Physics Dilemma!

[sintheta]

Ok, first and foremost: I am NOT a math person. Nor am I a physics person. Just to get that out of the way...hehe

My dilemma is whether or not I should take calc-based or non-calc based physics next year. I know calc up to an AP Calc BC level and am comfortable using derivatives and integrating, but multivariable stuff = not cool.

Which physics will be more useful for me for the MCAT and for med school? Another thing is that if I do decide to take calc-based physics, I have to take calc concurrently, which seriously limits my scheduling options for next yr.

My friends say that taking non-calc based physics is "wussing out." But I genuinely don't like physics and I wouldn't take it if it weren't required. But at the same time, will non-calc based physics bore me to death and not challenge me?

Thanks so much for your advice!

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[flighterdoc]

Ok, first and foremost: I am NOT a math person. Nor am I a physics person. Just to get that out of the way...hehe

My dilemma is whether or not I should take calc-based or non-calc based physics next year. I know calc up to an AP Calc BC level and am comfortable using derivatives and integrating, but multivariable stuff = not cool.

Which physics will be more useful for me for the MCAT and for med school? Another thing is that if I do decide to take calc-based physics, I have to take calc concurrently, which seriously limits my scheduling options for next yr.

My friends say that taking non-calc based physics is "wussing out." But I genuinely don't like physics and I wouldn't take it if it weren't required. But at the same time, will non-calc based physics bore me to death and not challenge me?

Thanks so much for your advice!

Some medical schools (a few) require calc-based physics, and calc. If you're willing to forgo those schools, take the non-calc. It doesn't matter much, anyway - you're going to be a doctor, not an engineer.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever unless you want to take advanced physics classes.

The physics on the MCAT is not only algebra-based, but generally the most basic stuff, at that.

I took algebra-based, I had never had physics before, and it turns out I loved it. I wish I would've taken the calc based, since then I could take elective physics courses. Didn't expect to have THAT problem!

 

[sintheta]

Some medical schools (a few) require calc-based physics, and calc. If you're willing to forgo those schools, take the non-calc. It doesn't matter much, anyway - you're going to be a doctor, not an engineer.

Ah, excellent. Just to be safe, what schools are these? I will be taking another semester of calc eventually, I just don't want to do it concurrently with physics...

 

[Syranope2]

non-calc! non-calc!! i took the easy physics in college because i hated physics and calculus as well. it's the perfect level for you to understand everything you need for the mcat without killing yourself over the material. and i got into top 10 med schools, so it clearly didn't hurt me there. i rationalized it by telling myself that i was taking hard, advanced classes in biochem, which i loved and was my major, and that i deserved a break in the stuff i didn't love. g'luck

ps - do take calc later, though, cuz a lot if not most schools require it.

 

[flighterdoc]

Ah, excellent. Just to be safe, what schools are these? I will be taking another semester of calc eventually, I just don't want to do it concurrently with physics...

Oh, a relatively few - the requirements for the schools are in the MRSA, or the school websites. I don't have a list.

 

[skiz knot]

I was in a similar boat as the OP. I was familiar with math (AP BC calc in H.S.) and wanted to take the calc based physics in college. My advisor (dumb ass) suggested that I should take the non-calc based physics for a pre-health professions curriculum. I hated it and did poorly in phys 1 because it seemed like a stupid way to (re)learn physics when I already knew how to do a lot of the problems the calc way. I wouldn't receive any credit on tests unless I showed work doing it the non calc way... UGHHH!

My suggestion is if you feel that you can swing the calc based physics then go for it. It might be easier for you. If you could handle AP BC it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[sintheta]

hmm...I see what you're saying. I did take some calc-based physics in high school, but I hear that the calc-based phys at my univ is really hard.

 

[terpgirl]

Yeah. I'm taking the non-calc based. I'm good at math, I really am. I sit there in the supermarket and figure out which brand is cheapest per ounce, all in my head. Yes I may be nuts.

At UMCP, the calc based is SUPER HARD. You don't take it unless you absolutely have to. And since I don't have to, I'm not taking it. I'd rather take something slightly less challenging, where I walk away happy and not stressed for a semester.

Plus, phys I calc based isn't offered in the summer (when I'm taking phys I). So that kinda factored into my decision slightly.

-Liz

 

[GBFKicks]

I was in a similar boat as the OP. I was familiar with math (AP BC calc in H.S.) and wanted to take the calc based physics in college. My advisor (dumb ass) suggested that I should take the non-calc based physics for a pre-health professions curriculum. I hated it and did poorly in phys 1 because it seemed like a stupid way to (re)learn physics when I already knew how to do a lot of the problems the calc way. I wouldn't receive any credit on tests unless I showed work doing it the non calc way... UGHHH!

My suggestion is if you feel that you can swing the calc based physics then go for it. It might be easier for you. If you could handle AP BC it shouldn't be a problem.

I agree--I would take calc based physics without thinking about it twice. Non-calc based physics is so much more tedious. Physics and calc go hand at hand and I don't think that non-calc based physics is any easier (maybe even harder because it's more tedious?).

 

[ManchotPi]

I agree--I would take calc based physics without thinking about it twice. Non-calc based physics is so much more tedious. Physics and calc go hand at hand and I don't think that non-calc based physics is any easier (maybe even harder because it's more tedious?).

 

[angstrom55]

I'm really good at math and calc but took the sissy way out and took non calc physics A lot of the bio majors at my school took the "sissy physics". Didn't really matter for the mcat. I'm not a physics person and never really cared for it so I was okay morally to take the sissy physics. Unless you plan on doing something in the future that will require you to know calc based physics (ie biomechanics or something) I'd say you don't need it.

 

[Conquistador]

As a physics major, it's hard to understand what you mean by algebra-based physics. What do you do in there? I'm guessing you just memorize equations, not derivations, plug numbers and rearrange stuff. I strongly encourage you to take calc-based physics, it's really not that hard, much easier than physics explained with analytical and differential geometry. Actually, Isaac Newton's book The Principia, has everything spelled out in terms of analytical geometry, really genius stuff, he later developed calculus to be able to explain his findings to average people, go figure. I don't think you'll appreciate physics unless you take the real one. Plus, you'll never know how your radio, your t.v., your alarm clock, etc., etc., etc., works.

 

[sintheta]

As a physics major, it's hard to understand what you mean by algebra-based physics. What do you do in there? I'm guessing you just memorize equations, not derivations, plug numbers and rearrange stuff. I strongly encourage you to take calc-based physics, it's really not that hard, much easier than physics explained with analytical and differential geometry. Actually, Isaac Newton's book The Principia, has everything spelled out in terms of analytical geometry, really genius stuff, he later developed calculus to be able to explain his findings to average people, go figure. I don't think you'll appreciate physics unless you take the real one. Plus, you'll never know how your radio, your t.v., your alarm clock, etc., etc., etc., works.

But I already took calc-based physics in high school...why suffer through it all again? I agree that deriving equations is great (I hate memorizing). But I didn't do well in it in high school, what if I fail again?

 

[crazytrain]

But I already took calc-based physics in high school...why suffer through it all again? I agree that deriving equations is great (I hate memorizing). But I didn't do well in it in high school, what if I fail again?

You haven't even taken your first exam yet, and you have already lost all hope? Take the calculus based Physics for the betterhood of knowledge

 

[principessa]

I took calc-based physics and it was not bad at all. At my university, at least, people who took non-calc-based physics had more trouble - the professor was bad, attendance at recitation was mandatory, and they didn't understand physics. I had a decent, fair professor, and I didn't have to go to recitation (I found it didn't help me that much), and I understood the concepts pretty well. Plus I remembered everything for the MCAT because it made sense to me. If you're okay with memorizing random formulas and don't really care about understanding physics, it's okay to take non-calc-based. If you understand calculus (even at a very basic level), and think it will help you learn physics, go ahead and take calc-based.

 

[dron000]

to the op,
you definitely sound like you should take the non-calc based physics, because you've already decided that you dont like math,etc. Calc based physics is interesting to take if you have an interest in it! I for example dont plan to take further physics courses, but i am taking many more math courses... Also, in calc based physics they dont use much calculus, but on the other hand it is harder than any calculus class because you have so much new material! For example they definitely use calculus in the topics such as continuous charge distribution for electric fields. This topic was at the beginning of the semester, and the teacher took a lot of time explaining how to integrate(which is easy if you're good at math). But the problem is that then we rushed through material such as kirchhoff laws(which does not involve any calculus and in your non-calc class the teacher could spend more time on it or have given you more problem sets on it) and we didnt even finish all of magnetism.. In all, for example the first chapter on electricity in the textbook has point charges and continuous distribution. So in the noncalc class you would only do the first part, which is much lesser than the 2nd, even if you do know the math. So the benefit, is that if you dont study as much physics, you have more time to study for your biology or chemistry or whatever.
and if you already decided that you have no interest in taking more math or physics after this, then calculus is absolutely useless.

 

[logos]

I'd just like to add that you should carefully consider major requirements and the like in making this decision. I took the sissy physics (well half so far), which is what most people here who arent engineering or physical sciences majors do here. Now I wish I had taken the calc based. I am currently a micro major and have found through my courses that I far prefer biochemistry to micro and would choose that as a major if I could. However, I only have taken only 2 of the 4 or 5 required calc classes and none of the required calc based physics. I could go back and take all of it to change majors...but its just not worth all of that time....and relearning the calc I did know... So i'm pretty much stuck with micro (which is ok...and I can get a biochem minor without the math/physics).

Anyway...just look at what requirements different areas you might be interested in if you think there is any chance you might change...

Plus...from my experience with the algebra based physics...you dont learn anything...they give you an equation...you plug and chug....no understanding required...

 

[sintheta]

Well, from what you all are saying, algebra-based physics is plug&chug, which is what I want to avoid. I'd rather have a hard time in calc-based than be bored out of my mind in alg/trig based. Btw, my major doesn't care which physics. A question for the calc-based phy people: for the MCAT, are the problems such that you can use calc, or do you have to "revert" to alg/trig based? Is your level of understanding "too high" for the MCATs? Do you find yourself doing problems "the long way" anyways? Sorry if my questions seem dumb, I don't know much about the MCAT yet!

 

[liverotcod]

A question for the calc-based phy people: for the MCAT, are the problems such that you can use calc, or do you have to "revert" to alg/trig based? Is your level of understanding "too high" for the MCATs? Do you find yourself doing problems "the long way" anyways?

I have read comments that people made problems harder than they needed to be on the MCAT by bringing too much knowledge to the table. Really, all you need to know is relationships and principles for the MCAT, and then be able to apply them in unfamiliar ways. You should know, for example, the relationship force = mass * acceleration. And how force varies with distance for gravitational and electrical forces. Etcetera. So whether you've memorized a formula or derived it, the key is that you know the relationship and recognize where it applies.

 

[BubbleBobble]

At my school, calc-based physics covers (in one year):
- motion and kinematics
- electricity and magnetism
- wave physics

However, non-calc-based physics covers (in one year):
- motion and kinematics
- electricity and magnetism
- (basic) wave physics
- basic thermodynamics
- basic fluid dynamics

So here, it's better to take non-calc-based physics for medical school preparation, since the calc-based material does not adequately prepare you for the MCAT. You'd have to learn it on your own.

 

[skiz knot]

Well, from what you all are saying, algebra-based physics is plug&chug, which is what I want to avoid. I'd rather have a hard time in calc-based than be bored out of my mind in alg/trig based. Btw, my major doesn't care which physics. A question for the calc-based phy people: for the MCAT, are the problems such that you can use calc, or do you have to "revert" to alg/trig based? Is your level of understanding "too high" for the MCATs? Do you find yourself doing problems "the long way" anyways? Sorry if my questions seem dumb, I don't know much about the MCAT yet!

You are probably gonna be bored either way

U will not need to know calc for the mcat. The problems can almost always be solved by knowing the relationship between values given in the prob, i.e, if it is a direct relationship, inverse, inverse square, etc...

I found it was helpful for me on the physics section of the mcat to look at the units the answer was given in. If I could remember the units of a type of question than often I could find the answer without doing any calculation because only one or two answers had the correct units. Also, if I could determine the correct units I could take the numerical units given to me in the problem and cross multiply them in a way that would give me the same units as the correct answer, as well as the correct numerical answer...

sorry for the rambling. I hope this makes sense.

 

[liverotcod]

At my school, calc-based physics covers (in one year):
- motion and kinematics
- electricity and magnetism
- wave physics

However, non-calc-based physics covers (in one year):
- motion and kinematics
- electricity and magnetism
- (basic) wave physics
- basic thermodynamics
- basic fluid dynamics

So here, it's better to take non-calc-based physics for medical school preparation, since the calc-based material does not adequately prepare you for the MCAT. You'd have to learn it on your own.

That's a really good point. I took calc-based, and did have to study quite a few topics on my own. There were a couple problems on my form of the April MCAT on pressure in a vessel that threw me a lot more than they should have, because we didn't cover fluid dynamics in class.

 

[Conquistador]

Well, from what you all are saying, algebra-based physics is plug&chug, which is what I want to avoid. I'd rather have a hard time in calc-based than be bored out of my mind in alg/trig based. Btw, my major doesn't care which physics. A question for the calc-based phy people: for the MCAT, are the problems such that you can use calc, or do you have to "revert" to alg/trig based? Is your level of understanding "too high" for the MCATs? Do you find yourself doing problems "the long way" anyways? Sorry if my questions seem dumb, I don't know much about the MCAT yet!

I did really well on the MCAT physical sciences section and it was mainly because the MCAT physics becomes clear as water if you really concern yourself with understanding physics through calculus. I don't know who told you that applying calculus to physics is "the long way", this is not true. By the way, when I took the MCAT I still hadn't taken any upper level physics, just the year of general physics, this probably prevented me from thinking too hard about the problems i.e., adding friction, drag, lift to ideal situations or something. It's not that you don't use algebra and trig, actually you still need these all the time, it's that you really understand where equations come from and will be able to think about these in context, not just as symbols to rearrange.