Pharm.D. or M.D.

[tungsten87]

I wish I would have went to medical school. This has nothing to do with money at all. There is by far more job satisfaction, more opportunities and more choices in terms of what you can do after medical school.

What drives me nuts about this profession is that we are all acting like the sky is falling and that there is always doom and gloom. Maybe pharmacists should act on their beliefs and wishes instead consistently whining about poor working conditions, loss of salary and jobs etc. Honestly, get up and do something about it. Make yourself more appealing for jobs with more stability. Fight for a job worth fighting for. For far too long pharmacists have been handed jobs and that has disappeared. Now you have to work for what you have, the game has changed.

We are also the most poorly organized profession by far. We have 45 different organizations wanting the same thing, but yet we cannot seem to unify more then a half dozen supporters.

I didn't join this profession for the money, I did it because I enjoyed pharmacology and the science behind drugs. I enjoy being able to provide a unique service and sometimes be able to help out the almighty MD make therapy choices. Too many people in this profession allow it to be marginalized and watered down so much that only 5% of pharmacists are practicing pharmacy the way it ought to be done. Its far from the utopia that school tells you.

This. It seems as if I entered this profession for the same reason(s) that you did. I have a ton of interest in genetics, pharmacology, etc and I signed up for pharmacy school looking to do pharmd/phd or pharmd/residency/fellowship from the beginning.. it's not a question of time commitment or money for me. Some of the schools I interviewed at made it seem like pharmacogenetic testing would be available within the next few years in hospitals and pharmacists would be able to expand their role here. What a crock of ****. This is very far off, and even when/if it does come into practice, it will be physicians who will be in charge of this. I guess I should partially blame myself for being naive but you also must place blame on the schools for selling a false dream. Why would I get a PharmD/PhD when I could go to medical school and have better luck with NIH funding and actually have the skills to perform medical procedures. All pharmacists have is compounding which has all but been eliminated in this day and age. Other than that pharmacy is a purely "cerebral" profession.

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[PharmaTope]

^ that and this.

[YOUTUBE]9QS0q3mGPGg[/YOUTUBE]

lol someone reported it to the mods!!!!

i guess the truth hurts

 

[smq123]

I agree. The lack of our ability as a profession to get a large enough group together to make a difference is something that has dissappointed me. One thing that can be said is that MD's stick together to protect their profession, while we allow the bastardization of ours.

I was surprised to read this, because one of the biggest gripes in the physician residency forums is how LITTLE MDs/DOs are doing to protect their profession.

From nurse practitioners/CRNAs telling us that they can do our jobs better than we can, to the government telling us how much paperwork they think we need to fill out , to (again) the government telling us how little they value care for the most vulnerable members of our society by threatening to slash Medicare reimbursements by over 20% each year, to malpractice attorneys breathing down your neck, there are increasing obstacles between you and practicing the kind of medicine you want to practice.

The American Medical Association is a spineless organization that has made minimal efforts to fight for tort reform, healthcare reform, or to find ways to assist medical students deal with the staggering debt loads that they find themselves under.

 

[owlegrad]

The American Medical Association is a spineless organization that has made minimal efforts to fight for tort reform, healthcare reform, or to find ways to assist medical students deal with the staggering debt loads that they find themselves under.

This is so funny. All I ever hear about on this forum is how great the AMA is compared to our organization, but that's not the story I see on the medical boards or the one I get from the physicians at our hospital. Very interesting.

 

[PharmD1988]

This is so funny. All I ever hear about on this forum is how great the AMA is compared to our organization, but that's not the story I see on the medical boards or the one I get from the physicians at our hospital. Very interesting.

based on this forum I have heard the same thing about how the AMA is the holy grail. owlegrad can you give some quotes/posts about what the medical boards mention about the AMA?

 

[JonPrePharmD]

I find it funny how people are filled with so much regret. Cry me a river, you babies...it's kinda pathetic. If you hate it so much become a floater and make less money so you can spend more time doing what you love or go back to school.

I know many pharmacists who did it for the money and many who did not. Whether they realize they love it once they're sitting on the beach for 6 days in Cancun (when they only used 2 vacation days), or because they genuinely helped a patient out or practically saved their life, then so be it. Neither are different, both love their jobs for SOME reason even if it's the "wrong" reason.

My point is, work is work, no matter what you do or where you are there is a good and bad side to everything. All the pharmacy students or pharmacists that are quick to say "med school" know exactly what going to med school and being a physician is like, I'm sure.

It's summer for me, so I'm posting because I honestly have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night...but for the professionals who come here and gripe about their job, I feel sorry for you, because the time at which you are negative about your job far exceeds the time at which you spend at your job.

 

[owlegrad]

based on this forum I have heard the same thing about how the AMA is the holy grail. owlegrad can you give some quotes/posts about what the medical boards mention about the AMA?

Search SDN Allopathic for AMA.

Here is the first relevant response I got:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=624232&highlight=AMA

The next five were also negative. I didn't see a positive one. Apparently less than 30% of physicians are even members of the AMA. It is not the mega-group of super physicians hyper-vigilant on protecting their members that the pharmacy forum would have you believe.

 

[owlegrad]

All the pharmacy students or pharmacists that are quick to say "med school" know exactly what going to med school and being a physician is like, I'm sure.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

she is a woman. in all liklihood she probably planned to have some kids and leach off her husband. most women dont plan around career too much but want enough money to have fun with then let the guy pick up the rest.

Yeah, that is why she just graduated from University of Texas McCombs School of Busines with her MBA since her next career step is management. She racked up $90k in student loans to leach off me. Yeah, you win. BS. You don't have a clue. She is a very driven person. To give you and idea of how driven she is, during her first marathon (26.2 miles run). She broke her hip (the pubic bone) at around mile 7. She finished the run not kn0wing it was broken until the x-ray 5 days later revealed a 1/4 separation of the ends of the bone. It is not in my wife's personality to just sit back and relax and mooch off someone.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

VERY insightful! Great posts.

+1

 

[UES Girl]

she is a woman. in all liklihood she probably planned to have some kids and leach off her husband. most women dont plan around career too much but want enough money to have fun with then let the guy pick up the rest.

I am officialy reporting this deep sh@t of a post. What an ******* you are !

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

"Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future."

Man up, people. Man up (or woman up)! If you're not happy with your current situation, change it. Don't think you are unable to act or something is holding you down. Only you can change and improve your life.

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable."

 

[RxMTM]

+1

Thanks for praising my posts.

 

[kvl1027]

Are you me?

Yes, I am me.

 

[kvl1027]

I was surprised to read this, because one of the biggest gripes in the physician residency forums is how LITTLE MDs/DOs are doing to protect their profession.

From nurse practitioners/CRNAs telling us that they can do our jobs better than we can, to the government telling us how much paperwork they think we need to fill out , to (again) the government telling us how little they value care for the most vulnerable members of our society by threatening to slash Medicare reimbursements by over 20% each year, to malpractice attorneys breathing down your neck, there are increasing obstacles between you and practicing the kind of medicine you want to practice.

The American Medical Association is a spineless organization that has made minimal efforts to fight for tort reform, healthcare reform, or to find ways to assist medical students deal with the staggering debt loads that they find themselves under.

I guess it is funny then how we perceive things. It always seemed to me that, that for the most part, physicians stood together on most issues. I think we can certainly agree that while the AMA might be a ****e organization, they have a lot more lobbying power than all of the pharmacy organizations combined.

Maybe we should get together and start a multidisciplinary organization. We can get together a committee and define our roles as healthcare practitioners. Then once those lines are drawn there is no deviation and further ideas are not appreciated. Then we can all work together to promote the practice of healthcare as we see fit. In a perfect world...........

At least I can feel better about our spineless organizations since the AMA sucks as well. Nothing to be jealous over.

 

[PharmaTope]

I guess it is funny then how we perceive things. It always seemed to me that, that for the most part, physicians stood together on most issues. I think we can certainly agree that while the AMA might be a ****e organization, they have a lot more lobbying power than all of the pharmacy organizations combined.

Maybe we should get together and start a multidisciplinary organization. We can get together a committee and define our roles as healthcare practitioners. Then once those lines are drawn there is no deviation and further ideas are not appreciated. Then we can all work together to promote the practice of healthcare as we see fit. In a perfect world...........

At least I can feel better about our spineless organizations since the AMA sucks as well. Nothing to be jealous over.

all of these organizations suck. they are just about collecting dues and generating paychecks for the people working there.

also with regards to tort reform, good luck getting LAWYERS approving TORT REFORM. it will never happen although malpractice is the heart of everything that is wrong in healthcare and has single handedly driven the costs up.

APhA, AMA, etc it is all the same. you go to some conferences, i never seen so many shells of human beings sipping so much kool aid. it is almost disgusting.

 

[PharmaTope]

Yeah, that is why she just graduated from University of Texas McCombs School of Busines with her MBA since her next career step is management. She racked up $90k in student loans to leach off me. Yeah, you win. BS. You don't have a clue. She is a very driven person. To give you and idea of how driven she is, during her first marathon (26.2 miles run). She broke her hip (the pubic bone) at around mile 7. She finished the run not kn0wing it was broken until the x-ray 5 days later revealed a 1/4 separation of the ends of the bone. It is not in my wife's personality to just sit back and relax and mooch off someone.

are you trying to convince me or convince yourself that the reason your lack of sex in your relationship is because she is out being wonder woman? think about it brah

if she is so driven, why did she run the marathon instead of "drive" it

 

[PharmaTope]

I am officialy reporting this deep sh@t of a post. What an ******* you are !

i've had a crush on you for years

 

[owlegrad]

SDN is not the place for personal attacks. Please keep it civil.

 

[smq123]

I guess it is funny then how we perceive things. It always seemed to me that, that for the most part, physicians stood together on most issues.

One of my BIGGEST issues with medicine in the US is the fact that there's so much infighting. Specialists look down on general medicine, PCPs look down on specialists, surgeons look down on IM, IM looks down on surgery, and everyone seems to dislike the emergency department. And all you ever hear as a med student on rotations is, "Oh, you're interested in xxxx? Don't go into that field, because you'll never cure anyone/you'll never be satisfied/you won't make any money/you won't get any sleep/you'll be sued by everyone/everyone will hate you/everyone in that field is a *****/etc."

One of the bigger fights going on now is the question of reimbursement. Specialists tend to do better financially because procedures (i.e. cardiac catheterizations, bronchoscopies, colonoscopies, EGDs) tend to pay well, whereas talking/counseling do not. Now that there is talk of restructuring reimbursements and the insurance system so that patients will have to pay higher copays in order to see a specialist, you see a little bit of that "specialist vs. generalist" debate returning.

Yeah....getting a bunch of doctors to stand together on an issue is like herding a bunch of kittens.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

OP... apparently there are good opportunities for health professionals with IT expertise... whichever you chose I would definitely stick with the IT major.

 

[PharmD1988]

I have talked to some friends working as pharmacists and they said most job openings are in rural areas (ie Central CA, West TX, Northern Minnesota). Is the same for general doctors/specialists looking for full time employment in those areas? or do they have a better chances than pharmacists of landing a job in washington DC, austin, SF, san diego, etc.?

 

[smq123]

I have talked to some friends working as pharmacists and they said most job openings are in rural areas (ie Central CA, West TX, Northern Minnesota). Is the same for general doctors/specialists looking for full time employment in those areas? or do they have a better chances than pharmacists of landing a job in washington DC, austin, SF, san diego, etc.?

This question is pretty general, which makes it hard to give a good answer.

If you're a primary care physician, you will probably be in high demand almost everywhere (rural AND urban) you go. I have gotten notices about job openings in Texas, Virginia/DC, Baltimore, New York, New England, California, Arizona. As a family medicine doctor, you will be able to find a job almost everywhere you look. That being said, yes, there is a MUCH bigger need for doctors of any type in rural settings, so that's probably where most of the jobs are.

Even as a primary care doctor, there is a HUGE benefit to finding a job in rural areas. If you want to work someplace like SF, you can find a job....it may not offer you the types of patients you want to see, the types of procedures you want to do, and it will almost certainly pay much less. The jobs in rural areas paid, from the job ads I have seen, $20K - $50K more. Rural jobs will also probably require more call, and require more hours per week, than a job in a big city or suburb. But you get paid well for it.

If you're a highly specialized neurosurgeon, you may be limited only to big cities that have the hospitals, technology, and manpower that you need. Some specialists in certain fields may find themselves VERY geographically limited.

As for your last question, I don't know. I don't know if a physician has a better chance of finding a job in those highly desirable urban locations than a pharmacist. My gut feeling is to say no - I'm sure that a lot of pharmacists would love to go to those places, but I'm also sure that it's not impossible to find a job there. I don't think that that's a compelling reason to choose MD/DO over PharmD, or vice versa, either.

 

[PharmD1988]

This question is pretty general, which makes it hard to give a good answer.

If you're a primary care physician, you will probably be in high demand almost everywhere (rural AND urban) you go. I have gotten notices about job openings in Texas, Virginia/DC, Baltimore, New York, New England, California, Arizona. As a family medicine doctor, you will be able to find a job almost everywhere you look. That being said, yes, there is a MUCH bigger need for doctors of any type in rural settings, so that's probably where most of the jobs are.

Even as a primary care doctor, there is a HUGE benefit to finding a job in rural areas. If you want to work someplace like SF, you can find a job....it may not offer you the types of patients you want to see, the types of procedures you want to do, and it will almost certainly pay much less. The jobs in rural areas paid, from the job ads I have seen, $20K - $50K more. Rural jobs will also probably require more call, and require more hours per week, than a job in a big city or suburb. But you get paid well for it.

If you're a highly specialized neurosurgeon, you may be limited only to big cities that have the hospitals, technology, and manpower that you need. Some specialists in certain fields may find themselves VERY geographically limited.

As for your last question, I don't know. I don't know if a physician has a better chance of finding a job in those highly desirable urban locations than a pharmacist. My gut feeling is to say no - I'm sure that a lot of pharmacists would love to go to those places, but I'm also sure that it's not impossible to find a job there. I don't think that that's a compelling reason to choose MD/DO over PharmD, or vice versa, either.

sorry for not giving a specific question, I felt it would be too long to mention the chances of a neurosurgeon over a EM regarding the job market, etc, since there are so many intangibles/factors

thanks for bringing up some good points. yeah im going to pharmacy regardless (it would be pretty dumb to choose a profession simply because you cannot be within walking distance of madison square garden).

but these blogs about pharmacy jobs in rural places got me thinking about physician job markets in both metro and rural areas.

thanks for the reply.

 

[gotdrugs]

One of my BIGGEST issues with pharmacy in the US is the fact that there's so much infighting. Specialists look down on staff pharmacists, staff pharmacists look down on specialists, hospital pharmacists look down on retail/community pharmacists, retail/community pharmacists looks down on hospital pharmacists, and everyone seems to dislike their management. And all you ever hear as a pharmacy student on rotations is, "Oh, you're interested in xxxx? Don't go into that field, because you'll never help anyone/you'll never be satisfied/you won't make any money/you won't get any satisfaction/you'll be sued by everyone/everyone will hate you/everyone in that field is a *****/etc."

Funny how changing a few words on a physician's complaint about medicine strikes a *almost* perfect picture on pharmacy infighting.

 

[PharmaTope]

Funny how changing a few words on a physician's complaint about medicine strikes a *almost* perfect picture on pharmacy infighting.

haha that is true!

 

[Thoughtfulsinner]

Do you want to be the one who solves the patients' issues and prescribes the medicine, or the one who just counts it out, slaps a label on a vial, and sells it to the patient?

 

[gotdrugs]

Do you want to be the one who solves the patients' issues and prescribes the medicine, or the one who just counts it out, slaps a label on a vial, and sells it to the patient?

I do neither.....

I don't see your option for what I do......

 

[Thoughtfulsinner]

haha that is true!

I do neither.....

I don't see your option for what I do......

What do you do? Round with Physicians and make recommendations to them/residents/interns? Either way you don't have authority.

 

[owlegrad]

neither

Beat me to it.

 

[gotdrugs]

What do you do? Round with Physicians and make recommendations to them/residents/interns? Either way you don't have authority.

bitter?

If you are good and know your stuff - it becomes much, much more than "just" recommendations.

If you suck, well, then yeah, they aren't going to listen to you. ever.

Oh, and still do much more than what your myopic vision sees. (or doesn't see as is the case)

But have a nice day. Hopefully you can change your career to something you are happy with.