Please be brutally honest with my chances (transfer/low GPA/reallylong read)

[change4med]

Hi everyone, thank you in advance for any insight you might be able to shed on my situation (I tried to post in right spot; my first time posting, please move it if it was posted incorrectly.. I'm sorry). It is a lot to read, but I promise to not sugar coat or make excuses at all to make me seem like a better applicant, I really just want some honest opinions of where to direct my life, and if you think it's still worth pursuing attending admittance to a DO school.

I spent 2 years at a community college, and transferred to a UC where I finished my degree after 3 years this past June. I'm a California citizen, and Asian American. I don't mind moving out/working out of state to attend med school.

My community college grades were (3.74 non-science GPA/3.23sGPA/3.57oGPA). I took my gen chem/english/math pre reqs here.

When I transferred out, I was a horrible student that felt that with a curve I didn't have to try hard. It was a big transition being in large lecture halls compared to my previous small class sizes, and I hit a wall of mediocrity to the adjustment and had a year of about a 3.0 gpa. My 4th year, I took about 20 units a quarter to try to do well and show I can handle the workload. I ended up feeling depressed and completely spent when my grades continued to dip, and while dealing with a SO's depression (I had her well being a higher priority than my grades, she was clinically depressed and at times suicidal) it just got worse and worse and I ended that year horribly (2.76 22.5units, 2.37 20units, 2.35 17units). I asked advice about where to proceed to try to make up my GPA at a post-Bacc or continue for a 5th year, and was told by some fellow students to try a 5th year (since I was already enrolled and it'd be easier for me to get into classes than signing up for a postbac/masters (since I doubt I would have had), I should have talked to a counselor).

It just clicked for me the summer before/during my 5th year that this was the last chance I could possibly have to redeem myself again, so I did decent my 5th year and the summer prior (3.41 during 19 units in summer, 3.48 21units, 3.42 21units, 3.75 21units). But I didn't realize that my 4th and 5th year would show that it was a combined senior year (I thought they would see the trend yearly) and so it might not seem show as an upward trend, but rather an overall decline.

I've inputted my grades into the AACOMAS and got 3.5 non science/ 3.14 science/ 3.20 cumulative for my 3 years at the UC. I've retaken most of the classes I had done bad in originally (I still have a C in Ochem II and III (retook from a D), and Physics III). Overall with both my community college grades combined I have a 3.64/3.15sGPA/3.31 oGPA.

The thing I'm most worried about, is that I have about 30 units of research at my UC that accounts for A's; so in actuality, my GPA would look much worse w/o it? I don't know how they were interpret that grade as a true science, it was at the medical school under upper division biological sciences, but again it was the only constant A I had so it may have been obvious it was just raising my GPA.

EC/Miscellaneous:
I wasn't active in a lot of clubs, I would occasionally help out at a club that would help feed the homeless at skid row, but I never really ran for officer positions or made a huge individual impact. If you had to put an hour on it, I'd say roughly 25 hours.

I volunteered at a hospital for a year during community college, for about 200 hours, and I had stopped after I transferred and moved away from home. During my time at the university I didn't participate in anymore clinical volunteering, with my grades dropping and work.

Research: I loved the research I was doing for 2 years there (I'd say 600 hours easily? At least 100/quarter if not more, not including my 20 hours a week working post graduation), it deals with onco-imaging and they gave me a paid position to continue to help there after I graduated. During my 5th year, I got an award for excellence in research, published in my uni's undergrad research journal (doubt it counts as a real publication), presented some talks, been published in 2 abstracts, and have been in the process of getting published in a journal (though that's still in the air).

Volunteer interning as a scribe for a plastic surgeon: I will have been doing it for about a year by the time I graduate. So at least 100 hours? I really enjoy it.

I've also won 2 scholarships (1 bio based, 1 academic) during my time in community college, though I feel those aren't as big as a deal especially since I did horrible right after transferring out. I enjoyed intramural sports. EMT certified, no license.

I worked 1.5 years at a fast food place during my time at Uni to help pay for my expenses, and a year on campus, about 15 hours a week. I honestly felt that when I quit my job my 5th year, that my grades went up noticeably, but I'm not sure if I should mention that in my apps. I know I should have set my priorities straight and focused on my grades, but at the time I didn't want to burden my parents with any of my expenses.

I'd say I've taken 16 units of science courses (90% upper divs) a quarter for my last 3 years, including summers, and so any post-bacc wouldn't really raise my grade significantly. I've always wanted to do something like Peace Corp, but to be honest, my parents aren't in good health and I don't want to regret anything happening if I was gone for the time commitment volunteering (I know it's a selfish reason, but I have a close friend whose parent passed while she was doing something similar, and she never got to say goodbye, and it's made me apprehensive)

I scored a 27 and 29 on my Kaplan Diagnostic, and a 27 on an old AAMC, (these were all done before I've began reviewing for my MCAT, I'm hoping that after this summer reviewing I'll score at least a 28). So assuming I score a 28 (Though I'm aiming much higher), would you say I had a chance somewhere?

I know I made mistakes, and I think I've been living in denial for a while now (I still had hopes of attending an allopathic school until I recalculated my AAMC grades and got a 3.14/2.98sGPA w/my retakes and research). I know I'm not that dumb, but I made some really dumb stupid choices. I'd really appreciate any advice/clarification or steps to go from here.

TLDR;
1) Would my CC grades be looked down upon/not matter as much?
2) Would my UC GPA be scrutinized due to the GPA bump I got for research? Would it look bad? (I calculated my UC GPA without research, it would be a 3.018 without any research)
3) Are there any colleges you'd recommend me applying to next year/What can I do?

I'll do my best to find a DO shadowing opportunity after my MCAT Sept, and I think I will have at least 2 solid LOR's from the research and scribing. I'm hoping the DO will be the 3rd. I know I'm lacking in community volunteering as well, but I'm not really sure where/when (would a half year commitment seem non-genuine? I really care about the homeless and lower income population, it's just difficult to find programs that would care to write about me etc/vouch for what I'm doing (not that i want it to seem that's the reason I would volunteer there in the first place)).

Thank you so much for reading this block of text, once again, I'm sorry if this was posted in the wrong spot, I've been stressing about this the last couple of weeks so I decided to finally just type it all up. Any advice/criticism will be appreciated, God bless!

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[AlteredScale]

TLDR;
1) Would my CC grades be looked down upon/not matter as much?
2) Would my UC GPA be scrutinized due to the GPA bump I got for research? Would it look bad? (I calculated my UC GPA without research, it would be a 3.018 without any research)
3) Are there any colleges you'd recommend me applying to next year/What can I do?

1) Doubt it unless there is a big disparity between grades within your sciences. In your case, it might be but you always get a shot to explain what happened

2) You should register for the AACOMAS for this year (nothing bad will happen if you register but don't apply) gand message support and ask them if they count research grades into your GPA. Were there exams at the end of each research term? Or was it just academic credit for each course? Again I think many committees are looking for excellence in formal basic science course (immuno, virology, micro, physio) as a determinant of how you will perform during pre clinical years and board exams. It may be good, it may not, either way you have to roll with it since you must include all course work.

3) MCAT wise and per the words of wisdom from AdCom members here on SDN, if you get a 27/28+ you're eligible for all DO programs. 26+ all DO programs except TouroCA and CCOM, 22+ is scraping the bottom of hte barrel and with your prior tribulations I think that means a retake. <21 is a def retake/consider podiatry which isn't a bad gig either/time for a plan B.

Everyone has bumps in the road through their undergrad career. You overcame it and that's the most important thing. Good job!

 

[UTUT]

Your GPA is on the low side, but still in consideration range for lower DO schools. CC grades are not as valued as undergrad grades. But at least you tried to show you can master those topics by retaking. Rock the MCAT and put your best foot forward, I think you'll get in somewhere, esp with so many new DO schools opening

 

[Promethean]

Careful if you ask for brutal honesty on SDN, you run the risk of just getting brutality. Less so over on the DO side of things, but still, there are people who will make it sound like you have no hope.

Your application doesn't sound as bad as you make it out to be. Even with a little dip in grades at one point, your GPAs came out okay. No, not great, but certainly in a range that would get you into a good DO program if your MCAT were acceptable.

Taking the MCAT in September is kinda late for this year. If you are dead set on this year, go ahead and get your application ASAP! Every day you wait at this point begins to really impact your chances to get verified before the end of August/beginning of Sept. Sooner is better, especially if you don't have the strongest application. Your MCAT score won't be available until October, which is going to mean that schools won't be offering you interviews until they see it. October/November interviews aren't a deal breaker, but if it were me, I would sit out this cycle and prepare for a strong application next June.

In the AACOMAS app, you have the opportunity to explain each of your EC's. Don't have the attitude that "well, I haven't done very much." Give yourself credit for everything that you did and I promise you will sound like a well rounded applicant. You have some volunteering, a lot more research than me and many other DO applicants, and some club membership. You don't have to have been the president of every single club you've participated in.

Meanwhile, whether you apply this cycle or not, do you still live near a good, cheap community college? Do a do it yourself post bacc. Enroll for Fall 2014 in the cheapest community college you can access. Take online courses if they are available, or schedule evening/weekend courses if possible. Take things which you will get A's in. Math and Science that interests you. Even if you are working full time at something clinical (which you should also endeavor to do!), 12-16 credits of junior college level online course material per term is extremely doable, and it will keep you in the habit of studying. I have been doing this in order to do my pre-reqs and have turned it into an extra Associates degree with very little actual effort.

Last year, I was you. I was going to be applying late in the year with a less than stellar application. I held off. I registered with AACOMAS, filled in as much of the application as possible, and researched schools. I took a late year MCAT got a good score, and then studied like a fiend all winter so that I retested in April and got a great score. I had all my schools send transcripts to AACOMAS in early May, submitted my app in the first week of June, and now I am sitting pretty. That extra year gave me time to address all the weaknesses in my app, so that now that I am applying, I am not applying to 10 schools... just the 2 or 3 that I really want. It was also nice to have a full year to collect LORs, and storing them in Interfolio is incredibly convenient.

I think you have a chance this year. If you can afford the expense and anxiety of applying to several schools this year, go for it. But still be doing things to make your application even better for next year, just in case you have to reapply. There is a degree of stigma associated with reapplication, which you have to overcome by being significantly better than you were the first time.

 

[UTsksk]

I'll tell you what my advisor told me. No idea how much validity there is to it, but he said for an upward trend, it's best to show a strong 4 semesters together.

I'm not sure how difficult it was at your school, but at mine, the research classes were an easy A. You didn't really need to do much. Just show up, help with the project, and not screw anything up.

 

[change4med]

Thank you so much for the input so far guys.

@emagavin- Thank you for the encouragement! When I get a shot to explain it do you know if it'd be part of my application or would it be if I got an interview and they asked me the question? I've been inputting my grades into the AACOMAS, I didn't know I could ask them questions about that, so thank you for letting me know. There was a 3hour/week time commitment per unit of research I'd take, but there was no real test at the end of the quarter, just based on quality of work in lab and attendance. I've actually taken all 4 of those classes and done a bit below average... (B- in immuno, micro, and physio, A- in viro). I know it seems bad, but this was to put it all into perspective. I did well in neuro/functional neuroanatomy/brain disorders upper divs though (B+/A-'s) so hopefully that would be something they note? I found immuno and physio interesting, but they were indeed more difficult. Tbh, I'd want a doctor that did well in all of those courses, so I understand what you mean by them looking more closely at those. When you say 28+ is eligible, do you mean competitive/i have a good chance, or is it more of a at the minimum they expect a 28 to apply? Thank you for your words of encouragement, I really wish my bumps weren't so poorly timed, but you were really helpful! Most of luck to your future endeavors as well.

 

[YeastyMan]

I have a couple of thoughts about this
1) I have friends who do research in the UC system. All of them said their research counts as a 4 unit upper division course with pass/ no pass. So you want to double make sure that your research actually carry over as an A on the transcript.
2) If you're taking the test this September, you might as well apply next cycle and spend the gap shadow doctors, retake your classes, etc.
3) You still need 2 science professors to write your LOR. So you need to get on that...
4) Just looking at everything I have mentioned, it looks like you have a lot to do. Maybe a bit more than you could chew. It wouldn't be a bad idea looking into podiatry. (So start shadowing podiatry doctors)

Out of curiosity, do you know what you're going to tell the interviewers when they asked you why your grades dipped? And how you're going to prevent that from happening in medical school?

 

[change4med]

Your GPA is on the low side, but still in consideration range for lower DO schools. CC grades are not as valued as undergrad grades. But at least you tried to show you can master those topics by retaking. Rock the MCAT and put your best foot forward, I think you'll get in somewhere, esp with so many new DO schools opening

Thanks for your input, I heard about CC grades not being as valued, which was why I'm trying to gauge what my GPA would "realistically" be like without them. Hopefully I do get in somewhere, the majority of doctors I've shadowed seemed to truly enjoy what they're doing, and it makes me really want to pursue it as well, so hopefully there'll be somewhere for me.

 

[change4med]

@Promethean

Thanks for your advice! And yeah, I know some people on SDN can be brutal, but I think I really need a wakeup call/slap to the face if it's warranted. I plan on applying next June, I'm sorry if it was worded ambiguously. I was hoping to find a DO to shadow and some volunteer opportunities before I do in June just to see the difference. I know the general difference behind osteopathic medicine and allopathic, but I really want to see what they actually are in practice.

It's always been difficult to kind of "sell" myself as an applicant, I know everyone does it, but I just feel a bit awkward because it feels like I'm bragging about myself, but I will take that into consideration and do my best to express that without sounding too arrogant hopefully.

My biggest question to you would be about taking post-baccs actually. I know you're not adcom, but what I was trying to figure out is that would the grades I get at a local CC be looked down upon? I'm nervous that if I get an A for example, they'll just say it's from a CC, whereas if I get a B they'll believe that I couldn't even get an A at a CC if you know what I mean. Of course I would aim for getting A's, and I'm all for taking more classes, I'm sure I want to stay occupied before I apply (I will be continuing to work in my research lab, but it's only 20 hours a week), but I've heard the GPA isn't factored in the same because it's post graduation. Would you know anything about that? Congrats on the Associates

I think it's in my best interest to continue to hold off actually applying until next June. I don't want to be labeled a reapplicant, but they probably will still ask me what I've done during my time graduated right? I hope to be in your position in the future where I can decide which schools I want to attend rather than broadly applying and praying for a best chance.

Congrats on your MCAT score and thank you so much for taking the time to read and give me advice, I'll really look into taking additional classes at a CC, and trying to gauge if there's a stigma in taking courses there. Worst case scenario would be I get an associates right? It shouldn't hurt actually.

 

[Promethean]

You will hear rumors about most everything. Some schools might sniff at CC grades. Others are more realistic and recognize that not everyone can afford to spend their whole undergrad at a university. CC saves people 20k per year in tuition.

As for people recommending podiatry... sure, if you love feet, like a lot. There is no reason to talk yourself out of options. Aim for what you want, and do what it takes to get there. You don't have to retake courses unless you got less than a B in them. Retakes of B grades makes you seem like a gunner. You don't even have to retake them if you got a C, unless there is really nothing better you can do with your time. Just Ds and Fs really need to be redone. Getting a B in a rigorous university immunology class is nothing to sneeze at. (Ha!)

EDIT: Regarding post-bacc... sure if you have money to burn, take extra uni courses. But if, as for most people, finances are a concern, there is no reason not to take extra classes at a CC. What you are going for is improving your numbers. Schools care about how their applicants are perceived based on stats. They want applicants to have the highest possible GPAs and MCAT scores because it makes the school look better. So, if you can add a block of 20-30 credits of solid 4.0 to your academic record through post-baccing at a CC between now and next cycle, no adcom is going to be like, well, he has a 3.5+ GPA, but meh, he should have done those classes at Yale not CC. They are just going to see that you have an otherwise reasonable application and that your numbers are not going to make them look bad.

 

[change4med]

@UTsksk

Do you know if the 2 summer sessions would hypothetically count as a "quarter"? I would have my last 3 quarters+the summer before as a sort of upward trend from what my 4th year was like. I just wish that bad year was my freshman year, it's seriously the worst to crash that senior year.

And yes, my research was kind of like that, where I just showed up and didn't mess up anything/contributed the best I could and got an A for it, which is why I'm wondering if that grade would be looked down upon during my application?

I see you're a med student! Congrats, and hopefully you're doing well. Thanks for taking the time to read it and to give me your two cents, it's really appreciated

 

[AlteredScale]

Thank you so much for the input so far guys.

@emagavin- Thank you for the encouragement! When I get a shot to explain it do you know if it'd be part of my application or would it be if I got an interview and they asked me the question? I've been inputting my grades into the AACOMAS, I didn't know I could ask them questions about that, so thank you for letting me know. There was a 3hour/week time commitment per unit of research I'd take, but there was no real test at the end of the quarter, just based on quality of work in lab and attendance. I've actually taken all 4 of those classes and done a bit below average... (B- in immuno, micro, and physio, A- in viro). I know it seems bad, but this was to put it all into perspective. I did well in neuro/functional neuroanatomy/brain disorders upper divs though (B+/A-'s) so hopefully that would be something they note? I found immuno and physio interesting, but they were indeed more difficult. Tbh, I'd want a doctor that did well in all of those courses, so I understand what you mean by them looking more closely at those. When you say 28+ is eligible, do you mean competitive/i have a good chance, or is it more of a at the minimum they expect a 28 to apply? Thank you for your words of encouragement, I really wish my bumps weren't so poorly timed, but you were really helpful! Most of luck to your future endeavors as well.

Some schools will let you explain it via secondary, others might wait for you to explain it via ii.
It sounds like you've performed very well in your courses already and had trouble with the pre req classes like orgo. You've redeemed yourself from my point of view.

The suggestions of which programs to apply to are coming from faculty through the SDN page so I wouldn't know the exact interpretation. From my knowledge I am assuming that they are excluding certain schools as your MCAT drops because these faculty may know that these schools pre screen. So essentially they are saving you hundreds of dollars to apply to a school that will just simply ask for your secondary even though they know they will reject you.

Glad to help! I am also Asian American and come from a UC school and am also a transfer student from a CC so I feel your pain when it comes to struggling through courses!

 

[Promethean]

I hear you. It is hard to learn to sell yourself when you have been raised to be modest and humble. I learned growing up that crowing about your accomplishments was rude behavior done by people who had something to prove. It took reframing that a little before I could do it effectively.

I realized that, in the professional world, everyone is always preening in public. The medical schools want to look good to applicants. Hospitals want to look good to patients and regulators. So, students and doctors end up having to learn to market themselves as well. It isn't bad behavior in this setting to be proud of what you have done and to show yourself in the best light... rather, that is the game that everyone in your industry is playing as well, and you have to do it to be competitive.

So, you first have to learn to value the things you have done, and not judge yourself harshly by using other people's standards. Remember that since everyone is straining to stand out, the standards start to inflate to unrealistic proportions quickly. Worry about your own personal virtues, not about how you stack up to the best around. You aren't trying to be the best that there is... you are trying to be the best you that you can be, and that will be good enough if you can manage to pull it off.

Then, learn to speak plainly about what you have done. You won't come off as arrogant if you just tell the truth, without apology or embellishment. Don't harp on how you did a little but could have done more. Don't try to make doing a little sound like saving the world. Just be simple and say, I did this. I accomplished this. Find things that you are proud of and let your pride shine through when you talk about them. If there aren't things about you that make you proud to have done them, find some and do them.

In the process of trying to be the very best medical school applicant, don't forget to be you. Think about what you care about, what you are passionate about, and put some effort into that. Adcoms will much more respect and remember the person who comes to them with an interesting story that makes them seem like an individual, instead of just another applicant trying to impress them.

 

[change4med]

I have a couple of thoughts about this
1) I have friends who do research in the UC system. All of them said their research counts as a 4 unit upper division course with pass/ no pass. So you want to double make sure that your research actually carry over as an A on the transcript.
2) If you're taking the test this September, you might as well apply next cycle and spend the gap shadow doctors, retake your classes, etc.
3) You still need 2 science professors to write your LOR. So you need to get on that...
4) Just looking at everything I have mentioned, it looks like you have a lot to do. Maybe a bit more than you could chew. It wouldn't be a bad idea looking into podiatry. (So start shadowing podiatry doctors)

Out of curiosity, do you know what you're going to tell the interviewers when they asked you why your grades dipped? And how you're going to prevent that from happening in medical school?

1) My research was A-F scale graded, and you could decide between 1-5 units to take a quarter and were graded on quality of work and attendance? I know other researches had different ways of grading i.e. presentations, tests etc. On my transcript the majority was an A, and when I first started I had gotten 2 units of B, and they all altered my overall/UC GPA on my transcript, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't pass/no pass, but I will ask about that, thank you for clarifying. I know a friend who goes to another UC who does her research pass/np for 4 units actually, so I understand where you're getting that from. I'll need to clarify that.

2) Yeah I intend on applying next June, I know it'll be a bit rushed if I apply this year, and I haven't shadowed any DO's at all.

3) I was wondering about that, if my research doctor, and the doctor I scribe for are both professors at the UC that attended, would it qualify as science professors? I never took an official class under the doctor I'm scribing for, and my research professor only taught at the med school, so while they are technically science professors at the university do you mean that I'd have to find another 2 that I actually had to take tests for etc. I was hoping these two would qualify since they knew me a lot more and would be able to write a more personal LOR, but I will search for other professors to write me one if that's not the case.

4)I'll look into that, at worst it'll be a learning experience. I have no experience in podiatry at all.

5) If they asked me why my grades dipped, do you think it'd be a viable answer if I was honest and straightforward? I didn't commit myself immediately after transferring, I was unfamiliar with environment, and complacent and happy just to get out of a community college. I dated a friend who had clinical depression and I had prioritized her well being over my grades. At my lowest point at the end of that 4th year, I realized that you couldn't necessarily save/help everyone you wanted to, and that you had to prioritize your own well being first, especially if you were to become a health care professional. And then from then I've began to be more hesitant towards my approach in supporting people when I didn't feel confident I could. It's hopefully not going to be a problem during medical school, because I've made up my mind that I won't worry about everyone else's problems/relationships/financial problem or have it affect my work until after medical school no matter the circumstances and though that may seem drastic. The only exception would be the health of my immediate family, and hopefully they'd understand that's something that shouldn't be compromised, if it occurred during medical school I probably would ask for a leave of absence. But anything else, I'd prioritize success in medical school first.

I know that might not be the perfect answer, that they might nitpick my "resolve" in maintaining that mindset, which is why I'd appreciate your advice/input on how I can persuade them that I'm serious or maybe if I should try to change it to something less forward? I don't want to necessarily lie, I prefer being straightforward, but I can see that seeming like an immature answer as well. How do you think medical schools would respond to that answer? I want to be prepared. Thank you so much again for taking the time in helping me, I hope you're personally doing well.

 

[change4med]

@Promethean

Thank you again! I've been overthinking and forgot to realize they'd probably ultimately look at my GPA as an overall kind of thing? I always thought they'd scan it first and they scrutinize the separate years/courses with more emphasis on those, but it does make sense regardless to raise my overall academic record. And yes, post-baccs are extremely expensive with no guarantee which is why as much as I'd love to be in one, it's not really a viable option and I'm trying to apply straight for DO next year.

To be honest, I'm still not 100% sure what I want. I've enjoyed everything I've had the opportunity of volunteer/shadowing for, and they've all told me that in medical school I'll find the one that clicks. And I don't have any D's or F's remaining, but there are a good amount of C's I'll look into fixing. And I''ll look into some online CC college courses now to see what's available and hopefully try to raise my grades. Hopefully adcom will understand. Thanks again so much!

Edit:
And I will take that in mind, I'll do my best to just be honest/straightforward then. I wasn't sure how viable a strategy it'd be on the applications, but like you said, I should just try to express being proud of the things I have a passion for, and be honest about the things I did.

I know I'd be able to make a good impression if I could get an interview, I just think the most difficult part is getting into that interview. But again thank you for all the advice, I'll definitely keep those inputs in mind during my year off. Overall I feel my chances now are still on the low side, but I have this year to do as much as I can and hopefully it'll all work out trying to do my own best. And if it wasn't meant to be it just wasn't meant to be, but hoping for the best!

 

[Promethean]

Almost all of my LORs are from medical school faculty members. They don't count as science professor LORs, for the purposes of schools that insist on having those, except the one whose class I actually took in undergrad. So, now I am chasing a couple of LORs from CC faculty. Every letter doesn't have to be equally strong, as long as they all paint a good picture of you.

You really seem to be very much where I was last cycle. Let me tell you that you are going to feel so much more prepared come next June. Just make sure you have everything in by early/mid May, so that when you hit submit on that first day in June, you get verified right away. Waiting until later in the week bought me several weeks of wait before my app was verified.

 

[UTsksk]

@UTsksk

Do you know if the 2 summer sessions would hypothetically count as a "quarter"? I would have my last 3 quarters+the summer before as a sort of upward trend from what my 4th year was like. I just wish that bad year was my freshman year, it's seriously the worst to crash that senior year.

And yes, my research was kind of like that, where I just showed up and didn't mess up anything/contributed the best I could and got an A for it, which is why I'm wondering if that grade would be looked down upon during my application?

I see you're a med student! Congrats, and hopefully you're doing well. Thanks for taking the time to read it and to give me your two cents, it's really appreciated

I looked it up and it seems like 2 semesters equals to 3 quarters and 2 summer sessions equals 1 quarter summer session. I could be wrong about it though. All I can really tell you about an upward trend is that it's up to you to decide when you think you've done enough.

It took me 5 semesters to not feel anxious looking at my gpa. After that though, I still didn't feel competitive for my home state so I did a 1 year masters to further prove myself. So in the end, it comes down to you feeling comfortable with the work you've put in and if you believe it's enough to sway an adcom.

As far as your research credits, it'll be up to you to explain if they were an easy A or you worked hard for it. If they ask about the courses, I would explain it in a way that shows you worked hard.

 

[Goro]

Apply broadly and I think you'll be OK

 

[Xenoblade]

Imho, u good at a lot of do programs. Seen some awful candidates get in before.

Try western uni

 

[jsmith522]

Hi everyone, thank you in advance for any insight you might be able to shed on my situation (I tried to post in right spot; my first time posting, please move it if it was posted incorrectly.. I'm sorry). It is a lot to read, but I promise to not sugar coat or make excuses at all to make me seem like a better applicant, I really just want some honest opinions of where to direct my life, and if you think it's still worth pursuing attending admittance to a DO school.

I spent 2 years at a community college, and transferred to a UC where I finished my degree after 3 years this past June. I'm a California citizen, and Asian American. I don't mind moving out/working out of state to attend med school.

My community college grades were (3.74 non-science GPA/3.23sGPA/3.57oGPA). I took my gen chem/english/math pre reqs here.

When I transferred out, I was a horrible student that felt that with a curve I didn't have to try hard. It was a big transition being in large lecture halls compared to my previous small class sizes, and I hit a wall of mediocrity to the adjustment and had a year of about a 3.0 gpa. My 4th year, I took about 20 units a quarter to try to do well and show I can handle the workload. I ended up feeling depressed and completely spent when my grades continued to dip, and while dealing with a SO's depression (I had her well being a higher priority than my grades, she was clinically depressed and at times suicidal) it just got worse and worse and I ended that year horribly (2.76 22.5units, 2.37 20units, 2.35 17units). I asked advice about where to proceed to try to make up my GPA at a post-Bacc or continue for a 5th year, and was told by some fellow students to try a 5th year (since I was already enrolled and it'd be easier for me to get into classes than signing up for a postbac/masters (since I doubt I would have had), I should have talked to a counselor).

It just clicked for me the summer before/during my 5th year that this was the last chance I could possibly have to redeem myself again, so I did decent my 5th year and the summer prior (3.41 during 19 units in summer, 3.48 21units, 3.42 21units, 3.75 21units). But I didn't realize that my 4th and 5th year would show that it was a combined senior year (I thought they would see the trend yearly) and so it might not seem show as an upward trend, but rather an overall decline.

I've inputted my grades into the AACOMAS and got 3.5 non science/ 3.14 science/ 3.20 cumulative for my 3 years at the UC. I've retaken most of the classes I had done bad in originally (I still have a C in Ochem II and III (retook from a D), and Physics III). Overall with both my community college grades combined I have a 3.64/3.15sGPA/3.31 oGPA.

The thing I'm most worried about, is that I have about 30 units of research at my UC that accounts for A's; so in actuality, my GPA would look much worse w/o it? I don't know how they were interpret that grade as a true science, it was at the medical school under upper division biological sciences, but again it was the only constant A I had so it may have been obvious it was just raising my GPA.

EC/Miscellaneous:
I wasn't active in a lot of clubs, I would occasionally help out at a club that would help feed the homeless at skid row, but I never really ran for officer positions or made a huge individual impact. If you had to put an hour on it, I'd say roughly 25 hours.

I volunteered at a hospital for a year during community college, for about 200 hours, and I had stopped after I transferred and moved away from home. During my time at the university I didn't participate in anymore clinical volunteering, with my grades dropping and work.

Research: I loved the research I was doing for 2 years there (I'd say 600 hours easily? At least 100/quarter if not more, not including my 20 hours a week working post graduation), it deals with onco-imaging and they gave me a paid position to continue to help there after I graduated. During my 5th year, I got an award for excellence in research, published in my uni's undergrad research journal (doubt it counts as a real publication), presented some talks, been published in 2 abstracts, and have been in the process of getting published in a journal (though that's still in the air).

Volunteer interning as a scribe for a plastic surgeon: I will have been doing it for about a year by the time I graduate. So at least 100 hours? I really enjoy it.

I've also won 2 scholarships (1 bio based, 1 academic) during my time in community college, though I feel those aren't as big as a deal especially since I did horrible right after transferring out. I enjoyed intramural sports. EMT certified, no license.

I worked 1.5 years at a fast food place during my time at Uni to help pay for my expenses, and a year on campus, about 15 hours a week. I honestly felt that when I quit my job my 5th year, that my grades went up noticeably, but I'm not sure if I should mention that in my apps. I know I should have set my priorities straight and focused on my grades, but at the time I didn't want to burden my parents with any of my expenses.

I'd say I've taken 16 units of science courses (90% upper divs) a quarter for my last 3 years, including summers, and so any post-bacc wouldn't really raise my grade significantly. I've always wanted to do something like Peace Corp, but to be honest, my parents aren't in good health and I don't want to regret anything happening if I was gone for the time commitment volunteering (I know it's a selfish reason, but I have a close friend whose parent passed while she was doing something similar, and she never got to say goodbye, and it's made me apprehensive)

I scored a 27 and 29 on my Kaplan Diagnostic, and a 27 on an old AAMC, (these were all done before I've began reviewing for my MCAT, I'm hoping that after this summer reviewing I'll score at least a 28). So assuming I score a 28 (Though I'm aiming much higher), would you say I had a chance somewhere?

I know I made mistakes, and I think I've been living in denial for a while now (I still had hopes of attending an allopathic school until I recalculated my AAMC grades and got a 3.14/2.98sGPA w/my retakes and research). I know I'm not that dumb, but I made some really dumb stupid choices. I'd really appreciate any advice/clarification or steps to go from here.

TLDR;
1) Would my CC grades be looked down upon/not matter as much?
2) Would my UC GPA be scrutinized due to the GPA bump I got for research? Would it look bad? (I calculated my UC GPA without research, it would be a 3.018 without any research)
3) Are there any colleges you'd recommend me applying to next year/What can I do?

I'll do my best to find a DO shadowing opportunity after my MCAT Sept, and I think I will have at least 2 solid LOR's from the research and scribing. I'm hoping the DO will be the 3rd. I know I'm lacking in community volunteering as well, but I'm not really sure where/when (would a half year commitment seem non-genuine? I really care about the homeless and lower income population, it's just difficult to find programs that would care to write about me etc/vouch for what I'm doing (not that i want it to seem that's the reason I would volunteer there in the first place)).

Thank you so much for reading this block of text, once again, I'm sorry if this was posted in the wrong spot, I've been stressing about this the last couple of weeks so I decided to finally just type it all up. Any advice/criticism will be appreciated, God bless!

So my .02 is go for it. I too had bad grades, even failed out of school in the 90s. I went back got two degrees in five years and and grad certificate. All you need to do is explain the discrepancies in your GPA. For me (sGPA 3.2, cGPA3.4 and MCAT 27, was enough to get me lots of secondaries and interviews. I was accepted but deferred to try and go to my #1 school after meeting with the admissions department after I got denied and finding out of some dumb mistakes I had made on my application and in my interview. That said, don't be afraid of trying, the worse they say is no thanks. You can also always apply (dare I say here) to an overseas school. I would go for the Atlantic Bridge programs before a Caribbean program but then again that is my opinion.

 

[change4med]

Apply broadly and I think you'll be OK

Sorry for the bump @Goro (or anyone else seeing this, @Promethean ), but I was wondering if you could give me any advice on which schools to remove from this list. Also by being competitive, does that mean I have a pretty good shot at getting into the school or simply that I won't be screened out? I'm doing my best to get a DO to shadow, especially one that utilizes OMM, but I've been cold calling with not much luck).

Quick summary again:
3.31c/3.15sGPA/3.64non-science (Decent first 2 years, mediocre 3rd year, bad 4th year, decent 5th year)
Asian American, CA resident
30 MCAT- 11PS/9VR/10BS (A little bit disappointed, but don't plan on retaking)

1200 hours research- 4 abstract pubs, 1 ugrad journal pub
200 hours hospital volunteering (ER, DOU, GI)
80 hours ENT scribing
2 MD LoR's, 1 average Public Health Prof LoR (Assuming it's a generic "this student got an A in my class")
~100 Tutoring homeless kids
Recently started private tutoring for money that I donate back to the homeless kid tutoring program (It helps me stay active in studying, and I feel like it's a good cause)

Touro-CA
Western
AZCOM
PCOM
TCOM (I wasn't sure about this one since I know they don't really take OOS as much, but the lower cost of tuition is such a huge factor I wasn't sure if I should try to apply anyways)
UNECOM
NSU-COM
RVU-COM
Touro-NY

I know it's not as broad as maybe it should be, but I've been trying to see which schools I'd like to attend as a start. Could I have your recommendation on what I should leave off the list (due to IS bias, low stats, etc- I tried to research that myself but I might've been wrong) or what to add onto it?

I've just been working on my personal statement and I've been having difficulties with that as well. I feel that my EC's makes it seem like I'm all over the place and I'm not sure if that'll be a red flag... I intended to do a bunch of different things to see what I'd like to do, and move on from one to the other, but everything I've done I just find it too interesting to stop. Should I start narrowing down on what I want to do (Find Internal Med/Emergency Med type of shadowing, Low Income Clinic volunteering) or would I be okay to just continue doing the ECs that I'm currently doing and not mention it?

Wishing you a happy holiday, I'm sorry to bug you around this time, feel free to take your time in responding!

 

[Promethean]

I don't think that it is a red flag to have varied interests. If you were talking about having done 10 hours at each of a dozen activities, that would be different, and might look like you were trying to check boxes. As it is, persisting in activities that you are genuinely interested in makes you seem sincere. Not a bad thing.

As for applying broadly, that list comprises about 25% of the DO schools available. That isn't an unreasonably large or small number. Especially since you specify that you selected for schools that you would actually like to attend. UNECOM has a strong regional bias. They want people who will stay in the area to practice. You could get in there if you have a burning passion to put down roots in New England, but otherwise it might be a long shot. It is a very interesting school, though. It made it to my short list.

I'm a big fan of LECOM, and since you mentioned cost of attendance as a consideration, you may want to consider that school. If you come to Erie, we might cross paths!

I'm no adcom, but your app looks interesting to me. I wouldn't expect you to get screened out. If you put it all together with a strong PS and a DO letter, I think you are going to get interview invitations. From there, just comport yourself as a normal person with some degree of interpersonal communication skills and you will be golden.

As for getting that DO letter... cold calling offices is brave. Good for you. Don't limit yourself to folks who are in private practice/outpatient. There are lots of DOs in anesthesia, emergency medicine, etc. Check out the websites for various departments at your local academic medical center. Look through the faculty pages and find the DOs. I'd bet that folks who are already working in teaching hospitals will be more receptive to student shadowing. Even if you didn't get to see much/any OMT, just demonstrating enthusiasm for medicine and a sincere interest in osteopathic schools should be enough to get you a strong letter of recommendation once you find a receptive physician to shadow.

 

[Goro]

The sGPA is a tad on the low side, but I think that you'll get plenty of II. I would swap in some more schools, and omit TCOM and if you don't live in New England, UNECOM. Suggest MUCOM, VCOM, DMU and AT Still for starters.

Sorry for the bump @Goro (or anyone else seeing this, @Promethean ), but I was wondering if you could give me any advice on which schools to remove from this list. Also by being competitive, does that mean I have a pretty good shot at getting into the school or simply that I won't be screened out? I'm doing my best to get a DO to shadow, especially one that utilizes OMM, but I've been cold calling with not much luck).

Quick summary again:
3.31c/3.15sGPA/3.64non-science (Decent first 2 years, mediocre 3rd year, bad 4th year, decent 5th year)
Asian American, CA resident
30 MCAT- 11PS/9VR/10BS (A little bit disappointed, but don't plan on retaking)

1200 hours research- 4 abstract pubs, 1 ugrad journal pub
200 hours hospital volunteering (ER, DOU, GI)
80 hours ENT scribing
2 MD LoR's, 1 average Public Health Prof LoR (Assuming it's a generic "this student got an A in my class")
~100 Tutoring homeless kids
Recently started private tutoring for money that I donate back to the homeless kid tutoring program (It helps me stay active in studying, and I feel like it's a good cause)

Touro-CA
Western
AZCOM
PCOM
TCOM (I wasn't sure about this one since I know they don't really take OOS as much, but the lower cost of tuition is such a huge factor I wasn't sure if I should try to apply anyways)
UNECOM
NSU-COM
RVU-COM
Touro-NY

I know it's not as broad as maybe it should be, but I've been trying to see which schools I'd like to attend as a start. Could I have your recommendation on what I should leave off the list (due to IS bias, low stats, etc- I tried to research that myself but I might've been wrong) or what to add onto it?

I've just been working on my personal statement and I've been having difficulties with that as well. I feel that my EC's makes it seem like I'm all over the place and I'm not sure if that'll be a red flag... I intended to do a bunch of different things to see what I'd like to do, and move on from one to the other, but everything I've done I just find it too interesting to stop. Should I start narrowing down on what I want to do (Find Internal Med/Emergency Med type of shadowing, Low Income Clinic volunteering) or would I be okay to just continue doing the ECs that I'm currently doing and not mention it?

Wishing you a happy holiday, I'm sorry to bug you around this time, feel free to take your time in responding!

 

[CalBear456]

Bump!


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[de Ribas]

Bump!


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why?

 

[DrLightning]

Hi!
I'm also a CC transfer from CA that got into med school this cycle. PM me.