would ask what i wanted to do the next day, then she'd introduce or take me to the resident on that service (eg - blood bank) and let them know i'd be spending the day with them and set up anything else that had to be done wrt whatever i wanted to see that day

3) be helpful - offer to do scut like writing down the weights/findings during autopsy or take pictures during autopsy, etc (the attendings usu appreciate this b/c their gloves get nasty)

4) whenever there is sth extra (unknown conf, tumor board, cp or ap noon conference, etc), go if u have nothing else u're assigned to do then...sometimes u might be rewarded w/ free food, too, and it shows interest plus gives u a broader view of the profession and u might learn sth

5) ask if there are any slide boxes of cases/interesting slides that u can preview (there often r and i didn't know this til i got scolded for not "showing interest" b/c i didn't ask to look at these at an early rotation - the attending said that another student at my school the year b4 would just take those boxes and spend the whole day looking at them and that b/c of that she thought he was "more interested") and if u can maybe sit with one of the nice residents afterwards to go over them (or u can just preview and skip this step if u don't get good vibes from a resident that they'd be willing to spend time with u - always remember, that they also have service responsibilities and that teaching u is not nec their #1 duty so always be appreciative if they do); also ask ur fav resident on surgpath if u can preview their slides b4 signout together with the attending (after they've previewed them of course) and come up with ur own thoughts b/c they might ask u questions at signout so show that u took this seriously

6) if they don't require u to do a presentation at the end of the rotation (2 of mine required it), then offer to do one on an interesting case - they tend to prefer if its one u found while on rotation but i did one that i had at nih rotation b/c i had actual bone marrow bx pix. one place (a competitive one) was impressed b/c they never had a med student offer or do a presentation at their noon conf b4. ask a resident to help by pointing out what might a good case to u from signout (they might need to help u get the info from the emr if u don't have access) and ask them if they'd be nice enough to look over ur rough ppt and give u some feedback to refine it b4 u actually give the presentation.
 
Useful words, though I had to try Google Translate for sections of that last post -- 'the alchemist', I totally and sincerely appreciate and largely agree with what I think you said, I just have a tough time interpreting when people use text shorthand I had hoped went out with the 90's, at least if they want me to get through it and understand their point. It's one thing when it's short, on a phone, etc., and another when it's 7 paragraphs and around a couple pages worth. YMMV. :D

Pathology as a student is unfortunately often a mess, in part because most programs seem to have no idea what they expect from you and those that do may end up with a harsh reputation since most other programs let you slide. To top it off most medical schools just don't teach real world pathology, so almost everyone comes in as a total newbie. I think Robbins or reasonable equivalent is a very fair, accessible text to accompany a medical student rotation, and is something you need for general med school anyway. I have doubts about the utility of letting a student wander off alone with a box of slides, even labeled ones, as most students have no foundation upon which to build with those slides; most students are getting their first and only taste of pathology on this rotation, so locking them up in a room with a microscope I'm not sure helps them understand the big picture, though I suppose it gives them a taste of what surg path is like as a resident. It's perhaps useful towards the end of a rotation.

Otherwise I pretty much agree -- "showing interest" and being professional but social, while not being annoying, comes in a lot of forms, but going to multidisciplinary conferences with pathology, offering to take notes particularly during autopsy or ferry materials around the department/hospital, doing some basic Robbins reading on selected cases, not wandering off for a 4 hour brunch, etc. all can count. Every minute you save an attending/resident is time they can later focus on teaching you something, giving you advice about the specialty, or giving you time to gross something, or whatever, rather than you just being along for the ride.
 
Useful words, though I had to try Google Translate for sections of that last post -- 'the alchemist', I totally and sincerely appreciate and largely agree with what I think you said, I just have a tough time interpreting when people use text shorthand I had hoped went out with the 90's, at least if they want me to get through it and understand their point. It's one thing when it's short, on a phone, etc., and another when it's 7 paragraphs and around a couple pages worth. YMMV. :D

hehe, thx. i try not to use a lot of shorthand exc for obvious ones, but maybe i do a lot of it w/o noticing...and yeah, i can be verbose (not always the most organized my thinking and quite ADD sometimes).

yeah, i did find that most times on path rotations, they didn't know what to do w/ students. sometimes they acted surprised as if i was their 1st ever student...hehe, which was hard when one's used to being expected to do a lot of scut, etc and if one's not doing something, they think you're lazy or unfocused. but i did really enjoy my rotations and it confirmed that path is for me.
 
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