Pharmacy v. Medicine v. Idiots...the Last Word...or Closer to It.

[LSUMED2006]

Ok, this has been beaten into the ground?LOL if I?M getting tired of the debate (and I sure love arguing and usually see no reason to stop just because an issue has been resolved), then I know many people here are sick of it.

Let?s all just take a step back, evaluate this, and move on. Here are some givens. First, both medicine and pharmacy are vastly more difficult than most people realize and neither is usually given as much respect as they truly deserve. There are some pretty stupid pharmacists; there are some pretty stupid physicians. There are some pharmacists who actually do little more than the job of a tech. There are many pharmacists who do much, much, much more than a tech could ever imagine doing. There are pharmacists who do many exciting/challenging/rewarding jobs and don?t just ?mindlessly count pills.? Machines can count, bottle, and label medications. Machines are NOWHERE close to replacing pharmacists, nor will they ever. To say that pharmacists are obsolete/about to be replaced by automatons is silly. Some people DO NOT like to be bothered when they go into a pharmacy and truly would rather a kiosk or solely using mail order pharmacies. These people are not evil. Some people cannot get enough interaction with their pharmacist. Some people approach their pharmacist for advice pertaining to any number of health problems. Some people would never dream of this. Some pharmacists do a great job dispensing advice for these problems (within the scope of their practice, of course). Some pharmacists do a terrible job dispensing advice.

I could go on, but I feel I have made my point. There have been so many either blatantly ridiculous statements such as pharmacists will be replaced by machines or sweeping generalities that become false when applied to all (eg pharmacists do nothing more than the job of a tech or all pharmacists are the final word pertaining to drug knowledge). There has also been a good bit of ignorance on both sides. Many, though not all, of the ?physician? group has very little knowledge of what pharmacists actually know or are trained to do, and the same can be said for the ?pharmacist? group, as many of them have no firsthand knowledge as to what a physician knows/is trained to do. There is also the ?troublemaker/high school student/idiot? group that doesn?t know a whole lot about anything. I guess finally there simply has been a lot of intolerance on both sides. Many in the physician group simply isn't respecting the training of the pharmacist as well as the main point: almost every pharmacist CHOOSES to be a pharmacist because he/she WANTS to do so. Period. Likewise, many of the ?pharmacist? group displays either extreme sensitivity to the ignorance/trolling of others, a greatly inflated sense of the true scope of their practice, or an intolerance to the simple personal choices of others. A prime example of this intolerance was baggywinkle?s post in response to old timer:

"<quote>quote:

Originally posted by oldtimer
Therefore, I would have no problem getting my prescription filled using a kiosk or an online pharmacy, as long as the supplier can guarantee me the quality of the medication. I would find these alternatives more convenient and hopefully cheaper to the traditional pharmacist.
My .02 cents </quote>

Baggy then said:
When your cheap online prescription arrives from Indonesia containing loose unidentified tablets in a baggy pleez don't bother whinging to your local board of pharmacy. Speak with your physician - he'll know what to do.

When your premature infant requires prilosec suspension or your arthritic wife would like some ibuprofen gel to ease her pain and the kiosk won't cough it up on demand - speak with your physician - he'll know what to do.

When your senile parent dumps all his tablets into the same bottle don't bother calling your local pharmacist, if you know where to go online you can sort them out yourself or speak with your physician, he'll know what to do.

When your darling grandchild comes to visit infesting the entire household with creepy crawlies leaving you itching for an answer at three in the morning - pleez don't call me, I'm busy with people who appreciate my services. Go to the ER and ask the physician on duty. His answer will come much faster and be more cost effective than anything I could possibly say.

When you are on vacation and left your heart medication sitting on the table at home - don't come whinging to me that you need a three day supply to get you home. Speak with your physician if you can get him on the phone or go to the ER. I don't think beating on the kiosk will get you very far.

When you are diabetic and caught in a natural disaster, don't come mooching to me for enough insulin and syringes to get you through. Talk to the Kiosc if there is power or head to the ER and wait along with everyone else to speak with the overworked physician.?


Honestly, if oldtimer WANTS to get his meds mailorder or whatever LEGALLY, it is his/her choice. There is no reason to be condescending, rude, and just plain flustered.

I?ve said it before, and I?ll say it again, pharmacy is an amazing career choice. The market is unbelieveably hot, lifestyle wonderful, and career choices endless. That being said BOTH sides have been petty, ignorant, and just plain intolerant to a degree. Hopefully the Physician side can accept that yes, most every pharmacist CHOOSES to be one simply because he/she wants to be a pharmacist, not because he/she can?t get into medical school. Likewise, hopefully the pharmacy group will be OK with the fact that there will always be those who either don?t know what a pharmacist knows, don?t respect them out of ignorance, or simply would rather never deal with a face to face brick and mortar pharmacy building again. EVERYONE should be happy with the career they have chosen, knowing that it is the absolute best career in the world and stop worrying about who knows more, who does more, who is better, who gets more respect, etc.

Yeah
Jason

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Caverject]

Good post Jason. I hope your words soothed this debate over.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
.

A prime example of this intolerance was baggywinkle?s post in response to old timer:

I have never had a problem with inviting an unpleaseable customer to go across the street. You'll find no apology from me

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
I have never had a problem with inviting an unpleaseable customer to go across the street. You'll find no apology from me

This is certainly understandable at times. However, it should be noted that being rude/condescending to the unpleasable customer in return goes nowhere to settle the problem. Your post certainly was not a model of professional behavior towards an irrate, unpleasable customer, nor was it free of sarcasm/condescension. Why not simply say "If you desire to have your meds filled via mail, then that is your choice," rather than stating "don't come whining to me" if you need medical/pharmaceutical help. Pharmacists are generally more trustworthy and well respected than almost ANY profession; your statements certainly would put a sour taste in anyones mouth. Imagine someone who chooses to purchase groceries online to have them delivered to his/her door. Now imagine a tornado knocking out power for a town and not allowing a person to use the internet. Now imagine a customer going to the local grocery store only to have the manager say "don't come whining to me" to shop here, go see the red cross, IF you can find them. C'mon this rudeness on both sides doesn't help things, and I would be furious if any healthcare provider treated me or any of my patients in this manner. A similar attitude is why many people so strongly loath many physicians attitudes. There simply is no place for it in healthcare in particular or the business world in general.

I stand by my original quote:
"Honestly, if oldtimer WANTS to get his meds mailorder or whatever LEGALLY, it is his/her choice. There is no reason to be condescending, rude, and just plain flustered. "

 

[oldtimer]

LSU,

Thank you for trying to inject some civility into this discussion, but I'm a big boy and I can defend myself.

I typically don't read this thread because I'm on the med school path, but because my gf is in pharm school I thought I would do some background reading.

While I may not have pharm credentials, I have the perspective of a customer and a background in business. Perhaps, my views are unique. Or maybe not. I admit that my views are colored by my business experience and I don't profess to be an expert on pharm matters. However, I do know that businesses are always trying to find ways to find cheaper, more efficient ways to boost their bottom lines. Where they can cut costs without sacrificing quality, they will. Or they will take advantage of opportunities to make money.

Anyways, only time will tell which side will be ultimately correct.

 

[GravyRPH]

I didn't really think baggy's response was all that bad. The poster stated his opinion that a pharmacist's job could be replaced by a kiosk, and baggy responded with all the examples where a kiosk would hugely fail at replacing us. I had a reply all typed up to oldtimer but I as well was sick of these ridiculous arguments, so I deleted it. But, I thing baggy's response was well said. I also think your post was very well said as well, up until that last part where you said one person's opinion shouldn't have been responded to by another person's opinion because in your opinion it was insulting. Hrrmph. :/

By the way there are big ATM-like machines in place and functional now that do dispense medications. The doctor zaps the prescription over the internet, you put your credit card in and a vial of amoxicillin spits out. So its not all that crazy of an idea. I guess you just hope the doctor types that prescription in right.

 

[LSUMED2006]

-But, I thing baggy's response was well said. I also think your post was very well said as well, up until that last part where you said one person's opinion shouldn't have been responded to by another person's opinion because in your opinion it was insulting. Hrrmph. :/

I ummm...don't remember where I said exactly that. I DID say that being rude to a rude customer is unprofessional. C'mon if a patient came into your pharmacy and said exactly what oldtimer said and you replied, "Don't come Whining to me" for help if a major problem develops, then I don't think many unbiased peoplewould view that response as professional. In the same manner most people would consider it extremely unprofessional for a physician to tell a patient, who wished to use a chiropracter to treat back pain, not to come whining to him if he broke his arm and needed help. Old timer expressed an opinion, baggywinkle obviously believes old timer is wrong; this is the beauty of america, the ability to have one's own opinions. It is unprofessional to make the remarks given.

-By the way there are big ATM-like machines in place and functional now that do dispense medications. The doctor zaps the prescription over the internet, you put your credit card in and a vial of amoxicillin spits out. So its not all that crazy of an idea. I guess you just hope the doctor types that prescription in right.

I'm familiar with these types of machines, but the day they significantly encroach upon pharmacists livelyhood, rather than simply freeing them to do more work, then I will print out my words and eat them.


Jason

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006


It is unprofessional to make the remarks given.

Jason

One of the nice features of getting older is you have less of a problem with saying it the way it is. It isn't politically correct but life is short and if you are going though life without ever offending anyone than you really aren't living very loud

I have said nothing which violated the TOS so if you are offended take some deep breaths and get over it. We can agree to disagree and it will suit me just fine.

 

[GKK]

Similar criticisms given wrt to the pharmacy profession can also be given to the medical profession. I think a lot of the family physician's job could also be replaced by the internet or physician assistants or nurses, midwifes, etc. Family medicine definitely doesn't have the respect or power it once had either in the eyes of the public or in the eyes of other health professionals. The job can also be pretty boring. You spend a lot of time taking histories, sending for tests or refering patients to other medical specialists who can actually do something for the patient. A lot of your time is also spent filling out paperwork.

Stuff like job prestige, interest, etc. matters only if want to make your job the centre of your life. Personally, this has never been my goal. My free time, travel, sports, etc. is far more important to me than my job. I really don't care if my job could be done by a monkey with a wrench. In fact, the easier the job, the better for me. After a few years, most jobs will become monotonous and boring. Medicine and pharmacy are no exception. What's important for me is to have the finances, free time and stress-free lifestyle so I can engage in activities that I actually do enjoy...travel, hiking, camping, sports, etc.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
One of the nice features of getting older is you have less of a problem with saying it the way it is. It isn't politically correct but life is short and if you are going though life without ever offending anyone than you really aren't living very loud

I have said nothing which violated the TOS so if you are offended take some deep breaths and get over it. We can agree to disagree and it will suit me just fine.

I am the last person in the world to be concerned in almost every case with political correctness; I'm an evil money loving conservative capitalist. I usually can't go an hour, much less a day or lifetime without offending someone. I live my life loud, fast, and spontaneously. Hell, I just bought me a brand new corvette because I liked the way they looked as one zipped past me.

That being said, there is a time and a place for everything. The business setting or healthcare setting or even a setting where you just want a tired argument to die down are places where rudeness, unprofessionalism, and over inflated feelings of self importance aren't needed. If my diabetic grandfather is in urgent need of help, I won't bother you; there are plenty of wonderful pharmacists who epitomize empathy, professionalism, and pharmaceutical care out there who would be glad to help. Don't worry though, when I'm a physician, I will be completely professional to those who don't respect my job, and certainly much professional to these types than you seem to be demonstrating here.


I'm Jason! Yay!!!! go jason

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006


I'm Jason! Yay!!!! go jason

Go Jason go. I like your spirit.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
Go Jason go. I like your spirit.

Now we're talkin!

...it is soooo easy to tell when I have a big test coming up b/c I post repeatedly here.

Just one more thing b/c I want to set the record straight. I thought the cop...was a prostitute.
-homer J

 

[jj99]

While there is no way all pharmacists will be replaced by techs, machines, or Malaysians, we need to find better (and hopefully less boring) uses for our educations than being simple pill dispensers, walking reference books or error checkers - these are things that can be supplemented (note: not replaced) quite well by advanced software, machines or outsourcing. Retail pharmacy is an utter waste of a PharmD and I for one hope to hell I can find something worthwhile (financially and otherwise) to do after drudging away for a few years in some drive-thru scriptburger hell-hole to pay off my loans.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by jj99
While there is no way all pharmacists will be replaced by techs, machines, or Malaysians, we need to find better (and hopefully less boring) uses for our educations than being simple pill dispensers, walking reference books or error checkers - these are things that can be supplemented (note: not replaced) quite well by advanced software, machines or outsourcing. Retail pharmacy is an utter waste of a PharmD and I for one hope to hell I can find something worthwhile (financially and otherwise) to do after drudging away for a few years in some drive-thru scriptburger hell-hole to pay off my loans.

I personally think the future will be in holistic/naturopathic medicine. Recently I have been reading about homeopathy. The people who practice it swear by it and it is radically different from the allopathic model. From the pharmacist's perspective it is still mixing stuff into stuff to make a final product. It is right up our alley and the transition is easy. You don't necessarily need to buy the model to mix the drug.....

Pharmacists have no training in this area. it is like walking on the moon compared to what we have been taught. Yet the roots of classic pharmacy spring from these alternative systems. How many among you have seen an old pharmacy bottle labeled
NUX VOMICA and wondered what the heck it was?

 

[LestatZinnie]

Hell, I just bought me a brand new corvette because I liked the way they looked as one zipped past me.

I'm Jason! Yay!!!! go jason [/B]

Sorry dude...but Corvettes are fugly.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
I personally think the future will be in holistic/naturopathic medicine. Recently I have been reading about homeopathy. The people who practice it swear by it and it is radically different from the allopathic model. From the pharmacist's perspective it is still mixing stuff into stuff to make a final product. It is right up our alley and the transition is easy. You don't necessarily need to buy the model to mix the drug.....

Pharmacists have no training in this area. it is like walking on the moon compared to what we have been taught. Yet the roots of classic pharmacy spring from these alternative systems. How many among you have seen an old pharmacy bottle labeled
NUX VOMICA and wondered what the heck it was?

Wow, it blows my mind reading this. The entire theory behind homeopathy is based on diluting an active ingredient to litterally absolutely undetecable levels and then claiming the "dosage form" has some therapeutic property despite the fact that it may contain only a SINGLE MOLECULE of the actualy drug.

To quote quackwatch:"If the original substance is soluble, one part is diluted with either nine or ninety-nine parts of distilled water and/or alcohol and shaken vigorously (succussed); if insoluble, it is finely ground and pulverized in similar proportions with powdered lactose (milk sugar). One part of the diluted medicine is then further diluted, and the process is repeated until the desired concentration is reached. Dilutions of 1 to 10 are designated by the Roman numeral X (1X = 1/10, 3X = 1/1,000, 6X = 1/1,000,000). Similarly, dilutions of 1 to 100 are designated by the Roman numeral C (1C = 1/100, 3C = 1/1,000,000, and so on). Most remedies today range from 6X to 30X, but products of 30C or more are marketed.

A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth!"

There are a couple of fairly prominent, advertised, homeopathic remedies such as Similasan "the only over the counter ear drops designed to treat ear pain." Infact, i've even seen some pharmacy workers reccommend it to worried parents or frantic inner ear pain sufferers looking for a rememdy to treat an earache until they can see or can't afford to see the doctor. Let's just have a look about similasan: Active Ingredients: (Homeopathic): Chamomilla HPUS 10X, Mercurius Solubilis HPUS 15X, Sulphur HPUS 12X.

Wow, 12x Sulphur HPUS that must be super concentrated! Nay I say unto thee my friends, remember we are talking homeopathy (right on the lable). That means that the sulphur has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000. Thats right the sulphur in this $10 product for 10ml of solution has been diluted 1 TRILLION times, and the mercury (seems odd for a homeopathic preparation) has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000 or 1 quadrillion times. Even the lovely chamomilla has been dilluted a billion times. Wow Since we know how homeopathic products are formulated, it would be easy to sit down and come up with a fairly accurate estimation of the number of active ingredient molecules in these eardrops and find how incredibly, immeasureably small this number is. <one guy to another...yippeee....my homeopathist screwed up and left 10 molecules of asprin in this headache juice...I mean normally there are only 5; it's like I'm getting the extra strength formulation>

I could go on and choosen any number of products, but I picked this one because it is routinely advertised on TV and positions itself as the lone OTC rememdy for earaches. If a consumer/healthcare provider doesn't look very carefully at the ad or packaging, or is simply unaware that 15x (homeopathic) does NOT mean it is 15x concentrated, then it is extremely easy to recommend or use this product without being fully aware of what it truly does(not) contain.

I am not dismissing all alternative therapy, as some can be quite effective. There is an accupunture program in the pain management clinic at LSUHSC that shows positive results. Some people do report great improvements from chiropracters, many of these improvements are placebo, though many are not. I DO have a problem with chiropracters spouting nonsense about treating the flu, ear infections, cancer, and everything else with spinal adjustments to correct some nonsense about a subluxation that cannot be defined in scientific terms or even agreed upon or diagnosed similarly by two chiropractioners, or homeopaths selling a product that is NOTHING other than wather in the name of it being a 30x dilution and the water being sold has "been in contact with" a single MOLECULE of ____ and therefore has some magic properties.

PS since you mention nux vomica, I'm sure you know you can buy it today, often as small tablets. I would warn everyone that it is POISON!!! NOOOO IT CONTAINS STRYCHNINE, but it is a 30c dilution and therefore contains nothin; thats right Nux vomica is a 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Dilution!!!!! I think that sums up my post and speaks for itself.

Go Jason Go


Here are some scientific studies/articles worth looking at:
--From Quackwatch: Very informative article and a great first read: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

--From the National Council against healthcare fraud: This article explains the theory and origin behind homeopathy as well as its dubious clains and outright "incorrectnesses (my word)": http://otpt.ups.edu/Medicine/Homeopathy-Fraud.html OR at http://www.ncahf.org/pp/homeop.html

--From the FDA, articles explaining the coplete lack of standardization amoung homeopaths: http://www.fda.gov/fdac/departs/1997/397_form.html and http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/096_home.html


--Acta Vet Scand. 2003;44(1-2):97-101.
No effect of a homeopathic preparation on neonatal calf diarrhoea in a randomised double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial.
--Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2003 Nov;56(5):562-8.
Ultramolecular homeopathy has no observable clinical effects. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled proving trial of Belladonna 30C.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by LestatZinnie
Sorry dude...but Corvettes are fugly.

Everything is beautiful in its own way...or something like that. I mean, I did buy a yellow one and have fuzzy pink dice in the rearview mirror; it has its own subtle ridiculousness. Different strokes for different folks.

I also like your name and have enjoyed some of Rice's stuff...unless of course your name has some other crazy meaning that is beyond me, which wouldn't be that hard to do...lol.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
Wow, it blows my mind reading this. The entire theory behind homeopathy is based on diluting an active ingredient to litterally absolutely undetecable levels and then claiming the "dosage form" has some therapeutic property despite the fact that it may contain only a SINGLE MOLECULE of the actualy drug.

Like I said it really rubs an allopath's fur the wrong way. I am also unsure that much has been done in the way of research since Hanneman - directly in homeopathy that is.

There are physicians (MD) out there who are doing it.
http://www.helioshealthcenter.com/practice/therapy/homeo.htm

and there is a body of bleeding edge research out there unrelated to medicine which may support the homeopath's assertion of potency (less is more)

looking for the link....other matters take priority at the moment
Here it is. Original research by Masaru Emoto on the effect of prayer on water.
TOTALLY different stuff.
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/aug1/consciouswater.html

Personally I am puzzled by the concept of succussion

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
Wow, it blows my mind reading this. The entire theory behind homeopathy is based on diluting an active ingredient to litterally absolutely undetecable levels and then claiming the "dosage form" has some therapeutic property despite the fact that it may contain only a SINGLE MOLECULE of the actualy drug.

Like I said it really rubs an allopath's fur the wrong way. I am also unsure that much has been done in the way of research since Hanneman directly in homeopathy that is.

There are physicians (MD) out there who are doing it.
http://www.helioshealthcenter.com/practice/therapy/homeo.htm

and there is a body of bleeding edge research out there unrelated to medicine which may support the homeopath's assertion of potency (less is more)

looking for the link....other matters take priority at the moment

It has nothing to do with rubbing allopaths the wrong way, it rubs many people the wrong way. As for MDs doing it, that doesn't make it right or even matter. It's like saying some DO's manipulate the spine to cure an infection or cancer. BUT since you gave a link, I checked it out and found the good MD stating: "Dr. Brunschwig uses only 200C and above. For this reason, high-dilution remedies are very safe and only need to be taken infrequently." Once again, I want to state very very strongly how utterly insane this is and not only flies in the face of allopathic care as well as pharmaceutical , it flies in the face of any form of scientific scruiting or logical thought. Remember a 1C dilution is a 1/100 dilution (or 1/(100^1) or 1/(10^2) dilution)and a 3C dilution is a 1/1,000,000 dilution (or 1/(100^3) or 1/((10^2)^3) or 1/(10^6) dilution). That means that a 200C dilution is a 1/gogolplox^2 dilution( or 1/(100^200) or 1/((10^2)^200) or 1/(10^400) dilution. This is not a made up number. [note: a googol is 10^100 (or 1 with a hundred zeros after it) and a gogolpox is a gogol squared or (10^100)^2 (or 1 with a gogol zeroes after it).

It is estimated there are 10^79 (or 1 with 79 zeros after it) ELECTRONS, NEUTRONS, and ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE. Reread that. homeopaths take the number of electrons in the universe MULTIPLY IT BY ITSELF FIVE TIMES and make a dilution where the amount of product is only 1/(#of electons in the universe) of what it initially was.

Remember that there are about 6x10^23 molecules/mol.
Ok, let's take a homeopath who has 20 grams of a compound with a MW of 20. That means in the 20 grams he starts with he has 6x10^23 molecules. Suppose he performs even a 15C (1/(10^30)) dilution. That leaves us with....wait a sec...it averages out to LESS THAN ONE MOLECULE PER DOSE (eg there is NO ACTIVE INGREDIENT THERE!!!!!!!)

Many homeopaths, even one listed by yourself, perform 200C or MORE dilutions. Wow. I know that I, and I'm sure most, can't comprehend the number of electrons in the universe, yet you are trying to tell me that a "system" of alternative medicien that dilutes a product so that the final product is as if the starting amount was divided in half a number of times greater than the number of electrons in the universe isn't fraudulant and bogus but rather "bleeding edge". If you believe this, I have a molecule of a bridge to sale you.

"Dr. Brunschwig uses only 200C and above. For this reason, high-dilution remedies are very safe and only need to be taken infrequently."
Translation: Many of Dr. B.'s products contain no active ingredients, zero, none, not one molecule. Because there is nothing in his remedies they are very same and don't need to be taken often.

This is not an allopath thing. Homeopathy flies in the face of science, period. To say that a product has a medical, therapeutic effects, when the product contains only a million of a billionth of a mg of active ingredient, is fraudulant, deceptive, and anything but "cutting edge." I hate seeing underserved patients come into wallmart or rite aid or where ever late at night and purchase a remedy (containing immeasurable or no active ingredient) they can barely afford with money they work incredibly hard to earn. Selling medication that is supposed to treat ______ condition, only to find the manufacturer lied and never actually included active ingredient, is illegal and unethical. However, slap homeopathic on the label, and you can sell anything...(say nux vomica) designed to treat most anything (take your pic) and not even have to worry about including active ingredient.


Lol...homeopathy...the magic of one molecule among a trillion trillion trillion million billion other non active molecules giving magical therapeutic properties to an overpriced and almost completely non regulated product.


Yeah,
Go Jason Go

A story if you will:
Patient to homeopathic pharmacist: Why does this water cost $10 for an ounce?
Homeop. pharmacist: It's not water,its a preparation prescribed by your doctor and is one of most effective pain releivers and anti emetic on the market
P: WoW! what's in it?
HP: Oxycodone and Zofran
P: Cool, how much of each are in there.
HP: Zofran 30C and Oxycodone 100C- we had to decrease the oxy dose so you dont overdo it
P How much in milligrams is that
HP: well...we don't express this in milligrams...it's more complicated...we do it in molecules present.
P: So...how many molecules of each or present?
Hp: Well...1...
p: 1?
hp: Honestly, there may be 0. Truth be told, the chances of there being 1 molecule are worse than the chances of you winning the powerball jackpot while getting struck by lightening while dieing from a beesting after being bitten by a shark.
P: Sounds like water to me...I mean there is nothing in there except water, certainly no medication
Homeopathic PHarmacist: _______(choose eithe the how dare you not respect me i'm gonna be rude ending or the you idiot ending or the I can't beljeve I'm reading this ending or your own ending)

 

[loo]

Jeez Jason... enough already! Please stop beating people over the head. I wouldn't want such an arrogant, "I need to be right all the time" doctor to preside over my healthcare!

Give it a rest.

 

[Samoa]

Arrogance is definitely a good thing in homeopathic doses. personally, I can't dispense it in doses that small.

 

[lilmk]

Originally posted by loo
I wouldn't want such an arrogant, "I need to be right all the time" doctor to preside over my healthcare!

hmmm, funny. that's exactly the kind of doctor i want. ('cept for the arrogant part but i don't think you're arrogant, lsumed--you're coo )

 

[Samoa]

I with ya there. I want my doctor to be right all the time. Except when he disagrees with me.

 

[Oneday_9]

I thought Jason's argument a little lengthy but very true...
he's def very passionate about it all!~

 

[baggywrinkle]

I was reading the label on the homeopathic cold product ZiCam.
It is just zinc. Anyone seen data on how well it works compared
to say Cold Ease? My patients who have used it liked it well enough to use it again.

I have also found the "official" homeopathy site for the United States. These folks are serious. Sorry Jason, they don't believe in you either. Perhaps they are similar to the seventh day adventists attitude toward healing and medicine.

http://www.homeopathy.org/american.htm

I'm on the fence and would like to take a peek inside their world.
Don't forget, they maintain their own official compendium which is sanctioned by FDA

http://www.homeopathic.com/articles/intro/hpus.php

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
I was reading the label on the homeopathic cold product ZiCam.
It is just zinc. Anyone seen data on how well it works compared
to say Cold Ease? My patients who have used it liked it well enough to use it again.

I have also found the "official" homeopathy site for the United States. These folks are serious. Sorry Jason, they don't believe in you either. Perhaps they are similar to the seventh day adventists attitude toward healing and medicine.

If the actuall amounts of zinc in zicam is the same as other zinc preps, then one would expect them to work comparably. However, if the dosage of zinc in zicam is vastly less than other zinc preps, then I feel many consumers are being grossly mislead. Who of them would want to buy "THe ultimate headache killer" or whatnot only to find that it contained .0001 mgs of ibuprofen? A patient saying that a medicine made their cold go away faster isn't exactly a meaningful sample. I would bet most patients would say that antibiotics make their viral infections go away much, much faster...

Whether or not the homoeopaths "believe" in me doesn't matter. I do think the fact they don't "believe" in allopathic medicine is telling. I actually wrote all I did because litterally the night before I was in rite aid and some guy came in and was frantic about finding something for his daughter for her earache. I looked like a bum at the time and didn't want to step on toes, so I said nothing. Unfortunately, the poor guy left with something that would do her no good.

I still get a kick out of the MD's website you provided. Maybe his practice of selling "medicines" without active ingredients is a way to circumvent the law...b/c w/o that homeopathic lable, the man gets mad at such things.

I remember a pharmacist not too terribly long ago who was dispensing chemo meds in "homeopathic" doses. Problem was he was a busy pharmacy owner and forgot to mention to his patients that the meds were in homeopathic doses. The man made him pay a lot of money, and I think he went to jail.

I still don't understand how anyone believes a product that contains no active ingredients actually has an effect outside of the placebo realm. That being said, sugar pills actually have a better chance of having an active ingredient than some of the homeopathic "medicines" out there.

Jason